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Claude Puel… Again

Turkish

By Turkish
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Tonda comes across as a bit boring and on the face of it doesn't seem very inspiring. No one will give the smallest shit about any of that if he keeps being successful. Managers can achieve success in different ways. 

I seem to remember us having a successful manager and lots of people cared he was boring 

  • Like 2
whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

And the Wembley cup final after beating Liverpool home and away. 

YAWN 

I remember 5 of us all fell asleep at the Emirates in the Quarter final too when we beat Arsenal. 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

8th in the premier league was really boring, as was the European campaign.

Boring.

Qualification for that European Campaign had nothing to do with him.

And yes, that 8th was really boring too.

Edited by Whitey Grandad
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Qualifforvthat European Campaign had nothing to do with him.

And yes, that 8th was really boring too.

Talking of boring and repetitive.

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Define 'successful'

One of only 6 major cup finals in our history 

only finished higher 9 times in our history 

for a club like us that’s a successful season

  • Like 3
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
31 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

And the Wembley cup final after beating Liverpool home and away. 

YAWN 

I left Anfield after that Shane long winner so underwhelmed 

  • Haha 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Don't blame me. I'm not the one who sleeps under a Claude Puel bedspread. 

No but just showing a bit of appreciation for a very good season especially as the hand he was dealt player wise 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

One of only 6 major cup finals in our history 

only finished higher 9 times in our history 

for a club like us that’s a successful season

Remind me again how many points we got. I'm fairly certain that we've had more points a lot more that in out history. 

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Turkish said:

No but just showing a bit of appreciation for a very good season especially as the hand he was dealt player wise 

It wasn't all that good. And don't get me started on the way he treated Fonte in our European campaign. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Remind me again how many points we got. I'm fairly certain that we've had more points a lot more that in out history. 

So what?

Roo1976

Roo1976

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Because his football was boring 

but we got results...................and you cant compare squads like for like because we had a better setup IMO.

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

To sum up Puel, he wasn’t sacked for finishing 8th, getting to a cup final, doing boring interviews or any other strawman argument. He was sacked because of the direction he was taking us and the downturn in results, particularly at home.

Fonte didn’t play in Europe because he was 33 and never going to play three games in a week.

  • Like 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

To sum up Puel, he wasn’t sacked for finishing 8th, getting to a cup final, doing boring interviews or any other strawman argument. He was sacked because of the direction he was taking us and the downturn in results, particularly at home.

Fonte didn’t play in Europe because he was 33 and never going to play three games in a week.

I don't see why he couldn't. Did he play in any European games?

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Points are a reflection of results. 

We got the eighth best set of results that season.

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Neither of those is true.

So when a team finishes top are they not the best team that season?

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We are not talking about a team that finished top.

You said that it isn’t true that the table doesn’t lie. So is the team that finishes top the best that season? 

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Turkish said:

You said that it isn’t true that the table doesn’t lie. So is the team that finishes top the best that season? 

That's a non sequitur. 

A table is only a list of figures and has no opinion.  It is only when someone tries to make an inference from those figures that they can come to misleading conclusions. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That's a non sequitur. 

A table is only a list of figures and has no opinion.  It is only when someone tries to make an inference from those figures that they can come to misleading conclusions. 

 Is it misleading to say that the team that finishes first were the best team in the league that year? 

In 2024/25 season we finished bottom with 12 points, it's it misleading to use that to reach the conclusion that we were the worst team?

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

Call me old fashioned but if SR could deliver a manager who could provide beating Liverpool in the semis, more than matching Manchester United in a cup final and finishing 8th in the EPL I would bite their hands off.

Dan Johnson

Dan Johnson

Posted
Posted

Context is important, I think.

Stats wise, Puel was one of our better managers, however in the Context of following Koeman, Poch and Adkins, who most would probably have in the top 5/6 of Saints managers over the last 20 years, Puel was a tough pill to swallow.

Being a successful manager is as much about winning the hearts and minds of the supports, as it is about getting results. Every time this club has had periods of success, it's when the fans have bought into the managers philosophy, playing style and personality. 

By the time Puel was appointed, Poch had established himself as one of the best managers in English football, Koeman had over seen our most success spell in our premier league era and we were a club on an upward trajectory, we could have attracted a real big name, a proven manager at that stage, to follow 2 of the best managers in English football at that stage, but we went with a relatively unknown and the whole fan base was massively under whelmed.

Puel, despite his results, has become a euphemism for the enthusiasm being taken out the sails of most Saints fans, it contributed to a lack of harmony amongst fans and a de-acceleration of our momentum, for me he will always be considered a failure for that very reason, despite results. 

  • Like 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 Is it misleading to say that the team that finishes first were the best team in the league that year? 

In 2024/25 season we finished bottom with 12 points, it's it misleading to use that to reach the conclusion that we were the worst team?

Those circumstances don't relate to any discussion about a team that finishes eighth in the table. Certainly not in any discussions relating to 'better' or 'worse'. The devil is in the detail.  If a team finishes top (or bottom) by a wide margin then they could quite fairly be described as best or worst.

Just to reiterate for those who are still awake or may even care about such things,  we managed 46 points that season.  The previous season we achieved 63 points yet for some inexplicable reason there are some people who think it was a fabulous achievement to get 46 points. Six teams finished in the range 44 to 46 points. Over the course of the season that difference amounts to less than the width of a goalpost. The team that finished above us in seventh place got 15 points more than us with a goal difference that was 25 goals better than ours.

Any quantitative assessment of that season would say that what we did was nothing to get excited about. 

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Call me old fashioned but if SR could deliver a manager who could provide beating Liverpool in the semis, more than matching Manchester United in a cup final and finishing 8th in the EPL I would bite their hands off.

Whoever it was, we wouldn't finishh anywhere near 8th if we only managed 46 points. As for the rest, "more than matching" is a long stretch considering that we were well beaten.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Those circumstances don't relate to any discussion about a team that finishes eighth in the table. Certainly not in any discussions relating to 'better' or 'worse'. The devil is in the detail.  If a team finishes top (or bottom) by a wide margin then they could quite fairly be described as best or worst.

Just to reiterate for those who are still awake or may even care about such things,  we managed 46 points that season.  The previous season we achieved 63 points yet for some inexplicable reason there are some people who think it was a fabulous achievement to get 46 points. Six teams finished in the range 44 to 46 points. Over the course of the season that difference amounts to less than the width of a goalpost. The team that finished above us in seventh place got 15 points more than us with a goal difference that was 25 goals better than ours.

Any quantitative assessment of that season would say that what we did was nothing to get excited about. 

For a club that has only finished above 8th 9 times in 140 years i would say finishing 8th was something to be excited about

For a club that has only won one major trophy in 140 years reaching 6 finals in that time, i would say reaching a major final was something to be excited about.

I wish we had that level nothing to get excited about now.

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
Just now, Turkish said:

For a club that has only finished above 8th 9 times in 140 years i would say finishing 8th was something to be excited about

For a club that has only won one major trophy in 140 years reaching 6 finals in that time, i would say reaching a major final was something to be excited about.

I wish we had that level nothing to get excited about now.

Finishing 8th was a statistical quirk.

I sum the season up as won nothing,  achieved nothing. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Finishing 8th was a statistical quirk.

I sum the season up as won nothing,  achieved nothing. 

in that case we have only ever had 1 season in 140 years where we have achieved anything.

  • Haha 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

in that case we have only ever had 1 season in 140 years where we have achieved anything.

Yep. You got it.

A few promotions here and there perhaps. For most of the time just not getting relegated is all we could hope for.

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Seems quite clear to me.

And to me. If you can't see the difference then I guess we can all live with that.

It's the attempt to interpret the results as having any significance that I find annoying. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
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Posted
13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yep. You got it.

A few promotions here and there perhaps. For most of the time just not getting relegated is all we could hope for.

Okay, so if our aim is not to get relegated, anything better than getting relegated is an achievement, relatively speaking, yes?

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