Lord Duckhunter

Remember how long it used to take to get a phone line fitted?

This is quite a decent article, pretty balanced I would suggest. We've had Bazza's take on it, how about Dominic Sandbrook's the author of several history books about Britain in the 1960s and 1970s. Both appear to be of a similar age, so have had to rely on research rather than their memories. A couple of points stand out for me. "For when Margaret Thatcher won power in May 1979, it was against the backdrop of perhaps the gloomiest decade in modern British history. Shorn of its empire, Britain now cut a very miserable figure on the world stage. For at least two decades we had been falling behind our rivals, and now the contrast was painful to see. Britain's average inflation rate for the 1970s was 13%. West Germany's was just 5%. Our unemployment rate was 4%. Theirs was only 2%. Our major cities seemed shabby and seedy, our newspapers were full of strikes and walkouts," "In truth, Britain in the 1980s was always facing an immensely painful transition, partly because so many difficult decisions had been postponed for so long, but also because the stark reality of globalisation meant that major industries - notably carmaking, shipbuilding and coal-mining - were doomed even before she took power. As a strident and often abrasive woman, Thatcher became the convenient scapegoat." "Even if she had never been prime minister, many of the changes she came to represent, from privatisation and deregulation to the death of heavy industry and the rise in unemployment, would almost certainly have happened anyway, only more slowly." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22076886 I think one of the problems is that some on the right have built her up to be something that she wasn't. They have made her into a neo con type figure and this has then allowed the left to rewrite history in the same manner. Certain myths have been hijacked by both sides of the argument to push their own agenda.

Exactly, im also starting to get ****ed off with some of the no marks getting honoured at games now. Well be honouring Doris the tea lady soon. That said if the club decide to hold a minutes silance for anyone, I'll honour it or maybe arrive fashionably late to miss it. To disrupt it would make me as low as the skate scum that disrupted teds .

Dr Beeching ****ed up the railways more than Thatcher ever did. And the botched privatisation was handled by the major government and remember that labour promised to renationalise them, how did that work out? The poll tax is an interesting one, remember at the time most people were complaining about the rates and they were considered unfair and in need of reform. Rather than duck the issue as countless people had done before, she attacked the issue head on . Nowadays the jokers running all 3 parties would kick it into the long grass or find out what focus groups think rather than show real leadership. The much maligned poll tax had some attractions and still does imo. It was not some sort of spitful policy designed to trample on the jocks or the poor but a serious, if misguided attempt to reform an unfair system. Recently we had 4 working adults living in our house, my neighbour had him and his mrs. Is it fair that we paid the same for local services? If you want local taxes to reflect peoples ability to pay, is property value the best way of doing do? I'm not convinced it is . Personally I prefer empowering councils to decide their own method, it maybe a local income tax, maybe property based or maybe a set rate paid by every working adult. Whatever it is it should a local decision endorsed by the local voters. The worst thing about the poll tax was that it shut down the debate on how we finance local services as nobody will touch it with a barge pole.

Well there's a surprise!!!!! Personally I would have thought the decent thing to do was to wait till after the funeral. What would your response be to Skates celebrating the death of a public figure, Matt Le Tiss maybe, or Lawrie, would you defend their right to do so? Or does that right only extend to the death of people you don't like?

It's about manners and respect and doing the right thing however much it grates you. Personally I don't think it's right for people to be celebrating the death of anyone (save a few like Hitler ect) and any critique of her personality or politics should at least wait until she's buried. Sometimes it better to say nothing at times like this, but to positively relish the death of someone is sick and unbecoming. Can you imigane the outcry if when asked about the death of Jacques Delors, Nigel farage spouted the bile that some are spouting about Thatcher, or if the Orange order celebrating the passing of The Pope in such a way. I am a confirmed and passionate Repulician , yet if the Queen passed away, I would keep my opinions to myself despite hating the women and all she stands for. I would not be celebrating or planning to protest at her funeral, in fact I would proberly be arrested if I did celebrate. I would not be doing so because it is wrong to do so, and I was brought up to do the right thing in this sort of situation. I'm not saying people should like or respect her, but should wait awhile before spouting some of the bile the BBC seem so keen to encourage.

Didn't think the lefties could get any lower over the death of an old lady, but no, Derek Hatton lowering the tone even further. " I wish she'd never been born". Oh, and accord to Hatton , she paved the way for Tony Blair's "illegal war". Why is it that lefties like Foot are allowed to rest in peace by their political foes, but they don't even have the respect to wait until she's buried before spouting vile and hate.

Correct, they were. They've been very brave to do what they've done, but that doesn't make them Ghandi. And it certainly doesn't make Maggie Thatcher as evil as them

Don't be so ****ing stupid, it's hardly child like to call Adams evil. He was personally involved and also sanctioned some evil acts including some against his own community. Rather than being "uniformed" a good friend of mine was in the Garda at the time, admittedly in Lucan rather than the border area, but he'll tell you intelligence they had and the things these guys did. They were at the very top of an organisation that knee capped their own, made people from their own community disappear and murdered innocent men, women, and children. And what attitude have I adopted over the "peace process", I made no comment over it other than call Adams Evil. Don't you think the Paisleys of this world think he's evil, don't you think John Major thought he was evil, Mo Mowlem knew he was evil. He was one evil son of a *****, but they held their noses and dealt with him. Calling Adams evil does not mean one is against this manufactured peace. Why try and make out he's some sort of Nelson Mandela.

If you really believe that Gerry Adams was no more evil than Maggie Thatcher, then you are seriously deluded . What people like Adams and McGuiness did was pure evil and just because the establishment held their noses and arranged some sort of "peace" does not suddenly make them freedom fighters or soldiers. They were murdering evil bastards, end of.

Her radical policies which were against the political wisdom at the time is now mainstream and endorsed by all except the Galloway's of the world. Even her "milk snatching" from her Education days was never reversed by Labour. Non of the industries she privatised were ever renationalised by Labour. Never again would they squeeze the rich until the pips squeaked, they still sold council houses and they never reformed any of her major union legislation. Surely the proof in whether your policies were any good is the fact that the opposition embraced most of your major convictions, despite 3 massive majorities and 13 years in which to do so.

Weak leaders like Heath, Wilson and Sunny Jim were leading us to terminal decline by constantly giving in to the unions. We were the sick man of Europe, a country with a past but no future. The fact that the reforms were not rolled back despite 13 years to do so, says it all.

Forget about the politics for a minute and just remember what an incredible achievement for a women to lead a political party and particularly the Tory party. We are no nearer to another women PM than we were when she left a generation ago. She was also outside of the establishment and a great contrast to pygmies running the 3 parties at present. You can quite understand people hating her, but the simple facts are that she won 3 victories so her policies were popular with the electorate. The country needed changing and she had the balls to change it. Hardly any of her reforms were rolled back by Labour despite 3 massive majorities and 13 years to do so.

But the minimum wage allows them to a the veneer of having morals without actually having any. My Company regularly bangs on about paying above the minimum wage as if it's some sort of achievement. Pay rises for grades lower than management were all changed to Oct from April to coincide with the increase in the minimum wage, the figure will be announced and it'll contain the words "X amount of pence over the minimum wage". I'm sure there are countless other companies that do the same. Personally, and I have no data for this just a gut feeling, I think the minimum wage has suppressed more peoples wages than it has dragged peoples wages up. Not so much now, but during the growth years. Companies all benchmarked their lowest pay against that figure, rather than paying a decent figure to attract talent. WFTC then add to the problem because Companies get the low wages topped up, so why bother paying more. For capitalism to really work people have to be able to put a figure on their Labour and walk away if offered lower than that. If Tesco couldn't get anyone to stack their shelves for £6.30, they would have to put the wage up to attract people. At present they can pay people that (and it was just an estimate) and the taxpayer will top it up. It also means that ASDA, Sainsbury's and Morrison's can also peg their pay around that figure leading to a downward spiral of ever lower wages. There is not a genuine market for peoples labour, it is skewered by the minimum wage. Therefore to make the minimum wage work you need to set it at a rate where people can live on it without state hand-outs .

So what do you want? Guaranteed jobs for everyone. Do you want the state to employ everybody who cant get a job in the private sector or do you want Government to force private companies to employ people?

"proper facts" as in stuff you agree with?

You seem to have left this bit off from the passage you quoted " but to raise Greece as an illustrative warning of what can happen when debts are not tackled does not seem unreasonable."

Tanglefoot

Doubt if we have as a club, but we know a certain player attempted a bit of spot fixing.

Where have I compared us to Greece. The markets have punished them and they COULD punish us. Maybe they will, maybe they wont. But I certainly don't want the man who left us so exposed by ****ing away our children's and Grand children's inheritance, running the economy.

Sir Geoffrey Howe's first budget cut the top rate of tax from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%, cue up roar from the Labour benches and I believe the sitting was even suspended. Further Tory cuts in tax rates came in subsequent budgets and guess what, more tax revenue was raised. The political consensus for years afterwards seemed to be that lower top rates of tax brought in more revenue, until Labour in a purely political act raised it to 50% in the dying days of the last Government. The reason was to try and box the Tory's into a corner so that they could parrot this "tax break for millionaires" line. When Labour wanted to increase tax whilst in Government they did so by fiscal drag and increasing NI contributions, surely if they really believed taxing the rich more was the answer they would have raised the 40% figure earlier? On the wider point, economists aren't the font of all knowledge. Nobody predicted the banks going bust and they have been wrong politically before. The Tory 1981 Budget defied conventional economic wisdom at the time by deflating the economy at a time of recession. At the time, his decision was fiercely criticised by 364 economists in a letter to The Times, who contended that there was no place for de-stimulatory policies in the economic climate of the time Howe decided that by reducing the deficit which at the time was 3.6% GDP, and controlling inflation, long term interest rates would be able to decline, thus re-stimulating the economy. This is exactly what happened, he was right and the economists were wrong. As for spending your way out of a recession. It is possible to expand the deficit to do so, however the other side of the coin is you pay down debt and reduce the deficit during growth periods. Brown (with advise from the 2 Ed's) failed to do this. Embarking on a spending spree like a sailor on shore leave. Believing that he had abolished boom and bust and was some sort of genius. He threw money at unreformed welfare, threw money at an unreformed NHS and bottled making cuts and modernising the state subsides that people get. Most of the reforms going through now should have happened years ago. Now the money's gone and there's no room for borrowing on a scale that'll make any difference at all. The markets may get spooked, nobody knows for sure, but I'd rather not take the chance of following Balls' advise and end up with crippling interest rates. Maybe if Alistair Darling was shadow I would consider it, but Balls is one of the reasons we can not spend our way out of this recession. Him and his crony Brown ****ed all the money up. Balls, Brown and Labour did not cause the global economic heart attack any more than the Tory's can be blamed for the Euro zone dragging us down. What Balls and co did was leave us ill equipped to deal with it when it came and for that reason they should never be trusted with our economy again.

This. [video=youtube;Gx6M-IoZYMI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx6M-IoZYMI

If we lose I hope the BBC reporter remembers to ask Adkins if he'll thank Brian Mac