norwaysaint

So what would your eleven be?

Imagine you had a machine and could go back and grab a clone of FOUR past saints players while in their saints prime (So Bale/Shearer as they were for us, not later clubs). Plus you could take a saints manager too, so that MP doesn't just put them on the bench... The rest of the team have to come from players currently available. What's your team line up to save our season and who's picking and coaching the team?

When he first came? After failing to impress at Coventry where he was relegated and unpopular with fans? You were pleased when you heard he was our new manager? He worked out well, but he was an underwhelming choice at the time with a poor record, so I think "wanting" Strachan was quite a minority thing. The Strachan love largely came later.

I don't have any problems with any of them. Fans aren't loyal to players, why should players be loyal to us?

Generally relegation results in a cleanout of the good players and the unfortunate retention of lacklustre, average talent on lucrative contracts.

People have a dream vision of our team next year in the championship, stripped down to the best players and youth coming through and proving themselves in the first team. An exciting squad of hungry players keen to prove themselves and exciting football week after week. History tells us that what we get is a bloated squad of average players on big wages, youth team players who don't quite prove to be what we hoped and end up playing for Salisbury and a slow decline over a few seasons. What is it that people think we have that will separate us from the other teams when we go down? Most of what's good will be gone by the end of the summer, the rest will probably continue to disappoint.

Last time when we had Bale, Walcott, Surman, Mills, Cranie, Dyer etc coming through? We also thought players like White, McGoldrick, Best, Blackstock, Gillett, James, Thomson etc were going to succeed, but it didn't really work out that way. Our next generation back then was considered much more promising than we have now.

So many people have forgotten how it was when we were relegated last time. You are remembering our promotion season in the championship, not the relegation seasons. The football got worse, not better. We didn't clear out the under performers. They were on long overpaid contracts, we lost the few good players we had. We started buying in more journeymen and uninspiring average players.

Oakley used to get slated week in week out on here for strolling around the pitch like he wasn't bothered and contributing little, often alongside Kevin Davies. Then every time he was out long term, he became the missing saviour of the team, only to be slated again after he returned. One of those players who was rated higher when they weren't playing. Davies and Oakley both found a new lease of life and became more battling, combative players after they left. They were both pretty lacklustre during the couple of years before they went though and there was no outcry at their departure. Obviously that only came when they did better at their new clubs.

Jack Stephens (And JWP) I did not expect that.

Definitely a wonder goal that seems better in your memory than if you actually watch it properly again. He really does just run in a straight line and side foot it in while a hopeless Ipswich completely **** it all up. But we were always better for having him in the side.

Are you taking the ****? Loyalty does not exist amongst the fanbase. Football fans turn on players very quickly if the have a bad season. Think how quickly we've seen "Get rid" threads about various players when they have not been doing well, despite years of good service. I've seen threads about ditching Davies, Yoshida, Long, JWP. Oh yeah, we have loyalty, until there's the slightest question mark over a player or manager.

People who talk about going down being better for the fans and team have really forgotten the reality of it from last time. They forget us going down with a bloated squad of mediocre players, then only being able to attract mediocre players and journeymen from other clubs, the few remaining decent players wanting out straight away, the under-performing stars continuing to under-perform, all decent prospects moving on, most of what we thought were decent prospects proving to not be up to it. Money getting tighter and tighter. Football getting worse and worse. We had a brief resurgence after spending money we couldn't afford, then it just got worse and worse until the takeover.

Blackface was used as a means to mock and degrade a race of people and sustain a culture of treating them as sub-human. I'm pretty sure that that isn't part of Messi's history, but I'll look into it. Look into films like Birth of a Nation and others. Black-face has a lot of connotations that are unsurprisingly sensitive. If you think this is ancient history and there aren'r echoes of it in today's society, think again. The Netflix documentary 13th can be a reasonable place to start.

Don't see why anyone it doesn't affect should care. Load of whining ****s getting upset about nothing on here. I have no problem with how other people identify themselves or what they want to call themselves. Do people really get so upset and confused by different names? Get a grip and stop searching for things to be outraged about.

Cork was always good for us, didn't he play every match in our promotion season from the championship? I think we would have happily kept him, but his chances were limited by having Morgan, Wanyama and Davis all deserving their places. It was smart for him to move on. The Cork and Schneiderlin pairing was one of the best we've ever had in midfield.

Has anyone got a good link for today?

The important thing here is not to recognise that different people might define derby in different ways and so have a different opinion. The best way to approach this is just to just tell other people they are wrong and then insult them, for no clear reason.

Does anyone else find it strange that the velocity "joke" gets repeated so regularly as a sign of Strachan's great wit? Is the bar really that low in football? If you heard somebody say that in real life, you'd surely just roll your eyes and have forgotten it a day later. Obviously a very good manager for us though.

The mistake you might be making,and I've seen it before on here, is mistaking the idea of what some people post about for some sort of collective entity who believes one thing and is constantly contradicting itself when it says something else. There are actually lots of people on here who think different things. So sometimes the comments you are reading are actually from somebody else, rather than the ubiquitous "what this forum thinks" kind of idea. There were probably some people who liked Pelle and some who thought he was overrated. That would explain the apparent contradiction and revisionism. It would also match up with your description of "many people" and "many on here", because it could be the case that equally many thought something else too and the case that many think something else now. Remembering that will probably help you understand a lot of things about why this forum can never keep its opinion constant.

I'm assuming all players are at their premier league peak with us in this? With that in mind, Bertrand at his best was probably better than Shaw achieved with us. Forster at his best was probably better than Boruc at his best. Lambert was a lot more consistent than Pelle, I would say.

I had to miss the match today, but I am confident that if Lemina was very good against Crystal Palace today, then he is probably better than Morgan Schneiderlin at his best.

I don't think there's a problem if we get a manager who is a massive success and gets poached. Then we will be in a good position to get a decent replacement and we'll have an improved team and possibly Europe. Having a successful manager is a good thing, right? Unless you're imagining we get an amazing manager who gets offered jobs by the top clubs, but decides to devote himself to Southampton for many years, even though if he has one mediocre season, the fans will call for him to be sacked. I don't think I want a manager with such poor judgement.

Wow, that was awesome

Perfect, thanks