The Burnham Years - Can the new(ish) broom sweep clean?

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Glad to see that people are giving Burnham a chance, and not making up their minds before he's had a chance to implement any of his ideas.

I'm also wondering what previous experience @Sir Ralph wants before someone becomes PM, considering Mayor of our largest cities isn't the requisite experience wanted for the role?

As I said above “I agree that being a mayor of a city shows a degree of experience in being able to administratively running a public organisation. My point is that that is by no means an indicator of likely success as running a country is very different. My personal view is somebody that has successfully held a serious role in government, such as chancellor, would be a better likely indicator of success.  @badgerx16 own opinion of BJ being mayor of a city supports this ”

My point is too much weight appears to be being applied by the media and others to the fact he was mayor as an indicator of his likely success. I agree we need to see what his policies are and how successful they are when put into practice.

[badgerx16]

8 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

@badgerx16 own opinion of BJ being mayor of a city supports this 

You have mistaken "...even if Boris was a good Mayor..." for "...Boris was a good Mayor...". I have not given a judgement on Boris as Mayor as I have no experience on which to base it. AB, on the other hand, I do think was a good Mayor, based on personal experience, and testimony from many friends and family living in Greater Manchester.

[whelk]

9 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

None. Difference is “your lad” is living off of some sort of belief that because he was mayor of Manchester for a few years he has credibility to run the country. 
 

BJ actually did a great job in London which is a harder gig - what was your view of how he did as PM?

You really come across as a vey bigoted thick cunt.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

As I said above “I agree that being a mayor of a city shows a degree of experience in being able to administratively running a public organisation. My point is that that is by no means an indicator of likely success as running a country is very different. My personal view is somebody that has successfully held a serious role in government, such as chancellor, would be a better likely indicator of success.  @badgerx16 own opinion of BJ being mayor of a city supports this ”

My point is too much weight appears to be being applied by the media and others to the fact he was mayor as an indicator of his likely success. I agree we need to see what his policies are and how successful they are when put into practice.

So you prefer a narrow specialist scope rather than a broad management scope to be PM.

Personally I think the second is better considering he will have a similar setup to what he previously had in Manchester, just on a larger scale.

[whelk]

9 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

So running a harder gig, being a good mayor of London, and you thought BJ was a bad PM. So why would AB be a good PM based on his role in Manchester? My point is being mayor of Manchester is pretty much irrelevant.

Such arrogance and dreadful logic. Do you realise he has been in government?

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You have mistaken "...even if Boris was a good Mayor..." for "...Boris was a good Mayor...". I have not given a judgement on Boris as Mayor as I have no experience on which to base it. AB, on the other hand, I do think was a good Mayor, based on personal experience, and testimony from many friends and family living in Greater Manchester.

Ok as I live in London Boris was regarded as a good mayor as I’m sure Burnham was. They wouldn’t have got the PM gigs otherwise. 

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

You really come across as a vey bigoted thick cunt.

“Very”. I agree I probably didn’t need the sarcasm of “your lad”. Apologies to those offended by my use of language 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Such arrogance and dreadful logic. Do you realise he has been in government?

Did anybody notice? 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

“Very”

Don’t get that from your ChatGPT

Edited 2 hours ago by whelk

[Sir Ralph]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

Such arrogance and dreadful logic. Do you realise he has been in government?

If you want to justify his credentials on this basis what difference did he make in those roles and why didn’t the PM at the time give him one of the top roles in the cabinet? Anyway as I also said let’s see what his policies say.

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 What difference did he make in those roles and why didn’t the PM at the time give him one of the top roles in the cabinet?

I just can’t believe we have someone as PM who wasn’t doing a job 100% the same as an Pm role and had exactly the same experience when they were 21. Then I’d be happy. Oh and they have to be Tory and do away with taxes and social security.

Edited 2 hours ago by whelk

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

I just can’t believe we have someone as PM who wasn’t doing a job 100% the same as an Pm role and had exactly the same experience when they were 21. Then I’d be happy. Oh and they have to be Tory and do away with taxes and social security.

I didn’t say that so don’t misquote - I said the media and AB supporters seem to be attaching too much weight to his likely success because he ran Manchester - my point is that they shouldn’t be attaching too much weight to this. 
 

they do need to have the ability to understand how to introduce policies that will improve and not damage the economy. To me that will be AB main test1.

1. ChatGPT (2026)

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I didn’t say that so don’t misquote - I said the media and AB supporters seem to be attaching too much weight to his likely success because he ran Manchester - my point is that they shouldn’t be attaching too much weight to this. 
 

they do need to have the ability to understand how to introduce policies that will improve and not damage the economy. To me that will be AB main test

Or perhaps just give the bloke a chance and see how he does. Sensible people do that, and don't over analyse. 

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Or perhaps just give the bloke a chance and see how he does. Sensible people do that, and don't over analyse. 

My point was a very simple. I wasn’t the one overanalysing it. Not sure why some are so defensive of AB over this.

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I didn’t say that so don’t misquote - I said the media and AB supporters seem to be attaching too much weight to his likely success because he ran Manchester - my point is that they shouldn’t be attaching too much weight to this. 
 

they do need to have the ability to understand how to introduce policies that will improve and not damage the economy

That will soon become irrelevant and he will be judged as how he is doing as PM. That isn’t a role that has any hiding place. I am willing to give him a chance but many already want to have a pop at anything however minor. That shows their allegiances and as I said earlier reflects on general negativity as opposed to try to even be neutral if not positive. Probably applies to many other things and both left and right have so much rage.

[Sir Ralph]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

That will soon become irrelevant and he will be judged as how he is doing as PM. That isn’t a role that has any hiding place. I am willing to give him a chance but many already want to have a pop at anything however minor. That shows their allegiances and as I said earlier reflects on general negativity as opposed to try to even be neutral if not positive. Probably applies to many other things and both left and right have so much rage.

I think we all have preconceptions of how he will do. I do based on his political stance on other matters historically and I don’t have “rage” (little point when his policies are out of our control) but I agree that we need to see his key policies. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Or perhaps just give the bloke a chance and see how he does. Sensible people do that, and don't over analyse. 

This.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

I think we all have preconceptions of how he will do. I do based on his political stance on other matters historically and I don’t have “rage” but I agree that we need to see his key policies. 

Why have preconceptions though? Just judge him on what he does. 

You complained from day -100 on Keir, with him being bad for the economy (even though the economy outperformed the previous 3 Tory PMs), and then when Keir looked like he was getting shunted you threw your toys out of the pram about Burnham taking over.

How's about you stop, take a step back, and judge people on their actions and actual results rather than what you're being told to think by the Mail or the Express?

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Why have preconceptions though?

Preconceived thinking? On the Saintsweb forum? Nah... Can't see that ever catching on...

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

Preconceived thinking? On the Saintsweb forum? Nah... Can't see that ever catching on...

Absolutely, and people will always have them, but expressing them in a public place ahead of any evidence makes people look knee-jerk, partisan and immature.

[Sir Ralph]

18 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely, and people will always have them, but expressing them in a public place ahead of any evidence makes people look knee-jerk, partisan and immature.

So everyone on here then 😂
 

At pains of repeating myself (as some are struggling with this) I only said his role as mayor of manc isn’t strong evidence, in my view, that he will be a good PM. A legitimate opinion to hold. I’m sure people on here have never commented on what would happen if Reform got into power - that would be very partisan and immature 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So I assume you have or have never commented on whether farage would be a good PM?

I can't comment on how he'd be at the actual job, but I can comment on his past political misfires and how he's ruined the country due to that.

What about Burnham's career makes you think he won't be a successful PM?

Edited 2 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So everyone on here then 😂
 

At pains of repeating myself (as some are struggling with this) I only said his role as mayor of manc isn’t strong evidence, in my view, that he will be a good PM. A legitimate opinion to hold. 

Ok, so at no point you have said you don't think Burnham will be a good PM?

[Sir Ralph]

24 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I can't comment on how he'd be at the actual job, but I can comment on his past political misfires and how he's ruined the country due to that.

What about Burnham's career makes you think he won't be a successful PM?

I am sceptical about the policies he will bring in and the impact on the economy based on what he has said before About the types of policies he would support. However I’m not partisan to the extent that if he does a good job, then great
 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Or perhaps just give the bloke a chance and see how he does. Sensible people do that, and don't over analyse. 

One to save when Farage is being driven to the Palace requesting to form a Government in a few years 😜

[egg]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

My point was a very simple. I wasn’t the one overanalysing it. Not sure why some are so defensive of AB over this.

Most of your points are very simple. 

[trousers]

45 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely, and people will always have them, but expressing them in a public place ahead of any evidence makes people look knee-jerk, partisan and immature.

If only self-reflection was allowed on this forum...

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

One to save when Farage is being driven to the Palace requesting to form a Government in a few years 😜

Someone is going to be disappointed 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

One to save when Farage is being driven to the Palace requesting to form a Government in a few years 😜

There's plenty Farage has said which alarms me immensely. Nothing Burnham has said, yet, does. 

There's a distinction between foresight and being partisan. 

[AlexLaw76]

That’s a classic partisan double standard, though. What alarms you about Farage is grounded in your political stance, just as what reassures you about Burnham is. Millions of people find the full range of policies alarming, while finding Farage's approach refreshing.

Claiming your own political preferences are just 'objective foresight' while brushing off the other side is pretty much partisanship 101

[Sir Ralph]

14 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That’s a classic partisan double standard, though. What alarms you about Farage is grounded in your political stance, just as what reassures you about Burnham is. Millions of people find the full range of policies alarming, while finding Farage's approach refreshing.

Claiming your own political preferences are just 'objective foresight' while brushing off the other side is pretty much partisanship 101

How dare you point out the obvious. Don’t you know @eggis right about everything . Strange how many of those on one part of the political spectrum seem to think this.

Edited 59 minutes ago by Sir Ralph

[egg]

14 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That’s a classic partisan double standard, though. What alarms you about Farage is grounded in your political stance, just as what reassures you about Burnham is. Millions of people find the full range of policies alarming, while finding Farage's approach refreshing.

Claiming your own political preferences are just 'objective foresight' while brushing off the other side is pretty much partisanship 101

I disagree. Burnham hadn't said anything meaningful about his policies pre his coronation, and I've criticised that process. Had their been an election involving him, I'd have wanted to know before deciding whether to cast a vote for his party. Having never voted labour, I'd have taken some persuasion though. 

Farage, in contrast, has said plenty. Playing the tape forwards, I think he'll be a disaster. That's what all voters have a duty to do imo. If he's elected, heaven forbid , I'll give him a chance - what other choice is there. 

Back to your initial point, I can't be partisan towards a party I've never voted for, or a bloke I've never voted for. 

Edited 58 minutes ago by egg

[egg]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

How dare you point out the obvious. Don’t you know @eggis right about everything 

I'm right on this petal. 

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm right on this petal. 

.

Edited 50 minutes ago by Sir Ralph
Can’t debate with someone who is always right

[Farmer Saint]

53 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I am sceptical about the policies he will bring in and the impact on the economy based on what he has said before About the types of policies he would support. However I’m not partisan to the extent that if he does a good job, then great
 

 

Like what policies?

[Farmer Saint]

34 minutes ago, trousers said:

If only self-reflection was allowed on this forum...

I think you misunderstand what is said to wind people up and what people actual believe.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

No, no you’re right about everything- if only you were the dictator of this country.

Nice deletion mate...you mentioned "your side of the political spectrum".  That says it all - anyone to your left, even a centrist who's ever voted labour like me, is a lefty on your view. 

We're not the US with a simple left/right division, but we seemingly are to people with your simple political outlook. I was going to retract my earlier comment re your simple views, but you've justified it yourself. 

[Farmer Saint]

25 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That’s a classic partisan double standard, though. What alarms you about Farage is grounded in your political stance, just as what reassures you about Burnham is. Millions of people find the full range of policies alarming, while finding Farage's approach refreshing.

Claiming your own political preferences are just 'objective foresight' while brushing off the other side is pretty much partisanship 101

I think Farage has shown far more worrying characteristics. Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Nice deletion mate...you mentioned "your side of the political spectrum".  That says it all - anyone to your left, even a centrist who's ever voted labour like me, is a lefty on your view. 

We're not the US with a simple left/right division, but we seemingly are to people with your simple political outlook. I was going to retract my earlier comment re your simple views, but you've justified it yourself. 

You’re not a centrist though. You say that to make your view appear balanced and what the majority believe which is a common tactic nowadays . I’m happy to admit I’m conservative but don’t pretend otherwise. 

Edited 41 minutes ago by Sir Ralph

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think Farage has shown far more worrying characteristics. Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

and yet, Burnham is the leader of a party that used racism, islamophobia, antisemitism as "factional weapons" in the last few years, whilst being responsible for harassment and discrimination. 

 

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You’re not a centrist though. You say that to make your view appear balanced and what the majority believe which is a common tactic nowadays . I’m happy to admit I’m conservative but don’t pretend otherwise. 

I presume you'd also call me left, but I'm a centrist. I think you're misunderstanding what counts as centrist and left nowadays.

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You’re not a centrist though. You say that to make your view appear balanced and what the majority believe which is a common tactic nowadays .. 

Where exactly on the political spectrum do this "majority" exist ?

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

and yet, Burnham is the leader of a party that used racism, islamophobia, antisemitism as "factional weapons" in the last few years, whilst being responsible for harassment and discrimination. 

 

What the hell is a "factional weapon"? 

We're not talking about parties, we're talking about Farage v Burnham. So I'll repeat: Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Where exactly on the political spectrum do this "majority" exist ?

The  point I’m making is taking the view that you are a centrist means that you are declaring your views are balanced. Some people are centrists but @egg regularly falls on one side of a debate as I do. I don’t pretend I’m anything but a conservative 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

What the hell is a "factional weapon"? 

We're not talking about parties, we're talking about Farage v Burnham. So I'll repeat: Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-forde-report-antisemitism#:~:text=Exclusive%3A The Forde Report has revealed that,that the party has found itself dysfunctional”.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What the hell is a "factional weapon"? 

We're not talking about parties, we're talking about Farage v Burnham. So I'll repeat: Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

A missile with "1922 Committee" stencilled on it.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-forde-report-antisemitism#:~:text=Exclusive%3A The Forde Report has revealed that,that the party has found itself dysfunctional”.

What's that got to do with Burnham and making preconceptions about his political stance?

[Sir Ralph]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What the hell is a "factional weapon"? 

We're not talking about parties, we're talking about Farage v Burnham. So I'll repeat: Racism, fascism, corruption, Brexit etc are all far worse, surely?

When has farage been found guilty of racism, facism or corruption? Bearing in mind he has had a lot more scrutiny than Burnham over the years because he was heavily scrutinised by the media as the front man of Brexit.

Brexit was a political decision not an illegal action.

Edited 19 minutes ago by Sir Ralph

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What's that got to do with Burnham and making preconceptions about his political stance?

As much as stating (as a centrist) that Farage is a racist and a racist....

[egg]

25 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You’re not a centrist though. You say that to make your view appear balanced and what the majority believe which is a common tactic nowadays . I’m happy to admit I’m conservative but don’t pretend otherwise. 

That highlights your misunderstanding - no centrist is bang in the middle, and I'm certainly left of centre on some issues and right of centre on others. I'm left of you though, so in your view I can't possibly be a centrist.