Guest Saints News Update Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 MARK Wotte said last nightâ??s 1-1 draw was not a setback in Saintsâ?? battle for survival. More... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 where has this fella bin all season [not a set back?] HUG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 i think last night could well be a point gained rather than 2 lost. Derby are on good form and passed the ball well in first half and we were lucky not to lose it when they hit the post. To play badly and not lose for us is a good point. QPR is a different matter altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Not a set back? Leading 1 nil until the 83rd minute only to end up drawing AT HOME isn't a set back? Last night was a major set back imo. If Saturday wasn't win or bust before last night it most certainly is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Lets hope he's right - Saturday will be a telling game that may well determine the fate of the club. QPR lost last night - it's the right time to put in a top performance - anything else and I feel we're definately done for as even a draw with other teams around us winning will leave too much to do. Saturday really is last chance time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Hoof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Not a set back? Leading 1 nil until the 83rd minute only to end up drawing AT HOME isn't a set back? Last night was a major set back imo. If Saturday wasn't win or bust before last night it most certainly is now. Agreed. And do you not agree also that it was a bit strange - no stupid - playing for a 1-0 win by bringing on Wotton when we had them on the back-foot? For me that decision almost lost us the game and once again gives me some doubt over the tactical nouse these Dutch guys have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 MARK Wotte said last nightâ??s 1-1 draw was not a setback in Saintsâ?? battle for survival. More... Then Wotte is a moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Hoof......not the best game for Wotte to have his father over to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Agreed. And do you not agree also that it was a bit strange - no stupid - playing for a 1-0 win by bringing on Wotton when we had them on the back-foot? For me that decision almost lost us the game and once again gives me some doubt over the tactical nouse these Dutch guys have. What all Dutch guys? The Dutch race as a whole are lacking in tactical nous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Pretty stupid comment really as we dropped to second to bottom behind Norwich and we could have been third on goal difference only to Barnsley. We have got to stand behind the guy as we only have 1 starting 11 and you cannot blame him for Surman's dreadful miss and the rest of the dire midfield performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Pretty stupid comment really as we dropped to second to bottom behind Norwich and we could have been third on goal difference only to Barnsley. We have got to stand behind the guy as we only have 1 starting 11 and you cannot blame him for Surman's dreadful miss and the rest of the dire midfield performances. We can blame him for the substitution that changed our formation, presumably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I think its the fact that we didn't lose again after the Brum match that means this isn't a setback. In all honesty if you look at the results Derby have had over the past weeks then a 1-1 draw would have been a good result before the match. Ofcourse the late equalizer was a setback but that doesn't mean the result is. At least we didn't lose two in a row, something that I think would have been hard to come back from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 What all Dutch guys? The Dutch race as a whole are lacking in tactical nous? You need to read a little more carefully my friend - I did not state ALL Dutch guys - just the two that we've had the misfortune to endure at SMS. It's pretty clear what I meant - why are you so intent on baiting instead of discussing the subject properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 When we relegate - will we all call for Wotte's head alone? Or will we call for Lowe's AND Wotte's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 When we relegate - will we all call for Wotte's head alone? Or will we call for Lowe's AND Wotte's? Lowe must fall on his sword. With Wotte I think it depends on how we go down. We've had a couple of good results but I've also seen some worrying decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 When we relegate Anyone else shudder at this weird usage of the word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 MARK Wotte said last nightâ??s 1-1 draw was not a setback in Saintsâ?? battle for survival. More... You only have to read the fans reactions to that article on the Echo website to realise how many fans think this chap is on another planet. I still can't forgive Wotte for his footballing direction that led up to his appointment of coach. Wotte and Lowe have nearly destroyed this club. I want both out regardless what happens at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 You only have to read the fans reactions to that article on the Echo website to realise how many fans think this chap is on another planet. I still can't forgive Wotte for his footballing direction that led up to his appointment of coach. Wotte and Lowe have nearly destroyed this club. I want both out regardless what happens at the end of the season.If Wotte keeps us up it wil be down to a very good manager who has got the fight back in the squad. To then discard him is madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 We can blame him for the substitution that changed our formation, presumably? Do you think that putting Wotton on changed the game? Not the casre that Derby had 3 very good players who changed th flow of the game. Please do not tell me that Surman going off changed the game as that is not as i see it. AS had a poor game and putting on another defensive mifdfielder wasthe right decision.Saga should have been substituted as well as he was ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Do you think that putting Wotton on changed the game? Not the casre that Derby had 3 very good players who changed th flow of the game. Please do not tell me that Surman going off changed the game as that is not as i see it. AS had a poor game and putting on another defensive mifdfielder wasthe right decision.Saga should have been substituted as well as he was ineffective. I thought that it changed the whole shape of our team. We were a complete mess just before they scored. There were players out of position which lead to misplaced passes and poor defensive midfield cover. Their fellow who put in the ball that Davies scored from was under no pressure at all. We had lost any width that we had before and we had reverted to playing schoolboy football. Also what I didn't see last night was the defending from the front that was so evident against Cardiff and Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 If Wotte keeps us up it wil be down to a very good manager who has got the fight back in the squad. To then discard him is madness. I dunno Nick, I just can't stand listening to him have a go at the fans and to be honest I hear that the improvement may be more to do with senior players like Wotton firing up the team. If he keeps us up I will be impressed but still won't want him here. There are many British managers out there who IMHO are far better than the Youth Football engineer. Any football professional who could show that much foolishness and tell Lowe youth total football could work is either mad or incompetent or just out for himself. Frankly there are better options out there IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I dunno Nick, I just can't stand listening to him have a go at the fans and to be honest I hear that the improvement may be more to do with senior players like Wotton firing up the team. If he keeps us up I will be impressed but still won't want him here. There are many British managers out there who IMHO are far better than the Youth Football engineer. Any football professional who could show that much foolishness and tell Lowe youth total football could work is either mad or incompetent or just out for himself. Frankly there are better options out there IMHO. I am not sure that is all completely true, i agree that perhaps his vision may have been a little misguided however have you never bigged yourself up slightly in an interview or perhaps approached a project with the attitude of 'yeah i can do this' in an attempt to win a contract etc ? Personally i believe that yes there are definately better options out there as far as coaching staff are concerned but then also there is playing staff ?? The problem was a lack of funds and that Lowe obviously believed it could be done. Ultimately he is the chairman who should be looking to steer the club upwards and not giving time to bad ideas. A bad decision unfortunately but he seems to have turned a corner, we have had some fantastic results, stability and a better will from what i have seen and i for one have a bit of belief back, lets not look further than the end of the season yet as we don't know where we will be. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I am not sure that is all completely true, i agree that perhaps his vision may have been a little misguided however have you never bigged yourself up slightly in an interview or perhaps approached a project with the attitude of 'yeah i can do this' in an attempt to win a contract etc ? Personally i believe that yes there are definately better options out there as far as coaching staff are concerned but then also there is playing staff ?? The problem was a lack of funds and that Lowe obviously believed it could be done. Ultimately he is the chairman who should be looking to steer the club upwards and not giving time to bad ideas. A bad decision unfortunately but he seems to have turned a corner, we have had some fantastic results, stability and a better will from what i have seen and i for one have a bit of belief back, lets not look further than the end of the season yet as we don't know where we will be. :confused: 'A little misguided'? We are going to be relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I am not sure that is all completely true, i agree that perhaps his vision may have been a little misguided however have you never bigged yourself up slightly in an interview or perhaps approached a project with the attitude of 'yeah i can do this' in an attempt to win a contract etc ? Personally i believe that yes there are definately better options out there as far as coaching staff are concerned but then also there is playing staff ?? The problem was a lack of funds and that Lowe obviously believed it could be done. Ultimately he is the chairman who should be looking to steer the club upwards and not giving time to bad ideas. A bad decision unfortunately but he seems to have turned a corner, we have had some fantastic results, stability and a better will from what i have seen and i for one have a bit of belief back, lets not look further than the end of the season yet as we don't know where we will be. :confused: good post but it seems some posters want to dwell on the negatives , points dropped at home against derby but points gained away at ipswich when most expected defeat,i still believe we can get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Do you think that putting Wotton on changed the game? Not the casre that Derby had 3 very good players who changed th flow of the game. Please do not tell me that Surman going off changed the game as that is not as i see it. AS had a poor game and putting on another defensive mifdfielder wasthe right decision.Saga should have been substituted as well as he was ineffective. :confused: If it was the right decision, then surely we would have won the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Anyone else shudder at this weird usage of the word? Yes. What's wrong with "when we are relegated"? Although I'm still holding out a hope that we won't be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 We can blame him for the substitution that changed our formation, presumably? I did not think the formation was at fault, I did not think we had much real shape all night not helped by the fact that we seemed totally unable to find our team mates with a pass. I felt sorry for Euell and Saga some of the balls they received were terrible - overhit underhit - nothing down the channels. I think Wotte had to change it and it did not work. Its the comment that I challenge I thought we had moved on from his earlier gaffe comments or 'wottisms' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Maybe, and at this point probably yeah. All i was doing was pointing out who in my opinion the failure has come from. If you hire somebody that is incompetant at the job and then he goes on to ruin your business then yeah ok he has some blame but overall you should never have put him in that position in the first place. Don't get me wrong i am not really anti-lowe/not pro-lowe not really anything lowe, as far as i can see there is nothing we can do. All i was saying was that ok, i think the man is arrogant and perhaps not got the credentials but he is doing far better than anyone else has done this season, christ even Burley left us in the crap and his previous credentials weren't too shabby. Wotte has not done this to our football club it is the people that should be looking after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Maybe, and at this point probably yeah. All i was doing was pointing out who in my opinion the failure has come from. If you hire somebody that is incompetant at the job and then he goes on to ruin your business then yeah ok he has some blame but overall you should never have put him in that position in the first place. Don't get me wrong i am not really anti-lowe/not pro-lowe not really anything lowe, as far as i can see there is nothing we can do. All i was saying was that ok, i think the man is arrogant and perhaps not got the credentials but he is doing far better than anyone else has done this season, christ even Burley left us in the crap and his previous credentials weren't too shabby. Wotte has not done this to our football club it is the people that should be looking after it. I agree - Lowe is to blame and must be evicted. We can remove him by protesting - it worked last time and will again. But Wotte is Lowe's man and I think when Lowe is thrown out so will Wotte anyway. But I think Wotte has to share a large part of the blame - he was the one who told Lowe that this daft youth policy would work. In many ways he is more to blame albeit Lowe made the decision to run with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 When we relegate - will we all call for Wotte's head alone? Or will we call for Lowe's AND Wotte's? he is doing better with less resources and worse starting position than NP and we all -me included wished he stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelkel31 Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Do you think that putting Wotton on changed the game? Not the casre that Derby had 3 very good players who changed th flow of the game. Please do not tell me that Surman going off changed the game as that is not as i see it. AS had a poor game and putting on another defensive mifdfielder wasthe right decision.Saga should have been substituted as well as he was ineffective. i hate to have to agree with nick so wholeheartedly but i do. I thought that it changed the whole shape of our team. We were a complete mess just before they scored. There were players out of position which lead to misplaced passes and poor defensive midfield cover. Their fellow who put in the ball that Davies scored from was under no pressure at all. We had lost any width that we had before and we had reverted to playing schoolboy football. Also what I didn't see last night was the defending from the front that was so evident against Cardiff and Preston. the problem was not that it changed the shape of the team, but that it was changed both in the wrong way and far to late. clough earned his money last night as there five man midfield totally dominated the first 75mins. they had 1 big lump up front who was well marshalled and we didnt have the quility to go 3 at the back and match them in midfield. this combined with the front 5 being very poor resulted in a draw being quite lucky in the end(not that either team deserved to win really) as surman missed a sitter, they changed to 4-4-2 and it was obvious that 1 goal wasnt going to be enough. as for wottes coment, my 2 cents is that it is to do with what he predicted the results to be when he took over, this being a draw would be a fair prediction, and id guess that the results so far would be on par with his points prediction, we can do nothing about the pathetic teams at the top who dont want to go in the premier league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 he is doing better with less resources and worse starting position than NP and we all -me included wished he stayed. I'm not sure he is. When you assess that he was effectively JPs boss and has been in charge of football ALL season as a result. Depends on your viewpoint, mine is that Wotte has been involved all season - not just now as coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I'm not sure he is. When you assess that he was effectively JPs boss and has been in charge of football ALL season as a result. Depends on your viewpoint, mine is that Wotte has been involved all season - not just now as coach. apologies you had answered with your views further down the thread. Depends on how much day to day influence he actually had -presumably even if you accept he was the boss -which is by no means clear - he wasn't picking the team or doing team talks or on the bench, nor would you have wanted him to. If, big if IMHO, your assessment is right the fact that he failed as director of football but then does ok as manager/coach do you sack him due to how he did in his previous job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Agreed. And do you not agree also that it was a bit strange - no stupid - playing for a 1-0 win by bringing on Wotton when we had them on the back-foot? For me that decision almost lost us the game and once again gives me some doubt over the tactical nouse these Dutch guys have. Agree with this. I really don't understand why when we have a 1 goal lead nearing the end of a game, Wotte (and several others before him) decide to change things by going defensive. It basically signals clearly to the opposition, hey guys, we are really worried about conceding now, so come on, get at us and see if you can score. Defensively we are still naive, though clearly we have improved from JP's time (and even BUrley, Dodd and Gorman's times as well). We do not have the type of defence that is rock solid and can be relied upon to hold on to a lead. Although I wouldn't go as far as Kevin Keegan used to, I still believe that the best form of defence is attack, and that good defending starts up front. If you have earned a 1-0 lead by using an attacking formation, the chances are that changing that formation can often lead to losing that advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Agree with this. I really don't understand why when we have a 1 goal lead nearing the end of a game, Wotte (and several others before him) decide to change things by going defensive. It basically signals clearly to the opposition, hey guys, we are really worried about conceding now, so come on, get at us and see if you can score. Defensively we are still naive, though clearly we have improved from JP's time (and even BUrley, Dodd and Gorman's times as well). We do not have the type of defence that is rock solid and can be relied upon to hold on to a lead. Although I wouldn't go as far as Kevin Keegan used to, I still believe that the best form of defence is attack, and that good defending starts up front. If you have earned a 1-0 lead by using an attacking formation, the chances are that changing that formation can often lead to losing that advantage. think we were struggling to attack due to being out muscled and Surman not only having off game but visibly being down after the bad miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 Agree with this. I really don't understand why when we have a 1 goal lead nearing the end of a game, Wotte (and several others before him) decide to change things by going defensive. It basically signals clearly to the opposition, hey guys, we are really worried about conceding now, so come on, get at us and see if you can score. Defensively we are still naive, though clearly we have improved from JP's time (and even BUrley, Dodd and Gorman's times as well). We do not have the type of defence that is rock solid and can be relied upon to hold on to a lead. Although I wouldn't go as far as Kevin Keegan used to, I still believe that the best form of defence is attack, and that good defending starts up front. If you have earned a 1-0 lead by using an attacking formation, the chances are that changing that formation can often lead to losing that advantage.Vectis to be fair it worked against Preston and Cardiff. The problem was more last night wherer the forwards couldnt defend from the front and the ball didnt stick up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 :confused: If it was the right decision, then surely we would have won the game?We may have lost keeping the other formation.We were under pressure before Wotton came on.They brought on 3 quality players who changed the flow and we couldnt cope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 apologies you had answered with your views further down the thread. Depends on how much day to day influence he actually had -presumably even if you accept he was the boss -which is by no means clear - he wasn't picking the team or doing team talks or on the bench, nor would you have wanted him to. If, big if IMHO, your assessment is right the fact that he failed as director of football but then does ok as manager/coach do you sack him due to how he did in his previous job? I think you do. I sack failures because failure is generally habitual, and its habitual due to lack of talent or ability. In sport there is no difference, in fact it should be more ruthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 March, 2009 Share Posted 11 March, 2009 I think you do. I sack failures because failure is generally habitual, and its habitual due to lack of talent or ability. In sport there is no difference, in fact it should be more ruthless.Are you for real? I thought you didnt like RL as he sacked loads of managers with other things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 12 March, 2009 Share Posted 12 March, 2009 I think you do. I sack failures because failure is generally habitual, and its habitual due to lack of talent or ability. In sport there is no difference, in fact it should be more ruthless. we should have sacked that WGS because he previuosly failed at Coventry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 March, 2009 Share Posted 12 March, 2009 Are you for real? I thought you didnt like RL as he sacked loads of managers with other things LOL 'with other things' lol I have been totally behind consistency in managerial appointments for years Nick. But not this time. Please get me any half decent manager currently unemployed at the end of the season - one who doesnt slag the fans off for not being real fans would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 March, 2009 Share Posted 12 March, 2009 we should have sacked that WGS because he previuosly failed at Coventry But he didnt here did he. Wotte started the season as the man who told Lowe total football with kids would work...mmmmm incompetence perhaps? Football professional?! Barking conman more like. He has to be held accountable for this whole season - not just his 5 mins in charge at the end...IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 12 March, 2009 Share Posted 12 March, 2009 But he didnt here did he. Wotte started the season as the man who told Lowe total football with kids would work...mmmmm incompetence perhaps? Football professional?! Barking conman more like. He has to be held accountable for this whole season - not just his 5 mins in charge at the end...IMHO think he has said he was saying the opposite, appreciate you may say he is lying but where us there anything that actually says he had influence, day to day on first team? Certainly never saw him near team at St Marys. Just him on how he does as manager (pretty good so far) rather than writing him off purely cos you dislike lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 13 March, 2009 Share Posted 13 March, 2009 Up until the Preston game we had once at home all season.It was hard to believe that we were going to win 7 on the trot at home considering how things had been before. I think it was a positive point the other night. They were a big side that we struggled to break down. They are in good form themselves and as much as we had a chance to go 2 - nil up we could also have easily lost the game. So all in all we are three unbeaten and if we can win three of the next four at home and draw the other one we will be getting close. I'm pretty sure we will pick up more points on our travels as we have been v good away from home this season. If it was n't for our away form we would be dead and buried by now so come on lets take the positive out of Wednesday and make sure the unbeaten run at SMS contiues on Saturday! COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 13 March, 2009 Share Posted 13 March, 2009 Up until the Preston game we had once at home all season.It was hard to believe that we were going to win 7 on the trot at home considering how things had been before. I think it was a positive point the other night. They were a big side that we struggled to break down. They are in good form themselves and as much as we had a chance to go 2 - nil up we could also have easily lost the game. So all in all we are three unbeaten and if we can win three of the next four at home and draw the other one we will be getting close. I'm pretty sure we will pick up more points on our travels as we have been v good away from home this season. If it was n't for our away form we would be dead and buried by now so come on lets take the positive out of Wednesday and make sure the unbeaten run at SMS contiues on Saturday! COYR great realistic post IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 13 March, 2009 Share Posted 13 March, 2009 he is doing better with less resources and worse starting position than NP and we all -me included wished he stayed. No you didn't ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 March, 2009 Share Posted 13 March, 2009 No you didn't ! oh yes I did! like all was positive after last game of season and looking forward to seeing how he would take us forward with a preseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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