Jan Proud of our display

[wheels]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10419

[alpine_saint]

Wonder what the "problems" Lee Holmes has with his legs were ?

[wheels]

Wonder what the "problems" Lee Holmes has with his legs were ?

 

 

Varicose Veins. HTH

[TopGun]

Wonder what the "problems" Lee Holmes has with his legs were ?

 

I guess he didn't do quite the same pre-season as the rest. Just cramp I'd expect.

[Wes Tender]

Was Poortvliet really happy, or just putting a brave face on it? According to the match statistics, Cardiff had about two thirds of the possession. I had thought, perhaps mistakenly, that we were to be playing total football, denying the opposition possession by passing the ball around between our players, tiring them out by chasing shadows. I had read on the OS that the youngsters had learned quickly to play that system.

 

So what conclusion can we reach? That they had not learned to play that system fluently as yet? That the older players had hampered it? That Cardiff had not allowed us to play it once they had sussed it out after the first half hour?

 

So we were within a minute or so of a creditable draw; but whether we would have deserved the point is debateable.

[OldNick]

Was Poortvliet really happy, or just putting a brave face on it? According to the match statistics, Cardiff had about two thirds of the possession. I had thought, perhaps mistakenly, that we were to be playing total football, denying the opposition possession by passing the ball around between our players, tiring them out by chasing shadows. I had read on the OS that the youngsters had learned quickly to play that system.

 

So what conclusion can we reach? That they had not learned to play that system fluently as yet? That the older players had hampered it? That Cardiff had not allowed us to play it once they had sussed it out after the first half hour?

 

So we were within a minute or so of a creditable draw; but whether we would have deserved the point is debateable.

Wes Im having trouble working out if you are being realistic or just trying to be negative to get reactions.

What choice do the club have but play the kids? Ok we could play some of the obviously disinterested star players but losing 300k a week is something we have little room to get players in.

We just have to get on with it and hope that the vigour of the kids give us some hope as time goes on.

[crouchi]

It was raining wasn't it - not ideal for holding the ball and quick pass and move. Cardiff are probably one of the better teams in the league. A creditable first performance, shame we didn't take a point. It will take time and a few wins to build real confidence.

[sambosa75]

It was raining wasn't it - not ideal for holding the ball and quick pass and move. Cardiff are probably one of the better teams in the league. A creditable first performance, shame we didn't take a point. It will take time and a few wins to build real confidence.

 

 

Especially at Ninian Park. They wont drop many points there this season.

[Andy_Porter]

It all sounds quite encouraging, i'll wait until seeing the game on Saturday before passing judgement though.

[saintjinksie]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10419

 

was he at the game?

[Snowballs2]

Wes Im having trouble working out if you are being realistic or just trying to be negative to get reactions.

What choice do the club have but play the kids? Ok we could play some of the obviously disinterested star players but losing 300k a week is something we have little room to get players in.

We just have to get on with it and hope that the vigour of the kids give us some hope as time goes on.

 

 

 

If we are still paying them , and, I expect we are, then they should have a boot up their collective backsides and be in the squad playing for a move onwards

[wiltshiresaint]

Especially at Ninian Park. They wont drop many points there this season.

 

Exactly - I don't think we did badly in truth, and I'm still fairly optimistic, especially if we turn St Mary's into a fortress. I certainly don't think we'll be relegated like Sky Sports are predicting!

[saintjinksie]

Wes Im having trouble working out if you are being realistic or just trying to be negative to get reactions.

What choice do the club have but play the kids? Ok we could play some of the obviously disinterested star players but losing 300k a week is something we have little room to get players in.

We just have to get on with it and hope that the vigour of the kids give us some hope as time goes on.

 

300k a week? i thought that figure was put to bed a while ago.

[Professor]

Was Poortvliet really happy, or just putting a brave face on it? According to the match statistics, Cardiff had about two thirds of the possession. I had thought, perhaps mistakenly, that we were to be playing total football, denying the opposition possession by passing the ball around between our players, tiring them out by chasing shadows. I had read on the OS that the youngsters had learned quickly to play that system. So what conclusion can we reach? That they had not learned to play that system fluently as yet? That the older players had hampered it? That Cardiff had not allowed us to play it once they had sussed it out after the first half hour? So we were within a minute or so of a creditable draw; but whether we would have deserved the point is debateable.

We all know exactly how JP felt because all genuine fans will feel the same. It is true that a draw at Cardiff in the first game of the season for a rebuilt young team would have been very creditable. To be so close to such a good result is a disapointment and leaves you feeling deflated.

But what the antis needed, was a clear defeat in order to justify all the negative anti-Lowe, anti JP-stuff they've been pumping out since May, so a draw would have been a bad result for them, and a close result is not much better. Now we have an anti's approach which is to pretend that the club has claimed that this squad is so good, and the tactics so advanced, that they should be expected to win every game, and if they don't, to respond to even a close result, with nothing more than sarcasm.

Fact is this result, plus Birmingham's close result at home to Sheff U, gives us good reason to look forward to next week, whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

[St Paul]

Fact is this result, plus Birmingham's close result at home to Sheff U, gives us good reason to look forward to next week, whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

One game is hardly enough time to make a judgement one way or the other as to whether JP or the team can compete. Why is there such extreme views on here, had we won yesterday we'd have had people hailing Lowe for his foresight in bringing JP in. I suggest Xmas should be the earliest anyone should be making any sort of judgement good or bad.

[Snowballs2]

We all know exactly how JP felt because all genuine fans will feel the same. It is true that a draw at Cardiff in the first game of the season for a rebuilt young team would have been very creditable. To be so close to such a good result is a disapointment and leaves you feeling deflated.

But what the antis needed, was a clear defeat in order to justify all the negative anti-Lowe, anti JP-stuff they've been pumping out since May, so a draw would have been a bad result for them, and a close result is not much better. Now we have an anti's approach which is to pretend that the club has claimed that this squad is so good, and the tactics so advanced, that they should be expected to win every game, and if they don't, to respond to even a close result, with nothing more than sarcasm.

Fact is this result, plus Birmingham's close result at home to Sheff U, gives us good reason to look forward to next week, whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

 

 

I fear that you will come down to earth with an almighty bump before long. Why is it that anyone posting has to be super positive, even when realistically we and the team are in the mire. Try a dose of realism take off those rose coloured glasses and wake up ,we will be fortunate to avoid relegation, and, when reality finally strikes home, people like you will be to blame for giving people false hope and expectation. You have a responsibility to be totally honest

[kipstryker]

We all know exactly how JP felt because all genuine fans will feel the same. It is true that a draw at Cardiff in the first game of the season for a rebuilt young team would have been very creditable. To be so close to such a good result is a disapointment and leaves you feeling deflated.

But what the antis needed, was a clear defeat in order to justify all the negative anti-Lowe, anti JP-stuff they've been pumping out since May, so a draw would have been a bad result for them, and a close result is not much better. Now we have an anti's approach which is to pretend that the club has claimed that this squad is so good, and the tactics so advanced, that they should be expected to win every game, and if they don't, to respond to even a close result, with nothing more than sarcasm.

Fact is this result, plus Birmingham's close result at home to Sheff U, gives us good reason to look forward to next week, whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

 

I think wes asks some valid questions, but ones which will not be answered for some weeks to come. It would have been great for the young lads' confidence to hold on to the draw, but the nagging doubt that some of the lovely football we have seen so far will be to no avail against uncompromising, physically stronger and more experienced teams for me remains.

To suggest Professor that we can already be sure that JP and the team can compete is one of the bolder statements you have made, especially based on only 90mins of competitive football. I hope you are right.

[Charlie Wayman]

The pity is that we couldn't have started at home, so that our kids would have had a near packed and friendly house cheering them on. Kids need encouragement especially when their tails go down for a while.. FULL STOP. We all did better as kids when we knew our family and friends were there for us come hell or high water. Good on the 2/3 thousand lads/ lassies that made it to Ninian Park but it could never have been the same as at home. So, let's get behind them next Saturday and make these home games count in every way.

[Wes Tender]

I was trying to be realistic, as I hope that I have been ever since the massive changes took place. As I said, if the statistics are correct, we did not have enough possession, which as far as I am aware should be something that is fundamental to the style of play that we are attempting to achieve. When you consider that we presumably had cut out the chancey launching of the ball upfied by the goalkeeper and also the head tennis element that has been a characteristic of our play the last few seasons, then without them the possession percentages should have increased.

 

So, I ask the question again. Was Poortvliet really impressed, or was he putting a brave face on it?

[SaintRichmond]

Was Poortvliet really happy, or just putting a brave face on it? According to the match statistics, Cardiff had about two thirds of the possession. I had thought, perhaps mistakenly, that we were to be playing total football, denying the opposition possession by passing the ball around between our players, tiring them out by chasing shadows. I had read on the OS that the youngsters had learned quickly to play that system.

 

So what conclusion can we reach? That they had not learned to play that system fluently as yet? That the older players had hampered it? That Cardiff had not allowed us to play it once they had sussed it out after the first half hour?

 

So we were within a minute or so of a creditable draw; but whether we would have deserved the point is debateable.

 

REALITY .... it was the first of 46 CCC Matches, not half paced Friendlies

 

Not a lot of point in placing faith in the Young Guns, if you still parade a Goalkeeper that has the defence defending so deep, and will not, or cann not, come for crosses

 

Did anyone notice the subtle difference in Class and Quality between Kelamity Davis and Richard Wright ???, or will I be shouted down about that too

[St_Tel49]

One game is hardly enough time to make a judgement one way or the other as to whether JP or the team can compete. Why is there such extreme views on here, had we won yesterday we'd have had people hailing Lowe for his foresight in bringing JP in. I suggest Xmas should be the earliest anyone should be making any sort of judgement good or bad.

 

Absolutely - although I think Wes was trying to express an analytical opinion here rather than prejudice. I don't agree with him entirely but I don't think that this was an anti-Lowe rant (even though he is anti-Lowe)

Edited 10 August, 2008 by St_Tel49

[St_Tel49]

Did anyone notice the subtle difference in Class and Quality between Kelamity Davis and Richard Wright ???, or will I be shouted down about that too

TBH you are stating the obvious here although I would vigorously dispute the "Calamity" title - but what would you do about it. I am not remotely convinced that Balkowski is better. Every comment I have heard from those present was that Davis kept the score down.

[Alucard]

I was trying to be realistic, as I hope that I have been ever since the massive changes took place. As I said, if the statistics are correct, we did not have enough possession, which as far as I am aware should be something that is fundamental to the style of play that we are attempting to achieve. When you consider that we presumably had cut out the chancey launching of the ball upfied by the goalkeeper and also the head tennis element that has been a characteristic of our play the last few seasons, then without them the possession percentages should have increased.

Not really true that quick passing to feet gives you more possesion time. If you hoof the ball high enough in the air that buys you 5 seconds possession time until the opposition heads it away a la our tactics last season. Also pointless passing with no attempt to make any progress earns a lot of possession points. You might have noticed that our style of play under JP is to try and get the ball forward quickly via controlled passing. This means that you also lose the ball quicker when a move breaks down. However I'm sure you much prefered Darren Powell passing to Jermaine Wright and back a couple of times before one of them tried a 50 yard welly into the opponents penalty area. That was possession football. I don't remember you being so pleased that we lost at Cardiff last season and the season before that and the season before that. Did we lose those games because we hadn't mastered the style we were playing or because the better team won on the day.

[offix]

.......

But what the antis needed, was a clear defeat in order to justify all the negative anti-Lowe, anti JP-stuff they've been pumping out since May, so a draw would have been a bad result for them, and a close result is not much better.

 

You are so full of sh@t that I am surprised you can still see colours!

[70's Mike]

You are so full of sh@t that I am surprised you can still see colours!

 

The Professor is a guy who thinks football is easy, just draft in another youngster.

If Jan is having trouble motivating the "older"players we are still paying , then what happens when all the current squad are 2 years older.

I have said since his appointment, that friends i have in Den Bosch told me you better do well in the first 2 seasons because after that we loses the players respect.

[offix]

The Professor is a guy who thinks football is easy, just draft in another youngster.

If Jan is having trouble motivating the "older"players we are still paying , then what happens when all the current squad are 2 years older.

I have said since his appointment, that friends i have in Den Bosch told me you better do well in the first 2 seasons because after that we loses the players respect.

 

Careful now, or "professor" (wow, what a misnomer) will declare that you're not a real fan LOL

[Wes Tender]

whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

 

Please show me where I have said either thing? I might have expressed severe doubts based on several factors taken into account, but I'm pretty sure that I've advocated the realistic approach of waiting to see whether results in matches that really mattered would show where we stood. I haven't even concluded what the likely outcome of the season will be based on the one match.

 

You on the other hand have rather foolishly taken the result of the only match we have played in the fizzy pop league with this team and manager and already reached a conclusion that you are not reasonably able to make, as one match is not grounds enough for any sensible conclusion.

[70's Mike]

Careful now, or "professor" (wow, what a misnomer) will declare that you're not a real fan LOL

 

Pot and Kettle.

 

I really want this to work , Chris Nichol's sides were exiting but he had quality older players.

My fear is if we sell all the players that Jan cannot motivate, and after watching the strength and power of Brum, Shef Utd, Reading and Forest plus what my 2 sons told me about yesterday ( one of whom is an FA Coach to level2) we will badly struggle and actually do more harm than good to the decent young players

[Professor]

I do apologise for suggesting that to lose by a last minute goal away from home is not confirmation that the current Saints' team is incapable of competing in the CCC. I also apologise for any suggestion that Poortvleit, a former international player and qualified coach could know more about football than 70sMike's son. I must also apologise to Wes for using the words "people like Wes" which would obviouly be taken to mean Wes himself and not others who just happen to hold similar sceptical views about the current club management. And finally, Yes, of course football is easy. As a former player in senior football, and as a Saints fan for half a century, I've seen how easy its to overcome other teams who arn't trying to win as hard as your side. I've seen Saints comfortably finish 4 places off the bottom of Div 1 and easily avoid relegation from the Prem year after year.

But I prefer to look for the good in my club and not to spend my time fearing the worst. I prefer to talk my club up, not talk it down, and if that makes me 'to blame' (Snowballs) for giving people false hopes, so what. I'm not someone, any more than the rest of you are, whose opinions count and I have no responsibility for what others think.

We can all say that one game tells you nothing, but last year's first game home 1-4defeat did tell us something, but few realised it at the time.

I will remind you guys about your posts in a few weeks time if the team is doing OK, which I believe it will. Not top of the table, but doing OK. And if the team is in the bottom 3 after 6 games, feel free to remind me of my posts!

[Wes Tender]

Quote: Professor

....whereas people like Wes have been telling us constantly that JP is not up to the job and his team could not compete in the CCC. Already shown to be wrong on both counts.

 

Ah! I see (I think) It wasn't me who said this. It was "people like me". That is why you cannot find me expressing those exact sentiments.

 

But your conclusion that you reach that "people like me", (but not me), is faulty. It has not been proven either that JP is not up to the job, nor incapable of managing in this division. That remains to be seen over the course of several more games.

[No 2 to Maybush]

Quote: Professor

 

 

Ah! I see (I think) It wasn't me who said this. It was "people like me". That is why you cannot find me expressing those exact sentiments.

 

But your conclusion that you reach that "people like me", (but not me), is faulty. It has not been proven either that JP is not up to the job, nor incapable of managing in this division. That remains to be seen over the course of several more games.

 

Now that this has been finally established as the rational approach to the team and the coaches, does this mean the b itchfest can now be drawn to a close?

 

Jeez, this site is a real downer when all you log in for is to find out how the players did in their first competitive game.

[NickG]

was he at the game?

 

the thread of those who went is in the main positive

[Broadwater Saint]

I didnt think we played too badly, I honestly felt a draw would have been fair. You can however see that we are going to struggle to score goals. For all of the nice passing football we had in the opening period, how many efforts on goal did we actually have? Ill also have more confidence in the defense when Davies is back

[Fan The Flames]

There were loads, at least 10, last minute goals yesterday. First game lack of fitness & concentration, otherwsise it would ahve been a good draw.

[Chris Medway]

REALITY .... it was the first of 46 CCC Matches, not half paced Friendlies

 

Not a lot of point in placing faith in the Young Guns, if you still parade a Goalkeeper that has the defence defending so deep, and will not, or cann not, come for crosses

 

Did anyone notice the subtle difference in Class and Quality between Kelamity Davis and Richard Wright ???, or will I be shouted down about that too

 

Yes, you will quite righly be shouted down. If you were even at the match you saw a different one to me. Kelvin made some great saves and came out for crosses. He is our number 1 keeper - not Richard Wright, he plays for Ipswich you know. Kelvin is a good keeper so why do you feel the need to criticise one of our players? The crowd at Cardiff certainly thought he was 'Super Kelv!'

[Alucard]

Did anyone notice the subtle difference in Class and Quality between Kelamity Davis and Richard Wright ???, or will I be shouted down about that too

 

Probably about 5K per week subtle difference in Class and Quality. What part of we're skint and can't afford PL style wages are you having difficulty understanding? By all accounts at the Solent forum we can't really afford KD's wages either.

[Highfield Saint]

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/coca-cola-championship/next-manager-to-leave-post

 

JP is second favourite.

[Totton Red]

Yes, you will quite righly be shouted down. If you were even at the match you saw a different one to me. Kelvin made some great saves and came out for crosses. He is our number 1 keeper - not Richard Wright, he plays for Ipswich you know. Kelvin is a good keeper so why do you feel the need to criticise one of our players? The crowd at Cardiff certainly thought he was 'Super Kelv!'

 

From the Cardiff boys point of view?

[Totton Red]

I do apologise for suggesting that to lose by a last minute goal away from home is not confirmation that the current Saints' team is incapable of competing in the CCC. I also apologise for any suggestion that Poortvleit, a former international player and qualified coach could know more about football than 70sMike's son. I must also apologise to Wes for using the words "people like Wes" which would obviouly be taken to mean Wes himself and not others who just happen to hold similar sceptical views about the current club management. And finally, Yes, of course football is easy. As a former player in senior football, and as a Saints fan for half a century, I've seen how easy its to overcome other teams who arn't trying to win as hard as your side. I've seen Saints comfortably finish 4 places off the bottom of Div 1 and easily avoid relegation from the Prem year after year.

But I prefer to look for the good in my club and not to spend my time fearing the worst. I prefer to talk my club up, not talk it down, and if that makes me 'to blame' (Snowballs) for giving people false hopes, so what. I'm not someone, any more than the rest of you are, whose opinions count and I have no responsibility for what others think.

We can all say that one game tells you nothing, but last year's first game home 1-4defeat did tell us something, but few realised it at the time.

I will remind you guys about your posts in a few weeks time if the team is doing OK, which I believe it will. Not top of the table, but doing OK. And if the team is in the bottom 3 after 6 games, feel free to remind me of my posts!

 

statistically I don't think you are risking too much!