Micky

As it should be.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34779650

Didn't end too well either, did he...!

Yes, yes, we know all that, but just think of all the guns that you get to own..! Liberty, man, liberty. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

I'm not with you, what's to justify? Isn't leaving a 5 year old kid alone in the desert with a cocked loaded gun just 'the norm' over here on the 'island of violence'? Happens every Saturday night where I come from.... surely....

You're ranting mate - again. One more time, just for you, the thread is about gun (that's gun) control (or the lack of it) within the United States. I totally understand that you are against gun control - but you need to at least try to put up some sort of cogent argument as to why the current legislation doesn't need reform. Your last rant was all about knife crime - not guns. Do we have a problem with knife crime here in the UK - hell yes we do! Are we trying to overcome it with knife amnesties and initiatives in inner city areas where gang culture is rife - yes we are. But again, it has little bearing on the thread, and dare I suggest that I'd rather be facing our predicament with knives than I would America's with guns. Just my opinion - but I think most would agree. I don't know where you used to live while you were here, but I kinda feel a little sorry for you, all that trouble and burglary as well. I've lived down south, up north, Northern Ireland and currently live in the midlands - never had a problem and, rather strangely, never been burgled on this Isle of Violence....! Very interested to read that your response to somebody being knifed over here would be to allow everybody to carry guns for defence reasons, and then you wonder why people can't take you seriously. Perhaps you should go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read it.

The reason that you don't do our pathetic "reasonable force" is because you can't, you fvkin doughnut...!!! You have guns, tons of them, pistols, rifles, semi automatic assault rifles, how the **** could you do reasonable force. And therein lays the crux of your problem - because there are so many guns on the street you all go around shooting each other - for no particular reason, other than the other guy might have a gun, bigger than your gun. I'm gonna shoot him, we can check it later - no sh it. Me, mid fifties, literally thousands of bars, odd brawl in my younger days - nothing serious. Strangely though, never been bottled, glassed, knifed or shot - nope, never. Now you mention it though. might think about getting myself a piece now, just in case. I hate to say this, but not only can I see why America has a problem, but if you are typical, then I'm also beginning to despair of Americans as well.

What a load of rubbish...! Everybody knows that a taller fridge is the way to go when you're talking serious gun control - keep up.

A price well worth paying, allows St George his liberty in his new homeland. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Ahhh so you've noticed, we have guns over here too, we were hoping to keep that quiet from you. Your not the brightest are you, all your post does is reinforce the argument for stricter gun controls. Do you think that any of the guns that were used in shootings here were licensed? Nope, probably not. Do you think they were legally bought or held? That'll be a no too. Do you think that they were obtained from the local gun store for a couple of bucks? Naaahhhh they would have cost a packet on the black market. Yep, it is just the bad guys that have guns - the everyday normal person in the street doesn't have guns, and I'm just guessing here, but I reckon that the normal everyday person doesn't want or need a gun either - call it a hunch. Now, if you are thick enough to think that means we have given up our liberty, you really are dumber than dumb. Your argument appears to be that the man with the biggest gun wins - explain where that stops - and how that gains liberty for anyone? As for your second link, again, you do nothing but reinforce our argument. Yep, we shot him, but not before trying to restrain him with non-lethal force, which unfortunately for this guy was ineffective - notwithstanding, the polices first thought was not to just shoot him. As it happens, it's not really that relevant in the grand scheme of the argument which centres on the difference in attitude to gun ownership, use and control. Yep, 50 shootings in Manchester, very, very high number for a single city here in the UK - but I wonder how those figures would compare to a city of similar size over there in the good old liberated US of A, eh?

It's a moot point really, doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that because of the current gun laws in the USA, buying an arsenal of high powered weapons is as easy as buying candy. Anybody could do it. Problem is of course, that it's often the candy eaters who suffer the consequences. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Without wishing to offend, may I just point out the purpose of an internet forum? They are places where people go to discuss and debate on topics of interest, and those topics could be many and varied. This particular thread was started to debate gun use within the USA – simple. If you do not like what you are reading, which it appears from your responses, you don’t, why come here? Your last two offerings are nothing more than rants about the UK being a Muslim breeding ground and how you think we appear to have 14 and 15 year old terrorist freely running around. If true, (which I doubt), none of it is relevant to this thread. You do the American public no favours at all with your childish rants and crass dismissal of all of the arguments put forward for reform. Telling people that it’s none of their business on an internet forum is tantamount to saying that free speech should be banned. The fact that we are in the UK debating this particular subject has no relevance whatsoever – none. We are all intelligent enough to look at the facts before us and make cogent arguments and come to rational conclusions. If you want to rant further about Muslims in the UK and / or UK terrorism why not start a relevant thread here and see how it goes. Meanwhile, the rest of us will probably continue to debate “What is wrong with America?” Oh – BTW, I’m off to do some serious “hand wringing” now…!

It’s none of your business, Americans are quite happy for children to die in this way, so long as they get to keep their guns. It is their right, it is in the constitution – this cannot be changed. Not only that, but guns are a necessity in the US of A, people need to have them to ensure their own personal protection – it’s not like here in the UK. I listened to an interview given by a woman in the wake of the Oregon Community College massacre, naturally she was shocked by what she’d witnessed, but had all the answers. She was 19, but when she reached 21, she was going to get herself a gun and carry it everywhere – no way was she getting shot. Besides, there are only 559 children aged 11 or under that have been killed or injured by guns in the USA this year, which let’s face it is a relatively small price to pay when it allows millions of American citizens their right to bear arms. Simply branding ‘yanks’ as thick is pretty stupid too. They’re not; let’s face it they have managed to bring in smoking reform in over 28 states (yep, they changed the law!) – They understand that smoking is dangerous, and bad for your health. Unfortunately, in America, a smoking cigarette is seen as much more of a danger than a smoking gun. Anyway – why should they change – the figures are not that bad – guns are a good thing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385

Can't complain, he's had more than a fair crack at it and failed basically. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Ummm Brendan Rogers gone, won't be buying too many more of our players for a while now...! Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Considering what's gone before, I don't really want to resurrect this thread, hopefully though, the loonies have long since left, and even if they haven't, they have enough common sense to acknowledge that this is just plain wrong. Police shoot and kill a man in a wheelchair, yep honestly they did: http://news.sky.com/story/1558703/paralysed-man-in-wheelchair-shot-dead-by-police Commensurate force - honestly? 4 police officers cannot overpower a man in a wheelchair by any other means? How many shots did you hear? Yes, he may have been armed - but really - there was no other way? That's one more to add to the 861, that also met the same fate. Don't get me wrong, some may well be justified - but there has to be a better way to incapacitate a man in a wheelchair. Surely. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#

Pretty much this. After the first half hour today we were pretty woeful really. Yes you can point to the 'if's and but's' but the bottom line is that after 90 minutes we had no points again. Whether you like it or not, there is a gulf in class between the likes of us and Utd and its highly unlikely that we will ever bridge that gap. They had 3 shots on target today and scored them all - sign of a top team. But as Charlie says - failing to beat sides like Newcastle and West Brom, will tell you where we are this season. Can see us in the relegation scrap early doors, but don't think we will go down. On the other hand - can't see us anywhere near the top ten either - so pretty much back to our mid table mediocrity I guess. In hindsight now, it's pretty lucky that we did get our asses kicked out of Europe pretty early doors - it's going to be a long hard slog in the prem.

So where will we be on MOTD tonight....? Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

Harry you biff, bloody Harry... not Huey.... aahhh forget it. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

This. We support Saints, we do not support individual players, our tribe is Southampton FC, always has been, always will be. BTW - It never ceases to amaze me how posters who rarely post, always seem to speak the most sense and bring order to this chaotic forum

To be fair - he bought absolutely nothing of relevance to, what could've been, a very interesting thread. America plainly does have a problem, and one that most politicians are too afraid to confront seriously. Simply saying that 'gun control will never happen because of the constitution', is ridiculous - does civil war have to break out before somebody decides that perhaps gun control should be considered? The thread was also derailed somewhat as it tended to concentrate on high profile Police shootings (The Counted - Guardian - currently 731 Americans killed by police so far this year) http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database If 731 have been killed by Police alone, how many others have been killed by way of crime, accidents or suicides? It is bizarre that supposedly intelligent people are content for this to continue and are more than happy to defend the indefensible. Sarnia was in an ideal position to actually provide a balanced viewpoint, but lacked the intelligence to either see that, or do so. When he started ranting I actually thought he was probably a 16 - 17 year old kid, later in the thread when it transpired that he was in his 60's, it sort of became a little worrying. But from his demeanor alone, you perhaps see why people are so blinkered. As I said - the OP started a very interesting debate, as I see it America owes it to their children not to leave it until tomorrow, what they themselves, are too afraid to face today.

So long as we play better than last time we met them I don't care. We were 4 - 0 down at halftime if I remember correctly....!!! Finished 3 - 4 after they took pity on us....!

Couldn't have been. Impossible to hold a beer can when your wearing two ****in' massive foam hands...!

Fool. The Counted. Read. The officer is 'innocent'? http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/23/cleveland-officer-not-guilty-shot-137-times-police Bye.

Great resource Verbal. You would think that that one page alone would be enough to convince the most blinkered of people that reform is a must, wouldn't you. And yet it just goes on, and on, and on - the senseless killing. I've only checked out a few, but most appear to be unarmed at the time of the shooting as well. Whilst I find it absolutely abhorrent that supposedly intelligent people cannot see the destructive nature caused by their current love of weapons, I also find it immensely sad. I think I'm probably going to cease posting here for a while now. Having seen the current stats - I don't feel the need to justify my stance to Sarnia any further.

Interesting article, which as you have pointed out has generated reasoned debate. I took the opportunity to lift this section in order that Sarnia could enlighten us all with his all knowing wisdom: Myth No3: Gun control won’t stop gun violence There are more than three times as many Americans killed by guns per capita than in any other wealthy country, and more than 10 times the rate in comparable larger countries such as Britain, France and Japan. Many of these countries have similar problems with crime, drugs, urban deprivation and youth violence, others are more peaceful, but there is one simple thing that countries with less gun violence have in common with each other: they have fewer guns. No one can predict the future of a more gun-constrained America with certainty, but*the evidence from dozens of comparable societies*points to a clear causal relationship between access to firearms and how often they are used. Given his current track record though, I dread to think of his response. Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk