sotonjoe Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 I had a good look at him yesterday and was amazed to see how unaware he still is with regards to finding himself offside. At times, he was jogging along, a clear yard offside, with large numbers of supporters screaming at him to get back onside. Surprise surprise, he doesn't and the whistle goes! Has there actually been any improvement over the past few games? This is not the case of him being too quick etc, I'm talking times when he is following the line of defenders at a medium pace, but it still a good foot or so the wrong side of them. It's as if he has his eye on the Saints player in possession and forgets all about the line of defenders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 25 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Good! TBF I can't see how it could have been any worse ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 I had a good look at him yesterday and was amazed to see how unaware he still is with regards to finding himself offside. At times, he was jogging along, a clear yard offside, with large numbers of supporters screaming at him to get back onside. Surprise surprise, he doesn't and the whistle goes! Has there actually been any improvement over the past few games? This is not the case of him being too quick etc, I'm talking times when he is following the line of defenders at a medium pace, but it still a good foot or so the wrong side of them. It's as if he has his eye on the Saints player in possession and forgets all about the line of defenders! Was he offside for the goal? I assume he was but couldn't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Good! TBF I can't see how it could have been any worse ;-) I said no as in, his offside play hasn't got any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 25 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 October, 2009 I said no as in, his offside play hasn't got any better. Yeh, and I was thinking a 'phew' as in "for it to have got better it would have had to have been worse at some stage" and I can't see how it could have been worse because it is still so bad. if that makes any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 25 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Was he offside for the goal? I assume he was but couldn't see. i'm not sure, i was too excited by that point. I was sat in block 32 though and had a good opportunity to see how clueless he was when we were attacking the northam end in the first half. It's amazing how everybody in that part of the ground can see it , and yet he has clearly lost his head in the build up. It needs to improve soon or he'll find himself frozen out. Antonion did a great job when he came on, admittedly as part of a different system. But if Waigo can't do the job he's beine asked to do, then he won't be starting games much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Luke Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 I was watching him on the goal that was diasallowed and he was definitely offside by about half a yard. It looked like he steps behind the defender so he can see what's happening - derrrr! I didn't celebrate the goal cos I knew that as soon as I looked over to the lino that his flag would be up and it was. His other glaring one was also int eh first half, ball pinged over from the other side and he was miles off. Pards and the gang need to work on the with him so that he can sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 maybe the crowd need to tell him in French as he can't understand English anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 maybe the crowd need to tell him in French as he can't understand English anyway OK.. "OI. P A P A. Y-O-U A-R-E O-F-F-S-I-D-E. Comprendez??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 OK.. "OI. P A P A. Y-O-U A-R-E O-F-F-S-I-D-E. Comprendez??" OOH LA LA PAPA Vous êtes offside Comprendez?? Merci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 i noticed this for the bristol rovers game...I was 'assured' by the resident experts that he was drifiting aimlessly offside as he was used to playing in serie A and the the ball through were not quick enough.. when that was basically a load of crap and he was actually aimlessly offside.. he is a funny player and provides good unpredictability.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolo Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 papa kills the game with his aimless offsides!!! We were builind up a head of steam and then it all goes when he can't even be bothered to follow the line. so frustrating!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 We lost the momentum in the first half after that disallowed goal. He was offside, but I thought it was Trotman that headed it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 No. x2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Was he offside for the goal? I assume he was but couldn't see. No, he wasn't. There was another player who was inactive who caused the offside. There was also another three occasions when Waigo wasn't offside when the lino flagged. He is very deceptive and sometimes looks very offiside unless you keep an eye on him, and not the ball, all the time. If you look at the ball first, when it is struck, and then at Waigo, he looks yards offside, but he isn't always. Yesterday I had the pleasure of sitting in line with the offside and am, I'm afraid, at variance with a very biased or semiblind lino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 I had a good look at him yesterday and was amazed to see how unaware he still is with regards to finding himself offside. At times, he was jogging along, a clear yard offside, with large numbers of supporters screaming at him to get back onside. Surprise surprise, he doesn't and the whistle goes! Has there actually been any improvement over the past few games? This is not the case of him being too quick etc, I'm talking times when he is following the line of defenders at a medium pace, but it still a good foot or so the wrong side of them. It's as if he has his eye on the Saints player in possession and forgets all about the line of defenders! Quick reply.......................................NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 OOH LA LA PAPA Vous êtes offside Comprendez?? Merci hors-jeu=offside if you ever bump into him;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 No, he wasn't. There was another player who was inactive who caused the offside. There was also another three occasions when Waigo wasn't offside when the lino flagged. He is very deceptive and sometimes looks very offiside unless you keep an eye on him, and not the ball, all the time. If you look at the ball first, when it is struck, and then at Waigo, he looks yards offside, but he isn't always. Yesterday I had the pleasure of sitting in line with the offside and am, I'm afraid, at variance with a very biased or semiblind lino. Quote of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Have to say there were several times when he was flagged off-side first half when he was on. Several other times when he was actually flagged, he was holding his run and position, only for the through ball to be delayed and therefore catching him off (not his thought). I would say his quickness of mind (playing at a higher level) is greater than that of many around him. For the 'goal' it was marginal but that linesman was never ever going to give the benefit of doubt to the attacking team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 During the build up for the disallowed goal Waigo drifted into offside positions about 4 times coming back onside but due to the rule still offside if next becomes active which he did when he touched the ball, so he was rightly flagged offside. I didn't even need to look at the linesman who immediately flagged, I didn't stand up as I knew he was offside and the 'goal' wouldn't count. When he is wide and coming in from wide he can see along the line, but as soon as he comes inside he is unaware of the last defender's position and worse isn't checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 25 October, 2009 Share Posted 25 October, 2009 Watch him next time, he sets off into space very quickly when we have the ball, well before most of our our players have spotted him. The disallowed goal this week was the result of Harding taking an extra touch before putting the ball across. In the last home game, Kelvin got the ball, Papa set off in his own half and by the time KD had dithered and finally spotted him Papa was well offside. Give him his due, he is sharper than most of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Watch him next time, he sets off into space very quickly when we have the ball, well before most of our our players have spotted him. The disallowed goal this week was the result of Harding taking an extra touch before putting the ball across. In the last home game, Kelvin got the ball, Papa set off in his own half and by the time KD had dithered and finally spotted him Papa was well offside. Give him his due, he is sharper than most of our players. This is what I object to as I think it simply isn't true. There was one off side given against him in this manner during the first half (that I saw anyway). Waigo had actually started his lightning run before the other saints player had received the ball, therefore he had no chance of actually playing the ball to Waigo before Waigo ended up in an offside position. In this particular instance, Waigo again needs to judge his run better and it is not a case of Saints players being too slow for him. For the most part though, we're talking about different situations. The ones referred to in the op are when you have a line of defenders running back and an attacker in the middle of them. The ball is out on the wing in the possession of wingers etc. There is no element of the attacker (wiago) having out run the defenders etc as they should all be in a line. At these times he drifts offside constantly; and here the emphasis is on DRIFT, he's not making a sprint ready to recveive a pass that has yet to be played, he's just losing trackof where the line is and finding himself at least a foot the wrong side. Your argument about him just being too quick just doesn't work with what is actually happening out on the pitch imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Luke Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 He was definitely offside for the goal. I was in block 34 row G and he was goalside of the defender before the ball was played, when the ball was played and after the ball was played. Not by much, but by enough. I'm sure that he will learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirleySaint Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 What an amazing discussion. A whole thread about offside, but not one poster says how many offsides were given against Saints and how many of them Waigo was responsible for. Can someone give us these facts, so that a sensisble discussion can take place about Waigo's tendency to 'drift offside' or alternatively his ability to 'beat the offside trap' can take place. Incidentally I sit in the Northam end of the Kingsland and for what it's worth althought I saw the Linos flag go up quite early in the play I didn't think any of our players were offside for Waigo's goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 A whole thread about offside, but not one poster says how many offsides were given against Saints and how many of them Waigo was responsible for. Can someone give us these facts, so that a sensisble discussion can take place about Waigo's tendency to 'drift offside' or alternatively his ability to 'beat the offside trap' can take place. I'm not sure that's necessary and perhaps you are being a little facetious. It's common opinion that Waigo finds himself offside on many occasions. People have noticed it without needing to provide statistics to reinforce any feeling so that says something itself. Waigo vs the offside rule has been something of a running debate on here since he joined and I was amazed that he still looked relatively unaware yesterday after having been a part of the english game for some weeks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Having watched him carefully to identify the cause of this specific issue over the course of the last month or so, I can confirm that Waigo's offsides are predominantly due to a failure to stand in an onside position at most points of any given Saints attack, rather than some elevated ability to make unanticipated runs that his teammates see too late. In short, he is offside because he is bad, not because he is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I was amazed that he still looked relatively unaware yesterday after having been a part of the english game for some weeks now. They have offside abroad too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 This is what I object to as I think it simply isn't true. There was one off side given against him in this manner during the first half (that I saw anyway). Waigo had actually started his lightning run before the other saints player had received the ball, therefore he had no chance of actually playing the ball to Waigo before Waigo ended up in an offside position. In this particular instance, Waigo again needs to judge his run better and it is not a case of Saints players being too slow for him. For the most part though, we're talking about different situations. The ones referred to in the op are when you have a line of defenders running back and an attacker in the middle of them. The ball is out on the wing in the possession of wingers etc. There is no element of the attacker (wiago) having out run the defenders etc as they should all be in a line. At these times he drifts offside constantly; and here the emphasis is on DRIFT, he's not making a sprint ready to recveive a pass that has yet to be played, he's just losing trackof where the line is and finding himself at least a foot the wrong side. Your argument about him just being too quick just doesn't work with what is actually happening out on the pitch imo. Of course he is not just a winger here, waiting on the touch-line for the ball. The way the team is now set up, Lambert, Papa, Schneiderlin, and Lallana play in a rotating diamond. I am not saying all his runs are good, but you must consider how much slower the pace of the game is at this level, not the tempo, the pace, and speed of pass and movement. He has been training / playing in Serie A. The pace of League 1, the incisiveness of the passing, and the speed of thought at this level is miles behind that of the top flight in any of the main European Leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 Of course he is not just a winger here, waiting on the touch-line for the ball. The way the team is now set up, Lambert, Papa, Schneiderlin, and Lallana play in a rotating diamond. I am not saying all his runs are good, but you must consider how much slower the pace of the game is at this level, not the tempo, the pace, and speed of pass and movement. He has been training / playing in Serie A. The pace of League 1, the incisiveness of the passing, and the speed of thought at this level is miles behind that of the top flight in any of the main European Leagues. None of this is particularly relevant if you just accept that about half the time he wanders a couple of yards behind the last defender for absolutely no good reason and often stays there. It has absolutely nothing to do with midfielders not seeing his runs, as he begins a large chunk of those runs from offside positions in the first place. All that said, I think he offers us a different kind of skill and he's a useful addition, it's still going to take a little time for him to fit the team's pattern and he made a lot of effort at closing down on Saturday so advances are being made - it's just easier for Pardew to coach Antonio at the moment, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 None of this is particularly relevant if you just accept that about half the time he wanders a couple of yards behind the last defender for absolutely no good reason and often stays there. It has absolutely nothing to do with midfielders not seeing his runs, as he begins a large chunk of those runs from offside positions in the first place. exactly. this is exactly what i've been thinking. And tbf, I don't remember the pace of play in serie a being lightning fast either .. from watching it that is, not playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 They have offside abroad too! i suppose the only difference is that in Italy most teams play with a sweeper and defences lay deep so offside is not actually "played for" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 October, 2009 Share Posted 26 October, 2009 I watched Connolly when he came on and the difference was remarkable. He was constantly adjusting his position relative to the centre backs to make sure that he stayed onside. Papa just drifts about hanging somewhere near his defender. He is clearly not aware of how to stay onside or how to time his runs so as to stay onside. I have seen him flagged offside several times and every decision looked correct to me. Let's face it, the fellow on the touchline is in the best position to see and has been practising these sorts of decisions for several years. It's amazing how many times they are analyzed in slow-motion and found to be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 26 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 26 October, 2009 i suppose the only difference is that in Italy most teams play with a sweeper and defences lay deep so offside is not actually "played for" An interesting point and, if true, quite possibly more of a factor than Waigo's 'lightning quick' runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 27 October, 2009 Share Posted 27 October, 2009 I watched Connolly when he came on and the difference was remarkable. He was constantly adjusting his position relative to the centre backs to make sure that he stayed onside. Papa just drifts about hanging somewhere near his defender. He is clearly not aware of how to stay onside or how to time his runs so as to stay onside. I have seen him flagged offside several times and every decision looked correct to me. Let's face it, the fellow on the touchline is in the best position to see and has been practising these sorts of decisions for several years. It's amazing how many times they are analyzed in slow-motion and found to be correct. I've been waiting so long for someone to say something like this that I don't really know what to say. Well done this man, the fact is the refs get around 90%+ of their decisions correct and it is incredibly difficult skill to be watching the ball when it is struck, the last defender and to see if the ball goes out of play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 October, 2009 Share Posted 27 October, 2009 Massive, massive lol at "Because he is sometimes offside he is a bad player". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 October, 2009 Share Posted 27 October, 2009 i suppose the only difference is that in Italy most teams play with a sweeper and defences lay deep so offside is not actually "played for" That's a good point. Not everybody plays with a flat back four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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