Made in Southampton Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Guy on Talksport just said that if Pompey go bust then the teams they beat in the cup would all go into a hat to see who would play Birmingham. Didn't say where he found this info from though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Irrelevant anyway, they won't go bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnetSaint Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 not gonna happen i'm afraid-by hook or more likely crook-they will somehow survive, storrieteller confident he has some mug lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 not gonna happen i'm afraid-by hook or more likely crook-they will somehow survive, storrieteller confident he has some mug lined up. And Chainrai has said that come what may he will save the club, stupid **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Guy on Talksport just said that if Pompey go bust then the teams they beat in the cup would all go into a hat to see who would play Birmingham. Didn't say where he found this info from though. Your sentence is undermined by the first 3 words. The answer to "where he found the info" is "he made it up loosely based on some half-baked facts". Just like the Echo article. They HAVE done "lucky loser", but only when Man U decided not to bother in '99/2000 and even then it was everyone who lost in the previous round, so the precedent is weak, and practically every other cup competition I know of just gives out walkovers for teams unable to fulfil fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Irrelevant anyway, they won't go bust. I have to say if things don't turn out well for them on March 1st I'm going to enjoy this "told you so" more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 I have to say if things don't turn out well for them on March 1st I'm going to enjoy this "told you so" more than most. Look forward to that one then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Look forward to that one then Well, you're in a win-win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 lol @ people thinking they will go bust. Anyone fancy a tenner bet?? LOL@people who don't understand how insolvency works. But no, I'd be annoyed enough if they weasel out of it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Your sentence is undermined by the first 3 words. The answer to "where he found the info" is "he made it up loosely based on some half-baked facts". Just like the Echo article. They HAVE done "lucky loser", but only when Man U decided not to bother in '99/2000 and even then it was everyone who lost in the previous round, so the precedent is weak, and practically every other cup competition I know of just gives out walkovers for teams unable to fulfil fixtures. Meh ... beat me to it .... now if it had been a bloke down the pub last night, or the taxi driver told me .... I'd have been getting excited!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 lol @ people thinking they will go bust. Anyone fancy a tenner bet?? Yes please? Make it £20 if you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 A couple of nights before on Talksport Danny Kelly was saying the opposite that Birmingham will get a bye. This morning on Radio 5 the sports presenter said that 'Peter Storrie was confident he had found a buyer for a Southampton takeover' then corrected himself and said ''a buyer from South Africa to takeover Pompey'. I shat myself when I heard, still I was on the toilet at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Guy on Talksport just said that if Pompey go bust then the teams they beat in the cup would all go into a hat to see who would play Birmingham. Didn't say where he found this info from though. Do they actually use a hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Laughed at the little article in the Sunday Express rag yesterday (Page 118 "Still hope for Saints") that inferred that Saints might be reinstated if Pompey are liquidated on 1st March. (1) Pompey will not be liquidated (they may well go into Admin) and (2) we would not be reinstated under any circumstances other than a finding that they fielded an illegible player or broke some other competition rule. It is quite simple if they were unable to fulfil the fixture Birmingham would be awarded a walkover, but it ain't gonna happen, and quite frankly anyone who wishes this on even our deadliest rivals is a little bit sick, it wasn't so long ago the boot was on the other foot. In any case, I would not want Saints to be reinstated under any circumstances. we lost, end of. Now the cup run is over (and I enjoyed it while it lasted) I wouldn't want us to have to now consider playing against Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Laughed at the little article in the Sunday Express rag yesterday (Page 118 "Still hope for Saints") that inferred that Saints might be reinstated if Pompey are liquidated on 1st March. (1) Pompey will not be liquidated (they may well go into Admin) and (2) we would not be reinstated under any circumstances other than a finding that they fielded an illegible player or broke some other competition rule. It is quite simple if they were unable to fulfil the fixture Birmingham would be awarded a walkover, but it ain't gonna happen, and quite frankly anyone who wishes this on even our deadliest rivals is a little bit sick, it wasn't so long ago the boot was on the other foot. In any case, I would not want Saints to be reinstated under any circumstances. we lost, end of. Now the cup run is over (and I enjoyed it while it lasted) I wouldn't want us to have to now consider playing against Birmingham. Story Teller confirmed today that the SOA says they are insolvent. The SOA started to be compiled prior to our match. In the FA rules any club that is insolvent is not allowed to compete in the FA Cup. Therefore, technically, they fielded 11 illegible players (plus subs) against us. However, if our dreams do come true they cease to exist next Monday I am certain that Brum will get a bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilsburydoughboy Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Do they actually use a hat? Yes infact it is a dutch cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 Story Teller confirmed today that the SOA says they are insolvent. The SOA started to be compiled prior to our match. In the FA rules any club that is insolvent is not allowed to compete in the FA Cup. Therefore, technically, they fielded 11 illegible players (plus subs) against us. However, if our dreams do come true they cease to exist next Monday I am certain that Brum will get a bye. Too much disinformation floating about, it took two mins to find the FA rule below, you can play on in the cup at the decretion of the FA. Also there is a difference between being insolvent or being in effect insolvent. 5f.If any Club when applying to enter the Competition, or at any time during the course of the Competition becomes subject to any of the following insolvency events: i.a manager, receiver or administrative receiver appointed in respect of that Club or any part of its undertaking or assets; ii.an administration order made in respect of that Club; iii.a winding up order made in respect of that Club; or iv.entering into any arrangement with its creditors or some part of them in respect of the payment of its debts or part of them as a company voluntary arrangement under the Insolvency Act 1986 or Scheme of Arrangement under the Companies Act 1985. that Club must notify the Council immediately in writing. The Council will (at its absolute discretion) then decide whether to accept the application and/or allow that Club to continue to compete in the Competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 22 February, 2010 Share Posted 22 February, 2010 lol @ people thinking they will go bust. Anyone fancy a tenner bet?? Personally don't think they will go bust however you look pretty silly mocking the views of people who know more about it than you. Two different radio shows in the last week, different channels, employed different football economists/accountant types to give a view. Both said they could go one of three ways, admin, liquidation or salvation - but both opted for liquidation as the most likely. The echo contact the FA for a view as to what will happen. They said that they will meet, should it happen but would give consideration to a bye for B'ham, reinstating us or other solutions (echo's guess was lucky draw for teams beaten by skates) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 Personally don't think they will go bust however you look pretty silly mocking the views of people who know more about it than you. Two different radio shows in the last week, different channels, employed different football economists/accountant types to give a view. Both said they could go one of three ways, admin, liquidation or salvation - but both opted for liquidation as the most likely. The echo contact the FA for a view as to what will happen. They said that they will meet, should it happen but would give consideration to a bye for B'ham, reinstating us or other solutions (echo's guess was lucky draw for teams beaten by skates) I find it inconceivable that Coventry, with a lucky draw, could be reinstated to go straight into the quarter finals without having won a single FA cup match. If the FA finds that P****y were insolvent during the Saints match (only) there could be an argument to reinstate Saints, but if their insolvency goes back to the Coventry and Sunderland matches then the only fair options are: 1) Coventry play Sunderland at home: winner plays Saints away: winner plays Brum at home; or 2) Give Brum a bye. There is not enough time for 1), so that leaves 2) if their insolvency goes back to the Coventry and Sunderland matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoneuelllfanclub Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 Guy on Talksport just said that if Pompey go bust then the teams they beat in the cup would all go into a hat to see who would play Birmingham. Didn't say where he found this info from though. I heard on it on talk sport as well yesterday morning and what I heard was that all the teams that lost in the 5th round would go into the hat should skates go bust. I did not hear anything about coventry and sunderland being placedinto the hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 I heard on it on talk sport as well yesterday morning and what I heard was that all the teams that lost in the 5th round would go into the hat should skates go bust. I did not hear anything about coventry and sunderland being placedinto the hat. This is the most ridiculous solution that anybody could come up with. Why should other teams who have suffered defeat by other teams go into the hat? Much fairer in my opinion that it only features those teams who were defeated by the Skates if it is proven that they were trading illegally while insolvent. From our perspective, there were players on the pitch who had a direct influence on the outcome of the result who otherwise would not have been there. But anyway, the decision on the FA Cup will fade into insignificance compared to the nightmare that will arise in sorting out the Premiership division if Pompey cease to exist following their liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 This is the most ridiculous solution that anybody could come up with. Why should other teams who have suffered defeat by other teams go into the hat? Much fairer in my opinion that it only features those teams who were defeated by the Skates if it is proven that they were trading illegally while insolvent. From our perspective, there were players on the pitch who had a direct influence on the outcome of the result who otherwise would not have been there. But anyway, the decision on the FA Cup will fade into insignificance compared to the nightmare that will arise in sorting out the Premiership division if Pompey cease to exist following their liquidation. What's the problem? Simply expunge their results and recalculate the table - I could do that in 20 minutes. The big question for those doubting the likelihood of impending liquidation is: Why would any potential investor wish to buy a club with a net value of anywhere between MINUS £40,000,000 and MINUS £100,000,000 (depending on sources) and almost certainly heading for Division Two (at best) and quite likely in Leeds like fashion, beyond that ? What is the possible payback for such a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester_Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 What's the problem? Simply expunge their results and recalculate the table - I could do that in 20 minutes. The big question for those doubting the likelihood of impending liquidation is: Why would any potential investor wish to buy a club with a net value of anywhere between MINUS £40,000,000 and MINUS £100,000,000 (depending on sources) and almost certainly heading for Division Two (at best) and quite likely in Leeds like fashion, beyond that ? What is the possible payback for such a deal? It will probably happen because some people have more money than sense - the opportunity to save a dying club, to become an instant hero with the fanbase, to achieve instant fame. I'm guessing that some mega rich people can afford to make such a loss and the challenge, recognition and fame that will come with saving a Premier League club which is about to die will outplace the money issue. Of course, they may simply invest enough to save the club from dying, see it go into admin, then pick it up on the cheap? I don't know enough about the ins and outs of business to comment on this, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 The barrow boys spunked £110million on West Ham, so who knows. Anyway I heard if Pompey go bust they will be replaced in the FA Cup by the Portsmouth ladies side which is a FIFA ruling but UEFA prefer a Birmingham and Southampton bye to next years final. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 What's the problem? Simply expunge their results and recalculate the table - I could do that in 20 minutes. The big question for those doubting the likelihood of impending liquidation is: Why would any potential investor wish to buy a club with a net value of anywhere between MINUS £40,000,000 and MINUS £100,000,000 (depending on sources) and almost certainly heading for Division Two (at best) and quite likely in Leeds like fashion, beyond that ? What is the possible payback for such a deal? I could also easily extrapolate the new league table by taking away all the Pompey results so far. That is no problem at all. However, there are also the ongoing fixtures to the end of the season to consider. What do you propose for that? A Pools panel to decide what the result of the remaining fixtures would be? That is the reason why I said that it would be a major headache for the football authorities. Your statement regarding the circumstances of the club following liquidation, should that occur, is wide of the mark. They wouldn't end up in Division two. Following liquidation, they would cease to exist as a club and would have to start again at whatever level they would be accepted. So the likelihood is that they would have to start in the Blue Square South division. They are a prospect for somebody to buy them out of administration, but hardly attractive as they stand now, or in the event of liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 I could also easily extrapolate the new league table by taking away all the Pompey results so far. That is no problem at all. However, there are also the ongoing fixtures to the end of the season to consider. What do you propose for that? A Pools panel to decide what the result of the remaining fixtures would be? That is the reason why I said that it would be a major headache for the football authorities. Why would you need to decide the results of the remaining fixtures? The teams they are scheduled to play would simply have a weekend off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 The precedent the FA set in '99/00 when Man U fcked off to the World Club Championships to try to get the 2010 World Cup for England was a "lucky loser" drawn from all of the 2nd Round losers for a place in the 3rd Round - but in that instance there was no pre-existing draw in place. In this circumstance Birmingham have already had the draw and if the Skates can't fulfil it, they'll get a walkover. Or at least that's what happens in a zillion other cup competitions worldwide, the FA are already making it up as they go along for everything else nowadays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 (edited) I could also easily extrapolate the new league table by taking away all the Pompey results so far. That is no problem at all. However, there are also the ongoing fixtures to the end of the season to consider. What do you propose for that? A Pools panel to decide what the result of the remaining fixtures would be? That is the reason why I said that it would be a major headache for the football authorities. Your statement regarding the circumstances of the club following liquidation, should that occur, is wide of the mark. They wouldn't end up in Division two. Following liquidation, they would cease to exist as a club and would have to start again at whatever level they would be accepted. So the likelihood is that they would have to start in the Blue Square South division. They are a prospect for somebody to buy them out of administration, but hardly attractive as they stand now, or in the event of liquidation. They'd just pools panel result the next couple of matches and then remove the fixture from the coupon after a fortnight, adding an extra Conference match or Scottish Div 3. I'd say the likelihood is that they would get into the Southern League for definite and the Blue Square Conference South would very much be at the discretion of that League - when Newport, Aldershot, Maidstone etc went bust in the late 80s none of them got to reform above the Southern/Isthmian/Northern League regional level which is one below the Conference North/South, and they have a minimum of two divisions in those leagues - Aldershot went into the Isthmian 3rd division. Newport went bust in the Conference, restarted in the Hellenic League, and have been promoted from Southern League Midland (for Skates this would be South and West) to Southern Lge Premier, then Conference South. It's taken them 21 years to get back (including a relegation from the Southern League Premier in the mid-90s). There is of course, no real precedent for a team falling out of existence from any league other than "Division 4", and money rules now, so they might seek any kind of "placing" based on attendance and such like. I have occasionally wondered if Markus might like to buy their League position to cut a few corners, MK have already set a precedent for that one, Merton Council inflexibility or not. Edited 23 February, 2010 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 I could also easily extrapolate the new league table by taking away all the Pompey results so far. That is no problem at all. However, there are also the ongoing fixtures to the end of the season to consider. What do you propose for that? A Pools panel to decide what the result of the remaining fixtures would be? That is the reason why I said that it would be a major headache for the football authorities. Your statement regarding the circumstances of the club following liquidation, should that occur, is wide of the mark. They wouldn't end up in Division two. Following liquidation, they would cease to exist as a club and would have to start again at whatever level they would be accepted. So the likelihood is that they would have to start in the Blue Square South division. They are a prospect for somebody to buy them out of administration, but hardly attractive as they stand now, or in the event of liquidation. I really don't see where you're coming from at all. On the first point, as Pancake rightly states, all the outstanding fixtures would simply be cancelled and rendered as void as the so far completed fixtures. Apart from relatively minor logistics such as ticket refunds what exactly is the "major headache" in the context of a 100+ year old football club's life? As for your second point perhaps you would care to actually read what I wrote. The scenario by which Portsmouth would end up as a Division 2 club or even worse, do a "Leeds" and sink to the third tier, would be in the event of them NOT going into liquidation - i.e. being bought or entering administration; in other words it is the best possible scenario (in my opinion of course). In the event of liquidation the club would obviously cease to exist and have to follow the likes of Aldershot, Accrington and Wimbledon in rising up from a rebirth in the lowest echelons. The (admittedly arguable) values I put on the club represent what the club is worth NOW - NOT after liquidation when the value would be presumably zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 Perhaps some confusion was caused by my use of the term "Division Two" instead of the ridiculously named "Championship". If you thought I was talking about League Two or lower then I can understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsent Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 The precedent the FA set in '99/00 when Man U fcked off to the World Club Championships to try to get the 2010 World Cup for England was a "lucky loser" drawn from all of the 2nd Round losers for a place in the 3rd Round - but in that instance there was no pre-existing draw in place. In this circumstance Birmingham have already had the draw and if the Skates can't fulfil it, they'll get a walkover. Or at least that's what happens in a zillion other cup competitions worldwide, the FA are already making it up as they go along for everything else nowadays... As I recall, Man Utd were told by UEFA that they had no choice other than to represent Europe in the World Club Championship with their strongest side. They were then told by the FA that they couldn't field a weakened team in the FA cup without fines and possible expulsion. I'm not sure what they were meant to do in those circumstances. As for whether Birmingham would get a bye or they'd play us or one of the other R5 losers, that's a question for the FA. There is nothing in the rules of the FA Cup for this season that say what should be done. I'm sure that they'll add a new rule for next season's competition even if Pompey stay afloat long enough to lose this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 23 February, 2010 Share Posted 23 February, 2010 (edited) As I recall, Man Utd were told by UEFA that they had no choice other than to represent Europe in the World Club Championship with their strongest side. They were then told by the FA that they couldn't field a weakened team in the FA cup without fines and possible expulsion. I'm not sure what they were meant to do in those circumstances. As for whether Birmingham would get a bye or they'd play us or one of the other R5 losers, that's a question for the FA. There is nothing in the rules of the FA Cup for this season that say what should be done. I'm sure that they'll add a new rule for next season's competition even if Pompey stay afloat long enough to lose this season. Just remembered it was the 2006 World Cup bid not 2010 (gentleman's agreement indeed)... Ferguson said here that were there because the FA insisted : http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2171/premier-league/2009/12/02/1661532/alex-ferguson-regrets-manchester-uniteds-fa-cup-withdrawal Nothing about the FA threatening them with fines or expulsion here either, but stuff about the FA offering them the chance to withdraw rather than devalue the competition : http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-united-given-chance-to-miss-fa-cup-1102926.html The point remains that there's no precedent for this situation other than in the case of ineligible players, which reinstates the opponent, but that's where rules have been broken, rather than a failure to field a team. Edited 23 February, 2010 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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