What is wrong with America

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, trousers said:

We loved it. Yep, Mahe. Having our own villa with a private pool might have helped the enjoyment levels to be fair

fair point

I went years ago, remember wandering around Victoria and thinking it was a massive shit hole.

 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Appreciate we're going off topic here but would appreciate recommendations of which part(s) of Sardinia to stay as it's on our shortlist for next year. Would be our first visit. And any other tips. Cheers.

I’ve been to Olbia area twice, a good base to do Costa Esmerelda, La Maddelena which are must visits and can even do a day trip across to Corsica from there

we've also been to Alghero which is a beautiful old town and some really good agritourismos to eat at dotted about 

the local wine, Vermantino is beautiful and cheap and the Sardinian traditional meal Is suckling pig which is absolutely delicious. 
 

best thing to do is hire a car and drive round the beaches are clear blue water and white sand and you’re only a half hour up into the hills. Loads of really nice little towns as well. 

weve not done the south yet but will be soon

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

In the video I watched, he wasn't saying that. He was simply saying that if you have quotas based on factors other than how good you are, you *might* not end up with the very best people in a given role. He never says that unqualified or incapable people could end up in said roles. I've only watched that one video though. 

The original quote from his podcast he was being challenged on was...

“I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified".

Whichever way you look at it, that's racial profiling.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Lush! Was it great?

Been to Bahamas and all around the Caribbean but never there. Another destination I’d love to go to is the South Seas islands, Moorea and Cook Islands.

But need to finish renovating this house first…

Never been to a Carribbean island for some reason, despite always being on our short list. Going to Cancun in December, which is close I guess... 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

The original quote from his podcast he was being challenged on was...

“I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified".

Whichever way you look at it, that's racial profiling.

similar thoughts when I see or hear Eni Aluko offering some punditry, then know it is not about qualifications!

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

similar thoughts when I see or hear Eni Aluko offering some punditry, then know it is not about qualifications!

What qualifications do you need to be a football pundit?

Edited 18 hours ago by Sheaf Saint

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

We loved it. Yep, Mahe. Having our own villa with a private pool might have helped the enjoyment levels to be fair

That said, I preferred Mauritius to the Seychelles, but would recommend both. 

I went to Mauritius several years ago for my them companies top performers club, great memories and didn’t spend a penny either getting there or whilst there 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

What qualifications do you need to be a football pundits?

what ever they are, she does not have them (IMO)

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ha! No... I won that particular battle... Ended up going to The Seychelles... 😁⛱️☀️

Weirdly my missus rejected Sardinia despite Turkish’s recommendation - I was keen too as love Italy. She has no logic although think I now need a mortgage to pay off her cocktail bill tonight

[trousers]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

The original quote from his podcast he was being challenged on was...

“I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified".

Whichever way you look at it, that's racial profiling.

Yeah, that doesn't read well to be fair, but he does qualify what he meant in the video I watched. i.e. more like: "I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's didn't get the job at the expense of someone who was more qualified because of DEI measures". (Paraphrased). 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, trousers said:

Yeah, that doesn't read well to be fair, but he does qualify what he meant in the video I watched. i.e. more like: "I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's didn't get the job at the expense of someone who was more qualified because of DEI measures". (Paraphrased). 

which is the area the RAF were heading by consciously and illegally narrowing their talent pool

[iansums]

Have we got a travel thread?

[hypochondriac]

Just now, trousers said:

Yeah, that doesn't read well to be fair, but he does qualify what he meant in the video I watched. i.e. more like: "I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's didn't get the job at the expense of someone who was more qualified because of DEI measures". (Paraphrased). 

His point was that DEI hiring means that it was no longer certain that the most qualified or most competent person was getting jobs anymore since hiring was not necessarily on merit anymore.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

fair point

I went years ago, remember wandering around Victoria and thinking it was a massive shit hole.

 

Yeah, inclined to agree with that assessment of the capital to be fair. 

[trousers]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

His point was that DEI hiring means that it was no longer certain that the most qualified or most competent person was getting jobs anymore since hiring was not necessarily on merit anymore.

Yep, that was my take on it. One can obviously disagree with his views on DEI but his explanation convinced me he wasn't being racist. In fact, his viewpoint was that the colour of someone's skin shouldn't matter, which is the opposite of racism, isn't it?

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what ever they are, she does not have them (IMO)

I can think of plenty of white, male pundits worse than she is. It's odd that you would single her out as being particularly bad.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Weirdly my missus rejected Sardinia despite Turkish’s recommendation - I was keen too as love Italy. She has no logic although think I now need a mortgage to pay off her cocktail bill tonight

I’d go as far as to say it’s probably my favourite place. Absolutely beautiful with the class and culture of Italy. Mrs Whelk needs is missing out. Sicily is also great no

 

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

What qualifications do you need to be a football pundit?

Why do chickens go to the gym?

to work on their pecks 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

which is the area the RAF were heading by consciously and illegally narrowing their talent pool

Which they did too rapidly and in a way which was illegal and poor practice. The enquiry findings were fair and correct. 

What I’m keen not to see is all inclusion chucked in the bin and lumped together. 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, iansums said:

Have we got a travel thread?

We’ve got a boasting about where we’re going on holiday thread if that counts?

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I’ve been to Olbia area twice, a good base to do Costa Esmerelda, La Maddelena which are must visits and can even do a day trip across to Corsica from there

we've also been to Alghero which is a beautiful old town and some really good agritourismos to eat at dotted about 

the local wine, Vermantino is beautiful and cheap and the Sardinian traditional meal Is suckling pig which is absolutely delicious. 
 

best thing to do is hire a car and drive round the beaches are clear blue water and white sand and you’re only a half hour up into the hills. Loads of really nice little towns as well. 

weve not done the south yet but will be soon

Cheers @Turkish - appreciated 👍🏻

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, that was my take on it. One can obviously disagree with his views on DEI but his explanation convinced me he wasn't being racist. In fact, his viewpoint was that the colour of someone's skin shouldn't matter, which is the opposite of racism, isn't it?

Yes. His point was that it was the racist actions of others giving people preferential treatment based on skin colour that meant he was not able to be sure that someone black was not hired due to the colour of their skin rather than their ability. Not racist at all.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just now, trousers said:

Yep, that was my take on it. One can obviously disagree with his views on DEI but his explanation convinced me he wasn't being racist. In fact, his viewpoint was that the colour of someone's skin shouldn't matter, which is the opposite of racism, isn't it?

But the original quote demonstrates that he could look at someone and, based on the colour of their skin, question whether they are even qualified at all, not whether they were the most qualified person at the selection stage.

At best, that's just extremely ignorant of how DEI practices work. At worst, it's outright racist.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

We’ve got a boasting about where we’re going on holiday thread if that counts?

Tbf I was only in Istanbul to give a keynote lecture on advanced shelf stacking - the layman would not believe there is so much nuance and complexity.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

His point was that DEI hiring means that it was no longer certain that the most qualified or most competent person was getting jobs anymore since hiring was not necessarily on merit anymore.

American affirmative action was also quite different for some years which is important context as well.  The Equality Act here is a lot more about safeguards and small adjustments to level things up, there’s no discounts whatsoever on the threshold for succeeding. 

But IIRC you lived in America in the past so you probably know that anyway.

Edited 18 hours ago by Gloucester Saint
Action

[Turkish]

Just now, whelk said:

Tbf I was only in Istanbul to give a keynote lecture on advanced shelf stacking - the layman would not believe there is so much nuance and complexity.

Guess it probably helps in their shops telling them where to put the fake Lacoste polos, flip flops and shisha pipes 

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what ever they are, she does not have them (IMO)

Does Paul Merson ?

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I’d go as far as to say it’s probably my favourite place.

Next time I will assert myself and say “you know who’s paying for this fucking holiday?”

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I can think of plenty of white, male pundits worse than she is. It's odd that you would single her out as being particularly bad.

I think it's being not very good combined with the air of superiority she exudes and playing the race card whilst coming accross as not particularly bright. See here for a clear example:

 

[Sir Ralph]

16 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

The original quote from his podcast he was being challenged on was...

“I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified".

Whichever way you look at it, that's racial profiling.

You would need to watch the original video to see the context. Doesn’t DEI, in some instances, racially profile people by virtue of its concept?

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

American affirmative action was also quite different for some years which is important context as well.  The Equality Act here is a lot more about safeguards and small adjustments to level things up, there’s no discounts whatsoever on the threshold for succeeding. 

But IIRC you lived in America in the past so you probably know that anyway.

Yes and I do understand the desire to course correct in America due to their racial issues which have been much greater than ours. I still don't agree with it though. We don't tend to have much of it in this country though thankfully.

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

But the original quote demonstrates that he could look at someone and, based on the colour of their skin, question whether they are even qualified at all, not whether they were the most qualified person at the selection stage.

At best, that's just extremely ignorant of how DEI practices work. At worst, it's outright racist.

Sounds like I should watch the original video to be able to come up with an informed viewpoint on your conclusion 👍🏻

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I can think of plenty of white, male pundits worse than she is. It's odd that you would single her out as being particularly bad.

It doesn’t sit well agreeing with Batman but she is dreadful. Plenty of decent female pundits but she isn’t one of them IMO

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You would need to watch the original video to see the context. Doesn’t DEI, in some instances, racially profile people by virtue of its concept?

It doesn't make negative assumptions about people based on their ethnic background, as Kirk did in his podcast.

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It doesn't make negative assumptions about people based on their ethnic background, as Kirk did in his podcast.

What he says later in the clip is better but that first assumption is nuts. If it wasn’t for clinicians from BAME backgrounds, I wouldn’t be celebrating hopefully a Saints victory on Sunday with loved ones.

Likewise, white clinicians made mistakes which killed my cousin. Doesn’t mean that I automatically see a young white junior doctor and think ‘are you only here because you got a bursary because you were the first in your family to go to university?’.

[Sir Ralph]

12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It doesn't make negative assumptions about people based on their ethnic background, as Kirk did in his podcast.

He didn’t say black people couldnt fly planes for some reason. That would have been making negative assumptions or racist. 

He used that only as an example (he has used other groups, including white people to make the case against DEI also) that DEI could select somebody based on their skin colour. In fact he is arguing against racial profiling that he perceives DEI introduces. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sheaf Saint]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think it's being not very good combined with the air of superiority she exudes and playing the race card whilst coming accross as not particularly bright. See here for a clear example:

 

Oh I agree she's not a great pundit, and her playing the race card doesn't go down well with many people, it's true. But she is at least well spoken and I would still rather listen to her than Paul Merson or Wayne Rooney.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

He didn’t say black people couldnt fly planes for some reason. That would have been making negative assumptions or racist. 

I know, and I never claimed that's what he said. But what he did say was that he could look at a black pilot and believe that he/she might not actually be qualified and therefore hasn't passed the extremely rigorous testing process that all airline pilots must go through in order to obtain their licence.

That's a special kind of stupid.

[egg]

Simon Bodkin's US gun problem explanation/analogy made me chuckle.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOdZQNyiPZn/?igsh=ZndncG9pMXl3ZzR6

Has the travel show finished? Was enjoying that. 

[Sir Ralph]

31 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I know, and I never claimed that's what he said. But what he did say was that he could look at a black pilot and believe that he/she might not actually be qualified and therefore hasn't passed the extremely rigorous testing process that all airline pilots must go through in order to obtain their licence.

That's a special kind of stupid.

He didn’t say that at all.

What he said in response to a question was United Airlines wanted to employ 50% women and people of colour (their description). He said that because of that policy it would mean that you wouldn’t necessarily get the best people for the job as you are prioritising someone’s profile instead of their competency . This would reduce standards for pilots in this scenario. He didn’t say they wouldn’t be qualified.  He said the quality would reduce, and therefore DEI profiling lowers standards and this is why DEI isn’t good, in his opinion.
 

He is also using pilots as an example only - the principle he is arguing is intended to apply to a range of roles and different groups of people

Edited 17 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

50 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

But the original quote demonstrates that he could look at someone and, based on the colour of their skin, question whether they are even qualified at all, not whether they were the most qualified person at the selection stage.

At best, that's just extremely ignorant of how DEI practices work. At worst, it's outright racist.

I think the problem is some people don't understand what racism is.

To be fair, in this day and age with the rise of the right it has been watered down, especially with posters like Hypo and their Muslim/Non-Muslim wives (sorry, can't remember what it is this week).

Looking at someone and judging their qualifications by their colour is racist, end of.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think the problem is some people don't understand what racism is.

To be fair, in this day and age with the rise of the right it has been watered down, especially with posters like Hypo and their Muslim/Non-Muslim wives (sorry, can't remember what it is this week).

Looking at someone and judging their qualifications by their colour is racist, end of.

But who said that?

Edited 17 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

52 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It doesn't make negative assumptions about people based on their ethnic background, as Kirk did in his podcast.

He was saying that he was forced to make negative assumptions about someone based on their skin colour due to the racist hiring practices of DEI hiring. What he was saying was that he wanted DEI hiring to cease so that he didn't have to make assumptions about the competence of the employees and he could be confident that the black pilot got his job on merit.

Edited 17 hours ago by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

34 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I know, and I never claimed that's what he said. But what he did say was that he could look at a black pilot and believe that he/she might not actually be qualified and therefore hasn't passed the extremely rigorous testing process that all airline pilots must go through in order to obtain their licence.

That's a special kind of stupid.

I mean it's a throwaway line in a long conversation but obviously he as using it to criticise DEI hiring. I think you're just being overly pedantic to try and suggest he was being racist when it's clear what the intent is.

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

But who said that?

Charlie Kirk:

"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified."

– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

He could have said lesbian, he could have said disabled (both groups of people he has denigrated in the past). He decided to go for blacks this time.

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Charlie Kirk:

"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified."

– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

He could have said lesbian, he could have said disabled (both groups of people he has denigrated in the past). He decided to go for blacks this time.

He didn’t say that - you need to watch the video to see the context also. I don’t recall a video where he has denigrated lesbians or disabled people but if you have them happy to be wrong

Edited 17 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He was saying that he was forced to make negative assumptions about someone based on their skin colour due to the racist hiring practices of DEI hiring. What he was saying was that he wanted DEI hiring to cease so that he didn't have to make assumptions about the competence of the employees and he could be confident that the black pilot got his job on merit.

Yeah, of course he was 😂😂😂😂

And Nigel Farage's "Breaking Point poster wasn't meant to mimic the Nazi's photo. I'm sorry, but don't be so fucking stupid.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

He didn’t say that - you need to watch the video to see the context also. 

What did he say then?

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

What did he say then?

What he said in response to a question was United Airlines wanted to employ 50% women and people of colour (their description). He said that because of that policy it would mean that you wouldn’t necessarily get the best people for the job as you are prioritising someone’s profile instead of their competency . This would reduce standards for pilots in this scenario. He didn’t say they wouldn’t be qualified.  He said the quality would reduce, and therefore DEI profiling lowers standards and this is why DEI isn’t good, in his opinion.
 

He is also using pilots as an example only - the principle he is arguing is intended to apply to a range of roles and different groups of people

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

 

What he said in response to a question was United Airlines wanted to employ 50% women and people of colour (their description). He said that because of that policy it would mean that you wouldn’t necessarily get the best people for the job as you are prioritising someone’s profile instead of their competency . This would reduce standards for pilots in this scenario. He didn’t say they wouldn’t be qualified.  He said the quality would reduce, and therefore DEI profiling lowers standards and this is why DEI isn’t good, in his opinion.
 

He is also using pilots as an example only - the principle he is arguing is intended to apply to a range of roles and different groups of people

Literally, what did he say. Give me the quote.

Edited 17 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Charlie Kirk:

"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified."

– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

He could have said lesbian, he could have said disabled (both groups of people he has denigrated in the past). He decided to go for blacks this time.

Because he was discussing a specific DEI policy where United Airlines said they wanted 40% of their pilots to be people of colour or women. They relax standards in order to reach racial quotas so if he sees a black person he's going to hope that that policy is not in place and that that person is qualified.