New Manager Thread

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Yea because all the teams you’ve mentioned first were proactive teams themselves who came after us, especially in the first halfs and left space to exploit. The teams you mentioned second were reactive tactically against us and meant the space was nullified so we have to try to manipulate the space ourselves by recycling possession. People massively forget the game isn’t all about our 11 players on the pitch. There’s another 11 players actively trying to implement their own game or nullify yours. 

That’s even before you get onto how goals affects games and people’s perceptions of them. The biggest thing that changed, apart from some tactical things regarding our base line, between Still, Eckerts first games and now is how ruthless we were. 

I went to away game with Brum fans who were at SMS and in pub after game they couldn’t believe the difference in the 2 games how our tempo had changed.

Neither Norwich or Oxford were reactive though so that isn’t correct at all.

Of course Fellows injury and Leo being cotton wooled through Christmas meant we were not  as dynamic but things have changed and it’s not for the better and I’m not sure Tonda has the know how to correct it clique or not

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

I went to away game with Brum fans who were at SMS and in pub after game they couldn’t believe the difference in the 2 games how our tempo had changed.

Neither Norwich or Oxford were reactive though so that isn’t correct at all.

Of course Fellows injury and Leo being cotton wooled through Christmas meant we were not  as dynamic but things have changed and it’s not for the better and I’m not sure Tonda has the know how to correct it clique or not

Okay, then yes, we’ve interpreted the games differently. I can’t fathom anyone watching the Oxford game and thinking they were pressing us all over the pitch and expecting the same spaces to exploited like they were against Charlton for example.
 

And also I can’t believe anyone in that pub after the 2nd Brum game didn’t suggest maybe the team who got battered in the first game maybe wanted to do different tactics themselves 2nd time around that maybe affected the game? I’m up for discussing the merits of how we should have seen that coming and done something differently ourselves (I’d argue we don’t have the player profile for that btw) but the idea that it was just our choice that we decided not to do the same things is crazy and naive.

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Go to print  A tweet and a fanzine website post are not going to print ffs  

These people, especially House, crave and rely on talking points to do with Saints. They need you, the punter, to click on, read, engage with, share, discuss and reference their work to survive and thrive. I’ve never read that fanzine rubbish before that so no idea how often he posts but House and the echo need daily content and engagement. They do so by rehashing all week quotes they’ve got from a once a week press conference and they fill in content around it to engage. 

The same goes for Blackmore and Tessem who create narratives thoughout their broadcasts to fuel a podcast later on and then next weeks content. 

If you want to believe these people not only know the inner workings of an environment they are rarely in but also are trying to hint at it in some rebellious cryptic way when they do a tweet then good for you, but I’m going to continue to believe that the local echo journalist naming some names of players he likes is just doing that and hoping you’ll engage with it and his content that pays his way personally.

You don’t half post some utter drivel 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Let’s be brutally honest we were excellent in the first half against West Brom.

The second half we invited all pressure, took our feet off the gas and did nothing to attack or press them.

The games that followed we began passing more and more across the back. So much wasted time, no attacking flare.

It’s been that way since the West Brom game.

There is no excuse. He has constantly chopped and changed players, subbed players off early to “rest them for the next game” before the current game had even been won.

The festive period has been pissed up the wall.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

You don’t half post some utter drivel 

You don’t think content creators want you to engage with the content they create, no?

[AlexLaw76]

it is pretty obvious that teams are allowing the likes of Wood to have the ball, and generally Stephens/Quashie, in our own defensive 3rd and man-mark all other players, especially Armstrong. The only real time our defence is squeezed is when THB has the ball in the right side of defence as he is half-decent at playing out. But his ability to play out on only so good, and not up to playing like prime Koeman ffs

By squeezing up, they are owning the middle 3rd of the pitch, which means balls round the corner to Azaz, Armstrong or Leo are to players now not in acres of space.

Instead of trying to win the battle of the middle of the park, Tonda has brought Leo in more narrow, but he will win shit in a battle/aerial fight.

 

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Okay, then yes, we’ve interpreted the games differently. I can’t fathom anyone watching the Oxford game and thinking they were pressing us all over the pitch and expecting the same spaces to exploited like they were against Charlton for example.
 

And also I can’t believe anyone in that pub after the 2nd Brum game didn’t suggest maybe the team who got battered in the first game maybe wanted to do different tactics themselves 2nd time around that maybe affected the game? I’m up for discussing the merits of how we should have seen that coming and done something differently ourselves (I’d argue we don’t have the player profile for that btw) but the idea that it was just our choice that we decided not to do the same things is crazy and naive.

But that’s the point you are either too naive or crazy to understand that our tempo has slowed against poor sides in the bottom of league and we are not doing what we did against better sides surely even a clever chap like you could see that ? Surely having better players than those we should dictate the pace and tempo? 
Oh also Brum had 4 players out so of course changed tactics they had to but you knew that of course 

[Willo of Whiteley]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You don’t think content creators want you to engage with the content they create, no?

Not to go full MLG but, he’s a journalist, not a “content creator”.

[Osvaldorama]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

it is pretty obvious that teams are allowing the likes of Wood to have the ball, and generally Stephens/Quashie, in our own defensive 3rd and man-mark all other players, especially Armstrong. The only real time our defence is squeezed is when THB has the ball in the right side of defence as he is half-decent at playing out. But his ability to play out on only so good, and not up to playing like prime Koeman ffs

By squeezing up, they are owning the middle 3rd of the pitch, which means balls round the corner to Azaz, Armstrong or Leo are to players now not in acres of space.

Instead of trying to win the battle of the middle of the park, Tonda has brought Leo in more narrow, but he will win shit in a battle/aerial fight.

 

Not to mention oxfords full back was on a yellow, Boro were playing a CM out of position. 
 

Instead of setting up to get Scienza running at their weak area 1on1, we pushed him inside to no-mannings-land against brick shit house centre backs.  

Basically every simple thing that we could do to give ourselves a chance to win games, we do the opposite. lol 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Not to mention oxfords full back was on a yellow, Boro were playing a CM out of position. 
 

Instead of setting up to get Scienza running at their weak area 1on1, we pushed him inside to no-mannings-land against brick shit house centre backs.  

Basically every simple thing that we could do to give ourselves a chance to win games, we do the opposite. lol 

Tonda is fucking clueless and an embarrassment to the club IMO. 

As said, the currently bullshit about cliques etc is just noise to deflect from the novice in the dugout.

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

But that’s the point you are either too naive or crazy to understand that our tempo has slowed against poor sides in the bottom of league and we are not doing what we did against better sides surely even a clever chap like you could see that ? Surely having better players than those we should dictate the pace and tempo? 
Oh also Brum had 4 players out so of course changed tactics they had to but you knew that of course 

Do you not see the pattern there? You said it yourself, the poorer teams take out the tempo by nullifying the space. The better teams/more proactive ones back themselves to create their own problems and take a risk themselves by leaving some. In those Birmingham/WBA/Charlton games what happens once we’ve been ruthless and gone 3/4 up? Their tactics change, space is nullified and our tempo changes and each game the 2nd half is pretty much shut down. I’m not arguing the tempo changes, I’m arguing that’s only normal. To get better tempo against teams who nullify your space you need physical or alternative player types  to create it yourselves. We don’t have that. 

anyway we’re done here, we are not going to agree and we don’t see it the same way. Good chatting anyway.

8 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Not to go full MLG but, he’s a journalist, not a “content creator”.

A Journalist whose job it is to literally create content everyday for the website he wants you to engage with. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:09 by Fabrice29

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Tonda is fucking clueless and an embarrassment to the club IMO. 

As said, the currently bullshit about cliques etc is just noise to deflect from the novice in the dugout.

I don’t think it is. The transformation from playing great attacking stuff to be to being shit happened literally the minute he got the job. Maybe there is something in all the rumours. He’s clearly got no idea what to do, but you don’t just switch from being crap to brilliant back to crap again like that. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I don’t think it is. The transformation from playing great attacking stuff to be to being shit happened literally the minute he got the job. Maybe there is something in all the rumours. He’s clearly got no idea what to do, but you don’t just switch from being crap to brilliant back to crap again like that. 

the teams we faced have better managers' and are able to try and shut the space down. All Tonda can do is shift Leo infield a little and make like-for-like subs/replacements.

QPR away was pretty terrible, Shef Wed at times was pretty terrible. Charlton away was magnificent, but they just gave up tacking and left the park completely wide open...

Of course his way will work now and then, we do have some very good players for this league, but as a 'set up' to build success upon, it is fucking garbage and he is fucking clueless on what to do.

If there was such a stink behind the scenes it cannot be a new thing, why the fuck was Will Still given the job, let along a scared novice like Tonda. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:13 by AlexLaw76

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

the teams we faced have better managers' and are able to try and shut the space down. All Tonda can do is shift Leo infield a little and make like-for-like subs/replacements.

QPR away was pretty terrible, Shef Wed at times was pretty terrible. Charlton away was magnificent, but they just gave up tacking and left the park completely wide open...

Of course his way will work now and then, we do have some very good players for this league, but as a 'set up' to build success upon, it is fucking garbage and he is fucking clueless on what to do.

If there was such a stink behind the scenes it cannot be a new thing, why the fuck was Will Still given the job, let along a scared novice like Tonda. 

Oh, I forgot. The manager has evolved. He shifted THB in the middle off his magnificent back 3 for 45 mins, meaning Wood has more creativity to deliver. Marvellous

Edited Tuesday at 22:15 by AlexLaw76

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Do you not see the pattern there? You said it yourself, the poorer teams take out the tempo by nullifying the space. The better teams/more proactive ones back themselves to create their own problems and take a risk themselves by leaving some. In those Birmingham/WBA/Charlton games what happens once we’ve been ruthless and gone 3/4 up? Their tactics change, space is nullified and our tempo changes and each game the 2nd half is pretty much shut down. I’m not arguing the tempo changes, I’m arguing that’s only normal. To get better tempo against teams who nullify your space you need physical or alternative player types  to create it yourselves. We don’t have that. 

A Journalist whose job it is to literally create content everyday for the website he wants you to engage with. 

But the point is the tempo has dropped and reverting to slow tempo across the back I won’t upset you and call it Russball means the space is lessened because the opposition gets back and fills the space.

When we were moving it faster WBA, Leicester we were creating our own space and chances . We should have enough quality to create that space against the poorer teams we played recently and again I would argue it’s our tempo that allows opponents to nullify us.

We agree on alternative's and still can’t believe we gambled on Stewart fitness and a 6m German 2 player .

 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

But the point is the tempo has dropped and reverting to slow tempo across the back I won’t upset you and call it Russball means the space is lessened because the opposition gets back and fills the space.

When we were moving it faster WBA, Leicester we were creating our own space and chances . We should have enough quality to create that space against the poorer teams we played recently and again I would argue it’s our tempo that allows opponents to nullify us.

We agree on alternative's and still can’t believe we gambled on Stewart fitness and a 6m German 2 player .

 

That s the point though, look how far the opposition now pushes up when we 'play out from the back', whilst allowing our CBs to have the ball around our own box. Downes through to Armstrong are usually man-marked, meaning the ball is bounced backwards too much. Armstrong et al. are not able to easily receive a ball from THB and be in space....it is clear as day.

 

Edited Tuesday at 22:22 by AlexLaw76

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just for context so I can understand some of these responses a bit more; and these are genuine questions for @Fabrice29:

What are your current thoughts on the playing squad?

What are your views on Tonda Eckhart, his tactics and formation?

What would you suggest are realistic and alternative options for the manager role if it were available?

How do you think we played over the Christmas period or since the West Brom game?

What are your thoughts for the rest of the season?

What are you thoughts about the board, club set up, hierarchy etc?

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That s the point though, look how far the opposition now pushes up when we 'play out from the back', whilst allowing our CBs to have the ball around our own box. Downes through to Armstrong are usually man-marked, meaning the ball is bounced backwards too much. Armstrong et al. are not able to easily receive a ball from THB and be in space....it clear as day.

 

Agreed but passing the ball in the 6 yard box doesn’t help that from restarts we even had Jander do one!

I agree with your Leo point him coming in field has narrowed the space and easier to mark when we had Leo and Fellows wide it created space and they drove us up the pitch we didn’t just have the THB out ball

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Agreed but passing the ball in the 6 yard box doesn’t help that from restarts we even had Jander do one!

I agree with your Leo point him coming in field has narrowed the space and easier to mark when we had Leo and Fellows wide it created space and they drove us up the pitch we didn’t just have the THB out ball

I find it infuriating when an outfield player takes a goal kick and passes it 3 yards to Bazunu.

Not saying just pump it up the pitch, but do something else.

I generally believe the manager is just hopeless right now, and this job is, and was always, waaaay beyond him. 

[Give it to Ron]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I find it infuriating when an outfield player takes a goal kick and passes it 3 yards to Bazunu.

Not saying just pump it up the pitch, but do something else.

I generally believe the manager is just hopeless right now, and this job is, and was always, waaaay beyond him. 

So we don’t have a big lump but Azaz, Manning, Fellows are over 6ft and pushing a defender wide too is better option at times.

Its meant to draw sides to you but teams like Millwall are brilliant at pressing best have seen this year plus they had 3 of biggest defenders have seen!

I don’t get why he hasn’t tried both Archer and Armstrong up front putting ball down sides turn them round.

Edwards, Wellington stay at home full backs, Jander - Downes holding , Pick 2 c/h, Fellow and Leo wide.

At least give that a try make us harder to beat through midfield 

Edited Tuesday at 22:40 by Give it to Ron

[Fabrice29]

17 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Just for context so I can understand some of these responses a bit more; and these are genuine questions for @Fabrice29:

What are your current thoughts on the playing squad?

What are your views on Tonda Eckhart, his tactics and formation?

What would you suggest are realistic and alternative options for the manager role if it were available?

How do you think we played over the Christmas period or since the West Brom game?

What are your thoughts for the rest of the season?

What are you thoughts about the board, club set up, hierarchy etc?

1) Missing key alternative profiles which I’ve posted about in the January transfer thread

2) No issues with either in the sense that I think we’ve changed all 3 over the last 13 months and the same issues rear their heads every time. Not the problem.

3) No idea and it’s not relevant. 

4) Ultimately poor, obviously. But as I’ve said in here and elsewhere the biggest difference is how ruthless we were and now wasteful we are. 

5) in what sense? I’ll be going and wanting wins. Get some better options in the squad and get on a winning run and anything could happen. If we show apathy in the window the season will fade out. The idea that any season is a write off in January is nuts though, for a whole host of reasons.

5) Not a fan of the owner, messed up and mixed ideas below that, so it the lacks the clarity and plan that we had when we went up last time. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:39 by Fabrice29

[Give it to Ron]

10 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

1) Missing key alternative profiles which I’ve posted about in the January transfer thread

2) No issues with either in the sense that I think we’ve changed all 3 over the last 13 months and the same issues rear their heads every time. Not the problem.

3) No idea and it’s not relevant. 

4) Ultimately poor, obviously. But as I’ve said in here and elsewhere the biggest difference is how ruthless we were and now wasteful we are. 

5) in what sense? I’ll be going and wanting wins. Get some better options in the squad and get on a winning run and anything could happen. If we show apathy in the window the season will fade out. The idea that any season is a write off in January is nuts though, for a whole host of reasons.

5) Not a fan of the owner, messed up and mixed ideas below that, so it the lacks the clarity and plan that we had when we went up last time. 

Point 1 is bang on if we don’t get a forward and rely on Stewart again …but with Downs off we surely will bring in someone. Keeper looks done. Shea back will help.

I think it was Dowie who at Palace bottom at Christmas then got promoted it can be done .

Its the management and above that concerns me - have done some good things infrastructure wise but the most important they fail badly and just do not learn.

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just the 5 managers since Martin have picked them. All 5 had the opportunity and means to drop them if they thought it would help. That fairy liquid has gone to your head you big old misogynist. 

Hilarious you boring cunt.

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Hilarious you boring cunt.

You don’t want to be reminded of your own words anymore? 😢

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You don’t want to be reminded of your own words anymore? 😢

Strange person aren’t you.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Fight, fight, fight…. 😂

Russell Martin wouldn’t sort this lot out.

I think until there’s a thorough clear out things will stay relatively the same for a few years.
I think the mentality of the players so is fragile and it doesn’t help with playing a formation that doesn’t play to the squads strengths.

That combination is always going to end up in mid-table mediocrity, at which point the noises of discontent become louder.

[saint michael]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

I don’t think it is. The transformation from playing great attacking stuff to be to being shit happened literally the minute he got the job. Maybe there is something in all the rumours. He’s clearly got no idea what to do, but you don’t just switch from being crap to brilliant back to crap again like that. 

I think part of the games when we looked “good” we were also shit ie second halves, this started before he got the job and  is exactly what we are seeing now. If there are cliques and would be surprised if there wasn’t, I’m not sure what their intent is, and how much of an influence it is having. 
 

I can’t get away from this ridiculous need to spend much of the game passing sideways and backwards with no intent, taking too many touches and always the most safe pass being taken is anything other than a totally lightweight useless group of players that will not take coaching. There is just so much wrong that the cumulative effect is overwhelming. What scared me most was Tonda putting it all down to resilience after the Boro game. Shocking. 

Edited yesterday at 07:51 by saint michael

[Fabrice29]

8 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Strange person aren’t you.

Don’t turn this back on me. Man up and say sorry to the lady and I’ll stop. 

[Hawkswood]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/jan/06/ruben-amorim-manchester-united-jason-wilcox?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Sections of this article will definitely ring true for a lot of us on here. Also starring one of our old mates !!

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Thomas Frank not having a good time at Spurs....could he end up at Saints come the summer?

In fairness if Spurs get rid, he'll have a few clubs to choose from I'd have thought.

[St. Ciervo]

My god... even when we had chances to counter, our CF will shift the ball to the outside (Manning), and we will inevitably run out of space and send it back to our CBs. We are not direct at all, even when down by 1 near stoppage time. There is no urgency EVER. 

Also, if teams are going to sit in a low block, maybe we should f-off with the 3rd CB??? 

[St. Ciervo]

More importantly, Alfie House has a lot to lose by sharing that insight. The culprits must go at any cost. They are a spent cost. Their further involvement nullifies or any good changes we do make (ie. unearthing Scienza, getting a new mgr).  

[ally_uk]

Well the players who are being disruptive need a reality check, they are not as good as they think they are... Bunch of bottle jobs

That's why we need to tell Rasmus to jog on and get experienced manager who is capable of giving out a bollocking and setting the standards once in a while..... 

Edited 4 hours ago by ally_uk

[S-Clarke]

10 hours ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Thomas Frank not having a good time at Spurs....could he end up at Saints come the summer?

In fairness if Spurs get rid, he'll have a few clubs to choose from I'd have thought.

I think we need to realise how many light years away we are from managers like that, even the likes of Lampard is out of our league these days. This is the damage SR have done. We are no longer a credible high level football club.

[coalman]

7 hours ago, St. Ciervo said:

More importantly, Alfie House has a lot to lose by sharing that insight. The culprits must go at any cost. They are a spent cost. Their further involvement nullifies or any good changes we do make (ie. unearthing Scienza, getting a new mgr).  

The only downside is the alleged culprits are only part of the problem and are likely to be a scapegoated by the other part(s) to buy time.

[Wade Garrett]

9 minutes ago, coalman said:

The only downside is the alleged culprits are only part of the problem and are likely to be a scapegoated by the other part(s) to buy time.

According to Jack Stephens in the Echo, there has been no lack of effort and things haven’t changed since Eckert took over.

Personally, my eyes tell me the complete opposite.  We are too slow now and pissing around with the ball too much.

I think Jack is full of it.  Don’t forget, Armstrong admitted that players downed tools to get rid of Still.  They’ve got form.

[coalman]

4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

According to Jack Stephens in the Echo, there has been no lack of effort and things haven’t changed since Eckert took over.

Personally, my eyes tell me the complete opposite.  We are too slow now and pissing around with the ball too much.

I think Jack is full of it.  Don’t forget, Armstrong admitted that players downed tools to get rid of Still.  They’ve got form.

That's all part of the culture now. Playing the victim in public over how hard you work or unlucky they were. Taking ownership is a form of performative art.

If you've been utter shite for most of the last two seasons how about shutting the fuck up and putting the work in rather than gaslighting the fans. The playoff final win is in the increasingly distant past.

Edited 2 hours ago by coalman

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

According to Jack Stephens in the Echo, there has been no lack of effort and things haven’t changed since Eckert took over.

Personally, my eyes tell me the complete opposite.  We are too slow now and pissing around with the ball too much.

I think Jack is full of it.  Don’t forget, Armstrong admitted that players downed tools to get rid of Still.  They’ve got form.

Thick as mince footballers in struggling to lie convincingly shocker...

[LeG]

If feels like when Tonda took over, the team went back to basics, and when he let them play more freely, we looked unstoppable at times.  As the weeks have gone by, he's tried to implement his tactics and given the players more detailed instructions....back to being a sh1tshow.

Alfie House is right though - It's time to get rid of the RM players, but he should be asking if Tonda is being instructed to play 3 at the back by Spors.

 

It's mind blowing how a team with our budget just doesn't go with an Exp manager and buys up all the best captains /leaders in the league, as well as it's best players. Cortese knew what he was doing there. Lambert, Fonte, Hammond, Butterfield, SKD, Jaidi, Jos - one of the best dressing rooms we've ever had. 

 

 

 

 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, LeG said:

If feels like when Tonda took over, the team went back to basics, and when he let them play more freely, we looked unstoppable at times.  As the weeks have gone by, he's tried to implement his tactics and given the players more detailed instructions....back to being a sh1tshow.

Alfie House is right though - It's time to get rid of the RM players, but he should be asking if Tonda is being instructed to play 3 at the back by Spors.

 

It's mind blowing how a team with our budget just doesn't go with an Exp manager and buys up all the best captains /leaders in the league, as well as it's best players. Cortese knew what he was doing there. Lambert, Fonte, Hammond, Butterfield, SKD, Jaidi, Jos - one of the best dressing rooms we've ever had. 

 

 

 

 

thats the sensible, normal approach. This isn't the SR/Saints do things differently, think outside the box, if it aint broke, break it, thinking etc. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we need to realise how many light years away we are from managers like that, even the likes of Lampard is out of our league these days. This is the damage SR have done. We are no longer a credible high level football club.

We can dream and be positive! Surely Rasmus would have him

 

[ally_uk]

12 hours ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Thomas Frank not having a good time at Spurs....could he end up at Saints come the summer?

In fairness if Spurs get rid, he'll have a few clubs to choose from I'd have thought.

Got more change of appointing Frank Butcher 🤣

[Themotherfunky]

11 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Got more change of appointing Frank Butcher 🤣