Viking Warrior Posted 29 January, 2014 Share Posted 29 January, 2014 I see that Snowden the whistle blower has been nominated for this years peace prize . If he wins it the award will lose all credibility . How many people has he put in danger because of all the data he stole ? Where does he live in a land of the free and total democracy . Yeh right Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1885 Posted 29 January, 2014 Share Posted 29 January, 2014 Obama won it, shortly after taking office, keeping up Guantanamo and assassinating Bin Laden afterwards... It lost its credibility there already, if not earlier. Snowden did the right thing, showing the world that NSA and co are taking liberties. Not worth a noble prize, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 January, 2014 Share Posted 29 January, 2014 I take it Bobby Davro has been overlooked yet again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 29 January, 2014 Share Posted 29 January, 2014 Snowden did a brave thing. He is being forced to live in Russia because the US would stick him in prison or assassinate him if he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2014 Share Posted 29 January, 2014 Obama won it, shortly after taking office, keeping up Guantanamo and assassinating Bin Laden afterwards... It lost its credibility there already, if not earlier. Snowden did the right thing, showing the world that NSA and co are taking liberties. Not worth a noble prize, of course. Kissinger won it. Pretty much had no credibility after that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Kissinger won it. Pretty much had no credibility after that point. Exactly. Kissinger is not a man of peace - he is a war criminal. Just like Ariel Sharon. No amount of whitewashing events can change those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Exactly. Kissinger is not a man of peace - he is a war criminal. Just like Ariel Sharon. No amount of whitewashing events can change those facts. No argument from me against this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I see that Snowden the whistle blower has been nominated for this years peace prize . If he wins it the award will lose all credibility . How many people has he put in danger because of all the data he stole ? Where does he live in a land of the free and total democracy . Yeh right Russia Completely agree with you. I personally am hoping the CIA are planning a poison-tipped umbrella exercise. I found it nasueating that C4 invited him to do an alternative Xmas speech (but then I find the whole concept abhorrent). I think hes done this for personal gain, not for any noble or moral reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Obama won it, shortly after taking office, keeping up Guantanamo and assassinating Bin Laden afterwards... It lost its credibility there already, if not earlier. Snowden did the right thing, showing the world that NSA and co are taking liberties. Not worth a noble prize, of course. Yeah, defending the national interest and the safety of the nations citizens. How f**king outrageous. We're only so outraged because we aint as good at it as them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Yeah, defending the national interest and the safety of the nations citizens. How f**king outrageous. We're only so outraged because we aint as good at it as them. Or alternatively, collecting vast amounts of personal information to get blackmailing information, etc. btw, can anyone thinking of the "if you've got nothing to hide" line please send me all of your electronic communications. PM me (or email NSA) for contact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Or alternatively, collecting vast amounts of personal information to get blackmailing information, etc. btw, can anyone thinking of the "if you've got nothing to hide" line please send me all of your electronic communications. PM me (or email NSA) for contact details. So loads of normal citizens with nothing to hide and normally nothing to fear are being blackmailed by that behemoth the NSA, are they ? What utter b*ll*cks. Your outrage is totally synthetic, based on some utterly ridiculous high morally with no basis in reality. If the NSA didnt have access to and the ability to use information about someone, some other institution in some other country would have it. And you have NO idea how many times their information collection has potentially saved large numbers of lives, possibly including your own, because to divulge such information would compromise the process. so in the absence of such information you just assume that it hasnt happened. Very superificial of you........ Snowden is a traitor that deserves to swing from a rope or to be done extra crispy. I hope he can look in a mirror if another 9/11 happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 A quote from Nobel Peace Laureate, Theodore Roosevelt: “I don’t go as far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely in the case of the tenth.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 So loads of normal citizens with nothing to hide and normally nothing to fear are being blackmailed by that behemoth the NSA, are they ? What utter b*ll*cks. Your outrage is totally synthetic, based on some utterly ridiculous high morally with no basis in reality. If the NSA didnt have access to and the ability to use information about someone, some other institution in some other country would have it. And you have NO idea how many times their information collection has potentially saved large numbers of lives, possibly including your own, because to divulge such information would compromise the process. so in the absence of such information you just assume that it hasnt happened. Very superificial of you........ Snowden is a traitor that deserves to swing from a rope or to be done extra crispy. I hope he can look in a mirror if another 9/11 happens. Ok, we have a taker. Send your porn browsing history for the last three years, please Alps. Let's see how much you have to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) Completely agree with you. I personally am hoping the CIA are planning a poison-tipped umbrella exercise. I found it nasueating that C4 invited him to do an alternative Xmas speech (but then I find the whole concept abhorrent). I think hes done this for personal gain, not for any noble or moral reasons. Gives you a raging hard on doesn't it tough guy. Perhaps one of the biggest losses to UK national security was that a hero like you chose to be a keyboard warrior on the interweb rather than becoming the next James Bond. Edited 30 January, 2014 by anothersaintinsouthsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) Gives you a raging hard on doesn't it tough guy. Perhaps one of the biggest losses to UK national security was that a hero like you chose to be a keyboard warrior on the interweb rather that become the next James Bond. Alps' position on the US is laughably inconsistent. Watch this; Alps. Was Franklin Delano Roosevelt a friend or foe of the UK? Edited 30 January, 2014 by pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Obama won it, shortly after taking office, keeping up Guantanamo and assassinating Bin Laden afterwards... It lost its credibility there already, if not earlier. Snowden did the right thing, showing the world that NSA and co are taking liberties. Not worth a noble prize, of course. Robert Mugabe was nominated To be fair to Obama he's tried to close Guantanamo a few times but been blocked by the Republicans. I don't think he deserved his prize though as he had accomplished nothing of note at the time and is warmongering his merry way through office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Does anyone really care anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I think people are a little confused about what the Nobel peace prize is for. Its awarded for specific acts of peacemaking - its not some kind of lifetime achievement award. Inevitably many of those involved in the most dramatic acts of peace will have previously been protagonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I think people are a little confused about what the Nobel peace prize is for. Its awarded for specific acts of peacemaking - its not some kind of lifetime achievement award. Inevitably many of those involved in the most dramatic acts of peace will have previously been protagonists. That's like someone being given a gold star for cleaning up a dump they've done on the teacher's desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Does anyone really care anyway? tbf, I think Alps and possibly VW would like to be in a room, 24-style, with Snowden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 That's like someone being given a gold star for cleaning up a dump they've done on the teacher's desk. Thats what peacemaking often is. Mother Theresa didnt start any wars so she didnt have the power to stop any. Where would the NI peace process be if McGuiness and Billy Wright had been excluded? What are the chances of peace in Afghanistan without involving the Taliban leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Ok, we have a taker. Send your porn browsing history for the last three years, please Alps. Let's see how much you have to hide. Dotcom made a good agrument against the 'nothing to hide brigade' recently. 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable leaving the front door to your home permanently open?' 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable walking around in the street with no clothes on?' 'Everybody has a need, and a right to privacy, online and offline' I hope Snowden gets the NPP, I believe history will remember him in a good light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I personally am hoping the CIA are planning a poison-tipped umbrella exercise. But then he will certainly win it (albeit posthumously). Let him rot in the Soviet Union... sorry 'Russia' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Dotcom made a good agrument against the 'nothing to hide brigade' recently. 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable leaving the front door to your home permanently open?' 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable walking around in the street with no clothes on?' 'Everybody has a need, and a right to privacy, online and offline' I hope Snowden gets the NPP, I believe history will remember him in a good light. The thing that really irks me about the "if you have nothing to hide" argument is that agreement to that, implicit or explicit, is agreement to a fundamental shift in the 'social contract'. Supposedly, in a Liberal Democracy you are innocent until proven guilty. Accepting the line, "if you have nothing to hide" is accepting that everyone is guilty, until they prove themselves innocent. Which is my problem with that argument, and all this NSA crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Dotcom made a good agrument against the 'nothing to hide brigade' recently. 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable leaving the front door to your home permanently open?' 'If you have nothing to hide, are you comfortable walking around in the street with no clothes on?' 'Everybody has a need, and a right to privacy, online and offline' I hope Snowden gets the NPP, I believe history will remember him in a good light. You and I don't often agree on much, but we do here. I'm happier than most to divulge personal details; that doesn't mean that I actually expect Alps to send me his porn search history tho'. Privacy is hugely important. It's arguably the only thing that's truly ours. I also think that the power of blackmail is hugely underestimated. Look at what we've learned in the past 12 months with respect to organised paedophiliia in the establishment. Savile apparently a fixer for the rich and famous, given a knighthood under protest of Thatcher's advisers (Thatcher surely was told off-the-record what the score REALLY was), numerous political figures in the frame. http://www.tpuc.org/blair-covering-up-paedophile-scandal/ Blair issued a D-Notice on the findings of Operation Ore under the guise of national security. Many speculated that blackmail could have been a driving factor in the Labour government's inexplicable decision to fabricate the case for war in Iraq. Given what we know now, doesn't seem to be outside the realms of possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 and waste of time the sponsorship is as well, I don't even know what Nobel do , never mind consider buying one. (wink) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 30 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 January, 2014 hole puncture re I hope Snowden gets the NPP, I believe history will remember him in a good light. I have the complete opposite view He was employed in a position of trust, he brole that trust, If he didnt like what he was emplyed to do , he should have left and found a different Job He4 betrayed his employers and his colleagues and no doubt put others in danger Do you think the Chinese and Russian were going to destroy the information he supplied Now they will use the key and secret information he had for their own use Sorry guys who are pro snowden. Im not . He should have stayed in the USA and face the consequences of his action Just remind me how much freedom of choice you have in Russia and venezuela his prefered country of residence, Snowden is a traitor and betrayed his country , he sold his soul to the devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 30 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Pap I agree with some of your points re D notices etc re iraq and blair but I will not change my views on snowden and assange . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 hole puncture re I hope Snowden gets the NPP, I believe history will remember him in a good light. I have the complete opposite view He was employed in a position of trust, he brole that trust, If he didnt like what he was emplyed to do , he should have left and found a different Job He4 betrayed his employers and his colleagues and no doubt put others in danger Do you think the Chinese and Russian were going to destroy the information he supplied Now they will use the key and secret information he had for their own use Sorry guys who are pro snowden. Im not . He should have stayed in the USA and face the consequences of his action Just remind me how much freedom of choice you have in Russia and venezuela his prefered country of residence, Snowden is a traitor and betrayed his country , he sold his soul to the devil Surely too the govt and security agencies and are in a position of trust too. What Snowden has exposed is that that position has been badly abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Pap I agree with some of your points re D notices etc re iraq and blair but I will not change my views on snowden and assange . Depends who you hold fealty to, I guess. Your government or your fellow human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 and waste of time the sponsorship is as well, I don't even know what Nobel do , never mind consider buying one. (wink) He invented Dynamite and also owned Bofors. He wanted to be remembered for something other than blowing things up or killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Oi Pap, we almost agree on this one. How novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 30 January, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 January, 2014 yep government are in a position of trust but the security forces need to protect us the best the can and do what ever it takes with in reason to protect us Wheres Jack Bauer when you need him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I think people are a little confused about what the Nobel peace prize is for. Its awarded for specific acts of peacemaking - its not some kind of lifetime achievement award. Inevitably many of those involved in the most dramatic acts of peace will have previously been protagonists. I understand your point and agree to a certain extent, but the Nobel committee can be quite inconsistent. Barack Obama didn't do any "specific" peacemaking, did he? His prize seemed to be merely a metaphorical huge sigh or relief that the U.S. President was no longer GWB! Kissinger's "act of peacemakling" - the winding up of the failed Vietnam War - came after a long period of escalation (the carpet bombing of Cambodia, for example), when the U.S. attempted to win the war with a massive wave of destruction. Like giving someone an award because they've stopped torturing and poisoning people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 This thread has made me chuckle, a leftist and rightist view on everything by all, so biased, see the person solely the person for what they are not necessarily their parties, Kissinger was doled out by many people at many times and did good and bad (very bad and am amazed he was allowed to do so) but I am enjoying the historical lesson of a pawn in a World game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xghrs_N4Vuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 This thread has made me chuckle, a leftist and rightist view on everything by all, so biased, see the person solely the person for what they are not necessarily their parties, Kissinger was doled out by many people at many times and did good and bad (very bad and am amazed he was allowed to do so) but I am enjoying the historical lesson of a pawn in a World game. How do you see a person for what they are? You can't see inside their soul; you can't examine their conscience. You note what they do. Kissinger didn't "belong" to a political party. He wasn't a Republican or Democrat. His party was the party of self. He was willing to do and say whatever advanced his own drive for power and influence. Check the historical record. See what policies he pursued in Vietnam - and Chile and many other parts of the world. He is personally responsible for the death of tens of thousands of people. He supported fascist despots because of his belief in realpolitik. Power and influence, that is; not truth and justice. Would you rather have a bias in favour of those who seek and exercise power, or those who work for truth and justice? My bias is for the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Don't forget Cyprus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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