ART Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 It's been something I noted a while ago, just how many ex Saints players are doing well and getting other teams promoted. Yesterday was a day of glory for ex Saints at Newcastle with Williamson, Guthrie and Leon Best in the promotion winning squad. Then there's Dyer at Swansea, and McGoldrick at Notts Forest, also standing a chance. What is it about this club, it's academy that has players doing well after they leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Blackstock is also at Forest....Ranger IS in Newcastle squad....Rasiak and Howard at Reading on a late run.. Ronaldo at Real Madrid......Rupes tried to sign him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Our academy was really excellent at one point and you can see why the then CEO thought that we could promote from within and save lots of dosh. However as they matured a lot of them became very average. Would we really want McGoldrick back for example? A lot of them are average to good CCC players. They will probably be no more than squad players if they survive the rebuild after promotion. Walcott and Bale are the only two that I would be delighted to see back. Perhaps Baird too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 (edited) It's been something I noted a while ago, just how many ex Saints players are doing well and getting other teams promoted. Yesterday was a day of glory for ex Saints at Newcastle with Williamson, Guthrie and Leon Best in the promotion winning squad. Then there's Dyer at Swansea, and McGoldrick at Notts Forest, also standing a chance. What is it about this club, it's academy that has players doing well after they leave? Most of the players you mentioned were successful as Youth players. Few had any sort of first team career at a time when we were at a higher level than we are now. Academy is for teenagers and with exception of Walcott and Bale few make any real impression until they are around 20+ and its slow progress. Guthrie was an rather unimpressive loan, Williamson came too us as a 16 year old and was always out of loan and (at that time) not good enough for first team. Successive managers ignored him, preferring to use established players. Matt Mills is another. McG, Best and Blackstock (who you failed to mention) were usually 3rd or 4th choice strikers, and eventually went for quick money. Which is the main reason the club sold them. I don't know anyone who can tell me which of our current crop of youth players will end up in the Prem. or even become an international.? but odds are they'll be one or two. Some players are late developers and do well after they leave. Kevin Davies (Bolton) and longer ago... Andy Townsend (Norwich, Chelsea and Ireland) are two such. I agree it's sad to see them go, but decisions have to be made and some are catastrophic. The worst (best) example I can think of was when Newcastle released a 12 year old goalkeeper named ..ALAN SHEARER. The unhappy lad moved south and became a striker in Saints youth team...the rest as they say ..is history. Years later it cost Newcastle £15 million to get him from Blackburn. At least we haven't made a bloomer like that ...yet ! Edited 6 April, 2010 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Blackstock is also at Forest....Ranger IS in Newcastle squad....Rasiak and Howard at Reading on a late run.. Ronaldo at Real Madrid......Rupes tried to sign him? AND RL could have signed Didier Drogba.. ......but didn't like the (then) young lad, because he thought.... he had " a bit of an attitude " wonder whatever happened to him ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 I agree it's sad to see them go, but decisions have to be made and some are catastrophic. The worst (best) example I can think of was when Newcastle released a 12 year old goalkeeper named ..ALAN SHEARER. The unhappy lad moved south and became a striker in Saints youth team...the rest as they say ..is history. Years later it cost Newcastle £15 million to get him from Blackburn. At least we haven't made a bloomer like that ...yet ! We did release a right-back called Kevin Phillips! We then spent £3M to buy him back once other clubs had realised he was a cracking striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 We did release a right-back called Kevin Phillips! We then spent £3M to buy him back once other clubs had realised he was a cracking striker Quite right - well remembered! ...and the eternal " pub quiz" question: Which former Saints junior made his first team debut 20 years after he left the junior side. ANSWER : DENNIS WISE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Our academy was really excellent at one point and you can see why the then CEO thought that we could promote from within and save lots of dosh. However as they matured a lot of them became very average. Would we really want McGoldrick back for example? A lot of them are average to good CCC players. They will probably be no more than squad players if they survive the rebuild after promotion. Walcott and Bale are the only two that I would be delighted to see back. Perhaps Baird too. People forget than in footballing terms, to get to that level still means you're a f*cking good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 People forget than in footballing terms, to get to that level still means you're a f*cking good player. Many of these players got stick when they were here. Certainly McGoldrick was hailed as a waste of space in the 1st team. Relative to you and me, yes they are good players. Relative to the standard in the Premiership, they are mediocre at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Many of these players got stick when they were here. Certainly McGoldrick was hailed as a waste of space in the 1st team. Relative to you and me, yes they are good players. Relative to the standard in the Premiership, they are mediocre at best. McGoldrick carried that team at times last season. We'd have been down by Easter without his goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 You forgot Gary Monk at Swansea I recall Which brings me back to my favourite old Chestnut. Within the current set-up of English Football can you convert Academy Players into Professionals? They all mature at different rates, some are world beaters at 18 (Michael Owen) some take to their mid twenties. Our reserve team isn't the place where they will learn, their careers need to be managed with careful placements on loan at ever increasing levels of competitive football. The SCW "debacle" was originally supposed to do that but it all went Pete Tong. You watch 7 or 8 years down the line as Lancashire, Patterson, McLaggon or others HDAJFsomeoneelse. But we wouldn't have wanted to spend the time and effort to keep them while they matured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfredKo Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 It's been something I noted a while ago, just how many ex Saints players are doing well and getting other teams promoted. Yesterday was a day of glory for ex Saints at Newcastle with Williamson, Guthrie and Leon Best in the promotion winning squad. Then there's Dyer at Swansea, and McGoldrick at Notts Forest, also standing a chance. What is it about this club, it's academy that has players doing well after they leave? Rory Delap is doing incredibly well in Stoke. His long throws are running the show all the time in the EPL highlights. He is even high profile in Asia because of his terrific long throws. Just proved that George Burley is a ****ing stupid manager to a certain extent, signed Jermaine Wright and released Dealp and Oakley. Can you guys imagine what would had happened if we have Delap, Oakley alongside Viafara, Pele, Skacel and Surman in our midfields in the season 06/07? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Delap and Oakley were both royally slagged off when they were here. Delap was derided as a total waste of money. Oakely left because he was offered a better deal elsewhere but he could have stayed if he had wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 McGoldrick carried that team at times last season. We'd have been down by Easter without his goals. Didn't stop him getting stick on here though. Isn't he a bench warmer at Forest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Delap and Oakley were both royally slagged off when they were here. Delap was derided as a total waste of money. Oakely left because he was offered a better deal elsewhere but he could have stayed if he had wanted. Oakley was offered an absolute pittance to stay here, I don't really blame him for leaving. Delap was decent in the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons, but we never really utilised his main strengths after that, especially when we were in the Championship. It's probably only this season that we've had enough players with the right build and technical attributes who would make best use of his long throws - I can only remember us scoring twice from them when he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Didn't stop him getting stick on here though. Isn't he a bench warmer at Forest? Yeah, but they've got about 53 strikers and attacking midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfredKo Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Oakley was offered an absolute pittance to stay here, I don't really blame him for leaving. Delap was decent in the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons, but we never really utilised his main strengths after that, especially when we were in the Championship. It's probably only this season that we've had enough players with the right build and technical attributes who would make best use of his long throws - I can only remember us scoring twice from them when he was here. We have to ****ing blame George Burley! There is no doubt he could have offered the wages for Jermaine Wright to Oakley or even Higg as well. For the long throws stuff, even Lallana can score from a long throw means there shouldn't be any restrictions of using long throws. How the manager set up specific strategies for the usage of long throws is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 We have to ****ing blame George Burley! There is no doubt he could have offered the wages for Jermaine Wright to Oakley or even Higg as well. For the long throws stuff, even Lallana can score from a long throw means there shouldn't be any restrictions of using long throws. How the manager set up specific strategies for the usage of long throws is the key. That was absolutely shambolic defending though. I think i'd be right in saying that Lallanas goal in the cup final was the first time we have scored from one of Antonios long throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 AND RL could have signed Didier Drogba.. ......but didn't like the (then) young lad, because he thought.... he had " a bit of an attitude " wonder whatever happened to him ...? How accurate is that though? Or rather how much is myth put about as part of the Lowe slagfest? I'd heard two versions: - DD was being touted around at 1.5m, and RL would only approve 1m. - Strachan rejected Drogba because he 'was too similar to Beattie'. Without hype or prejudice I'd like to know the answer. Does anyone know the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Don't think a reason was ever given for the Drogba deal falling through. It was Adebayor who Lowe thought had an attitude, because he wanted £1500pw in the Prem as a youngster and he wasn't prepared to give him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Oh and Kevin Phillips is an overhyped player. One great season with Sunderland and then the premiership defenders found him out. I was dismayed when we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 However as they matured a lot of them became very average. Would we really want McGoldrick back for example?. We'd have to be pretty dumb not too tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MulletMan Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 We'd have to be pretty dumb not too tbf. He has scored 3 goals in 30 games. I bet all of our current strikers could do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Mighty Mac would not get near this great Saints side.....Downward spiral for this fat boy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 It's been something I noted a while ago, just how many ex Saints players are doing well and getting other teams promoted. Yesterday was a day of glory for ex Saints at Newcastle with Williamson, Guthrie and Leon Best in the promotion winning squad. Then there's Dyer at Swansea, and McGoldrick at Notts Forest, also standing a chance. What is it about this club, it's academy that has players doing well after they leave? What it is is that when we were a Prem side we signed a load of Academy players who were Championship standard. I hardly think the contributions of Williamson, Best or McGoldrick have had much impact on their teams' promotion challenging seasons, and we can't say much for our effect on Guthrie's career, when he was only borderline Prem near-relegation standard at Bolton the season after he left. No-one's lauding the successes of Craig Richards, Jake Thomson, Ollie Lancashire, Josh Dutton-Black, Totti or Jacinto Ela Eyene, so I assume the fact there are just a lot of ex-Saints players from the last 7 seasons probably has more to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Yeah, but they've got about 53 strikers and attacking midfielders. Good point!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Oakley was offered an absolute pittance to stay here, I don't really blame him for leaving. Delap was decent in the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons, but we never really utilised his main strengths after that, especially when we were in the Championship. It's probably only this season that we've had enough players with the right build and technical attributes who would make best use of his long throws - I can only remember us scoring twice from them when he was here. We had 6'7½" Peter Crouch playing for us, FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 McGoldrick carried that team at times last season. We'd have been down by Easter without his goals. You said this yesterday and I still think you're talking a bunch of arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Oakley was offered an absolute pittance to stay here, I don't really blame him for leaving. Delap was decent in the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons, but we never really utilised his main strengths after that, especially when we were in the Championship. It's probably only this season that we've had enough players with the right build and technical attributes who would make best use of his long throws - I can only remember us scoring twice from them when he was here. Yes, I got the impression that they weren't too unhappy to see him go. I quite liked him as a player but a lot of people on the old Saintslist had it in for him, Delap too. Long thows aside, I don't think we made the best of Delap as you say. I heard how he used to walk past players for fun in training. I suppose the transfer fee didn't help. I like Oakley when he played higher up the pitch. He had an awesome strike on him. But managers have their own ideas and their own men. Looking back at Strachan's time here I think he made many mistakes (although he seems to be fireproof), not least Kevin Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Delap never quite hit it off for us & I don't know why. Oakley was one of the best, most under-rated players we ever had. Our decline started almost to the day he did his cruciate when he was in the best form of his career. I'm glad he has recovered and is doing well at Leicester. Strachan made mistakes & isn't fireproof, but on balance his signings were mostly good, as were his team selections & results, unlike Burley who was mostly dire on all fronts, but still with the odd good moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 One question. Why during three years did Delap never say... "Guv, did you know I can throw a football further than Beattie can kick it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 They knew he could throw it a long way but chose not to use it as a main weapon for some reason. I don't understand why Stoke get so much stick for it? A winger can cross a ball all day long and that is fine. Delap lobs them in from a throw and somehow it is not okay? Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 They knew he could throw it a long way but chose not to use it as a main weapon for some reason. I don't understand why Stoke get so much stick for it? A winger can cross a ball all day long and that is fine. Delap lobs them in from a throw and somehow it is not okay? Go figure. They knew he could throw it a long way, but didn't realise that distance wasn't the key, it was actually power. His throws these days are very different to the old days, they are thrown in with power, rather than looped in as before, different trajectory, different effect. With us, defenders saw the throws coming, sat down had a picnic, followed by a litlle nap and then got up to head it away as it descended with snow on it. He seldom lobs throws these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcuk fan Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Not to mention managers getting others promoted. Nigel Pearson got Leicester up to the Championship on his first attempt and this year has them in the play offs for the EPL ! Shoulda stuck with him maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 McGoldrick has scored 3 goals at Forest in 17 appearances........at best he is Division 1 quality and frankly wouldn't do anything than warm the bench at SMS now ..........wouldn't be surprised if they let him go to somewhere like Peterborough in the close season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 Not to mention managers getting others promoted. Nigel Pearson got Leicester up to the Championship on his first attempt and this year has them in the play offs for the EPL ! Shoulda stuck with him maybe ? Oh PLEASE, don't start THAT one again.... And yes of course he would have kept us up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 April, 2010 Share Posted 6 April, 2010 How accurate is that though? Or rather how much is myth put about as part of the Lowe slagfest? I'd heard two versions: - DD was being touted around at 1.5m, and RL would only approve 1m. - Strachan rejected Drogba because he 'was too similar to Beattie'. Without hype or prejudice I'd like to know the answer. Does anyone know the truth? well, of course James Beattie doesn't come from the Ivory Coast, but can ANYONE on the planet say that Beattie is even remotely similar to Drogba ? Beattie can't run and certainly doesn't /never had the sort of control that DD has. IF WGS said that ...he couldn't have been serious ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 (edited) McGoldrick has scored 3 goals at Forest in 17 appearances........at best he is Division 1 quality and frankly wouldn't do anything than warm the bench at SMS now ..........wouldn't be surprised if they let him go to somewhere like Peterborough in the close season Quite right, egreog (george ?) ..if Mc G. or Blackstock were still with us now, we'd be looking to move them out. Their strike records now are no better than when they were with us. Being 3rd or 4th choice striker in any club a dangerous position to have, and scoring lots in the Reserves doesn't automatically qualify you for the first team. Such players emerge once / twice every 5 years or so. The only strikers in the last 40 years who went on to do better elsewhere can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Martin Chivers ...Alan Shearer and (maybe) Kevin Davies. In each case, they left the club for record fees. Edited 7 April, 2010 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 well, of course James Beattie doesn't come from the Ivory Coast, but can ANYONE on the planet say that Beattie is even remotely similar to Drogba ? Beattie can't run and certainly doesn't /never had the sort of control that DD has. IF WGS said that ...he couldn't have been serious ! I thought Wenger was following Drogba as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 I thought Wenger was following Drogba as well .well, he obviously didn't take DD seriously either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten hours ahead Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 Quite right, egreog (george ?) ..if Mc G. or Blackstock were still with us now, we'd be looking to move them out. Their strike records now are no better than when they were with us. Being 3rd or 4th choice striker in any club a dangerous position to have, and scoring lots in the Reserves doesn't automatically qualify you for the first team. Such players emerge once / twice every 5 years or so. The only strikers in the last 40 years who went on to do better elsewhere can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Martin Chivers ...Alan Shearer and (maybe) Kevin Davies. In each case, they left the club for record fees. I would say that Kevin Davies has been a huge success at Bolton since he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 They knew he could throw it a long way, but didn't realise that distance wasn't the key, it was actually power. His throws these days are very different to the old days, they are thrown in with power, rather than looped in as before, different trajectory, different effect. With us, defenders saw the throws coming, sat down had a picnic, followed by a litlle nap and then got up to head it away as it descended with snow on it. He seldom lobs throws these days. Better coaching then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 I hardly think the contributions of Williamson has had much impact on their teams' promotion challenging seasons Disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 April, 2010 Share Posted 7 April, 2010 Letting Kevin Davies go was a huge mistake. Although his form dipped he was still a quality player and I will never understand why he wasn't even on the bench at Cardiff. Wasn't there something to do with alleged use of white powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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