Who sung OWTS first?

[USA SaintsFan]

My Tottenham supporting mate is claiming that it's OK for them to sing OWTS because they sung it first. I couldn't disprove him because I've only supported Saints since 2013. Does anyone know which club sung it first?

[Disco Stu]

Honestly, I'm not sure. We're going back at least 60 years here for both clubs. It has a stronger association with us and obviously we sing the original lyrics so our claim to it is pretty strong. What's more important is how well you sing it.

 

I like the slow version, it creates an almost cathedral like atmosphere that fits in well with the whole 'Saints' image but I definitely prefer the fast version which we've become pretty **** at. Once we move onto the higher tempo version, everyone claps at 200bpm and the song gets lost.

 

I'd also like to point out how embarrassing it is when we shout "we sing our own songs" given that we don't. Perhaps, "you got the words wrong" would be more suitable?

[Convict Colony]

Quite a bit of info and arguing in the comments section here -https://tui.fansnetwork.co.uk/news/17157/oh-when-the-saints-is-not-a-spurs-song-

[OldNick]

I would think the argument is naff. We were a team from a church background and our nickname being saints and a song coming from church services, would strongly suggest its ours.

You can imagine a crowd wanting to sing a tune to support a team called Saints and they decide oh lets sing 'onward christian soldier'

[OldNick]

Also their nickname is the Lilywhites and so how owuld that come to be a connection to OWTS.

[doddisalegend]

I would think the argument is naff. We were a team from a church background and our nickname being saints and a song coming from church services, would strongly suggest its ours.

You can imagine a crowd wanting to sing a tune to support a team called Saints and they decide oh lets sing 'onward christian soldier'

It's not an Anglican hymn though it has its roots in southern US gospel music. I doubt they where knocking it out, on a Sunday morning, in St Mary's church circa 1890 especially considering the first known use of the modern version was ( according to wiki) 1923.

 

I can't see it being sung by either team until the 30s at the earliest.

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Charlie Wayman]

Know for fact that Saints fans including my Dad were singing OWTS in the late 1940's.

[kwsaint]

Spurs song was Glory Glory Hallelujah in the sixties, although they did occasionally sing OWTS. But it wasn't their song at the time, just something that they sang sometimes. Much in the same way as lots of fans sang You Will Never Walk Alone in the sixties/seventies, although it was always Liverpool's song.

 

I think that the clue is that they have to change the words and we don't.

[eelpie]

My Tottenham supporting mate is claiming that it's OK for them to sing OWTS because they sung it first. I couldn't disprove him because I've only supported Saints since 2013. Does anyone know which club sung it first?

 

But they sing 'O when the Spurs come marching in'.

Not the same

 

The oldest recording of "Oh when the Saints come marching in' that I have had is by The John Lewis Marching Band. Also by Loius Armstrong. Sometime in the 1920's.

 

Does anyone know if Mt Miller visited New Orleans before going to Brazil?

Or anyone else from Southampton?

 

That would be the providence we need to find.

[eelpie]

But they sing 'O when the Spurs come marching in'.

Not the same

 

The oldest recording of "Oh when the Saints come marching in' that I have had is by The John Lewis Marching Band. Also by Loius Armstrong. Sometime in the 1920's.

 

Does anyone know if Mt Miller visited New Orleans before going to Brazil?

Or anyone else from Southampton?

 

That would be the providence we need to find.

 

How about playing the original New Orleans versions by Louis Armstrong at half time. That would be fantastic.

(Before Spurs do)

[Nordic Saint]

Spurs song was Glory Glory Hallelujah in the sixties, although they did occasionally sing OWTS. But it wasn't their song at the time, just something that they sang sometimes. Much in the same way as lots of fans sang You Will Never Walk Alone in the sixties/seventies, although it was always Liverpool's song.

 

I think that the clue is that they have to change the words and we don't.

 

Spurs fans were, in fact, the last fans to start singing any song. They considered singing ungentlemanly. I went to our first game there of the modern era, in 1966. Our fans completely filled the Park Lane End and 10,000 of us sang OWTS. From the Spurs fans there was absolutely no singing at all. I was also there when we played in 1967, which was the first year they had a singing section, and they sang the Battle Hymn of the Republic (Glory Glory Hallelujah), which was recognised as their song but never OWTS. The singing of OWTS by Spurs fans is quite a new thing.

 

It sounds like this new Spursmyth about it being their song is a bit like the Portsmyth about the mythical dock strike.

[Nordic Saint]

Incidentally, the Portsmyth about SCUM and the dock strike was started as a spoof article in a Pompey fanzine, called Frattonise, as recently as the 1990s. Now, it's become part of their mythical history. It sounds like the same thing is happening with OWTS and Spurs fans but it's even more recent as I don't think they were even singing it in the 1990s as their song, although fans of most clubs sang it occasionally by then. In the 2000s Spurs fans started their slow version and that then became their new song, replacing Glory, Glory Hallelujah.

[eelpie]

Incidentally, the Portsmyth about SCUM and the dock strike was started as a spoof article in a Pompey fanzine, called Frattonise, as recently as the 1990s. Now, it's become part of their mythical history. It sounds like the same thing is happening with OWTS and Spurs fans but it's even more recent as I don't think they were even singing it in the 1990s as their song, although fans of most clubs sang it occasionally by then. In the 2000s Spurs fans started their slow version and that then became their new song, replacing Glory, Glory Hallelujah.

 

But there has always been competitive rivalry between the two ports. I can remember as a nipper in the 5o's, my father, who was a local teacher, going on about it. Then intensifying when Portsmouth gained cross-channel passenger contracts at Southampton's expense. In contrast to when Poole also acquired cross-chanel passenger contracts at Southampton's expense . Poole/ Bournemouth don't attract the same bitter rivalry. There certainly were accusatory comments whenever either Port had a dock strike with accusations that the other was profiteering whether accurate or not.

[Nordic Saint]

But there has always been competitive rivalry between the two ports. I can remember as a nipper in the 5o's, my father, who was a local teacher, going on about it. Then intensifying when Portsmouth gained cross-channel passenger contracts at Southampton's expense. In contrast to when Poole also acquired cross-chanel passenger contracts at Southampton's expense . Poole/ Bournemouth don't attract the same bitter rivalry. There certainly were accusatory comments whenever either Port had a dock strike with accusations that the other was profiteering whether accurate or not.

 

Pompey fans didn't start calling Saints 'Scum' until the 1970s. I know as I was with Saints fans in the Fratton End when we beat them 5-2 in 1966, and the words scum and scummer were never uttered once by any of their fans. Millwall were the first fans to used the word scum as an insult for other fans in the 60s but most fans were using it in the 70s, including Saints. It had originally been used as slang in Borstals. Pompey fans were the first football fans, however, to add the -mer to scum. also in the 1970s. But, they didn't invent the word. If you consult the Oxford Dictionary, you'll find that the first written record of the word scummer was in 1585. It referred to one who scours the sea, a rover or a pirate. For many years it was a nickname for pirates or buccaneers.

[VectisSaint]

But they sing 'O when the Spurs come marching in'.

Not the same

 

The oldest recording of "Oh when the Saints come marching in' that I have had is by The John Lewis Marching Band. Also by Loius Armstrong. Sometime in the 1920's.

 

Does anyone know if Mt Miller visited New Orleans before going to Brazil?

Or anyone else from Southampton?

 

That would be the providence we need to find.

Miller went to Brazil in 1894. Nearly 30 years before O When The Saints is believed to have originated. Almost certain that it would have been the Louis Armstrong version recorded in 1938 which first brought it to attention in England. Seriously doubt any teams would have "sung" the song at a football match before the 1940s, it really only became a thing in the 1960s, or perhaps late 50s. Before that supporters just used to cheer and wave their football rattles and throw their flat caps in the air. Like others have mentioned Spurs used to sing Glory Glory,certainly when I started going in the mid 60s.

[benjii]

Joe.

[Nordic Saint]

Anyway, it's a bit sad that after all these years, our fans still haven't managed to learn more than one verse.

 

Oh, when the saints go marching in

Oh, when the saints go marching in

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the drums begin to bang

Oh, when the drums begin to bang

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the stars fall from the sky

Oh, when the stars fall from the sky

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the moon turns red with blood

Oh, when the moon turns red with blood

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

[CB Fry]

We should change it so most of the lyrics are about Paul Mitchell.

[VectisSaint]

Anyway, it's a bit sad that after all these years, our fans still haven't managed to learn more than one verse.

 

Oh, when the saints go marching in

Oh, when the saints go marching in

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the drums begin to bang

Oh, when the drums begin to bang

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the stars fall from the sky

Oh, when the stars fall from the sky

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

 

Oh, when the moon turns red with blood

Oh, when the moon turns red with blood

Oh Lord I want to be in that number

When the saints go marching in

Surely there's a verse that mentions Pompey, if not I don't see why we sing it at all.

[derry]

Spurs fans were, in fact, the last fans to start singing any song. They considered singing ungentlemanly. I went to our first game there of the modern era, in 1966. Our fans completely filled the Park Lane End and 10,000 of us sang OWTS. From the Spurs fans there was absolutely no singing at all. I was also there when we played in 1967, which was the first year they had a singing section, and they sang the Battle Hymn of the Republic (Glory Glory Hallelujah), which was recognised as their song but never OWTS. The singing of OWTS by Spurs fans is quite a new thing.

 

It sounds like this new Spursmyth about it being their song is a bit like the Portsmyth about the mythical dock strike.

 

I go with this. If I remember correctly going back over 60 years we were the only ones to sing the Saints go marching in. Days of rattles and 2-4-6-8 long gone.

[100%Red&White]

I go with this. If I remember correctly going back over 60 years we were the only ones to sing the Saints go marching in. Days of rattles and 2-4-6-8 long gone.

 

a blast from the past.

 

We used to march around the playground in the 60s singing

 

"2-4-6-8, who do we appreciate?

S-O-U-T-H-A-M-P-T-ON!"

 

Never impressed the girls, don't know why...