trousers

My perception was that there was an implication, but I wasn't 100% certain, hence the question mark. Happy to stand corrected. I'm simply struggling to reconcile the original internal and external press coverage that quite clearly reported JP and MW were 'working as a seamless team' compared with the picture that is now being painted by some...i.e. that JP and MW weren't working very closely together on tactics etc afterall. But, fair cop, you've spotted I'm being somewhat provocative to try and smoke out the truth. Again, happy to be proven wrong in the process. It's a means to an end. Fair observation. Jan's only post-departure interview (with Setanta) would tend to back up this theory (unlike the OS view of their working relationship of course). Although I am intrigued as to why his broadside wasn't picked up other media outlets given the damning nature of what he said, but anyway. Completely agree. Which brings me back to my often repeated, never answered $64,000 dollar question...Who introduced Lowe to Poortvliet in the first place and convinced him he was as good as Wotte? I'll have to bow to your inside knowledge on that one as I've no way of knowing for sure how close Wotte was to the first team and/or what influence he had on a day-to-day basis (other than the club saying that they would be working closely together from the outset....) Yep, I'll raise a glass to that. p.s. it's Wotte, not Woote, by the way...

1996 ?

Which still begs the question.....who recommended him to Lowe in the first place?

I order you not to add any more posts to this thread. Yours paradoxically, Trousers

Yep, he's got a new job title, but to imply (?) that he had no input whatsoever into first team affairs is, I would venture, bordering on the naive. However, for sake of balance, lets entertain the idea that he did indeed have very little to do with the running of the first team....if this is the case, don't people find it worrying that we had a bloke (Wotte) standing by watching our season go down the pan and all the time he was thinking "God, if I was head coach I'd be playing a more traditional 4-4-2 and insisting some of the older heads played more regularly". Either Wotte was heavily involved in all aspects of the playing side of the club (as per the OS articles from Wilde and co at the time) and, if so, can't be described as a 'new man doing the job' or he had nowt to do with the first team and, if so, the original words from Wilde were hollow and/or Wotte stood by saying nothing whilst thinking that our tactics weren't right. Which is it? Yes, he's brought in new tactics but he could (IMHO) have urged Lowe to nip the problem in the bud a lot earlier rather than wait for 'circumstances' to force him and/or the club into a tactical u-turn.

JP was simply carrying out a strategy hatched in the board room. The OS articles published at the time of their (JP and MW) arrival give the full details of what Wilde and Lowe were thinking. Blaming JP is a bit like blaming an army major for taking us to war in Iraq rather than blaming Blair. (note: I'm not attempting to compare the magnitude of war with the running of a football club, rather highlighting the hierachy of an organisation and where the 'orders' emanate from.)

To borrow the words and sentiments of Michael Wilde, Wotte has been a pivotal part of the management team for over 9 months so "new" is stretching things a tad. IMHO of course.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=219657#post219657 "....little equation for you to ponder....our friend van der waals...his friend....Tony Pulis.....D.Gorre currently our rotational reserve/first team coach (ex.reserve coach Stoke City FC)....Pulis junior (Portsmouth 0 games,Stoke 2,Torquay 3,Plymouth 5,Grimsby 9,Bristol Rovers 1,Southampton 0, 2 year contract)....Andrew Davies to Stoke City ('un-disclosed fee',now on loan at Preston North End).... " :confused:

Skacel's signed? I missed that one.

Are we playing 4-4-2 in the reserves too now?

Is it me or did Ipswich have some decent chances and a fair amount of possession in the middle section of that game? I know highlights can be deceptive but it didn't seem as one sided as everyone (including Jim Magilton and the Ipswich fans) have made out.

I have a question that's bugging me.... Who introduced Poortvliet to Lowe in the first place? (a) Wotte ? (b) van der Waals ? © "someone else" ? We know that Lowe wanted to give Wotte a crack of the whip 3 years ago before turning to Burley, and that Wotte fancied the job at he time. We also know that Wotte didn't want the 'head coach' job this time around (for some unknown reason) but I assume Lowe offered him the job again this time last year whilst hatching his comeback plan. So who suggested Poortvliet to Lowe as an alternative head coach to Wotte? (I doubt Lowe knew of Poortvliet directly)

Ok...arm twisted....I'd swap Wotte for Hoddle or Strachan. Coin toss for Dowie. No-one else springs to mind

Too early to judge objectively

And to provide a "seamless interface" with the first team (Michael Wilde's words last spring, not mine)

Just to clarify, were your misgivings about Wotte, per se, or the tactics that he helped implement during the first 2/3rds of the season? My misgivings were about the tactics that I thought he might carry on with so no need for humble pie now that Wotte has ditched them. IMHO of course.

Share price back on the rise...slightly. http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/prices/system/detailedprices.htm?sym=GB0007922114GBGBXAIMI0792211SOO Oh happy days are here again

I used to watch tractors when I was a boy. I don't like them any more though. I'm now an extractor fan.

Our average age is still around the mid-20s mark though, give or take

Actually, looking at the negativity amongst Brum fans on this messageboard: http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=69&fid=9&sty=2 I've decided to ditch the open-minded thinking and agree that we should stick to our guns and go for it! COYR!

Some would say that criticism, constructive or otherwise, can be character building. Seems to have worked a treat in Paterson's case if last night's cameo is anything to go by....

Or maybe Lowe and Co will still be in charge having learned a painful lesson...? (It's ok...I'll stop this balanced open-mindedness one of these days.....)

The question is....who rattled who's cage first? i.e. wasn't the chronology as follows? 1) Saints playing badly 2) A section of fans get fed up and protest 3) Wotte reacts with provocative comments which gives rise to a siege mentality and unity amongst the players and manager 4) Saints start winning again Some might argue that it's the very fans that Wotte rightly or wrongly 'had a pop at' that acted as a catalyst to the current renaissance. Just a theory which no doubt will be shot down in flames for resembling something close to an opinion.

Perhaps Fulthorpe's still got Shearer up his sleeve.....?

Will Wotte be at the Birmingham game tonight?