1965onwards Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 .........in the financial mismanagement stakes. At least £30 million has been received for Crouch,Walcott,Bale and Jones,plus £13.5 milion parachute payments,since relegation. Huge resources for a non-premiership team. There is no way we should be in this position. The sight and sound of Mr.Wilde preaching prudence and salvation is the biggest joke ever, considering he was the one who brought in Hone,Dulieu etc,even bigger jokers than he is. We will probably be at least £4 million short on expected gate revenue this season. We will be paying at least £3 million wages this season for high-earners we expected to go. We are therefore going to be £7 million short of what the bank wanted us to do financially. Our net debt will INCREASE rather than decrease,and we will fail to meet the banks cost- cutting targets. The chances of us avoiding administration are rapidly approaching ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 The defining question is: 'Where has all the money gone?' From what we can gather we have been spending less than 50% on the playing and coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Yep, some serious questions posed there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0108787 Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 i bet lallana is sold in Jan for £5m or so to make up the short fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Bad management by everyone involved, from the losers brought in by Burley to the money spunked on Woodward, Clifford, Dome, eye gyms etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 i bet lallana is sold in Jan for £5m or so to make up the short fall. Lol - £5m! You're having a laugh. We'd get £2m max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shearer Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Its all in the annual accounts so you can where the money has gone. And IMO the training facilities will keep us in good stead for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Lol - £5m! You're having a laugh. We'd get £2m max. Still if we did obtain 5M it would be bloody handy,for a lad who'll have played about 20 first team games by then. 4M for the "wolves" and 1 million to buy an experienced,no nonense striker who can stick simple chances (like the one Lallana had against Blackpool) straight into the back of the net.It's all we're missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 .........in the financial mismanagement stakes. At least £30 million has been received for Crouch,Walcott,Bale and Jones,plus £13.5 milion parachute payments,since relegation. Huge resources for a non-premiership team. There is no way we should be in this position. The sight and sound of Mr.Wilde preaching prudence and salvation is the biggest joke ever, considering he was the one who brought in Hone,Dulieu etc,even bigger jokers than he is. We will probably be at least £4 million short on expected gate revenue this season. We will be paying at least £3 million wages this season for high-earners we expected to go. We are therefore going to be £7 million short of what the bank wanted us to do financially. Our net debt will INCREASE rather than decrease,and we will fail to meet the banks cost- cutting targets. The chances of us avoiding administration are rapidly approaching ZERO. One question - the figures you base the shortfall on (wages and gate revenue) where did you get them from? Or have you just guessed at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 23 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Loss of gate money,difference between gates of 22,000 and 14-15000. Wages for john,skacel,eull,davis,thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Loss of gate money,difference between gates of 22,000 and 14-15000. Wages for john,skacel,eull,davis,thomas. I don't doubt we've a lower attendance than was expected, but I also doubt they planned on an average of 22,000 (afaik we didn't have that last season). That also assumes that all ticket holders pay maximum price. I also doubt we wanted rid of all of the above, 3 out of 5 maybe. So in short, we're in the ****, but I don't agree it is as deep as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shearer Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Long-term debt was c£20m at the end of the 2006/07 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Its all in the annual accounts so you can where the money has gone. And IMO the training facilities will keep us in good stead for the future. Can anyone publish a detailed copy of these? All that I have seen has been mainly speculation. There is still the question of the big imbalance between first-team and non first-team spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Can anyone publish a detailed copy of these? All that I have seen has been mainly speculation. There is still the question of the big imbalance between first-team and non first-team spending. On the OS, under Club Information, you can download the 2005,2006 and 2007 accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 .........in the financial mismanagement stakes. At least £30 million has been received for Crouch,Walcott,Bale and Jones sounds like good business to me. to take young up and coming stars and turn them into multi million pound assets has to be a good thing and it also shows that the academy is doing its job. you have to understand that the academy is there to make money,we are a selling club just like 99% of the clubs in the football league and once any player shows a bit of class or promise then he is going to be snapped up by a wealthier club. every player in the world has ambitions and priorities,and usually they look something like this..... a) earn as much money as possible b) play for the best team possible c) win as many trophies as possible d) play for your country z) be loyal. the academy is a cashpoint for the club ,they are constantly looking for the next big pay day and that will probably be lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 One question - the figures you base the shortfall on (wages and gate revenue) where did you get them from? Or have you just guessed at them? This will be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 23 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Surprise surprise,the serial no-judgement Saintwarwick has nothing constructive to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 ......... The chances of us avoiding administration are rapidly approaching ZERO. You of course know this for a fact ??? It's a very strong statement. I for one am getting just a weeny bit fed up with all these people who know exactly where we are in relation to administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Everybody posting seems to be of the opinion that only the 11 players plus subs and coaching staff are the only drain on club funds! What about running costs of the stadium, the training ground, the various teams at other levels, the non-first team players and coaches and the admin. staff? Do all these things cost no money? The club accounts have been published at various times and yet nobody has been able to find the so called hidden millions that people ***** on about from player sales, could it be that these so called hidden millions pay for all of the above? Could it be that the only debt we have is the stadium? Could it be that we have no surplus income to pay for 'extras' like players and high wages? Can the stay-away fans come up with any more lame excuses as to why they don't go anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shearer Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 On the OS, under Club Information, you can download the 2005,2006 and 2007 accounts. Either that or you can go to Companies House and get full versions there but it'll cost a £1 a pop. Plus additional reports there such as Company appointments, outstanding loans etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Surprise surprise,the serial no-judgement Saintwarwick has nothing constructive to say. Ignore him or take the ****. Its the only way. I have never known someone on a chat site with so little to say for themself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Everybody posting seems to be of the opinion that only the 11 players plus subs and coaching staff are the only drain on club funds! What about running costs of the stadium, the training ground, the various teams at other levels, the non-first team players and coaches and the admin. staff? Do all these things cost no money? The club accounts have been published at various times and yet nobody has been able to find the so called hidden millions that people ***** on about from player sales, could it be that these so called hidden millions pay for all of the above? Could it be that the only debt we have is the stadium? Could it be that we have no surplus income to pay for 'extras' like players and high wages? Can the stay-away fans come up with any more lame excuses as to why they don't go anymore? there are no hidden millions. This question just keeps on recurring. Find the Echo from Friday 20th Jan 2006. It's the same old barrel of sh!te,the missing millions. Lowe says in that issue-Yep, we've spent them on players. We sold a few big players and bought hoard of small time failures. That's it an all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Ignore him or take the ****. Its the only way. I have never known someone on a chat site with so little to say for themself..At least he tries to be positive and tries to get a balance. Alpine we are at opposite poles but it doesnt mean we are both right or wrong all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Surprise surprise,the serial no-judgement Saintwarwick has nothing constructive to say. You would be better of posting the facts on here to back up your post otherwise it will be treated as such as I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Ignore him or take the ****. Its the only way. I have never known someone on a chat site with so little to say for themself.. This from someone who avoids questions by posting smilies like these :smt015 You could be taken more seriously if you answered questions rather than avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Not another 'where's the money gone'. Its gone to pay the clubs mortgage & overdraft, the very high wage bill the club has since relegation and still currently has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 This from someone who avoids questions by posting smilies like these :smt015 You could be taken more seriously if you answered questions rather than avoid them. You are by far the most tedious and banal poster on this site. You express no opinion, just sneer or ask stupid questions in response to an opinion you dont like. You deserve to be responded to in kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 You are by far the most tedious and banal poster on this site. You express no opinion, just sneer or ask stupid questions in response to an opinion you dont like. You deserve to be responded to in kind.Alpine do you not have mirrors in your house. We all have our pet dislikes for certain views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Nick, you and I are 180degrees apart, but intermixed with the name-calling and sneering, we both express our opinions, we just differ about how to go about solving the problems. SW is totally different. He expects everyone to have forensic evidence for any opinion or comment theny express. Its f**king ridiculous. If he wrote on here "I reckon we played well on Saturday against Barnsley", no one else would respond "where is the evidence and source for you saying our performance was good". He thinks he's being funny :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Nick, you and I are 180degrees apart, but intermixed with the name-calling and sneering, we both express our opinions, we just differ about how to go about solving the problems. SW is totally different. He expects everyone to have forensic evidence for any opinion or comment theny express. Its f**king ridiculous. If he wrote on here "I reckon we played well on Saturday against Barnsley", no one else would respond "where is the evidence and source for you saying our performance was good". He thinks he's being funny :rolleyes: Perhaps I havent been a victim of that and so why I have not noticed it.At least we can agree on your first para Alpine.....although Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Loss of gate money,difference between gates of 22,000 and 14-15000. Wages for john,skacel,eull,davis,thomas. That throws up a few obvious questions: 1. How do you know for certain what the difference is, bearing in mind we've only had four home league games this season and we don't know what ratio of the missing fans are concessions, not to mention what happens if fans come back? 2. How do you know for certain what these players are earning per week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 On the OS, under Club Information, you can download the 2005,2006 and 2007 accounts. Ta for that. I've just had a quick scan through the 2007 figures but there is precious little detail in the figures for operating costs. Basically, as I see it, on a turnover of £23.27m we had total costs of £27.2m (including £5.658 for 'admin') and players'/coaches' wages of £10.5m. Total staff salaries were £15m on 212 employees, which presumably includes the players, giving an average employee 'salary' of over £70k p.a. From what I can see interest payments were about £2m and we had more than that in the bank. We come back to this figure for 'cost of sales' at £21.35m of which over £11m is not player-related and does not include admin costs of £5.66m. The resulting small losss for the year was mainly because of the profit from player sales. Interestingly the loss amounted to 2.44 pence per share. I look forward to the figures for 2008 with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Ta for that. I've just had a quick scan through the 2007 figures but there is precious little detail in the figures for operating costs. Basically, as I see it, on a turnover of £23.27m we had total costs of £27.2m (including £5.658 for 'admin') and players'/coaches' wages of £10.5m. Total staff salaries were £15m on 212 employees, which presumably includes the players, giving an average employee 'salary' of over £70k p.a. From what I can see interest payments were about £2m and we had more than that in the bank. We come back to this figure for 'cost of sales' at £21.35m of which over £11m is not player-related and does not include admin costs of £5.66m. The resulting small losss for the year was mainly because of the profit from player sales. Interestingly the loss amounted to 2.44 pence per share. I look forward to the figures for 2008 with interest.what is the likely 11m to be lost on.Rates is around £1m that still is a lot of extras. WOuld some be players bonusses and signing on fees, agents fees etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 One question - the figures you base the shortfall on (wages and gate revenue) where did you get them from? Or have you just guessed at them? That's two questions ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 sounds like good business to me. to take young up and coming stars and turn them into multi million pound assets has to be a good thing and it also shows that the academy is doing its job. you have to understand that the academy is there to make money,we are a selling club just like 99% of the clubs in the football league and once any player shows a bit of class or promise then he is going to be snapped up by a wealthier club. every player in the world has ambitions and priorities,and usually they look something like this..... a) earn as much money as possible b) play for the best team possible c) win as many trophies as possible d) play for your country z) be loyal. the academy is a cashpoint for the club ,they are constantly looking for the next big pay day and that will probably be lallana. TBF no-one is saying that isn't good business - it clearly is!!! The problem lies with what has happened to all the cash generated, and why do we have the debts we have when we can earn such sums of money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Where has all the £'s gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Where has all the £'s gone? Was it spent on bubbly for the shareholder's Xmas party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 what is the likely 11m to be lost on.Rates is around £1m that still is a lot of extras. WOuld some be players bonusses and signing on fees, agents fees etc? You're asking the wrong person. 'player trading' showed a profit of £5m, £7.5m on disposal less £2.5m amortisation - writing down of player's values over the length of their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 23 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 September, 2008 For those who have an agenda where they would like Saints problems minimised :- 7000 fewer through gate than projected @ £25.00 x 23 = approx £4 million.Although i do not know what figure Lowe agreed with the bank,this is not an unreasonable estimate. We know Skacel turned down £6000 a week at Ipswich,as it was half his wages here.Not unreasonable to estimate the 5 players i mentioned as being on equivalent wages.Therefore 12,000 per week x 5 x 52 weeks = approx £3 million. Everything that has come out of the club was that they needed to offload ALL big earners.Not hard to believe that Bank wanted all 5 of those players off the books. Not unreasonable to assume therefore that we will be £7 million worse off this season than Lowe and the Bank had hoped for.Also not unreasonable to assume that as we have not met the banks' cost-cutting demands,and with a massive shortfall in projected income,and in todays financial climate,that the bank will assume that we are a hopeless case and will foreclose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 For those who have an agenda where they would like Saints problems minimised :- 7000 fewer through gate than projected @ £25.00 x 23 = approx £4 million.Although i do not know what figure Lowe agreed with the bank,this is not an unreasonable estimate. We know Skacel turned down £6000 a week at Ipswich,as it was half his wages here.Not unreasonable to estimate the 5 players i mentioned as being on equivalent wages.Therefore 12,000 per week x 5 x 52 weeks = approx £3 million. Everything that has come out of the club was that they needed to offload ALL big earners.Not hard to believe that Bank wanted all 5 of those players off the books. Not unreasonable to assume therefore that we will be £7 million worse off this season than Lowe and the Bank had hoped for.Also not unreasonable to assume that as we have not met the banks' cost-cutting demands,and with a massive shortfall in projected income,and in todays financial climate,that the bank will assume that we are a hopeless case and will foreclose. Also probably would have forecast circa £3million in transfer fees in, when offloading those five players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 23 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Good point WSS,gets worse by the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Makes you wonder why they spent 1.5mill Euros on an untried french kid in the summer and brought in 6 other players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 For those who have an agenda where they would like Saints problems minimised :- 7000 fewer through gate than projected @ £25.00 x 23 = approx £4 million.Although i do not know what figure Lowe agreed with the bank,this is not an unreasonable estimate. We know Skacel turned down £6000 a week at Ipswich,as it was half his wages here.Not unreasonable to estimate the 5 players i mentioned as being on equivalent wages.Therefore 12,000 per week x 5 x 52 weeks = approx £3 million. Everything that has come out of the club was that they needed to offload ALL big earners.Not hard to believe that Bank wanted all 5 of those players off the books. Not unreasonable to assume therefore that we will be £7 million worse off this season than Lowe and the Bank had hoped for.Also not unreasonable to assume that as we have not met the banks' cost-cutting demands,and with a massive shortfall in projected income,and in todays financial climate,that the bank will assume that we are a hopeless case and will foreclose. Ah, so you've made it all up? Thanks, I just wanted that clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Either that or you can go to Companies House and get full versions there but it'll cost a £1 a pop. Plus additional reports there such as Company appointments, outstanding loans etc. Unfortunately nothing at present that gives any information on anything later than 31 Dec 2007, except a short trading update statement. The annual accounts for the year ending June 30th 2008 are not yet published, and these are, of course, the pertinent figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 .........in the financial mismanagement stakes. At least £30 million has been received for Crouch,Walcott,Bale and Jones,plus £13.5 milion parachute payments,since relegation. Huge resources for a non-premiership team. There is no way we should be in this position. The sight and sound of Mr.Wilde preaching prudence and salvation is the biggest joke ever, considering he was the one who brought in Hone,Dulieu etc,even bigger jokers than he is. We will probably be at least £4 million short on expected gate revenue this season. We will be paying at least £3 million wages this season for high-earners we expected to go. We are therefore going to be £7 million short of what the bank wanted us to do financially. Our net debt will INCREASE rather than decrease,and we will fail to meet the banks cost- cutting targets. The chances of us avoiding administration are rapidly approaching ZERO. What is the point of yet another sniping thread repeating all the same old arguements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carljack Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 Alpine do you not have mirrors in your house. We all have our pet dislikes for certain views.[/quote Alpine Saint is a REALIST who sees it and says it how it REALLY is, all his views on the Club have for the last Three years been Pessimistic for the most part,and guess what he has been proved right,the truth hurts, I wish he did spout B@lloc@s! SAINT TILL I DIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 The defining question is: 'Where has all the money gone?' From what we can gather we have been spending less than 50% on the playing and coaching staff. Exactly. There's no way £30 million has been spent on wages, after you take out £7million Burley spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 5 million for Lallana? Nice bit of business by Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 5 million for Lallana? Nice bit of business by Lowe. Can we have this Skate fan banned ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 September, 2008 Share Posted 23 September, 2008 5 million for Lallana? Nice bit of business by Lowe. You're either very brave or very stupid posting here after tonight's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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