Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Some of you apologists must be baffled by previous Islamic terror attacks prior to October 2023.

As baffled as you seem to be about the difference in targets since October 2023.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Ok so who is the opposing side to the perpetrators of the attack today?

I'm not making the side/side point. All I've said is that victims aren't necessarily on any side, and today's certainly weren't. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

As baffled as you seem to be about the difference in targets since October 2023.

Not baffled at all - I know why these cunts do what they do. They believe their god wants them to do it. 
Many seem to think that it is the action of Israel in Gaza.

Many of the people who side with Palestinians are absolutely vile hate-fuelled human beings

 

[whelk]

Many are not of course

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not making the side/side point. All I've said is that victims aren't necessarily on any side, and today's certainly weren't. 

Obviously I agree. The problem is that many are looking for a reason and of course they will never condone and are probably appalled. And then say ‘yeah but what about?’ ‘it doesn’t happen in a vacuum’ etc.

Islamic extremists delight in killing and have no remorse or regret whatsoever. They despise the infidels that give them society to function in

[egg]

Just now, whelk said:

Not baffled at all - I know why these cunts do what they do. They believe their god wants them to do it. 
Many seem to think that it is the action of Israel in Gaza.

Many of the people who side with Palestinians are absolutely vile hate-fuelled human beings

 

The origins of this is religion, then it became about land, and then horrendous circular attack/retaliation. It's wrong to suggest that it's all about religion, and that Israeli action in Gaza has not increased the risk of attacks against innocent Jewish people. 

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Not baffled at all - I know why these cunts do what they do. They believe their god wants them to do it. 
Many seem to think that it is the action of Israel in Gaza.

Many of the people who side with Palestinians are absolutely vile hate-fuelled human beings

 

I'm purely talking the profile of the victims. We all know why they do what they do, but it's more who those attacks are perpetrated on.

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Obviously I agree. The problem is that many are looking for a reason and of course they will never condone and are probably appalled. And then say ‘yeah but what about?’ ‘it doesn’t happen in a vacuum’ etc.

Islamic extremists delight in killing and have no remorse or regret whatsoever. They despise the infidels that give them society to function in

Do you think Israel’s actions in Gaza would have made it easier or harder to radicalise Islamic psychopaths?

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Obviously I agree. The problem is that many are looking for a reason and of course they will never condone and are probably appalled. And then say ‘yeah but what about?’ ‘it doesn’t happen in a vacuum’ etc.

Islamic extremists delight in killing and have no remorse or regret whatsoever. They despise the infidels that give them society to function in

The extension of people making points and asking questions to support their position, is that they often dampen contra points, often with criticism. Your comment that people who side with Palestinians are vile human beings is a case in point. 

The reality is that all extremists, and extreme regimes, delight in killing. That's not a "what about" comment, but rather an uncomfortable truth. 

I'm trying to avoid emotive language or rhetoric as what has happened today is bloody appalling so I'll resist expressing opinion about people who don't support the Palestinian plight. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

He didn’t give a shit about the hostages either.

Something you have in common with him. You said they were better off with Hamas. 

[iansums]

The father had a licence for 6 guns FFS, I thought Australia had strong gun laws, why would anyone need 6 guns?

[badgerx16]

If all the terrorists wanted to do was massacre a group of people in the name of their God, was it purely coincidence that they attacked a group of Jewish people ? Why not go further along Bondi and shoot a load of surfers ?

Their warped minds obviously contrived a link between what is happenening in Gaza and their desire for a quick route to Paradise.

Edited Sunday at 22:25 by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t see anyone apologists for terror attacks. I do see some people who understand that either side have been killing each other for years  and I see some people who think that one side is responsible for all of the atrocities and the other side is completely at liberty to do what they want in retaliation.

This is essentially softening or seeking to justify the attacks. This is frankly unbelievable. In modern times no other religion has individuals shooting innocent civilians in cold blood. Wake up you idiot. It’s people like you who discourage real debate about this issue.

I take it back, you are an extremist yourself. 

Edited Sunday at 23:15 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

My first visit on here today and the replies on here were oh so predictable.

Some of them are pretty disgusting 

[Sir Ralph]

10 hours ago, egg said:

The extension of people making points and asking questions to support their position, is that they often dampen contra points, often with criticism. Your comment that people who side with Palestinians are vile human beings is a case in point. 

The reality is that all extremists, and extreme regimes, delight in killing. That's not a "what about" comment, but rather an uncomfortable truth. 

I'm trying to avoid emotive language or rhetoric as what has happened today is bloody appalling so I'll resist expressing opinion about people who don't support the Palestinian plight. 

You’ll resist expressing an opinion but are highlighting the point anyway. So if you have an issue with today’s terrorist attack but haven’t commented on Palestine then your opinion has limited weight. 

Edited yesterday at 07:50 by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

 In modern times no other religion has individuals shooting innocent civilians in cold blood. 

I agree that religion rarely seems to be a motivating factor in the hundreds of civilian shootings that occur annually in the USA.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I agree that religion rarely seems to be a motivating factor in the hundreds of civilian shootings that occur annually in the USA.

No argument from me there. The overwhelming number of terror attacks like this one are committed in the name of one religion though. Everyone knows why that is. We will have this same circular conversation when the next Islamist extremist commits an act of terror -probably in a few weeks- and you'll have the same group of people blaming it on colonialism, the West and Israel. Those same people won't ever countenance the idea that the teachings are to blame and that many fundamentalist Islamic nutters really believe the stuff they are being taught and so hate non believers and especially Jews and want to wipe them out. 

Like I said let's all meet back on this thread in a few weeks time when another group of innocents are slaughtered by an Islamist and we will have the same people denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem. 

Edited yesterday at 00:11 by hypochondriac

[Farmer Saint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

No argument from me there. The overwhelming number of terror attacks like this one are committed in the name of one religion though. Everyone knows why that is. We will have this same circular conversation when the next Islamist extremist commits an act of terror -probably in a few weeks- and you'll have the same group of people blaming it on colonialism, the West and Israel. Those same people won't ever countenance the idea that the teachings are to blame and that many fundamentalist Islamic nutters really believe the stuff they are being taught and so hate non believers and especially Jews and want to wipe them out. 

Like I said let's all meet back on this thread in a few weeks time when another group of innocents are slaughtered by an Islamist and we will have the same people denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem. 

Who's denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem?

[Weston Super Saint]

33 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Who's denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem?

Soggy.  For him everything is because of Gaza and not the sick religious teachings.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Soggy.  For him everything is because of Gaza and not the sick religious teachings.

He's used "people" so that means there's more than one person who's apparently denying it.

[Sir Ralph]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

I agree that religion rarely seems to be a motivating factor in the hundreds of civilian shootings that occur annually in the USA.

The words I used were no other religion. The killings in the US you are referring to are not religiously motivated. I’m not sure what you would deflect on this.

Anyway it’s very sad. People just going about their daily lives pointlessly killed by fanatics who misguidedly think that God wants them to kill others.

Unfortunately there will be people in this country who won’t bat an eyelid about this because they have been indoctrinated against Jews, yet that same group call others facists and Nazis.

Edited yesterday at 08:22 by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Who's denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem?

Plenty of people deny that there's a consistent pattern of extremist Muslims committing the majority of terror attacks all over the world. It's a pattern that's been ongoing since 9/11 tbh.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Plenty of people deny that there's a consistent pattern of extremist Muslims committing the majority of terror attacks all over the world. It's a pattern that's been ongoing since 9/11 tbh.

Ok, who?

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

The words I used were no other religion. The killings in the US you are referring to are not religiously motivated. Anyway it’s very sad. People just going about their daily lives pointlessly killed by fanatics who misguidedly think that God wants them to kill others.

Unfortunately there will be people in this country who won’t bat an eyelid about this because they have been indoctrinated against Jews, yet that same group call others facists and Nazis.

Plenty of people will think they at least partially brought it on themselves because they are Jews.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Ok, who?

Ignoring all the people on social media and the real media, how many western leaders in response to all these attacks have highlighted the teachings and followers of extremist Islam as a problem or the problem that needs eliminating in order to reduce these attacks?

Where is the government anti extremist campaign in schools to tackle the extreme and backwards version of Islam that pervades certain parts of that society? Happy to create one to talk to men about respect for women though on the back of a fictional Netflix show.

Obviously the government have no desire to do anything like that because they don't want to highlight the extreme parts of the religion as a unique problem and a greater risk than others.

Edited yesterday at 08:22 by hypochondriac

[AlexLaw76]

It is rather strange how the 'West' seems to bend the knee to odd islamic ways of the world.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is rather strange how the 'West' seems to bend the knee to odd islamic ways of the world.

It is and rather disappointing. I thought the west would be a lot more strident about defending its values and a lot tougher on people who hate us and want to kill us. We should be using every means necessary to root out and remove these people who threaten us and who teach hate.

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

It is and rather disappointing. I thought the west would be a lot more strident about defending its values and a lot tougher on people who hate us and want to kill us. We should be using every means necessary to root out and remove these people who threaten us and who teach hate.

As has been said by I think Badger, this wasn't an attack on "us". It was a targeted attack on Jewish people. 

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Like I said let's all meet back on this thread in a few weeks time when another group of innocents are slaughtered by an Islamist and we will have the same people denying that a section of Islamist believers are the problem. 

Oh, ok, so when you said this you didn't mean people on this site then? Good to know.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh, ok, so when you said this you didn't mean people on this site then? Good to know.

All I can see is that a few people here have assumed that this was an attack in the name of religion, and others have assumed it's at least in part borne from the actions in Gaza against Palestinian Muslims. Whether it's more the former or the latter I doubt we'll ever know. 

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

All I can see is that a few people here have assumed that this was an attack in the name of religion, and others have assumed it's at least in part borne from the actions in Gaza against Palestinian Muslims. Whether it's more the former or the latter I doubt we'll ever know. 

I think he's just said something he can't justify and is now trying to deflect.

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think he's just said something he can't justify and is now trying to deflect.

The evidence for this is?

[hypochondriac]

41 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh, ok, so when you said this you didn't mean people on this site then? Good to know.

I never said people on here though I haven't posed the question whether everyone on here thinks that the teachings of extremist Islam are a big part of the reason behind these attacks.

[hypochondriac]

37 minutes ago, egg said:

All I can see is that a few people here have assumed that this was an attack in the name of religion, and others have assumed it's at least in part borne from the actions in Gaza against Palestinian Muslims. Whether it's more the former or the latter I doubt we'll ever know. 

But we know that attacks happen in the name of Islam all the time. Even if hypothetically this one is entirely motivated by Israel that doesn't change the very significant problem of extremist Islam motivating people to commit terror attacks.

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

But we know that attacks happen in the name of Islam all the time. Even if hypothetically this one is entirely motivated by Israel that doesn't change the very significant problem of extremist Islam motivating people to commit terror attacks.

That's your assumption. Bondi may have been in the name of religion, but I suspect it was warped retribution against any Jewish person who got in the way, albeit perpetrated by a Muslim. That doesn't make it in the name of Islam. 

I'm not interested in a long exchange on this, but it's worthy of note that in the Israel/Palestine issue, the indoctrination and wish for indiscriminate killing is very much a 2 way thing. People have convinced themselves (or been convinced) that it's one way. 

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I never said people on here though I haven't posed the question whether everyone on here thinks that the teachings of extremist Islam are a big part of the reason behind these attacks.

I would suggest re-wording your post then as it very much reads differently.

[hypochondriac]

21 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I would suggest re-wording your post then as it very much reads differently.

I would suggest asking for a clarification if you're confused rather than inadvertently interpreting a post in bad faith.

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, egg said:

As has been said by I think Badger, this wasn't an attack on "us". It was a targeted attack on Jewish people. 

Just a reminder (slightly worrying one) that Jewish people are part of our western society. Its worrying that you are playing semantics again.

Edited yesterday at 09:57 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

35 minutes ago, egg said:

That's your assumption. Bondi may have been in the name of religion, but I suspect it was warped retribution against any Jewish person who got in the way, albeit perpetrated by a Muslim. That doesn't make it in the name of Islam. 

I'm not interested in a long exchange on this, but it's worthy of note that in the Israel/Palestine issue, the indoctrination and wish for indiscriminate killing is very much a 2 way thing. People have convinced themselves (or been convinced) that it's one way. 

A bizarre response in the 1st para. This shows your absolute and complete lack of understanding on this issue.  Its probably best you dont talk about it anymore.

Edited yesterday at 09:54 by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

36 minutes ago, egg said:

That's your assumption. Bondi may have been in the name of religion, but I suspect it was warped retribution against any Jewish person who got in the way, albeit perpetrated by a Muslim. That doesn't make it in the name of Islam. 

I'm not interested in a long exchange on this, but it's worthy of note that in the Israel/Palestine issue, the indoctrination and wish for indiscriminate killing is very much a 2 way thing. People have convinced themselves (or been convinced) that it's one way. 

What's my assumption? There's no assumption involved in knowing that Islamic extremists are involved in loads of terror attacks because their fucked reading of Islam tells them to kill people. Are you saying that there aren't many examples in recent history of terror attacks committed in the name of Islam? 

What terror attacks have been committed in the west in the name of other major religions that are comparable to 9/11? London bombings? Manchester arena bombings? Bataclan? Charlie Hebdo? Christmas Market rammings? That's just off the top of my head, we know that if I looked it up I could find probably 100 more examples. Attacks of that type that threaten innocent people in the west is absolutely something that comes overwhelmingly from extremist Islam.

Edited yesterday at 09:55 by hypochondriac

[egg]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

A bizarre response in the 1st para. This shows your absolute lack of understanding on this issue. Its probably best you dont talk about it anymore.

I understand the issues fully. This is not a single issue issue. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What's my assumption? There's no assumption involved in knowing that Islamic extremists are involved in loads of terror attacks because their fucked reading of Islam tells them to kill people. Are you say that bg that there aren't many examples in recent history of terror attacks committed in the name of Islam? 

What terror attacks have been committed in the west in the name of other major religions that are comparable to 9/11? London bombings? Manchester arena bombings? Bataclan? Charlie Hebdo? Christmas Market rammings? That's just off the top of my head, we know that if I looked it up I could find probably 100 more examples. Attacks of that type that threaten innocent people in the west is absolutely something that comes overwhelmingly from extremist Islam.

The assumption is the motivation. There's overlapping issues. Sure, there's the extreme interpretation of Islam. There's also lived experiences. The motivation for retribution for the latter is not all about religion, it's also based on anger and a lack of hope amongst other factors. It's simply wrong to to assume that the behaviour of Muslim lunatics must be based on religious teaching and fundamentalism, and without outside factors being a contributing or primary factor. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

The assumption is the motivation. There's overlapping issues. Sure, there's the extreme interpretation of Islam. There's also lived experiences. The motivation for retribution for the latter is not all about religion, it's also based on anger and a lack of hope amongst other factors. It's simply wrong to to assume that the behaviour of Muslim lunatics must be based on religious teaching and fundamentalism, and without outside factors being a contributing or primary factor. 

I didn't say it's the only factor but there a reason why the overwhelming majority of these attacks originate from the same source. It's because we have extremist religious nutters spewing hatred and ideology that hates the West and who we are. Some of these people will consider themselves devout believers, some will have unfortunate personal circumstances that push them in that direction and some will use the religion as an excuse but the existence of the ideology and the continued promotion of it is in my view the primary factor and it's rarely called out explicitly by those with the power to do something about it.

Edited yesterday at 10:08 by hypochondriac

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

The assumption is the motivation. There's overlapping issues. Sure, there's the extreme interpretation of Islam. There's also lived experiences. The motivation for retribution for the latter is not all about religion, it's also based on anger and a lack of hope amongst other factors. It's simply wrong to to assume that the behaviour of Muslim lunatics must be based on religious teaching and fundamentalism, and without outside factors being a contributing or primary factor. 

Lets apply this weird logic....noting that the killers have been reported as having ISIS affiliation.

So people on a far right protest attacking people of colour innocently standing by, its not necessarily cause they are racist. That's an assumption right, there might be outside factors which contribute to them doing this.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:15 by Sir Ralph

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I didn't say it's the only factor but there a reason why the overwhelming majority of these attacks originate from the same source. It's because we have extremist religious nutters spewing hatred and ideology that hates the West and who we are. Some of these people will consider themselves devout believers, some will have unfortunate personal circumstances that push them in that direction and some will use the religion as an excuse but the existence of the ideology and the continued promotion of it is in my view the primary factor and it's rarely called out explicitly by those with the power to do something about it.

We'll agree to differ. For me, throwing the blame at religion is akin to putting fingers in ears to not listen.  The troubles had it's roots in religion, but that factor became entwined with all sorts of others. Nothing in the bible told loons from Derry to blow up hotels and shopping centres on the mainland. Sure, I appreciate that the disputes are vastly different, but the point is that extreme behaviour can come from extreme behaviour ahead of other influences. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Lets apply this weird logic....noting that the killers have been reported as having ISIS affiliation.

So people on a far right protest attacking people of colour innocently standing by, its not necessarily cause they are racist. That's an assumption right, there might be outside factors which contribute to them doing this.

 

 

You can fish all day poppet, I won't bite. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Lets apply this weird logic....noting that the killers have been reported as having ISIS affiliation.

So people on a far right protest attacking people of colour, its not necessarily cause they are racist. That's an assumption right, there might be outside factors which contribute to them doing this.

 

 

That's a good point. If some racist white guy kills a bunch of black people no one would have any issue with calling out the far right ideology that influenced him or any government initiative looking to deradicalise similar individuals. You wouldn't say something like "well these unrelated black people had moved into parts of the white guys country and committed crimes and raped some people so even though we aren't justifying his killings it's kind of the inevitable consequence of allowing these things to occur."

[Sir Ralph]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

You can fish all day poppet, I won't bite. 

You mean, I've pointed out how twisted and bizarre your logic is. Otherwise you would have a response. Basically, you are making a point that we cant ever understand the crimes that anyone ever commits 'cause we dont know the 100% that that was their full motivation'. What a load of utter BS.

Edited yesterday at 10:38 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

33 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I would suggest asking for a clarification if you're confused rather than inadvertently interpreting a post in bad faith.

And I asked you to, and you went off on some weird tangent instead of answering the question.

This is not the first time this has happened either.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

We'll agree to differ. For me, throwing the blame at religion is akin to putting fingers in ears to not listen.  The troubles had it's roots in religion, but that factor became entwined with all sorts of others. Nothing in the bible told loons from Derry to blow up hotels and shopping centres on the mainland. Sure, I appreciate that the disputes are vastly different, but the point is that extreme behaviour can come from extreme behaviour ahead of other influences. 

So then why is Islam a common factor in so many of these attacks?