Saint Charlie Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 Was just wondering, over the last 15-20 years or so, how many players developed by the club's hugely successful academy have actually played over 100 games for Saints? Bridge Oakley Lallana Surman Any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 Oakley 311 Lallana 250* Bridge 174 Surman 146 That's the entire list of 100+ appearances of academy graduates who have featured this century. Surprisingly few, but then I guess the likes of Bale, Walcott and Chamberlain all left before they'd played 50 games. What's particularly impressive is the number of current squad members with 100+ appearances: K Davis (292), Lallana (250), Lambert (220), Schneiderlin (218 ), Fonte (168 ), Cork (124), Guly (113). Full list of 100+ appearances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southampton_F.C._players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 So if Lallana stays here for his entire career and is fortunate with injury, could wind up being second on the all-time appearance list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 What about MLT? Swear he was on youth terms for a year before signing a pro contract so should his 400+ apps not be up there too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 What about MLT? Swear he was on youth terms for a year before signing a pro contract so should his 400+ apps not be up there too? He was a trialist, even had a go at Oxford United first, not technically an academy product.... If we need to thank anyone it's Vale Recreation in Guernsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 (edited) According to that link Terry Paine made 815 appearances in the 17 years between 1957 - 1974, which works out an average of 47 appearances a season!! Christ that's impressive, especially with a few England appearances on top of that. edit: I know most fans probably know this fact, and I'm well aware Paine is a saints legend, I'd just never really took the time to read the statistics about him. Edited 23 April, 2014 by bpsaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 23 April, 2014 Share Posted 23 April, 2014 Everybody's forgotten Benali. He played for saints this century, came through the academy and featured well over 100 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Everybody's forgotten Benali. He played for saints this century, came through the academy and featured well over 100 times. Was thinking slightly more recently but of course that is true. Suprising how few have done it though. Perhaps an argument to suggest that our Academy hasn't really produced quality players for our first team long term but instead has developed players for football in general. Certainly of the more recent Academy players only Lallana has anything near Saints hero/legend status which is a shame considering the volume and quality of player the system generates. Sadly Chambers will be another unlikely to reach 100 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu0x Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Suprising how few have done it though. Perhaps an argument to suggest that our Academy hasn't really produced quality players for our first team long term but instead has developed players for football in general. Is it that surprising? Or is it just a function of the modern game? One-club-men are a very small minority in the PL era. I think the average stay for a pro player at a club is just over 2 seasons (less than 100 matches), and transfers are skewed towards the beginning and end of a player's career. So it stands to reason that the vast majority of academy graduates won't hit that landmark before moving on. Does that devalue the achievement of the academy? Id argue the opposite. It's more of an achievement to produce a player of sufficiently quality to be attractive to a better team. It says more to have produced Gareth Bale who has gone on to become the most expensive player in the world, than it does to produce Francis Benali who arguably never attracted any attention from a top tier club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 He was a trialist, even had a go at Oxford United first, not technically an academy product.... If we need to thank anyone it's Vale Recreation in Guernsey. He wasn't a triallist, he signed YTS in 1985 when he was 16. He had a trial at Oxford when he was 15 but never signed for them. I think he only really played the one season (and scored over 50 goals), as he was with the first team fairly early in his career. You can also add Shearer and Maddison to the list of players with over 100 appearances from that same youth period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Does that devalue the achievement of the academy? Id argue the opposite. It's more of an achievement to produce a player of sufficiently quality to be attractive to a better team. It says more to have produced Gareth Bale who has gone on to become the most expensive player in the world, than it does to produce Francis Benali who arguably never attracted any attention from a top tier club. The sum of Benali's appearances made a far greater impact on Saints than the transfer money we got for Bale. Club has said the role of the Academy is to produce players for our first team and to have 50% making up the starting XI. If you let players go before they really start realising potential then that will never be very hard to do whilst also playing at a high level. When Kids grown up in our Academy they see it as a way to join a big club rather than play for Saints which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 The sum of Benali's appearances made a far greater impact on Saints than the transfer money we got for Bale. Club has said the role of the Academy is to produce players for our first team and to have 50% making up the starting XI. If you let players go before they really start realising potential then that will never be very hard to do whilst also playing at a high level. When Kids grown up in our Academy they see it as a way to join a big club rather than play for Saints which is a shame. This is another club claim that had the cynics rolling about laughing (along with 'Premier League in 5 years) yet, amazingly, we are pretty much there now. We've seen Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Ward Prowse and Gallagher all on the pitch at the same time. And still we have Reed on the bench! I really think we have broken the mould of being a selling club. Yes, there may be exceptional talents who decide to move on, but if they did not we would soon have some talent frustrated by not being able to break through to first team football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2014 This is another club claim that had the cynics rolling about laughing (along with 'Premier League in 5 years) yet, amazingly, we are pretty much there now. We've seen Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Ward Prowse and Gallagher all on the pitch at the same time. And still we have Reed on the bench! I really think we have broken the mould of being a selling club. Yes, there may be exceptional talents who decide to move on, but if they did not we would soon have some talent frustrated by not being able to break through to first team football. But if Shaw, Chamber and AL for example were to leave in the next two years then it would be JWP plyus Gallagher who isn't a proven first team player. Shame that most of the better Academy players don't even stay for a fifth of their career. We have been lucky with the quality of player we have had until now, but it can't carry on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 (edited) Pre academy it was school of excellence, associate schoolboys and then apprentice or yts. Steve baker and rod Wallace both were at the club prior to the yts element, so confident enough to add them to the 100 plus club. Bobby Stokes also served his apprenticeship with Saints, so shouldn't he also be counted. I am slightly less sure about Steve Moran, but given his locality I suspect he was training with the club long before he went pro at the age of 18. Edited 24 April, 2014 by Chez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 (edited) This is another club claim that had the cynics rolling about laughing (along with 'Premier League in 5 years) yet, amazingly, we are pretty much there now. We've seen Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Ward Prowse and Gallagher all on the pitch at the same time. And still we have Reed on the bench! I really think we have broken the mould of being a selling club. Yes, there may be exceptional talents who decide to move on, but if they did not we would soon have some talent frustrated by not being able to break through to first team football. I don't think anyone ever laughed at the idea of getting back into the Premier League in 5 years or using half a team of academy products - it was the Champions League aspirations attached to it that got people rightly chuckling. Edited 24 April, 2014 by Sour Mash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 How many did Baird or McGoldrick play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Baird - 68 DMG - 64 Nathan Dyer - 56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 What about MLT? Swear he was on youth terms for a year before signing a pro contract so should his 400+ apps not be up there too? Yeah, I basically just picked players who had played in the last decade or so (more or less since the FA Cup final). I was tired so accidentally wrote "this century" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Kevin Phillips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Pre academy it was school of excellence, associate schoolboys and then apprentice or yts. Steve baker and rod Wallace both were at the club prior to the yts element, so confident enough to add them to the 100 plus club. Bobby Stokes also served his apprenticeship with Saints, so shouldn't he also be counted. I am slightly less sure about Steve Moran, but given his locality I suspect he was training with the club long before he went pro at the age of 18. Lets not forget Danny Wallace who most certainly would have played more than 100, but the 3rd amigo, Ray was only there to make up the numbers and maybe a Guiness Book of Records attempt ;-) Others further back who have cracked the 100 club after progressing from the younger ranks include illustrious players such as Martin Chivers, Micky Channon, Steve Moran and Stevie Williams. Then there was the successful North East youth recruitment which yielded Shearer, Maddison and Widderington (not sure if they make it into the 100 club). Around the same time Doddsy was picked up from the Bath area. The lower leagues and Prem are littered with Academy players, who may not have clocked up a great many appearances, but whose transfer fees helped keeping the clunb in business and be in a position to be where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Baird - 68 DMG - 64 Nathan Dyer - 56 Lloyd James 71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 April, 2014 Share Posted 24 April, 2014 Would also be interesting to know what has happened to all the scholars of the past 20 years who made it through to 18 - how many made a career in professional football and in what division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 27 June, 2014 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Shaw left on 60 I think. Hard to really see the Academy as a way of producing players for our own first team over the view that it is a very effective financial model. JWP might make 100 but I doubt Chambers will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 This article says that 17 Saints academy graduates have played 5 or more times for the club in the Premier League? SOUTHAMPTON GRADUATE XI GK: N/A Calum Chambers (12- ) Martin Crainie (04-07) Wayne Bridge (98-03) Luke Shaw (12- ) James Ward-Prowse (11- ) Matthew Oakley (94-06) Nathan Dyer (05-09) Theo Walcott (05-06) Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (10-11) Steve Basham (96-99) No of seasons in the top-flight: 15 No of English graduates to appear five or more times in the Premier League: 17 SOUTHAMPTON GRADUATE XI GK: N/A Calum Chambers (12- ) Martin Crainie (04-07) Wayne Bridge (98-03) Luke Shaw (12- ) James Ward-Prowse (11- ) Matthew Oakley (94-06) Nathan Dyer (05-09) Theo Walcott (05-06) Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (10-11) Steve Basham (96-99) No of seasons in the top-flight: 15 No of English graduates to appear five or more times in the Premier League: 17 Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2671578/Has-Premier-Leagues-love-foreign-stars-ruined-England-After-dismal-World-Cup-just-English-academy-graduates-YOUR-club-brought-through.html#ixzz35qxyX2C9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 July, 2014 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2014 Can add Chambers to the list now. JWP perhaps might do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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