St Marco

I agree with that. But i also think he has made it hard for us to win. The last 4 games we have been pretty poor. We are lucky that teams have not taken their chances and unlucky we have not taken ours (Surman i'm looking at you!). The problem now becomes we need to replicate in the next 6-7 games what we have done in the last 6-7 games. If we can come out of that period with 3 wins, 4 draws and 1 loss (13 points) then we will stay up. But if we come out with 1 win, 1 loss and 5 draws i think were be gone.

Thing is though mate if you look at that form guide we have 9 points from the last 6. Not bad. But Norwich have 10 from the last 6 and Plymouth have 7 points from the last 6. Meaning if everything stays as it is for the next 6 games we would still be below both Norwich and Plymouth. So if that happens means the table would stay the way it is with Forest and Saints swapping places due to us having a point more. So if the last 6 stays the same as the next 6 we will still be in the drop zone. BUT We would have that extra game meaning if we won we would survive due to Plymouth being a point ahead of us.

Didn't Plymouth beat Wolves away, Watford and drew with Reading recently? In their last game they lost to Burnley by a late goal. Burnley are the top in form team currently. I would trade for their fixtures for sure as they play Blackpool,Coventry,Doncaster,QPR,Barnsley and Birmingham. 4 of those teams are in the bottom 10. While i have no doubt Plymouth are **** all it takes is them to grind out 2 wins and we are needing 9 points to catch them. I would not be surprised to see them beat Blackpool,Doncaster and Coventry. Coventry and Doncaster have given up i think, Coventry have lost 4 of their last 5, the win being against Doncaster. And Doncaster have also won once in last 5 losing the other 4. Nothing left for those teams so can see them being beaten playing Plymouth at home. Where as we have Charlton,Wolves,Watford,Palace,Weds,Burnley and Forest. Think we can forget the Wolves and Burnley game as those 2 teams are on fire and Burnley will push hard to catch Birmingham. Of the 5 left i think we need 3-4 wins. But even then 9 points might not be enough. After the international break if i remember we play 4 times in 10 days. I think at that period we will know our fate. Win against Charlton, Lose to Wolves, win against Watford and Win against Palace will pull us out of it. But if we lose/draw to Charlton then we are in deep deep ****. Because on that weekend Forest play Barnsley, Plymouth play Blackpool, Doncaster play Watford and Norwich play Weds. So basically 6 teams directly above us are playing each other. Meaning someone will be gaining points. If we lose and Barnsley beat Forest and Plymouth beat Blackpool and Norwich beat Weds will see us 6 points adrift 7 if you include some of the GD. That means 3 of the 6 games remaining have to be won just to get back on level terms. So Charlton is the must win game of all must win games because lose and that could knock us out if Plymouth and Norwich win.

100% agree and is what i've tried to explain to people but they don't quite grasp it. If you draw with a team they stay where they are and so do you in corospondence to each other. To gain on that team you must win against them. With Blackpool they are a team a few weeks ago who were 1 place above us and 2 points ahead. Now they are 6 places ahead of us and 7 points ahead. The last 4 games we have got 3 points. If we get 3 points from the next 4 games i doubt we will be staying up. Thus we must win and must win against the teams we are catching. A draw to teams like Blackpool suits them more then us. If we draw the last 7 games then think we will be down. I wasen't at the Blackpool game but was at the previous 3. I think we were lucky to come away from those games with 2 points due to being negative tactics wise. People have said the same for the Blackpool game. Charlton is such a massive game now that i can imagine if we play for a draw like the QPR and Derby games Wotte could get a bit of stick.

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Atari 2600 Nes Megadrive Amiga 500 Super Nintendo Playstation Playstation 2 Dreamcast Wii Playstation 3 360 PC custom built Intel Core 2 Quad 6600 4x 2.4ghz, 2x 880GT sli. Looking back over the years i think the best gaming times were the Nes,Megadrive and Amiga. The golden age for gaming if you will. Lots of Nostalga because thats when i was a kid! But i think PS2 re-ignited my interest in gaming, the GTA series a lone did that! Now days i don't think there are enough good games out. Too many angles that have been done to death and don't really bring anything new to the table. Personally i don't really give a monkies about the features on a modern console, don't care about Blu-Ray, don't care about watching films streamed on the 360, don't care about Mii's. I just play games and while we have some good ones were already nearing the next generation of consoles and as of yet im not as fond as the three new ones as i was of the old PS2 and the ones before that. But it is GDC this week so should hear some new games being announced. Like Max Payne 3

No they show you that while we have done well, other teams have done just as well or even better. We will need to do better to survive.

Its not about being positive or negative just a matter of perspective. Some think we are safe because we have a game in hand and some think it is going to be very difficult to get out of the relegation zone because we are not winning games. We have in last 11 games 14 points, that is a nice haul, but it hasen't been enough to change anything. The run in is going to be very very difficult. We have a chance and we must now take it. The ironic thing is in Jans first 11 comepative games he had won 4 games, drew 2 and lost 5. If they were points games he would have the same points as Wotte. Just more perspective.

Interestingly i was looking on this website i found http://www.zerozerofootball.com/edicao.php It shows the league table after each match (i know stat fans will be happy about that!). Looking at the table of when Jan left which was after the Doncaster game (match day 28 - 17/1/09), the table looked like this 19th - Forest - 30 points 20th - Derby - 29 points 21st - Norwich - 29 points -------------------------------- 22nd - Watford - 27 points 23rd - Saints - 26 points 24th - Charlton - 19 points Compared to the table today 19th - Barnsley - 44 points 20th - Norwich - 43 points 21st - Plymouth - 43 points --------------------------- 22nd - Forest - 41 points 23rd - Saints - 40 points 24th - Charlton - 29 points This is of course the difference after 11 games but it shows you how tough it is to put those games together to get out of the drop zone.

Think this just lacks a bit of knowledge really. Plymouth have beaten Wolves away, Watford and drew with reading in recent weeks. They have just played a Burnley which in my opinion are one of the best teams in this league and are currently top of the form league. A loss to them does not = down.... In their last 7 games they got 8 points so why can't they do that again in their next 7? Forest have won the same amount as we have in the past 6 games in fact we have got just 2 more points them then in the past 6. Their last 2 games have been against Burnley and Wolves which they lost. We have yet to have those fixtures and if current form is anything to go by we will lose, especially seeing as Burnley have scored something like 15 goals in their last 6 games while we have mustered a whopping 6! And this is what people just seem so dumb to see. We have tough games ahead of us against teams all catching some form. We got Charlton a team that are rock bottom and good as down, if we can't beat them at home then how will we beat teams like Wolves away?! We have to play in form Burnley, just those 2 games we would be lucky to get something. So assuming we don't leaves 5 games of which gives 15 points. Seeing as we already need 4 points just to get out leaves 11 points. Basically meaning we must win 4-5 games. I would trade for Plymouth's fixtures any day of the week, Blackpool,Doncaster,Coventry,Barnsley. 4 of their 7 games against teams in the bottom 10 of the table. We are the team that needs to win games. Lose against Charlton and Plymouth beat Blackpool takes them 7 points clear of us. So as i said lose that one and that will be it. It won't mathimatically be over until its over, but i think even the most biased of supporter must admit coming back from 7 points with 6 games of which 2 of those are against possibly the two best teams in the league right now is very very unlikely.

Indeed it does, so gives us 49, which won't be enough considering we need 44 already to just lift us out of the drop zone (or a big GD turn around).

Agree with you, looking at it i think Blackpool,Derby and Watford are safe, would take a big turn around for us to get the 8 points to jump over them. I think it is down to us,Plymouth,Norwich and Forest for the last 2 spots. Looking at the run in i can see Norwich getting wins against Weds and Charlton and draws against Swansea and Watford. Giving them 8 points, making a total of 51 points. Can see Plymouth beating Blackpool and Doncaster and draws against Barnsley and Coventry also giving 8 points with a total of 51. Forest i can see beating Barnsley and drawing with Blackpool,Saints and Coventry getting 6 points meaning a total of 47 points. And with us i can see us beating Charlton and Palace, drawing against Burnley and Weds. Giving 8 points with a total of 48. And i just don't think that will be enough to survive.

Sounded like we were crap for 60-70mins and then came to life in last 20 mins. At the end of the day we have not lost. A loss would have been bad, but a draw is not exactly great. We need wins at this stage of the season. Draws are okay when you are not needing anything to either get promoted or to survive relegation, as someone once said draws are what kill you. 3 points from the last 12 is not good enough. We had a great chance to close the gap today and put things back in our hands with teams around us playing difficult teams. We failed to take advantage of that and that i think has been our problem all season. We are presented with opportunities and we don't take them. We now have a 2 week break. But after that we go into the final run in of the season. First up is Charlton. A 100% must win game, a draw will not be enough as teams around us are also playing each other that weekend. We cannot go into that game with the attitude we have shown in the last 4 games as we will lose. Charlton will be going down this year, if they lose to us it probably will be confirmed so they will be up for it, they will know lose and its over. We can't lose that game. It doesnt matter how results elsewhere go if we don't take our own. So good that the lads didn't lose but we have to win games now. Anything but a win against Charlton and that will be that.

He does say "We are obviously talking about a world class striker, but there are similarities" So he is comparing the two just not in a "BWP is as good as Torres way" that it sounds. I can understand what the guy is saying but BWP is what 24/25 now? Has 5 seasons or so left in him, he has never really forced his way into any side, never really found his level. I think if we go down then next season i would expect him and DMG to be our strikers. That is if we renew his contract of course. The guy never really put his head down and got on with it, never really showed much ambition to succeed. Over the past few seasons BWP has taken a lot of flack but one thing i think annoys people is that as much as you think people will learn from their mistakes BWP doesn't seem to. Like being offside. This is a critical flaw in BWP game, as a striker you need to have the judgement of looking and then going, sort of like crossing the road. He just hasen't been able to get that down. Its a shame really as his dad and brother were/are model proffesionals. Just have that desire to try and make something for themselves. Maybe he should be looking to them for inspiration?

In all honesty unless we get 6 from the next 9 i think we are down before the last game. Next 3 games are as follows Saints = Blackpool (a), Charlton (h), Watford (a). Norwich = Birmingham (a), Sheff Weds (h), Swansea (a) Plymouth = Burnley (h), Blackpool (a), Coventry (h). Barnsley = Derby (a), Forest (h), Sheff Utd (a). Forest = Wolves (h), Barnsley (a), Bristol (h) Of all the teams we have on paper the easiest next 3 games of the relegation candidates. These 3 games in my view will decide our fate. Fail to beat at least 2 of those teams and chances are we will still be 4 points adrift. Then the 4th game we play Wolves away, Norwich play Watford at home. If we get to that game without 6 points and we lose and Norwich win we will be at least 7 points adrift with 4 games left. Meaning if we lose/draw the 5th game against Palace at home we could be confirmed down. If we come out of the next 3 games with less then 6 points we could be confirmed down by the Wolves game. Which sadly i think is why that game was picked for TV.

Yeah but that means from the 8 games we will have got 10 points. Personally i don't think 10 points will be enough. Seeing as we already need 4 points to get out of the drop zone. If we lose at the weekend and say Norwich,Plymouth and Barnsley win would mean 3 teams move further away from us. That then means the team 4th to bottom would be Norwich still with 45 points. Meaning to get out of the drop zone we would need 7 points. Meaning we would need to win 3 of the 8 games and hope Norwich lose 3 games just to get back to level terms. At that point a further loss could push us 10 points adrift and pretty much down. That is where we are at, 1 loss and a group of bad results will push us needing 7 points after saturdays game. That is why we have to win 5 of the 8.

Ah crap lookslike Barnsley will be getting away from us then I think the Blackpool game now is even more important now. We have to win the game not only because we need 4 points to get out of the drop zone but because thankfully fixtures this weekend give us a chance to catch up. Brum play Norwich at home, Derby have Barnsley at home, Forest play Wolves and Plymouth play Burnley. All tough fixtures for the teams around us. Where as we have in comparison a lot easier game. You have to take your chances when it is like this.

If Barnsley win they then go on to 43 points with a game in hand. Meaning 4 points clear of us. Our attention then moves from Forest to Norwich to get out of the drop zone. Who are 3 points clear of us and with a massive 8 goals better goal difference then us. Meaning we would return to needing 4 points to get out of the drop zone. Thus meaning if Barnsley win it will be another big blow to us.

As the most sane people tried to say to Johnny and others there is a long way to go. To assume everything will be ok and that Wotte is a genius etc is way too premature. The guy up to the Brum game had done everything right in my book. After that we seem to have gone backwards. Draws are ok, they are better then losing. We still have 8 games to go and if we win majority of those we will stay up. That is our aim. Survival. In the last 3 games personally i felt we have played just as poor as we have under JP. The JP way of playing a way and not changing it if it is not working seems to have returned. Sometimes you have to be brave with decisions and i don't think we have seen that yet. But there is time, the guy needs all sides behind him. We stand a far greater chance staying up if we all push in the same direction. Wait until after the Forest game to pass judgement. The next 3 games are possibly the most important games in this clubs history. Just as Pearson had with WBA etc.

Have to agree with the above. We have to go above and beyond any form we have probably had in our entire time in the CCC to stay up. The last 2 match days teams around us have slipped up and we failed to take advantage of it. I worry that we could be about to go through another poor form period like before xmas when we had 5 games and nobody around us was winning either. You have to take those chances. If you look at the table only us and Charlton have been in the bottom three for most of the season. The last spot has been passed about by a few teams Watford,Barnsley,Forest,Doncaster,Derby,Norwich etc all those teams have hauled their ass out of there apart from Barnsley, who have 2 games in hand to play. So we need to now go on a big run. If we are playing for draws like the last 3 games seem then that might not be enough, what worries me is if we fall a goal behind can we change our system to get that goal back? 8 games left and we have to say we would need 50% wins at bare minimum from those games. The next game is massive, we lose and Blackpool stay up as they will be 10 points clear of us. If we get 3 points from the next 3 games even if they are all draws then i think with 5 games left we would need a miracle.

Mate Khan was lucky. Mornoic black and white view? Don't be a idiot. Khan has been put on his back by complete bums, journey men who have been put in to be fed to him. Are you telling me that Rachid Drilzane,Willie Limond, Michael Gomez and of course Prescott are all superb fighters because they put Khan down? Barrera had a gigantic cut after being head butted. I would love to see how well you do in the ring against anybody if you have blood stinging your eye and can't see fook all. Even with that Khan never looked like putting Barrera down, his shots looked weak. He has speed and nothing else, i will repeat that for you, he has speed and nothing else. If the cut had not happened Khan would of tired himself out with his hand waving to the crowd exploits. If he gets in the ring with a Marquez,Diaz,Corrales,Mayweather,Pacman, hell even a Castillo. They will splatter him all over the ring. Khan is over-rated, it is Ordinary Harrison part 2 trust me.

I couldn't believe that too, i thought i might have taken something! Wotte in my view was crap today again. I praised the guy after the 3 wins as he deserved it, he got everything right. But the last 2 games he has not really done anything. Our formation/tactics need to change if we can't find a way through, not changing just accepts the score in my view, that is what Jan did.

Last 3 games for the teams Forest = 1 point from 3 games. Meaning 0.33 points per game. Times 7 = projected 2 more points from next 7 games. = 43 points. Plymouth = 1 point from last 3 games. Meaning 0.33 points per game. Times 7 = projected 2 more points from next 7 games. = 45 points. Barnsley = 1 point from last 3 games. meaning 0.33 points per game. Times 10 = projected 3 more points from next 10 games. = 43 points. Norwich = 6 points from last 3 games. Meaning 2 points a game. Times 7 = projected 14 more points from next 7 games. = 56 points. Saints = 2 points from last 3 games. = 0.66 points per game. Times 8 = projected 5 more points from next 8 games. = 44 points. So if the last 3 games form wise follows through to the end Saints would survive by 1 point. However think we have to be honest in that chances of the other teams staying as they are is pretty low. But i would take it for sure if someone offered it right now!

Whats the form table/projection looklike from the last 3 games? Because those 3 wins seem a long long way away now. We are not playing anything like that anymore. If we re-create our last 8 games results we will be down for sure. 11 points from 24 will not be enough, especially considering we need 3 points just to haul our ass out of it already. If we do that then get 8 points from 21 on offer i can't see us surviving.

Agree with you Soccermum. We were very lucky to come away with a point for the second home game in a row i felt. What has happened to us? We had 3 really good results matched with good performances and now we have had 3 dire ones? This game was almost as awful as the Derby game. We looked clueless and if we played until this time next year with no opponents on the pitch we still wouldn't of created anything. 2 points from the last 9, 2 of those home games not looking good at all. Blackpool winning was a big blow for us as Barnsley have 2 games in hand on us so chances are they will get out of it. 4 massive points that have passed us by. On current form i don't think the last game of the season vs Forest will matter at all as we will both be down by then. Whoever it was who once said draws are what kill you was right. We got a week off now until the Blackpool game. In midweek Barnsley play one of their games in hand. We have to beat Blackpool, that for me is the game of games. Lose/draw that one and i think we would need to win 5 of the 7 to stay up and that will not happen.