Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 We've had a bad time over the last three or four years, actually lets not gloss things over we've had a horrendous time! Two questions: (technically four) 1) Do you feel as fans we have a right to an investor? more so than other clubs in similar positions? 2)what is the prime reason why the club has failed to attract investment under several different managements? Is it primarily the debt putting investors off or are we just not appealing? after all lots of debt ridden clubs get taken over thoughts...........:smt102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The sharp fall in attendances this season can't help much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The sharp fall in attendances this season can't help much Very true but Attendance is always relative to performances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South City Si Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 It's hard for a investor to gauge if there is a big fanbase and therefore income as numbers are very low and have dropped, could you prove people would come back just because the current board would be gone? If so I think we would deserve a good look in. The debt is fairly large, but not as big as some, and that debt, really is a mortgage, pay that off and your pretty much done. Lots of clubs are in debt like us, luckily though (or not) we already have a new stadium so do not need that further extention of our debt to build something new. If we could convince someone that the riverside next to SMS was good to develop then I think we'd also be onto a winner. The large division of shares between 'warring factions' doesn't help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 It's hard for a investor to gauge if there is a big fanbase and therefore income as numbers are very low and have dropped, could you prove people would come back just because the current board would be gone? If so I think we would deserve a good look in. The debt is fairly large, but not as big as some, and that debt, really is a mortgage, pay that off and your pretty much done. Lots of clubs are in debt like us, luckily though (or not) we already have a new stadium so do not need that further extention of our debt to build something new. If we could convince someone that the riverside next to SMS was good to develop then I think we'd also be onto a winner. The large division of shares between 'warring factions' doesn't help though. Good post, call me naive but I really do see SFC as a potential goldmine/big club, its in a good location being close to a major port and has all the right falcities and connections, all were missing is a team thats as good as everything else, investors obviously don't see it that way though, I suppose they see us as one big gamble with lowe forever a shackle round our footballing legs:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incongruous Monk Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The primary reason is probably just the complex nature and expense of buying up a traded company. So many interested parties, due diligence, etc. Can't just be done between two rich guys in a fancy restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 funny you should mention this simon jordan is on talksport and talking about things like this and mentioed us and how is cant believe we have not been given investment and/or taken over...as we are seen in his circles as a real premiership club with ALL the setup anyone would want...because of all that we are finding it hard to cope with now as we have a prem set up living in the CCC... it is strange how we have not attracted real investment imo as everything is there and all that is needed is some moderate investment into the first team to get us up IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 We've had a bad time over the last three or four years, actually lets not gloss things over we've had a horrendous time! Two questions: (technically four) thoughts...........:smt102 1) Do you feel as fans we have a right to an investor? more so than other clubs in similar positions?No, of course we don't have a 'right' to an investor any more than any other club. We are more attractive than many other clubs, but unfortunately haven't yet found the right wealthy benefactor to invest in us. 2)what is the prime reason why the club has failed to attract investment under several different managements? I believe the prime reasons we haven't found investment are because we aren't in the Prem and also aren't in London. Beyond that the fact that we are a quoted PLC which has a stock market value means that investors know that they have to spend a load of money buying up shares in order to inherit a load of debt. The PLC element is not the significant barrier, but it does put a public price on the company which is difficult to change. Newcastle have a similar problem - buy the club from Mike Ashley for £250M and inherit a load of debt - and they aren't a PLC.Is it primarily the debt putting investors off or are we just not appealing? after all lots of debt ridden clubs get taken over Agreed, loads of clubs have debt and many more have more debt after being taken over. The ability to service the debt is the key thing and that comes from being able to see a revenue stream. Being in the Prem makes that easier with the TV deal money being confirmed every 3 - 4 years. In the CCC you are relying primarily on ticket revenue and ours (like most in the CCC) is in decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 Very true but Attendance is always relative to performances Birmingham first home game of the season : 18,925 Crystal Palace first home game of last season : 25,054 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 Sorry to answer a question with a question, but the first thing that we should try to establish is what do people actually want. An Investor or a Sugar Daddy? The former will generally be looking to make money from their 'investment' and currently we, and a whole host of clubs are a long, long way from being a viable money making aquisistion. The later are very hard to find - there are not too many 'Roman Abramovich's' in this world, and when they do appear, then they will generally make a beeline for the 'more fashoinable' acquisistions (a la Manchester City). As for an investor getting us into the Premiership - that's all well and good, but it does not automatically end our funding problems. Premiership status requires the requisite quality of player, which in turn demands very high wages (some clubs spend in excess of 80 percent of turnover on wages alone). Full houses at SMS would not necessarily ease the financial pressure, look at the capacity of the big clubs now, most revenue at Prem level is generated outside of the grounds. Therefore, even with investment, and with Premiership Status we would not necessarily be financially sound. Yes, I agree - life would be a little better, but investment / sugar daddies and the premiership are not the 'be all & end all' of football and would probably not solve all of our current problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 Sorry to answer a question with a question, but the first thing that we should try to establish is what do people actually want. An Investor or a Sugar Daddy? The former will generally be looking to make money from their 'investment' and currently we, and a whole host of clubs are a long, long way from being a viable money making aquisistion. The later are very hard to find - there are not too many 'Roman Abramovich's' in this world, and when they do appear, then they will generally make a beeline for the 'more fashoinable' acquisistions (a la Manchester City). As for an investor getting us into the Premiership - that's all well and good, but it does not automatically end our funding problems. Premiership status requires the requisite quality of player, which in turn demands very high wages (some clubs spend in excess of 80 percent of turnover on wages alone). Full houses at SMS would not necessarily ease the financial pressure, look at the capacity of the big clubs now, most revenue at Prem level is generated outside of the grounds. Therefore, even with investment, and with Premiership Status we would not necessarily be financially sound. Yes, I agree - life would be a little better, but investment / sugar daddies and the premiership are not the 'be all & end all' of football and would probably not solve all of our current problems. you make a good point but what kind of problems would we be left with if we had good investment and were in the premiership? we could afford the calibre of player to stay in the prem and would have a quality manager in place, I suppose there is always the danger of the investor leaving the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The sharp fall in attendances this season can't help much But on the other hand we have proven in the past that if we are in the Prem we will get 30,000+ (virtually) every week. There are currently 9 teams in the Premier League with an average home attendance of less than 30,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 you make a good point but what kind of problems would we be left with if we had good investment and were in the premiership? we could afford the calibre of player to stay in the prem and would have a quality manager in place, I suppose there is always the danger of the investor leaving the club You gradually build it up but there does come a "boiling point" where an investor either can only take the club to a certain level or the club has to be satisfied with continuing to invest to stay at that level. This would be true of us in 2003, Bolton under Big Sam and the Skates currently. Once medium-sized clubs take their foot off of the accelerator slightly, relegation and the devastating impact follows. If an investor was satisfied with us being a PL club that finished between 7th and 14th with the odd foray into the UEFA Cup - I think we all would like that as fans - I can see it would work. The investor would take their dividend. The other big benefit of investment would be the survival, rebuilding and growth of the academy. If the Academy was full-strength again with matched but modest-investment in the first team, you'd have a strong club again so any player sales could be on our terms, as they have been before. After all, we've always sold our best young players, even Williams when we were title challengers but we haven't had to sell them for buttons before with no hope of replacing them, leading to League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 But on the other hand we have proven in the past that if we are in the Prem we will get 30,000+ (virtually) every week. There are currently 9 teams in the Premier League with an average home attendance of less than 30,000. That is a very good point. Many of the Skates I know are not convinced that even if they build their ground at Tipner, they will actually be able to fill it. These are their halycon days of the 21st century - FA Cup win, AC Milan at home and yet they only got 18000 on Sunday. They can say that their fans don't want to sit in the rusty, prehistoric Milton End but I loved that Saints team WGS built in 2002/3 and would have watched them from the roof if I'd had to - and I suffer from vertigo. Hence St James's Park is not my favourite away ground! Still, this isn't an anti-Pompey post. Brum were barely getting 20k last season in the PL and Bolton and Fulham regularly fell below this level. I won't even start on Wigan. It just shows the fanbase is still there and we still filled it for Sheff Utd last season so it isn't exclusive to the PL. In 2006/7, we got quite a few gates at 25k and above. Geography may play a part, Norwich have a very solid fanbase but no buy-out either. That said, they've come closer than us. They also got rid of their hated Chairman, Robert Chase and that has really acted as a glue even though it was more than 10 years ago. In the old Div 1, their gates were only 12-13k in the 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 But on the other hand we have proven in the past that if we are in the Prem we will get 30,000+ (virtually) every week. There are currently 9 teams in the Premier League with an average home attendance of less than 30,000. which clubs? is it because of ground capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 which clubs? is it because of ground capacity? Skates, Fulham, Wigan, Bolton - all fanbase smaller than 30k WBA, Stoke, Hull - grounds hold c27k but if Hull stay up for a couple of seasons they could get 35-40k IMO. Their catchment area is massive. Villa have got over 30k again since Learner bought them but I can remember being there 5 years ago or so when we beat them 1-0 and it was only an 18 or 19k gate. Their average was below 30k that season Boro - they have the stadium, fanbase can top 30k but only occasionally does these days. Saints have got a bit more history and profile than Boro historically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 which clubs? is it because of ground capacity? Boro Stoke West Brom Hull Fulham Bolton Blackburn Portsmouth Wigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The fans are, if only for the dedication shown in tracking paul allens yaucht! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The first step towards finding an investor would be to start looking for one - I see no evidence that Rupert Lowe is now or has in the past ever seriously sought to find new investment in SFC . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 IMHO no one who runs the club want to sell at the moment as they know that they will lose money due to low share price, they are hoping that team can sort itself out without any sort of investment Atendance is low at the moment due to lack of results, lack of a team, lack of direction but most of all it is a ****IN EXPENSIVE few hours £22 -£28 a ticket + food/ drink + travel = £35+ according to news we are in a reccesion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepgar Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 I genually beleive that we are a attractiv propsition to any investor looking to get in to football. We have the stadium, the fans base (When we were in the prem sell outs consistantly) excellent training facilities. What is topping this investor...one word...........LOWE I really don't care what poople think of my post but I do believe he is the problem...he is a control freak, who simply does not want to give up power and wants to be centre of attention. Unless like it has been put so many times, someone comes in with a lot of money to line Lowes pockets he will remain in charge. All in opionion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 I genually beleive that we are a attractiv propsition to any investor looking to get in to football. We have the stadium, the fans base (When we were in the prem sell outs consistantly) excellent training facilities. What is topping this investor...one word...........LOWE I really don't care what poople think of my post but I do believe he is the problem...he is a control freak, who simply does not want to give up power and wants to be centre of attention. Unless like it has been put so many times, someone comes in with a lot of money to line Lowes pockets he will remain in charge. All in opionion of course. I thought we had some company looking for investors or has that contract been cancelled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 you make a good point but what kind of problems would we be left with if we had good investment and were in the premiership? we could afford the calibre of player to stay in the prem and would have a quality manager in place, I suppose there is always the danger of the investor leaving the club The problem remains, what is good investment? We refused the deal that Coventry City eventually accepted, and whilst I know nothing about the details, I am led to believe that they had little option in accepting the 'so called' investment. But where has it actually got them - I see little signs of them actually benefitting in any spectacular way. Much was made of the investment at QPR - again - not really setting the world alight right now are they? My point is that the level of investment required to guarantee an 'instant fix' (promotion back to the Premiership) would be very, very high. Given that the investor then becomes responsible for our already outstanding debt, you begin to see that it is unlikely that the investor will make any gain on their outlay for a quite considerable period of time. Further risk is added because there is no real guarantee that promotion would be achieved. Even if it was, I go back to my original point of Premiership wages and running costs - they are exorborant compared with the CCC, where we are currently barely keeping our heads above the water. Yes investment would be welcomed - but it wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. Promotion would be welcome, again it could bring more woes than benefit. The club needs to be run within it's means, any investor needs to be in it for the long haul, and perhaps expect not to have a return on thier dividend for some considerable time. Failing that it's back to the Sugar Daddy with pockets so deep you could drill for oil in them...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 The first step towards finding an investor would be to start looking for one - I see no evidence that Rupert Lowe is now or has in the past ever seriously sought to find new investment in SFC . this is prob a stupid question but why can't Lowe issue a list of investors he's aproached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 Does no-on recall that the reason we apparently needed Lowe was investment in the club? Hmm, funny old world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 To be fair to old Lowey, Like The Stadium...He got us, The Man Utd in the cup investment. Now how did he do that...bit like The reverse Takeover...Am I seeing three card trick every where I look. Merry xmas Lowey and Wildey...only if we win some games before then and hopefully get some investment from some old geezer in a red suit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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