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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

It will be interesting to see what happens if club folds after the HMRC hearing and he just demolishes the stadium. What will Pompey Council say, the land can only be used for leisure purposes?

 

There is an organisation in Horton Heath looking to move their 'leisure' business I believe

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Pancake

Pancake

Posted
Posted
Ive been thinking about this, and thinking about the link between some of the people that are lending them money and the previous owners.

 

Say you owned 100% of a company that looked like it was about to go tits up. You knew that if it did, you were going to get NOTHING from it, you would lose everything. Money is owed to the Bank too. So say you got together a few associates. Say you sold the company to one of them for a £1 or so. They knew what they were buying. The new 'owner' then negotiated to pay off the bank loans with future money that was coming in. The Banks are now happy, the only outstandings are some tax and player cash still owed - small change when thinking of the overall worth of the business. Say you and some of your associates then "lend" the said company some "money", vast amounts, all drawn up properly as loan notes. So now you have a shell company owned by someone you know, and lost of different investors who you also know through various ventures - all of whom will be considered creditors if the company goes bust.

 

So, the company goes go into administration. The Administrators manage to sell it off for a small percentage of its actual worth - but the important thing is that is actually sold, something that no-one could manage wih the business before. The "investors" get back X% of their "investment"....

 

Today's news is certainly "interesting". Ive quoted myself for no apparent reason, just by accident. Apart from the Admin bit...

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

I am still convinced that Gaydamak senior is and always was behind Pompey, and this whole saga has been about paying off his debt to Chanrai.

Whether it is a brilliant masterplan coming to fruition or Chanrai getting well & truly stitched up is less certain, but there is no way that all of these mysterious people circling round the club are there at the invitation of the Arab 'owner.'

Every one of them is linked, if by nothing else, religion, to Gaydamak. Why would a Nepalese businessman with no interest in football chuck money at a mess like Poopey. The one thing I do agree with the Skate fans over is the deafening silence from the Premier League. Everything about it is rotten to the core but all they utter are weaselly statements about clarifying the convicted fraudsters obviously pivotal role. I am convinced that their whole policy is based on praying for relegation, but if they don't go down it could get messier yet

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Merovingian

Merovingian

Posted
Posted

As I understand it unless things have changed he is not interested in owning the club long term ( shame coz him and Levi Kushnir (sp) have serious money ) He will sell it on I suspect, however he will at least more than likely put the club in order, at least see wages are paid per month and ensure we do not get wound up or go into liquidaton. He may even stick around long enough for us to go down and gamble on spending the parachute payment to get us back up to see his chance of selling us for more in 2 years increase.

 

Whichever way its nothing to get excited about as far as the long term future goes but what it does mean is we should ( hopefully ) have a club in time to beat you boys ;) and finish the season

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

There are a couple of questions.

 

1) Whose 'side' is Chainrai on? Was his loan to Pompey, a genuine loan, or was it related to Gaydamak's presence at the club. If so was Chainrai trying to move frozen money back to Arcadi (via sacha) or was he aggressively trying to stake a claim over some of Arcadi's assets?

 

If with Gaydamak: is this takeover smoke to delay HMRC? As for Pompey, can we only assume the asset stripping will continue?

 

If against Gaydamak: will Arcadi fight back (via either one of his stooges Sacha, or Al Mirage)? Will Gaydamak now join the winding up petition to spite Chainrai? If Chainrai is indeed against Gaydamak, can we assume that it's money he's after not football (or is status important? 'look at me, owning your house, driving your car while your in excile and can only look on'?). Problem Chainrai will have is how to get his money out of the club before liquidation... I'd assume that facing the legal issues of sales might be preferable to needing to throw good money after bad?

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

if the arms dealer and Chanrai are in it together there isn't enough money to go round, if they are against each other Chanria has left himself exposed to a massive legal battle.

 

how do we define 'seized' control?

 

Has he taken the security (the ground, and if he can persuade the court that his later claim is valid, all of the assets) against his debt that they have defaulted on?

Or passed a fit and proper person test and taken ownership of the club with the full approval of the Prem?

 

He can't just stand up one day and declare himself the new owner.

He is either the mother of all baillifs OR a new owner.

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slickmick

slickmick

Posted
Posted

£60M in debt.

£20 odd million to Chainrai, that brings the debt to £40m.

Of that £40m, £27m is owed to Gadymank (to whom Chainrai is sueing Gadymank snr for £17m).

So Chainrai could be using this against Gadymank snr.

 

That could mean that once the HMRC debt has been paid, Poopey's debts are in the region of £6m.

Have I got this right ?

If so it looks like they might get away with it again.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted

Assuming Chainrai gives financial stability to the FC in the short term I believe this will lead to stability on the field. Portsmouth are only 6 points from 17th place and looking at their recent performances I am convinced there are at least 3 teams worse thn them and I can see them surviving at the end of the season.

 

To me the car crash was not as bad as we thought it would be. No more rubber necking from me. Time to get eyes back fully on Saints and enjoy the smooth and stable ride Leibherr & Cortese are giving us.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
As I understand it unless things have changed he is not interested in owning the club long term ( shame coz him and Levi Kushnir (sp) have serious money ) He will sell it on I suspect, however he will at least more than likely put the club in order, at least see wages are paid per month and ensure we do not get wound up or go into liquidaton. He may even stick around long enough for us to go down and gamble on spending the parachute payment to get us back up to see his chance of selling us for more in 2 years increase.

 

Whichever way its nothing to get excited about as far as the long term future goes but what it does mean is we should ( hopefully ) have a club in time to beat you boys ;) and finish the season

 

The question is not if he is interested in the club long term as is he interested in owning the club short term? As pointed out above to get you out of your current hole will take a fair amount of cash and its by no means certain that he would find a buyer unless the debts can be reduced substantially and its had to see how he can do all that and still come out with the money he has put in, let alone a profit.

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Merovingian

Merovingian

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Or passed a fit and proper person test and taken ownership of the club with the full approval of the Prem?

 

 

SSN confirm subject to Chainrai passing FPPT he is new owner of the club from PFC spokes person.

 

he will breeze ther FAPP compared with the other owners this year

Edited by Pancake
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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
£60M in debt.

£20 odd million to Chainrai, that brings the debt to £40m.

Of that £40m, £27m is owed to Gadymank (to whom Chainrai is sueing Gadymank snr for £17m).

So Chainrai could be using this against Gadymank snr.

 

That could mean that once the HMRC debt has been paid, Poopey's debts are in the region of £6m.

Have I got this right ?

If so it looks like they might get away with it again.

 

Sounds about right if he keeps the club but if he wants to sell he will want he 20 million back plus the 17m from the 'settlement'. So to buy them someone would still have to stump up 40+ million. Plus as I said above we are discussing only the major single debts but they have obviously run up an awful lot of smaller debts which together probably run into several millions as well. They also have £14M in delayed transfer payments to make in the near future I believe?

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
There are a couple of questions.

 

1) Whose 'side' is Chainrai on? Was his loan to Pompey, a genuine loan, or was it related to Gaydamak's presence at the club. If so was Chainrai trying to move frozen money back to Arcadi (via sacha) or was he aggressively trying to stake a claim over some of Arcadi's assets?

 

If with Gaydamak: is this takeover smoke to delay HMRC? As for Pompey, can we only assume the asset stripping will continue?

 

If against Gaydamak: will Arcadi fight back (via either one of his stooges Sacha, or Al Mirage)? Will Gaydamak now join the winding up petition to spite Chainrai? If Chainrai is indeed against Gaydamak, can we assume that it's money he's after not football (or is status important? 'look at me, owning your house, driving your car while your in excile and can only look on'?). Problem Chainrai will have is how to get his money out of the club before liquidation... I'd assume that facing the legal issues of sales might be preferable to needing to throw good money after bad?

 

Good questions, I have always held the view that they are still buddies, and this is all a big play, it's all about money. They have had the PL over, but I just don't know how, that is me, the HMRC/goverment the PL/FA/UAFA/FIFA, the fans/media, and the football world in general. I'll add a question...how can he just take control, without passing the PL's fantastic and fact findind F & PPT.

 

Ten years ago anyone!!!!!!!!!!

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

 

"Chainrai has a charge on the property, not a charge on the club, so I would say that he is not the owner of the club, nor is he seeking to be."

 

That's not what the text of the second loan implies (assuming the guardian article was correct). The first loan of 20 million was against the property but the latter one was against the club. I suppose they are arguing they are late with payments on the 20 million but not on the 7 million on the club?

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greg_hill

greg_hill

Posted
Posted
I wouldnt be surprised to find out Thaksin Shiniwatra has been behind this the whole time.

 

If so then Pompey's troubles will only get worse. Thaksin is due for trial in absentia at the end of this month in the Thailand Supreme Court. If found guilty - and he will be, for political reasons - a huge chunk of his financial assets will be conviscated.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
at the same time we are due a fair bit aswell pedg, Diarra, Johnson etc were all structured deals over a number of years, no one pays the whole lot cash up front

 

However, unfortunately I believe the money you are due to pay out on transfers is in the nearer future. I guess someone might lend you money against transfer income due in the future but who is to say this has not already happened as if they could it would appear to be the easiest way of clearing the debt to HMRC?

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

So according to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1248397/Portsmouth-confirm-FOURTH-owner-season-Balram-Chainrai-seizes-control-Fratton-Park-Ali-Al-Faraj.html

 

Chainrai's plans for the club are as yet unconfirmed but he is said to be intent on stabilising Pompey's dire financial situation before searching for new investors.

 

Chainrai said: 'To help Portsmouth succeed we need the support and understanding of Her Majesty's Revenue to work out a solution.'

No. you don't need the support and understanding of HMRC you just need to pay them the money they are due!

 

Why is it anyone with money taking over there appears to leave their wallet at home when it comes to these things?

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)
I guess we'll know for sure which bed Chainrai lies in depending on what happens to Jacob & Azouri (sp?)

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Gaydamak-happy-with-new-man.6042523.jp

Glenn Cooper, Sacha Gaydamak's financier said he thinks the change in ownership is good news for the club.

 

'He secured loans on the shares owned by Al-Faraj and now as 90 per cent shareholder of the club he owns and runs it. By law he can get rid of management or the directors.

 

'I think supporters will take the view that any change has to be an improvement.

 

'We will be talking to Mr Chainrai once he has settled in. Portsmouth City Football Limited owe the money to us. We continue to own the land which surrounds Fratton Park so Mr Chainrai will want to talk to us.'

 

Fairly clear that he expects a lot of the board to get the boot.

Edited by pedg
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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
If Chanrai negotiated with last owners his lien on the loan AFTER the Winding Up Order would that not invalidate that agreement as it could be construed as nothing more than leveraging preferred creditor status?

 

Only if he doesn't pay off the debt. If the debt remains then I think you're right that he would need the courts permission to take charge and HMRC would not allow that without being paid in full.

 

With regards to whose side he is on, it will be interesting to see what Sacha Gaydemak's reaction will be. If Chainrai is anti-Gaydemak then surely Sacha will add his name to the list on the WUO and mean Chainrai will have to stick his hand in his pocket to maintain control. With HMRC debt, Sacha and wages until the end of the season that would be close to £50m - just to recover £20m. That wouldn't make sense (but then does anything down the road these days?)

 

My bet is that Gaydemak won't be added to the WUO - which just adds more credence to Gaydemak/Chainrai are playing on the same side.

 

Edit: From the BBC article

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8497491.stm

 

"New directors will be appointed to the board and Peter Storrie will remain as chief executive and will be running the club."

 

"The thing is, for people like Chainrai and former owner Sacha Gaydamak that the money they have put into the club would be lost if Portsmouth went into liquidation."

 

No more evidence yer honour.

Edited by Gorgiesaint
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$$$

$$$

Posted
Posted

"Chainrai has a charge on the property, not a charge on the club, so I would say that he is not the owner of the club, nor is he seeking to be."

 

That's not what the text of the second loan implies (assuming the guardian article was correct). The first loan of 20 million was against the property but the latter one was against the club. I suppose they are arguing they are late with payments on the 20 million but not on the 7 million on the club?

 

But when have you ever known a journalist to be 100% correct?

 

What I find interesting is how he can apparently click his fingers and suddenly take possession of poopey. Surely this would require a court order? Also guardian yesterday said the two loans amounted to £20m total.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
Solent just said on the news that Prem League have said that Chanrai would have to be approved by them before a takeover is approved.

 

Not out of jail yet Skates...

 

In fairness though, I sincerely doubt that will be a problem! haha.

 

Looks like our derby game will be going ahead.

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
SSN confirm subject to Chainrai passing FPPT he is new owner of the club from PFC spokes person.

 

he will breeze ther FAPP compared with the other owners this year

Well, he should be OK with the third part, at least.

 

It seems that this new owner IS a person.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Gaydamak-happy-with-new-man.6042523.jp

Glenn Cooper, Sacha Gaydamak's financier said he thinks the change in ownership is good news for the club.

 

'He secured loans on the shares owned by Al-Faraj and now as 90 per cent shareholder of the club he owns and runs it. By law he can get rid of management or the directors.

 

'I think supporters will take the view that any change has to be an improvement.

 

'We will be talking to Mr Chainrai once he has settled in. Portsmouth City Football Limited owe the money to us. We continue to own the land which surrounds Fratton Park so Mr Chainrai will want to talk to us.'

 

Fairly clear that he expects a lot of the board to get the boot.

 

Actions over the coming days vs words in a skate rag?

 

Anyhow, what's this Glenn Cooper's side of the deal? If the Gaydamaks' and Chainrai are at each other's throats then why issue a public statement saying Chainrai is 'good news for the club'? (Double bluff? Direct blame away from Sacha?).

 

Of course if Arcadi and Jr are in bed with Chainrai (what an image!), why not be quick of the mark to attempt to misdirect the inevitable suspicion that will be directed towards Sacha if the directors don't get changed?

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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
yep and Chainrai has at least been to Fratton Park for a game a few times

 

in summary, are skates happier than yesterday or not?

 

seems there could be some optimism with new owner

 

but owner is only owner as club defaulted on loan and has said he does not want to keep club?

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
But when have you ever known a journalist to be 100% correct?

 

What I find interesting is how he can apparently click his fingers and suddenly take possession of poopey. Surely this would require a court order? Also guardian yesterday said the two loans amounted to £20m total.

 

I think i did get my figures mixed up a bit but the point is there are two loans, an earlier larger one against the ground and a later smaller one against everything else. One would guess to claim both due to lack of payment there would have to lack of payment on both?

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Merovingian

Merovingian

Posted
Posted
in summary, are skates happier than yesterday or not?

 

seems there could be some optimism with new owner

 

but owner is only owner as club defaulted on loan and has said he does not want to keep club?

 

in terms of financial stability it is the best we could have hoped for between now and the end of the season as I hope and suspect he will keep the club running as a going concern as he will want to sell.

 

in terms of being easier to sell it should also help if we stablise finances and pay players and the HMRC

 

In the short term I can only see this as better than the previous regime, who cares about the politics its the financial aspect that requires attention and by whom no one cares as long as it is addressed

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
I was going to post a flippant comment about Stoke, with their cultural background, agreeing to pay part of the fee for Begovic in pots, after learning that there is a shortage of pots at Fratton Park, particularly among its owners.

 

But in the light of the Grauniad article (if it's true), particularly the second charge that Portpin have registered on 7th January, it is now all over for PFC, so that would be in bad taste.

 

There is absolutely no chance of them getting their hands on any of the cash. It will either be diverted by the PL to pay other clubs, and perhaps the VAT portion of the incoming fees directly to HMRC, or grabbed by Chanrai. If the charge is what Conn says it is (and he quotes the date it was registered and even quotes from the content, so it seems likely), it's game over. They'll either go into liquidation very soon, probably next week, or if they're very lucky administration before that.

 

Unless an exiled Israeli-Russian arms dealer has a quiet word in the ear of a Hong Kong businessman.

 

I believe that the real truth, although we will never know it, lies in the true beneficial ownership of Falcondrone, which is coincidentally (another one?) registered in the same jurisdiction as Portpin.

 

All just IMHO, of course.

Hmmmmm

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
in terms of financial stability it is the best we could have hoped for between now and the end of the season as I hope and suspect he will keep the club running as a going concern as he will want to sell.

 

in terms of being easier to sell it should also help if we stablise finances and pay players and the HMRC

 

In the short term I can only see this as better than the previous regime, who cares about the politics its the financial aspect that requires attention and by whom no one cares as long as it is addressed

 

The one attributed quote says:

 

Chainrai said: 'To help Portsmouth succeed we need the support and understanding of Her Majesty's Revenue to work out a solution.'

Which sounds more like trying to put HMRC off wanting full payment than actually stumping up the money. Plus again as I said above to get to the end of the season they are going to have to pay an awful lot of smaller bills along the with big ones. If they have been putting off things like the electricity bill for a considerable period then those together are going to be a very significant figure.

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
Well, he should be OK with the third part, at least.

 

It seems that this new owner IS a person.

 

And, unusually in this farce, one with money!

 

Albeit his only interest is getting paid what he owes - my guess is that short-term, high value loans as quoted would be at a very high APR so whether 17 million or 20 you are talking tens of thousands per day in interest alone so 17 wouldn't take long to become 20 if you follow.

 

I still think that there is little chance of there being anything to have at the end of the day....I still can't work out how he can make himself/his company a preferred creditor over all the others who are owed millions - nor necessarily why he would pay the HMRC debt if his charge was originally against the 'assets' which would appear to have a negative value?

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