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View Full Version : Rant of the week: The death of music.



scotty
28-02-2013, 05:26 PM
This is brilliant. Someone posted it this morning, I couldn't agree with him more.

Years ago popular music mattered. It really did. Earnest young and even slightly older music fans would make their way to record shops and spend an awfully long time making a choice. They had to make a choice because they couldn't have it all. Which LP or single to choose? Having made a commitment based upon both time and money spent, the excited fan would get the bus home with their prized possession. Once home the circle of vinyl would be taken out of its sleeve with extreme caution, placed on the turntable carefully, and with the skill of a surgeon , the needle would be lowered. Then side one would be listened to, without skipping a track. This method meant the listener would hear the artist's statement the way the artist wanted it heard. By employing this method every time they listened to the waxing, often the listener would find themselves enjoying a track they, upon first hearing, didn't like. Then the compact disc meant the music fan could effortlessly skip tracks and even-according to the lying ****s on Tomorrows World-put jam on their purchase. The Caring About Music Rot had set in. Then the super markets got their sticky fingers in on the act. And what were they stocking? Strictly best selling stuff. And bored housewives would casually pick a C*ntzone or C*nt That CD up with the weekly shop, to be listened to twice then forgotten about. This meant that sh*tty, pointless Bay City Roller type sh*te suddenly had an extended shelf life and hung around like Savile at a toddler's autopsy, rather than fading into obscurity as they once would have. Because previously the bored housewife would never have made the effort to visit an actual record store, because she doesn't really care for music( do you?). Then came Pop Idol et al and then MUSIC WAS FREE. Yes people could demonstrate their utter lack of commitment or care for the music they listened to by not even leaving their house, or paying for it. So now I've ended up in the situation where the HMV in my town will probably close and the independent stores f*cked off and died years ago. Now all the downloaders will smugly claim that they were "sticking it to the man" by not giving their cash to the greedy record companies. In reality they were sticking it to the shop assistants who lost their jobs, the unsigned acts who were ignored as the record companies played safe and people like me, who really don't want to shop on line. The greedy c*nts in charge of the record companies are still wadded. And if you've ever wondered why a ticket for a gig now costs a kidney, since the collapse of record sales, how else can a rock star pay for his coke habit. Apologies for the length of this whine, but look forward to next weeks exciting explanation of how Viagra laid the fluffers off.

Lord Duckhunter
28-02-2013, 05:58 PM
Music is one of the most important unimportant things in my life, but I never get sentimental about shops or the charts ECT. Personally, I've got into a lot of stuff via YouTube and other such media. I didn't want my parents ramming their music and how they listened to it down my throat so ain't going to be doing so to my kids. I think downloads are far better than 33/45's or cd's, and if it means skipping revolution number 9 or yellow submarine, then that a bonus.

There has always been shiete music, even in the great years of '68-'77. I hate modern music , but in a way that's great. My grandparents hated jerry lee Lewis, my dad hated my music. Part of what makes music great and fresh, is that old fossils like me dont get it.

saintfully
28-02-2013, 07:53 PM
Music is one of the most important unimportant things in my life, but I never get sentimental about shops or the charts ECT. Personally, I've got into a lot of stuff via YouTube and other such media. I didn't want my parents ramming their music and how they listened to it down my throat so ain't going to be doing so to my kids. I think downloads are far better than 33/45's or cd's, and if it means skipping revolution number 9 or yellow submarine, then that a bonus.

There has always been shiete music, even in the great years of '68-'77. I hate modern music , but in a way that's great. My grandparents hated jerry lee Lewis, my dad hated my music. Part of what makes music great and fresh, is that old fossils like me dont get it.

Meh, you don't get it though do you.

dubai_phil
28-02-2013, 08:49 PM
The local Virgin MegaStore now has a large selection of Vinyl on sale.

They are also selling tickets to a gig tomorrow night - 80's Rewind starring Rick Astley, ABC, Heaven 17, Howard Jones & T'Pau.

Of those, the only one I would call a real Musician is Jones, having seen him play an unplugged gig about 5 years ago which we STILL rate as one of the best gigs in a pub we have ever seen.

Don't blame CD's & Downloads.

Blame Stock Aitken & Waterman

Seaford Saint
28-02-2013, 10:53 PM
I think the OP is on to something. I speak as someone who has spent 1000's on hifi and music....I still love it. I have wandered around the HMV in Newbury as it sells off everything. I do feel really sad to see the shop being dismantled stripped etc. The youngsters will find other pastimes and my son will be playing Led Zep, Clapton etc As there isn't much of quality around any more.

Ohio Saint
28-02-2013, 11:38 PM
I was just thinking about this last night as I was trying to get to sleep! Then I fell asleep. It turns out I bored myself into a coma with the subject.

I don't know what it's like really for younger people today with their music choices available. All I do know is that so many kids today really do appreciate many of the old classic bands like Floyd, Zep etc.....So I can only assume there is either something so bad about new music that the kids aren't rebelling against the old stuff, or they are so well adjusted today that they can keep their minds open to older stuff better than my generation did.

dubai_phil
01-03-2013, 05:46 AM
I was just thinking about this last night as I was trying to get to sleep! Then I fell asleep. It turns out I bored myself into a coma with the subject.

I don't know what it's like really for younger people today with their music choices available. All I do know is that so many kids today really do appreciate many of the old classic bands like Floyd, Zep etc.....So I can only assume there is either something so bad about new music that the kids aren't rebelling against the old stuff, or they are so well adjusted today that they can keep their minds open to older stuff better than my generation did.

Also, with so many Apps etc available these days, kids are able to make their own music OR their own remixes etc as easily (for them) as we can read a Rallyboy missive on PTS

While there is One Direction everywhere (perhaps these days the only people who buy music are kids with their pocket money the rest of us find it free on You Tube) or leave MTV/VH1 on or have the Internet Radio playing at home instead of albums. In fact with the internet & Satellite TV maybe we simply don't sit down of an evening to listen to an album like we used to. In fact how many of us now have "Music Listening" systems rather than TV Sound Systems...

One thing I have noticed (maybe because I am over here) is that the much maligned "Stadium Rock/Glam Rock" of the 70's/early 80's is popular - luckily I hear as much Journey or Boston when I travel around as I do One Direction. At the Slash gig 3 weeks ago the average age of the audience was mid twenties (with a few old farts scattered around) & when Alice Cooper came on stage they really did go nuts (and it is still a bigger conversation topic than The Stone Roses gig for example)

Simon Cowell is very clever. Kids pay for their new music, they have their Iphones now. When we were their age we had to save for a month to buy an album, or wait for the weekend to buy a new single. Kids today get it now. We had the joy of anticipation, they are the wannitnow generation.

Anyways, want to watch real music? Go see The Zucchinis somewhere in the South of England. The more Vodka/Beer they (and you) drink, the better they are with their post-punk rock covers mix.

hutch
01-03-2013, 07:01 AM
My grandparents hated jerry lee Lewis,
Ouch. That one hurt.

alpine_saint
01-03-2013, 09:24 AM
Not fair to blame the development of the CD, imo. There is still an element of collectability and excitement about them similar to vinyl, imo.

However, I DO blame:

Apple
Amazon
The likes of Simon Cowell
The likes of Stock Aitken Waterman
The Internet

saint si
01-03-2013, 09:36 AM
Not fair to blame the development of the CD, imo. There is still an element of collectability and excitement about them similar to vinyl, imo.

Absolutely! The first few sentences of the OP are exactly how I used to buy music ... but on CD.

I still do if I can, though the likes of HMV seems to not actually stock music any more... Especially listening to the whole album - as the artist intended - several times over, before deciding what the standout tracks are...

Hit upon an interesting conclusion the other day. The new methods for releasing music (i.e. digital) do create more propensity for bite-size consumption, but they also offer real artists the ability to create music that is unbounded by the constraints of physical media.

KelvinsRightGlove
01-03-2013, 10:00 AM
Blah blah blah, it was better in my day, blah blah, whinge moan whinge. Things are changing, I don't like change, it was better when I was a kid.

I don't know how many times I have to make the same points, but times change, people change, habits change - companies HAVE to adapt to this.

It's all very well mourning the loss of the record store, and blaming it on the internet, but really, they were in decline well before limewire, napster, kazaa, the pirate bay etc came around.

They had been on a down-ward spiral for a good few years before this. Mostly because they hadn't changed at all for 40ish years. How many other shops stay in business doing exactly the same thing.

I don't get why being able to listen to and consume any music, any where you want is a bad thing. Or how it is killing music?

Surely, from a bands point of view, you want your music to be as accessible as possible. So surely, the prospect of MP3s or streaming services such as spotify, where you are effectively carrying around a humongous library of records around in your pocket, meaning you are a few clicks away from a lot of music is a good thing.

It certainly places no restriction on what you listen to, if anything it gives a chance to more left-field bands. You have the option to listen to a band and see if you like them, where as previously you were tied to paying for one single vinyl, which ultimately leads people to make safe choices, instead of trying new things.

In fact, many people I know (myself included) have actually started to buy more music as a result of things like youtube and Spotify, where they can get into a band, and then support bands they like as records are released.

The internet provides a fantastic platform for bands who would never otherwise get exposure on TV, Radio or pathetic rags like the NME.

Bury your heads in the sand, and mourn for times gone by if you want. But the reason these shops are closing is, if we are blunt, the fault of themselves and their own customers that stopped going, and now hark on about how great they were.

lifeintheslowlane
01-03-2013, 10:15 AM
OK my big rant is cover bands. I saw someone write the other day that they went to see Australian Pink Floyd..."They were as good as the real thing." NO THEY F***ING WEREN'T!! If you can't tell the difference between innovation and imitation you don't deserve to see the real thing. They just don't get it.:rolleyes:

dubai_phil
01-03-2013, 10:17 AM
Blah blah blah, it was better in my day, blah blah, whinge moan whinge. Things are changing, I don't like change, it was better when I was a kid.

I don't know how many times I have to make the same points, but times change, people change, habits change - companies HAVE to adapt to this.

It's all very well mourning the loss of the record store, and blaming it on the internet, but really, they were in decline well before limewire, napster, kazaa, the pirate bay etc came around.

They had been on a down-ward spiral for a good few years before this. Mostly because they hadn't changed at all for 40ish years. How many other shops stay in business doing exactly the same thing.

I don't get why being able to listen to and consume any music, any where you want is a bad thing. Or how it is killing music?

Surely, from a bands point of view, you want your music to be as accessible as possible. So surely, the prospect of MP3s or streaming services such as spotify, where you are effectively carrying around a humongous library of records around in your pocket, meaning you are a few clicks away from a lot of music is a good thing.

It certainly places no restriction on what you listen to, if anything it gives a chance to more left-field bands. You have the option to listen to a band and see if you like them, where as previously you were tied to paying for one single vinyl, which ultimately leads people to make safe choices, instead of trying new things.

In fact, many people I know (myself included) have actually started to buy more music as a result of things like youtube and Spotify, where they can get into a band, and then support bands they like as records are released.

The internet provides a fantastic platform for bands who would never otherwise get exposure on TV, Radio or pathetic rags like the NME.

Bury your heads in the sand, and mourn for times gone by if you want. But the reason these shops are closing is, if we are blunt, the fault of themselves and their own customers that stopped going, and now hark on about how great they were.

Good point well made about the internet

My youngest formed an Emo band while at school. They found a mate who had a home studio system and recorded what in the old days would have been called a "garage" album. They stuck it on Audiostreet and made it into the top 10 in their genre. That summer they got a record deal from an Indy label in the UK, recorded the album then grew up.... well they all went to different Uni's so never took it further. Point being they got their without A&R or demo tapes.

Locally (as I have mentioned before) we have a couple of lads (one's a Saints fan) who have got together, recorded some club type stuff and bingo, they got signed by EMI, released their first single which has been #1 on Itunes in the whole damned region, has reached playlist #1 in UAE & Lebanon and this week they've been filming their first Video & putting down some more tracks for their first album.

EMI intend to inflict it on you lot in time for the summer clubbing season, but it has already been picked up and remixed by a number of "names"

Again for them it totally would not have been possible without FB & Twitter. They pinged the song out on Social Media, got their mates up and retweeting, sharing etc and woosh.

It's actually alright if you're plastered in a club, hum along to on the radion but ain't gonna be on any "epic" cult album.

KelvinsRightGlove
01-03-2013, 10:26 AM
OK my big rant is cover bands. I saw someone write the other day that they went to see Australian Pink Floyd..."They were as good as the real thing." NO THEY F***ING WEREN'T!! If you can't tell the difference between innovation and imitation you don't deserve to see the real thing. They just don't get it.:rolleyes:

It's interesting though. I have been toying with this myself of late.

Should music die with it's author? For example, should Beatles songs never be played live, simply because half the band are dead?

I think as long as a band is not trying to pass off these songs as their own, why should they not keep this music alive, and introduce it to new audiences? It seems a shame to me that in say, 50 years, kids won't have any hope of seeing these songs played live.

It only really seems to be an issue for 'guitar' music as it were.

Jazz musicians seem to have no problem with it, or Pop. And who in the classical realm is going to turn around and say "nah, actually I don't fancy going to see the 'x' Philharmonic play Beethoven, it isn't him".

lifeintheslowlane
01-03-2013, 11:02 AM
It's interesting though. I have been toying with this myself of late.

Should music die with it's author? For example, should Beatles songs never be played live, simply because half the band are dead?

I think as long as a band is not trying to pass off these songs as their own, why should they not keep this music alive, and introduce it to new audiences? It seems a shame to me that in say, 50 years, kids won't have any hope of seeing these songs played live.

It only really seems to be an issue for 'guitar' music as it were.

Jazz musicians seem to have no problem with it, or Pop. And who in the classical realm is going to turn around and say "nah, actually I don't fancy going to see the 'x' Philharmonic play Beethoven, it isn't him".

I'm not saying others shouldn't play their music...I have no objection with other artists interpreting other artists music but to hear it played note for note without the element of spontaneity is riding on the back of others. Play your own music...add a few covers, your own interpretations, as you say Jazz musicians do it very successfully. As for dressing and trying to look like the original bands too...don't get me started.

I suppose I'm lamenting the lack of opportunities in medium sized local clubs to give opportunities to new artists like the original Concorde Club did when I was a youngster. You turned up to hear a new band...you didn't know what you were going to hear...it was exciting. Some good, some not so, some became legends...I don't see it happening in this city anymore...tribute bands exist to pay bills for artists and promoters.

KelvinsRightGlove
01-03-2013, 11:45 AM
I'm not saying others shouldn't play their music...I have no objection with other artists interpreting other artists music but to hear it played note for note without the element of spontaneity is riding on the back of others. Play your own music...add a few covers, your own interpretations, as you say Jazz musicians do it very successfully. As for dressing and trying to look like the original bands too...don't get me started.

I suppose I'm lamenting the lack of opportunities in medium sized local clubs to give opportunities to new artists like the original Concorde Club did when I was a youngster. You turned up to hear a new band...you didn't know what you were going to hear...it was exciting. Some good, some not so, some became legends...I don't see it happening in this city anymore...tribute bands exist to pay bills for artists and promoters.

Hmmmm.

I'm still torn on this myself.

I think what you are saying is fair, and you make the point well. But I still think to deprive people of hearing music live, as it was originally intended to be heard is a shame.

For example, at Glasto I once wondered into a tent where the Bootleg Beatles were playing. I sat down, had a smoke, and enjoyed the show. Little in the way of innovation, but it was a group of talented musicians, putting their heart into songs they were clearly very passionate about. Obviously, being a Beatles fan, I was hardly going to run home screaming with excitement about this new band, but equally, I very much enjoyed the show, and due to me only being in my early 20's, this is about as close as I will ever get to the real thing.

I dunno, I guess I'm just thinking out loud (as it were). As I say, I'm kinda torn on the whole issue.

FWIW, the music scene really isn't dead. There is some really great bands around at the moment, and plenty of great dance/electro stuff around, although it's not necessarily 'my bag'. I'd actually argue the music coming out of Britain at the minute is as good as it has been for quite some time.

buctootim
01-03-2013, 12:12 PM
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3334/3245193265_826fd85967.jpg


Im not sure what the issue is. In the 1960s and 70s there was little money, less to do and almost no popular culture on the tv. Playing in a band was a free form of excitement and entertainment.People have so many more other options now and with 50 odd years back catalogue of 'pop' music - more than you could ever listen to - less need for new stuff. New live music is just much less important to people than it used to be.

lifeintheslowlane
01-03-2013, 12:20 PM
Hmmmm.

I'm still torn on this myself.

I think what you are saying is fair, and you make the point well. But I still think to deprive people of hearing music live, as it was originally intended to be heard is a shame.

For example, at Glasto I once wondered into a tent where the Bootleg Beatles were playing. I sat down, had a smoke, and enjoyed the show. Little in the way of innovation, but it was a group of talented musicians, putting their heart into songs they were clearly very passionate about. Obviously, being a Beatles fan, I was hardly going to run home screaming with excitement about this new band, but equally, I very much enjoyed the show, and due to me only being in my early 20's, this is about as close as I will ever get to the real thing.

I dunno, I guess I'm just thinking out loud (as it were). As I say, I'm kinda torn on the whole issue.

FWIW, the music scene really isn't dead. There is some really great bands around at the moment, and plenty of great dance/electro stuff around, although it's not necessarily 'my bag'. I'd actually argue the music coming out of Britain at the minute is as good as it has been for quite some time.

Well I'm in my early '60s and I did see a lot of these artists in their prime...not making a big deal of that...just my era. However I've kept on listening to new music and live bands because it's what moves me...I'm always excited to discover new music and then go and see it live. I suppose a rant is just that...it's what irritates you and what irritates me is having to go to Brighton or London to see bands I like because the local clubs don't book what I want to see. Remember the past but don't get stuck in it.

miserableoldgit
01-03-2013, 12:36 PM
My big moan about this is not the advent of CD`s or downloads. Even at my advanced age I embrace all that technology provides us with. My problem is the fact that most (not all!) popular music is now just "product" provided by artificially manufactured "artists". Whatever happened to the bands/singers who served their apprentiships and learned their art in smokey pubs and clubs before being picked up by record companies etc? Bands like Bellowhead, for example, are a breath of fresh air because thay are different and served their time in Folk Clubs and Festivals. The "Acoustic Music" scene is full of incredibly talented musicians and singers who will never be seen outside of Arts Centres and clubs. Sadly it`s not "real music" that generally makes money nowadays.

Lazlo78
01-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Haiku of the week

New business models
Money will be spent elsewhere
Still, life will go on

Joensuu
01-03-2013, 01:41 PM
I see opportunities. Yes the internet dominates sales, but with the high street giants closing, will an economically viable gap in the market open for indie stores again?

And don't think the teens haven't noticed the the lack if quality in the sea of manufactured-Cowell-cr@p that society calls music. This is just the sort of environment that breeds innovation. At least I hope that's what happens. Id like to see new rebels pulling music off in a new direction, ideally in a direction I'll hate, otherwise where's the rebellion?
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

KelvinsRightGlove
01-03-2013, 02:17 PM
I have a theory, may be wrong (probably is), that the reason that bands like One Direction can have such success is that they are effectively going after people not that into music.

People that actually know very little about music, and will happily lap up the stuff Cowell & the radio companies tell them to like.

Whereas the real innovators, by design and definition fragment their audience instantly. They are going after a more discerning clientèle, with stronger views and opinions, so therefore a smaller market, which they are then dividing further by being innovative.

The reason that bands such as the aforementioned One Direction can be successful is because they are going after people that have little interest in music, other than watching x-factor on a saturday night, thinking "oh he's cute, oh look at him cry, he's adorable!" and then rushing out to buy their CD's with slightly sodden knickers. These are the people that have little knowledge or interest in the history or story of music or a musician, unless it's been packaged into weekly hour-long bitesize chunks and usually involves some sort of sob-story and a falling out with a. nother panel member.

Hence the reason they can release songs like One Way or Another (Teenage Kicks), and it not offend them, as they have no idea about the two amazing songs that are being butchered, nor do they care. In fact, if they were to hear Blondie's version, they would probably say "Oh, its someone doing One Direction". I did nearly hit a girl once for saying "oh, he's covering McFly", when Pete Doherty did a Beatles cover at a gig.

lifeintheslowlane
01-03-2013, 04:54 PM
I think the secret to avoid the major trauma suffered by music lovers is not to listen to the main commercial radio stations, Radio One, shows like X-factor, The Voice, Britain's Got Talent etc, etc. It's not difficult for us...we don't have any kids or grand children so we please ourselves. I listen to Six Music which gives me my daily fix of old mixed with new without descending to the lowest common denominator.

I've heard the names of some of this pop-pap but fortunately I'm not aware of ever hearing the likes of One Direction...I can honestly say I wouldn't know them if I heard them.

KelvinsRightGlove
01-03-2013, 05:10 PM
I think the secret to avoid the major trauma suffered by music lovers is not to listen to the main commercial radio stations, Radio One, shows like X-factor, The Voice, Britain's Got Talent etc, etc. It's not difficult for us...we don't have any kids or grand children so we please ourselves. I listen to Six Music which gives me my daily fix of old mixed with new without descending to the lowest common denominator.

I've heard the names of some of this pop-pap but fortunately I'm not aware of ever hearing the likes of One Direction...I can honestly say I wouldn't know them if I heard them.


You are one of the lucky ones friend.

;)

Kingsbridge Saint
01-03-2013, 10:52 PM
Saw the Stone Roses in Brisbane last night. It's all still there if you want it - you just have to be prepared to look a bit harder and pick up the threads where you can, man.

Lazlo78
01-03-2013, 11:46 PM
Back in the "good old days" pop artists would make a hit song and force you to buy a full album with 12 crap numbers to get that song. Was that ok? Now they can't do that anymore as people will buy only that particular song they are interested in, avoiding all the crap...

Ohio Saint
01-03-2013, 11:52 PM
Back in the "good old days" pop artists would make a hit song and force you to buy a full album with 12 crap numbers to get that song. Was that ok? Now they can't do that anymore as people will buy only that particular song they are interested in, avoiding all the crap...

Pop? Ah, OK then. pop has been crap always.....No arguments. I thought we were talking about music.

percy windham
02-03-2013, 12:32 AM
Music is not dead. Maybe people who are incapable of discovering things for themselves believe music to be dead. 5 minutes googling then into youtube then onto bandcamp etc will give open a whole new world of music.

percy windham
02-03-2013, 12:34 AM
Or just go own your local venue (for myself and many others its Joiners) and go see some ****ing new acts and some proper live music. Explore what's about. Don't be ****ing lazy.

dubai_phil
02-03-2013, 06:11 AM
Music is not dead. Maybe people who are incapable of discovering things for themselves believe music to be dead. 5 minutes googling then into youtube then onto bandcamp etc will give open a whole new world of music.

Had to create Playlists for the Band for our Wedding in May and a list of downloads for the DJ to have available. (A Polish wedding party lasts 12 hours so it was a helluva a task) The band will play about 10 x 45 minute sets and will have to include a whole raft of traditional Polish Folk/Waltz/Polkas as well as their hit music.
So in their list of over 300 songs I had to pick ones we totally did NOT want played as well as Must plays.

Thing was of course that there were a whole heap of songs/singers that I didn't recognise first time or were old Europop (Modern Talking FFS)

So I had to start googling and You Tubing. I had a GREAT week finding stuff (A Tony Christie Vid from when he first went on TotP for eg :lol:)

Then I had to start finding the downloads. Needed around 200 "approved" songs. Again, great fun Top 100 Heavy Metal Tracks, Top 100 Slow Metal, Top 100 Disco, Top 100 Indie, etc etc then some great times listening to them straight away. Probably listened to more songs in that week than I had ever had in my old sad Record Collection. All of them are now being downloaded, some are being paid for some are available free. I'm going to end up with a whole huge new music collection.

Allowing for the fact that the guests will range from 85 through to 3 and from about 6 different Nationalities, the range had to be wide as did the genres. So there had to be a set of Hands in The Air "Dance" tracks as well for when the Vodka has really set it & the oldies have gone home. The lists of that current dance stuff was simply full of one hit wonders, band names I had never heard of, DJ's etc Daft Punk, Underworld, Stardust, Rihanna :rolleyes:

But then those led me to Soundcloud and wow....

Spent days on there listening to some amazing remixes of songs. I was trying to find a remix of Gotye that Zane Lowe had done (ie one you can dance to)

No way the old "Route to Market" - ie Radio One Playlist, Top 100 - HMV would have led me to some of the stuff on there. Quite a few I have now downloaded and listen to, some of the stuff they have done to Adele songs is excellent (as an example)

So yeah the death of music, but music is made by people who start playing around at home these days. Just they don't have to carry a drum kit into their Dad's Garage to practice.

Now THAT is a benefit.

Hamilton Saint
04-03-2013, 03:02 PM
Back in the "good old days" pop artists would make a hit song and force you to buy a full album with 12 crap numbers to get that song. Was that ok? Now they can't do that anymore as people will buy only that particular song they are interested in, avoiding all the crap...

Maybe in the '50s and early '60s. If an artist is putting out 12 crap numbers, they are not worth listening to or supporting. It was The Beatles who led the push to put out high-quality albums which were NOT padded with "crap numbers". After their first album, they even stopped putting their singles on the albums - which meant 14 new tracks. And they used the albums as a vehicle for creative innovation.

The sign of a good band, or solo artist, was precisely that ability to put out a good, solid album - one that was not full of "crap numbers". During the early to mid-'60s, popular music was dominated by the single, the pop charts, and AM radio (the "Light" programme, which became Radio One). Starting in the late '60s, the shift was away from the single to the album; away from AM radio to FM radio. FM radio could broadcast in stereo and high-fidelity sound - and the shift was away from singles to predominantly album tracks.

What we have now is a shift back to the era of the single. And that means inferior bands can thrive without the need to put out good-quality albums - collections of interesting and creative tracks.

Me, I'm still an "album guy". I still buy my music on "albums" (CDs). I still prefer to listen to a band or and artist for an hour or so, rather than constantly shifting from one three-minute song by one artist to another three-minute song someone else, as it was back in the days of Top-20 radio. It's the way I prefer to listen to music, and the change in technology has not had an effect on that. Oh, and I still frequent "record stores", as well as buy CDs from Amazon.

scotty
05-03-2013, 08:47 AM
Oh, and I still frequent "record stores", as well as buy CDs from Amazon.

Thats one of the points the guy made in the rant I originally quoted, he can't go to a record store any longer as there aren't any left in his town of residence.

I should also apologise for the thread title, which seems to have misled several posters. It isn't about "the death of music", or a rant about how music used to be so much better in his day etc etc, (in fact he only directly criticises Boyzone, Take That, Pop Idol and the Bay City Rollers.) It should more accurately have been titled "the death of caring about popular music due to its ready availability for free online at the click of a mouse, and the subsequent deterioration in the way we regard it and listen to it".

I agree with him. Here's an example; I've been a huge fan of the Clash since hearing the first notes of their first eponymous album, and when the release of Combat Rock was announced I raced to the local record store and bought it. The NME had already previewed it as "their best album yet", and as their tastes tended to coincide with mine at the time I was expecting to enjoy it. When I got back to my Stoke on trent bedsit, the needle dropped onto the vinyl and...........what a pile of unlistenable sh*te. Didn't get it at all. Listened again, still hated it.

Nowadays, that would have been it. 99p wasted on a 10 second download, just delete it to save hard drive space and forget about it, and dont bother with their next album either, the c*nts. BUT.... I'd invested something in acquiring it, ie going to the record store to order it before release day, going back to get it, and forking out about a fiver to buy it. So I kept it, but didn't listen to it again until one swelteringly hot summers afternoon, when I unexpectedly had the afternoon free due to a cancelled job. So I saw it among the albums on my shelf, turned the volume down low, (not the obvious thing to do with a Clash album,) kicked back on the sofabed and listened. Was absolutely blown away, and its still my favourite Clash album 30 years later. That would never happen now.

Barry the Badger
05-03-2013, 12:44 PM
Nowadays, that would have been it. 99p wasted on a 10 second download, just delete it to save hard drive space and forget about it, and dont bother with their next album either, the c*nts. BUT.... I'd invested something in acquiring it, ie going to the record store to order it before release day, going back to get it, and forking out about a fiver to buy it. So I kept it, but didn't listen to it again until one swelteringly hot summers afternoon, when I unexpectedly had the afternoon free due to a cancelled job. So I saw it among the albums on my shelf, turned the volume down low, (not the obvious thing to do with a Clash album,) kicked back on the sofabed and listened. Was absolutely blown away, and its still my favourite Clash album 30 years later. That would never happen now.

Why not? It's readily available? Why wouldn't it happen now? I have a subsription to Spotify and regularly go back and listen to things a few times if I don't quite get them first time round.

There is tons of brilliant new music out there, easy to find, easy to go back to. This whole lamenting because you can't stand in a shop thumbing through carboard and instead you have the new music at your fingertips is ridiculous.

Yes, record stores were nice, but try a streaming service, give it a proper chance, it's bloody brilliant and I wish they were available back when I was 15.

jjsaint
05-03-2013, 04:02 PM
Heard Richard Thompson's gig at the Barbican last week. 60-something and still an energetic flawless performance. Music is about as not dead as it is possible to be.

scotty
05-03-2013, 06:25 PM
Why not? It's readily available? Why wouldn't it happen now? I have a subsription to Spotify and regularly go back and listen to things a few times if I don't quite get them first time round.

There is tons of brilliant new music out there, easy to find, easy to go back to. This whole lamenting because you can't stand in a shop thumbing through carboard and instead you have the new music at your fingertips is ridiculous.

Yes, record stores were nice, but try a streaming service, give it a proper chance, it's bloody brilliant and I wish they were available back when I was 15.

I use them as well, all the time. It is better than the old days, but the whole point of the original OP isn't that "it used to be better" per se, but that it has fundamentally altered our relationship with the music we listen to, the way we perceive it and the value we put on it. I love the fact that if I suddenly remember a song I liked I can whistle it up in 10 seconds, copy it for nothing and play it whenever I want, but the guy's point is not that at all.

As for the live music points that people have made, I agree entirely, and I go to plenty of local gigs, mainly at the Brook, Platform and Talking Heads. (not overly keen on the Joiners myself.) Also seen quite a few good bands at that place next to Goblets, in fact my nephew use to play there with his band, Furious Animation (look them up, they do some great stuff,) and his new band up in Mitcham, Stop Press who are also excellent.

Barry the Badger
05-03-2013, 10:18 PM
I use them as well, all the time. It is better than the old days, but the whole point of the original OP isn't that "it used to be better" per se, but that it has fundamentally altered our relationship with the music we listen to, the way we perceive it and the value we put on it. I love the fact that if I suddenly remember a song I liked I can whistle it up in 10 seconds, copy it for nothing and play it whenever I want, but the guy's point is not that at all. .

Im sorry but I dont get it. I'm a huge music fan but this is just sentimental nonsense.

Hedgehog
06-03-2013, 07:28 AM
Death of music, look no further than the One direction Bieber (X) factor.

rpb
06-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Or just go own your local venue (for myself and many others its Joiners) and go see some ****ing new acts and some proper live music. Explore what's about. Don't be ****ing lazy.

Some local bands refuse to die...

http://thequietus.com/articles/11559-accrington-stanley-interview

Lord Duckhunter
08-03-2013, 03:08 PM
It was The Beatles who led the push to put out high-quality albums which were NOT padded with "crap numbers". After their first album, they even stopped putting their singles on the albums - which meant 14 new tracks. And they used the albums as a vehicle for creative innovation.



Not forgetting the B sides.

When you have B sides like, Rain, Don't let me down, This boy, Revolution, She's a women, I'm Down, and Old Brown shoe that were never even on UK albums (apart from an acoustic version of revolution) it really shows just what an incredible band they really were.

dronskisaint
09-03-2013, 08:49 AM
Not forgetting the B sides.

When you have B sides like, Rain, Don't let me down, This boy, Revolution, She's a women, I'm Down, and Old Brown shoe that were never even on UK albums (apart from an acoustic version of revolution) it really shows just what an incredible band they really were.

Agree 100%

Unashamedly I'm an old f*rt that believes that real music is created by musicians (those that can play music...some even write it..shock, horror) not accountants and their puppet-profit vehicles.

But then there were the Monkees.....

JPTCount
09-03-2013, 05:44 PM
i don't like pop music at all, but i also wouldn't choose to listen to alot of these 'real' musicians you guys are going on about, i prefer hip hop and electronica, not pop, not even real music. you don't have to listen to it tho, you don't even have to know who the f*ck they are. pop is pop, the charts have been full of manufactured stuff for 20 years, and the tv shows have been going at least 10 now, let the plebs get on with it.

plus, with the internet it's so easy to ignore them completely, i have no idea who most of these people are, i even name or hum a one direction tune, i just know they are a band. it's because i choose what music i listen to, and i don't listen to radio 1/2/power FM except background noise that someone else put on, use tune in radio and list to your non stop 80s power ballads, or find a john lee hooker mash up on mixcloud, and be content that you are enjoying what you think is good music.

and that's the whole point, music is such a personal thing, like taste, you can't just persuade people that this is what you should listen to. music snobbery is the worst kind of snobbery.

oldskoolsi
10-03-2013, 11:32 AM
Music's not dead in the sightest. The only problem I have nowadays is too much choice. I still buy 90% of my music on CD but because they are so cheap (especially second hand cd's) and I 've been collecting over 25 years I have over 2 months worth of music. I rarely listen to new stuff more than once. Less time to really absorb it. I've never been one to go see bands I know nothing about. So now I rarely go see new bands because none of them grab me first time. I could see this being an issue for people who get loads sof music free from tinternet but, as I've just said, it's not an internet only problem.

Micky
10-03-2013, 09:32 PM
I have a theory, may be wrong (probably is), that the reason that bands like One Direction can have such success is that they are effectively going after people not that into music.

People that actually know very little about music, and will happily lap up the stuff Cowell & the radio companies tell them to like.



Your theory is actually quite correct. One direction are not a 'band' - well not in the musical sence anyway. Simon Cowell couldn't give two ****s about music - his target customers are the pocket money audience. Kids who rely on their parents to fund their musical 'passion'. And to be fair to him - he's doing very well out of it, bless him.

But for all of that - please, please don't tarnish real musicians by mixing the two. Simon Cowell, X factor, all of those offshoots, the act and the fans - really have naff all to do with music.