The Burnham Years - Can the new(ish) broom sweep clean?

[trousers]

3 hours ago, iansums said:

To be honest it's always the case that those oppose a Labour government won't comment on the good news and will on the bad, the same goes for those who oppose a Tory government.

Nah... Never seen that kind of blinkered / confirmation bias approach to discussions here on Saintsweb before...

Edited August 13 by trousers

[iansums]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Would you be happy if a banner is unfurled declaring “IanSums is a massive cunt”?

Only if its you doing the unfurling.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Would you be happy if a banner is unfurled declaring “IanSums is a massive cunt”?

FFS!  You know he's not allowed a vote on these things.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Ian has different views but they’re always well expressed and rational/logical even if I don’t agree with them sometimes. Actually wants to have a discussion - that old fashioned thing - not just post the latest crap from X/Brietbart/Telegram/Reddit (latter does have a range of views) without any context.

Soggy got hammered for doing that and making stuff up, but he’s not alone.

Oh, and my new campaign #suffrageforsums

I thought we were already suffering @iansums. Why the campaign...oh....suffrage...never mind...

 

This post was brought to you by #forumbantz.

[badgerx16]

6 hours ago, iansums said:

 I expect to see a proper protest on my behalf at next years Epsom Derby.

Any volunteers to throw themselves in front of the King's horse ?

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Any volunteers to throw themselves in front of the King's horse ?

Can’t we just nominate? 

[iansums]

None of the 'centrists' going to mention the rise in inflation? As I said, it works both ways. Not unexpected of course, and not necessarily the fault of the government.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, iansums said:

None of the 'centrists' going to mention the rise in inflation? As I said, it works both ways. Not unexpected of course, and not necessarily the fault of the government.

Yep, 0.3% up. Food inflation still very low, which is great 👍 

[Farmer Saint]

Very interesting video around inflation and bond yields, explained fantastically, again, by Ed Conway:

 

 

[badgerx16]

27 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Very interesting video around inflation and bond yields, explained fantastically, again, by Ed Conway:

 

 

So we blame Trump and Truss ?

[Farmer Saint]

39 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So we blame Trump and Truss ?

Sounds like it.

[Wade Garrett]

There's certainly something to be said for poorly regulated utilities costing an arm and a leg and the bill payer paying for all the infrastrucure investment rather than shareholders.  But unless he's going to nationalise them, it's just hot air to please the galleries.

The best thing he could do it cut taxes to encourage the economy to grow and businesses expand.  I don't think he thinks like that though.  

[Saint86]

16 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

There's certainly something to be said for poorly regulated utilities costing an arm and a leg and the bill payer paying for all the infrastrucure investment rather than shareholders.  But unless he's going to nationalise them, it's just hot air to please the galleries.

The best thing he could do it cut taxes to encourage the economy to grow and businesses expand.  I don't think he thinks like that though.  

I think hell will freeze over before you see this government cut taxes.

I think we've got a real issue with youth unemployment and lack of prospects currently - goes under the radar with all the defence / welfare / migration politicisation, but we've got to get these people into work, gaining experience, and giving them the tools to start their adult lives.

Edited Thursday at 08:46 by Saint86

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I think hell will freeze over before you see this government cut taxes.

I think we've got a real issue with youth unemployment and lack of prospects currently - goes under the radar with all the defence / welfare / migration politicisation, but we've got to get these people into work, gaining experience, and giving them the tools to start their adult lives.

No government could cut taxes, or even logically consider it, until Trump reins in his Zionist fanatic son in law and gets the Straits open again. Agree on your point about youth unemployment, of which the minimum wage increase is part, but only part. We need proper work coaches to not only help with the right openings but also to ensure they’ve got the core range of skills employers need in today’s labour market. 

[tdmickey3]

Badenoch, saying they would increase defence spending by 10bn, the austerity party who hollowed it out over 14 years along with the police and other services

Surely people will be laughing at this, I find it utterly hilarious

Edited Thursday at 16:14 by tdmickey3

[Gloucester Saint]

20 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Badenoch, saying they would increase defence spending by 10bn, the austerity party who hollowed it out over years along with the police and other services

Surely people will be laughing at this, I find it utterly hilarious

Cameron and Osborne said all sorts of stuff in opposition, then they found the reality in the Coalition. The Bedroom Tax in particular they had to U-Turn on after their backbenchers inboxes became bin fires. 

[badgerx16]

LG reorganisation halted pending a review, in Hampshire the plans have been withdrawn.

Edited yesterday at 13:47 by badgerx16

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

LG reorganisation halted pending a review, in Hampshire the plans have been withdrawn.

I could never see how this was saving tax payers money. No way local government could pull this off without haemorrhaging money to management consultants who’d be writing CoPilot reports charging them thousands to have the Deloitte/PWC/KPMG notional stamp of approval. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I could never see how this was saving tax payers money. No way local government could pull this off without haemorrhaging money to management consultants who’d be writing CoPilot reports charging them thousands to have the Deloitte/PWC/KPMG notional stamp of approval. 

Yep. All sorts of practical issues as well. It was an expensive change for the sake of change. 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

I could never see how this was saving tax payers money. No way local government could pull this off without haemorrhaging money to management consultants who’d be writing CoPilot reports charging them thousands to have the Deloitte/PWC/KPMG notional stamp of approval. 

 

1 minute ago, egg said:

Yep. All sorts of practical issues as well. It was an expensive change for the sake of change. 

The estimate is that the first thing the proposed East Lancashire authority would have to do is find £43 million in savings relative to current spending between the districts and County Council.

[Osvaldorama]

Another billionaire leaves:

https://www.thetimes.com/business/companies-markets/article/chris-rokos-hedge-fund-leave-uk-8nt8rhqh6

Over £330mn per year in tax revenue gone. (22,000 average workers to replace what he was putting in.)

I was assured this wouldn’t happen?

 

Edited yesterday at 20:35 by Osvaldorama

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Another billionaire leaves:

https://www.thetimes.com/business/companies-markets/article/chris-rokos-hedge-fund-leave-uk-8nt8rhqh6

Over £330mn per year in tax revenue gone. (22,000 average workers to replace what he was putting in.)

I was assured this wouldn’t happen?

 

Who assured you ? 1 billionaire out of 157. According to Sir Ralph there is an exodus.

Edited 23 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Who assured you ? 1 billionaire out of 157. According to Sir Ralph there is an exodus.

The richest billionaires who have left Britain

Yes only 1 billionaire! See article for some of the more high profile that have left and their reasons why."...The German-born investor has now relocated to Switzerland, joining the wave of wealthy financiers fleeing the UK. Reflecting on his decision to go, Angermayer said: "Every non-dom I know has left, or is about to leave"...". 

At the end of July it was reported that the number of millionaires in the UK has fallen to its lowest level is two decades. 

Are the rich leaving the UK due to high taxes? Where the wealthy are going | MoneyWeek

Edited 21 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

On 03/09/2026 at 15:19, tdmickey3 said:

Badenoch, saying they would increase defence spending by 10bn, the austerity party who hollowed it out over 14 years along with the police and other services

Surely people will be laughing at this, I find it utterly hilarious

It was called the 2008 financial crisis

[Weston Super Saint]

6 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

The richest billionaires who have left Britain

Yes only 1 billionaire! See article for some of the more high profile that have left and their reasons why."...The German-born investor has now relocated to Switzerland, joining the wave of wealthy financiers fleeing the UK. Reflecting on his decision to go, Angermayer said: "Every non-dom I know has left, or is about to leave"...". 

At the end of July it was reported that the number of millionaires in the UK has fallen to its lowest level is two decades. 

Are the rich leaving the UK due to high taxes? Where the wealthy are going | MoneyWeek

So.... The story is basically :  German Person moves to England, makes some good money, then moves to Switzerland.

I wonder why he moved to Switzerland?  I bet, 100% it's because of the UK Government and definitely not, in any way shape or form, because of the tax haven status of Switzerland.  No sir, definitely not.  Would be crazy to suggest such a thing.

[tdmickey3]

7 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

The richest billionaires who have left Britain

Yes only 1 billionaire! See article for some of the more high profile that have left and their reasons why."...The German-born investor has now relocated to Switzerland, joining the wave of wealthy financiers fleeing the UK. Reflecting on his decision to go, Angermayer said: "Every non-dom I know has left, or is about to leave"...". 

At the end of July it was reported that the number of millionaires in the UK has fallen to its lowest level is two decades. 

Are the rich leaving the UK due to high taxes? Where the wealthy are going | MoneyWeek

I wondered when you would turn up and make fool of yourself again, absolute clown

15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So.... The story is basically :  German Person moves to England, makes some good money, then moves to Switzerland.

I wonder why he moved to Switzerland?  I bet, 100% it's because of the UK Government and definitely not, in any way shape or form, because of the tax haven status of Switzerland.  No sir, definitely not.  Would be crazy to suggest such a thing.

 

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So.... The story is basically :  German Person moves to England, makes some good money, then moves to Switzerland.

I wonder why he moved to Switzerland?  I bet, 100% it's because of the UK Government and definitely not, in any way shape or form, because of the tax haven status of Switzerland.  No sir, definitely not.  Would be crazy to suggest such a thing.

So what about all the other billionaires and the second article? Also why did he decide to move now and not before (I’m not aware the Swiss tax regime has become more favourable than before) at a similar time to lots of others - is that just an unhappy coincidence? Also what about his comment regarding other billionaires leaving? John Fredrikson: He then relocated his empire to Dubai, joining a growing exodus of billionaires seeking the UAE's tax-friendly environment. And with one final parting shot, he told newspaper outlets that "Britain has gone to hell".

Edited 12 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Osvaldorama]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Who assured you ? 1 billionaire out of 157. According to Sir Ralph there is an exodus.

Did you not read my post? He pays the equivalent of tens of thousands of workers worth of tax. 
 

How do you think that will impact your taxes? 

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

I wondered when you would turn up and make fool of yourself again, absolute clown

 

Not really - I produce information that supports what I say. You make childish comments and provide no information to support your childish comments

Edited 12 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So.... The story is basically :  German Person moves to England, makes some good money, then moves to Switzerland.

I wonder why he moved to Switzerland?  I bet, 100% it's because of the UK Government and definitely not, in any way shape or form, because of the tax haven status of Switzerland.  No sir, definitely not.  Would be crazy to suggest such a thing.

We are losing millionaires and billionaires to places like Greece & Italy, due to our punishing taxes and badly run country. 
 

This would have been unthinkable a decade ago. And the trend is only getting worse.   

Anyone that thinks this is good doesn’t understand basic economics 

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Did you not read my post? He pays the equivalent of tens of thousands of workers worth of tax. 
 

How do you think that will impact your taxes? 

And public services

[Osvaldorama]

The left: pay more taxes to fund our idiocracy

also the left: yaayyy evil millionaires are leaving

Who do they think will replace the lost tax revenue? 

UK is cooked. 

[Sir Ralph]

 

 

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The left: pay more taxes to fund our idiocracy

also the left: yaayyy evil millionaires are leaving

Who do they think will replace the lost tax revenue? 

UK is cooked. 

The “magic money tree”

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Did you not read my post? He pays the equivalent of tens of thousands of workers worth of tax. 
 

How do you think that will impact your taxes? 

The Government of this country is by democracy, not plutocracy. That person's vote, assuming he is registered, counts exactly the same as mine or yours. He doesn't get multiple ballots because of his wealth. The Government's policies should not be bought by excessive wealth.

 

In any case, such people quite often up sticks and move elsewhere. That is their prerogative. 

[badgerx16]

29 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

We are losing millionaires and billionaires to places like Greece & Italy, due to our punishing taxes and badly run country. 
 

 

Not the better climate and Mediterranean diet ?

[iansums]

28 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The Government of this country is by democracy, not plutocracy. That person's vote, assuming he is registered, counts exactly the same as mine or yours. He doesn't get multiple ballots because of his wealth. The Government's policies should not be bought by excessive wealth.

 

In any case, such people quite often up sticks and move elsewhere. That is their prerogative. 

Where did Os mention anything about a person's vote? (not that I'm an expert on this). The point he is making is that increased taxes for the wealthy are counter-productive, they end up raising less revenue.

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, iansums said:

Where did Os mention anything about a person's vote? (not that I'm an expert on this). The point he is making is that increased taxes for the wealthy are counter-productive, they end up raising less revenue.

The implication is that the Government's tax plans should be determined, ar least in part, by the wishes of the largest payers. 

The reason that particular person is moving to Greece is that Greece is effectively bankrupt and is desperate for foreign investment, so they have capped the amount of tax a person has to pay on foreign sourced income at €100K .

Edited 11 hours ago by badgerx16

[iansums]

45 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The implication is that the Government's tax plans should be determined, ar least in part, by the wishes of the largest payers. 

The reason that particular person is moving to Greece is that Greece is effectively bankrupt and is desperate for foreign investment, so they have capped the amount of tax a person has to pay on foreign sourced income at €100K .

Not that I can read his mind but I don’t think he is implying that at all, in another post he mentions lost tax revenue. Tax plans should be determined by what’s best for the country and maximising revenue is a huge part of that.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, iansums said:

Not that I can read his mind but I don’t think he is implying that at all, in another post he mentions lost tax revenue. Tax plans should be determined by what’s best for the country and maximising revenue is a huge part of that.

Of course, but should the Government's policies be unduly influenced by the threat of a very wealthy individual leaving ? Is it not as likely that he is moving to Greece because of the €100K threshold, rather than any plans the CofE might be hatching ? These people are free to move themselves and their money to wherever they see an advantageous situation. It would be nice for them to move or stay here, but should Westminster prioritise enabling that over everything else ?

Edited 8 hours ago by badgerx16

[egg]

17 minutes ago, iansums said:

Not that I can read his mind but I don’t think he is implying that at all, in another post he mentions lost tax revenue. Tax plans should be determined by what’s best for the country and maximising revenue is a huge part of that.

I share your interpretation. Whilst I don't care much for the poster, it seemed  clear that he was referring to lost tax revenue from departing selfish greedy bastards. 

[iansums]

The Scottish government increased the higher tax rates only to find the overall tax revenue fall. This is problem with trying to tax those ‘wealthy bastards’ more.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Of course, but should the Government's policies be unduly influenced by the threat of a vey wealthy individuwl leaving ? Is it not as likely that he is moving to Greece because of the €100K threshold, rather than any plans the CofE might be hatching ? These people are free to move themselves and their money to wherever they see an advantageous situation. It would be nice for them to move or stay here, but should Westminster prioritise enabling that over everything else ?

So we need to reduce tax for billionaires to £100k PA then. What's the point in that, we'd still lose £329,900,000 in tax revenue in relation to this greedy cunt?

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

So we need to reduce tax for billionaires to £100k PA then. What's the point in that, we'd still lose £329,900,000 in tax revenue in relation to this greedy cunt?

You dont need to reduce it to £100k PA for them to stay, both the Tories and Labour needed to make the conditions more favourable. People that are established within a country dont want to leave unless they feel forced to and the balance of pros and cons is tilted to the extent that they decide they need to leave. Its never as black and white as saying we must match Greece.

The subsequent responses to @Osvaldorama are deflecting from the point he is making because people dont want to face the reality of the impact of left leaning policies like this. Calling them 'greedy bastards' is just immature when you will start to likely see a loss in tax revenue and, notwithstanding that, investment in our country from those people. It already has and will continue to result in tax rises for the remaining net givers and businesses who will have to (again) shoulder the burden, further disincentivising them. The whole strategy is very poorly thought out, despite having been proven again and again in other countries that taxing the wealthy does not to work in terms of increased tax revenues. Maybe those that support these policies could dip into their own pockets to fund the shortfall and save the rest of us the pain. Anyway, I thought we werent losing billionaires and millionaires anyway so this conversation surely isnt happening 🤣

Edited 8 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

You dont need to reduce it to £100k PA for them to stay, both the Tories and Labour needed to make the conditions more favourable. People that are established within a country dont want to leave unless they feel forced to and the balance of pros and cons is tilted to the extent that they decide they need to leave. Its never as black and white as saying we must match Greece.

The subsequent responses to @Osvaldorama are deflecting from the point he is making because people dont want to face the reality of the impact of left leaning policies like this. Calling them 'greedy bastards' is just immature when you will start to likely see a loss in tax revenue and, notwithstanding that, investment in our country from those people. It already has and will continue to result in tax rises for the remaining net givers and businesses who will have to (again) shoulder the burden, further disincentivising them. The whole strategy is very poorly thought out, despite having been proven again and again in other countries that taxing the wealthy does not to work in terms of increased tax revenues. Maybe those that support these policies could dip into their own pockets to fund the shortfall and save the rest of us the pain. Anyway, I thought we werent losing billionaires and millionaires anyway so this conversation surely isnt happening 🤣

Spot on. Did you know there isn’t even a millionaire left in NewYork now, let alone a billionaire since Mamdani took over as mayor? They all fled to Akansas and Wyoming

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

So we need to reduce tax for billionaires to £100k PA then. What's the point in that, we'd still lose £329,900,000 in tax revenue in relation to this greedy cunt?

£100,000 is better than nothing.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

£100,000 is better than nothing.

No it's not, because one billionaire staying would pay off every single billionaire that leaves.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Spot on. Did you know there isn’t even a millionaire left in NewYork now, let alone a billionaire since Mamdani took over as mayor? They all fled to Akansas and Wyoming

Please stop quoting him, I like not seeing his gaslighting bullshit.

No one ever said they weren't leaving. We said they weren't leaving at a significantly larger rate to what they have done in the past or anymore than other societies (for example the US). 

They are moving to low tax societies where they can get away with paying nothing or next to nothing. Nowt we can do about that.

[Sir Ralph]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Please stop quoting him, I like not seeing his gaslighting bullshit.

No one ever said they weren't leaving. We said they weren't leaving at a significantly larger rate to what they have done in the past or anymore than other societies (for example the US). 

They are moving to low tax societies where they can get away with paying nothing or next to nothing. Nowt we can do about that.

Nothing we can do about it? How about changing policy direction!
 

Contrary to your unevidenced assumption,  we now have the lowest number of millionaires in the uk for the past two decades with a key factor being their emigration, due to government policy.  https://www.adamsmith.org/press-releases/number-of-uk-millionaires-at-lowest-level-since-global-financial-crisis

.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph