aintforever

I would be worried if the final decision on signings was not the manager's. Would be a disaster waiting to happen if Cortese or Reeds was making the decisions IMO.

Cheers Whitey, ringing ahead sounds like a good plan. Don't want to be too tied down. Definitely doing Yosemite and Mariposa, and I think Napa. Gonna check out Carmel etc now. Would you say driving from San Fran to Vegas in one go is a bit ambitious? It says 9.5 hours on google maps but I figured if I put my foot down on the freeways I could cut a fair bit off that.

Advice needed from you worldly well-travelled types. Me and the Mrs are flying to Vegas for a couple of weeks and are planning a road trip round California. Current plan is to spend a few days in Vegas going crazy then hiring a car and driving to San Fransisco via Death Valley, Yosemite - then returning for a few days chill out time in some sw@nky Vegas Hotel. Thought about maybe doing L.A, and Universal Studios or Pacific Coastal road, Santa Barbara etc. Any suggestions of places to go/things to do around Vegas/California would be greatly appreciated, as would advice on places to avoid. Also do we need to book up Motels in advance or are there loads you can just turn up at? Cheers

That is 100% correct, and why the blame lies with the health and safety and police. But just because drunkenness and unruliness was the accepted norm among football supporters in the 80's doesn't mean it didn't contribute to the tragedy. The fences were there because of it, the polices attitude were shaped by it (when the central pens were obviously being overcrowed I expect the officers were still more concerned about potential violence than a possible crush). Police was concerned about loss of life in the crush outside the ground. Any Liverpool supporters pushing or acting unruly outside played a direct role in the loss of life IMO.

Similar thing happened to Spurs fans in the Semi in 1981. It is shocking that lessons were not learned, I suppose history has shown it often takes a major tragedy for changes to happen. However I think it is pointless having another inquest into what caused the tragedy, health and safety was too relaxed and the Police screwed up - no one wanted it to happen. However NYONE involved in covering up what actually happened should spend time behind bars, and I include that old c*nt Thatcher in that. Also ANY Police officer who changed their story to cover the force's ass should also be punished - regardless of how much pressure was put on them from above.

Agree, when you are Southampton in the Prem a top keeper is vital. We've shown their value down the years, from Shilton to FLowers to Neimi. I applaud Adkins for giving kelvin a chance but we should have forked out for top quality, experienced backup.

It's completely retarded that we are even discussing sacking Adkins. When the fixture list came out we all agreed we would probably get d!cked and have next to no points at this stage. Yet when it happens people start questioning a manager that has taken us from the bottom of League 1 straight to the Prem. We could have had Moriniho in charge and we still would probably be bottom.

Joking right? This is the same Les Reed that f*cked Charlton up.

Would be retarded to sack Adkins after 5 games.

So the booth workers get dumped on the dole and we get robbed by no-change-giving machines, great.

Just like the good old days.

All this bed wetting is so predictable, it was always unlikely that we would get any points from City, Utd and Arse. The fixture computer has been very unkind to us. As I said at the start of the season, it's a nightmare start because it kills the winning mentality and puts the team under pressure from the off. Just hope Cortese doesn't wet his bed and gives Adkins a chance.

Page 47 of the Taylor report: 4 – The need to open gate C was due to dangerous congestion at the turnstiles. That occurred because, as both Club and police should have realised, the turnstile area could not easily cope with the large numbers demanded of it unless they arrived steadily over a lengthy period. The Operational Order and police tactics on the day failed to provide for controlling a concentrated arrival of large numbers should that occur in a short period. That it might so occur was foreseeable and it did. The presence of an unruly minority who had drunk too much aggravated the problem. So did the Club’s confused and inadequate signs and ticketing. Blame for the tragedy has to lie with the Police but the fans behaviour influenced the police's poorly judged decision to open the gates, I remember seeing the TV footage outside the ground. I'm not saying that as a slur on scousers, it could just as easily have been Saints fans there. But football fans in the 80's were generally aggressive, hard to control and usually ****ed. You can say that's just the nature of football fans but IMO we should all be responsible for our actions.

Totally agree.

You are the only c@ck around here, everyone is entitled to their opinion. "the presence of an unruly minority who had drunk too much aggravated the problem." That's in the Taylor report. The Police and health and safety have to take the blame, that is obvious. Football crowds during the 80's were rowdy, aggressive and unpredictable in their nature and the people in charge of crowd control have to take that into account.

That's exactly what my point was. Some of the ignorance in this thread is astounding.

I agree that there were many factors more to blame, I just think the way football fans were during the 80's contributed. There was a crush outside not an orderly queue, why was that?

Doesn't go into much detail about what was happening outside to cause the crush which led to the Police's decision. From what I saw on TV and my experience of going to football I think the fans who pushed outside should shoulder some of the blame. We've all been in similar situations, some people behave and wait patiently, some people are assholes, particularly when drunk. The Police are ultimately responsible though because football crowds in the 80's were unruly and drunk.

Shocking design, made my brain hurt trying to use it.

I remember it like it was yesterday, everyone just stopped working and sat there listening to the radio is shock. The thing I remember most clearly as it unfolded was disturbing feeling of not knowing what was going to happen next, it seemed like the World had gone crazy as more reports came in from the Pentagon etc. Most of the conspiracy theories like Loose Change are obviously complete nonsense (robots flying planes, missiles shooting into the Pentagon etc). My opinion is that the American government probably just covered up their own mistakes or maybe knew that Bin Laden was planning something and thought they had more to gain by just letting him do it, not knowing it would be anywhere near that serious.

A few seasons in League 2 flirting with a 3rd/4th admin and you will soon change your tune. Getting fans groups involved in running the club will just end up in disaster IMO. You will become the footballing equivalent of the Ted Bates Hobbit statue.

I'm no expect but I guess going from 'farmland only' to 50,000 seater football stadium development is a bit of a big leap. Think they will do well to get permission for some nicely landscaped luxury housing development there.

Blimey you're easily amused! like i said, Cortese is doing a fantastic job, I can't see the point in posting pathetic stories on here. I don't blame Le Tiss for tweeting though.

I don't want to say. I'm not going to get a mate in trouble to satisfy a few people on here. Anyway, you are giving Le Tiss a grilling for posting stuff on the internet, now you want me to exactly the same?

I'm pretty sure Stelling says what he wants. he looked genuine to me. If anything I thought Matt looked embarrassed.