Is Jan's resignation the tip of an ice berg

[BadgerBadger]

will we be seeing a sea change at St Mary's over the next week - I hope so.

 

Or will it be another protracted decline in the current set up full of spin and cloak and dagger

[Pilchards]

Something does not add up here.

 

You don't quit after saying you've had a meeting with Mr Lowe, players etc and then suddenly quit.

The comments from Wotte are edgy too which does not suggest he is going to be doing it for long either.

My guess Is someone else is coming in to take over as manager and I just can't seeing it being a takeover either because JP won't know about those such things would he?

 

A very fishy situation which is having it's strings pulled by the same muppet that's even going on a 2nd holiday during the Swansea game.

 

Strange or what?

[Weston Saint]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

[saint1977]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

A proper boycott of the Swansea game might force Mike Wilde's hand though Ron. Seriously, Wilde is going to kill our club very shortly, have you read the thread about Lowe's "guru"? If I was some of these young player's parents, I'd be on the phone to their agents ensuring they got a move straight away, even if it meant dropping a division - SFC are going to anyway. The club's board is as rotten as Robert Chase was at Norwich and Bill Archer and David Bellotti were at Brighton and I will no longer subsidise such a slide.

[gordonToo]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

 

This interpretation doesn't quite fit with Jan's vow on Monday to continue fighting which implies he had received the full support of management and players. If he had received such support, why then did he change his mind just days later?

 

I'd rather focus on Lowe's response to a direct question after Monday's meeting that "Jan hadn't been sacked ...... yet" which suggests the decision had already been taken but the formal announcement delayed for reasons as yet unknown. Maybe Wilde's (non)-availability was the key factor?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

I don't think your version is right Ron, JP was pushed that I know.

I also think there will be developments next week.

I'm off to the bookies

[John B]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

Who knows

 

Other people think otherwise

[John B]

I don't think your version is right Ron, JP was pushed that I know.

I also think there will be developments next week.

I'm off to the bookies

 

Interesting

[SaintRichmond]

will we be seeing a sea change at St Mary's over the next week - I hope so.

 

Or will it be another protracted decline in the current set up full of spin and cloak and dagger

 

 

Anybody who honestly thinks that Poortvliet "resigned" is deluding themselves

 

Lowe needed some Scapegoats ......... Jan is only the First

 

Remember ........ Lowe can never ever be at fault for anything ........ it is always someone elses

[LaptopSaint]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

It's still a thin line though isn't it? Forest and Donny at home did for Jan. If we'd have won both we'd still have a very poor home record (as opposed to a disastrous one) but we'd have been in 17th place 5 points clear of relegation. Not safe, but doing OK.

If that had happened I reckon he'd still be in a job.

[Weston Saint]

I don't think your version is right Ron, JP was pushed that I know.

I also think there will be developments next week.

I'm off to the bookies

 

I wrote that before a phone call and an email. Nothing further I can add at this stage. I am awaiting further info with interest.

[cambsaint]

I find it strange that it is assumed that Lowe is all powerful.

Look at the shareholdings, Wilde's share is 16%; the Lowe cabal if it held firm about 25%, and Crouch Corbett et al nearly 20%.

Clearly Wilde holds absolute power as he can move his support wherever, ie Lowe, Crouch or no overall control.

Personally I am pleased about this as I think Wilde is still probably a fan at heart, and in the last analysis may act against Lowe if he can settle his differences with Crouch.

It is also very unusual for critical decisions to be taken when the boss is away.

Obviously Wilde loses his offshore status if he is in the UK for more than 90 days a year, so has to ration his attendances with his other business interests.

Is he flexing his muscles, will next week bring welcome news.

I don't know, but it based on my experience major decisions are rarely if ever made when the boss is away.

Without a Saturday game, the JP announcement could have very easily been made on Monday even if the actual decisions had been made on Friday.

I have no inside knowledge, I just observe at a distance, but I expect it all to come clear next week.

[BadgerBadger]

I don't think your version is right Ron, JP was pushed that I know.

I also think there will be developments next week.

I'm off to the bookies

 

 

I wonder whether it'll be Lowe publicly being the face of the developments or we'll see more of Mr Wilde!

[saint1977]

It's still a thin line though isn't it? Forest and Donny at home did for Jan. If we'd have won both we'd still have a very poor home record (as opposed to a disastrous one) but we'd have been in 17th place 5 points clear of relegation. Not safe, but doing OK.

If that had happened I reckon he'd still be in a job.

 

As ever with SFC, what happens on the pitch is only ever - well, the tip of the iceberg.

[Weston Super Saint]

Interesting

 

I doubt it, his 'sauces' have never been right yet

[Saint Fan CaM]

I wonder whether it'll be Lowe publicly being the face of the developments or we'll see more of Mr Wilde!

 

I think Wilde was the face regarding JP's 'resignation' because (a) Lowe wanted to distance himself from another failed appointment and (b) Wilde is supposedly the football club Chairman and as such JP would report to him?

 

Whichever way you cut-it, I think the action Duncan discusses for next week has happened already - i.e. Wotte's appointment as Head Coach. I don't think we have any reason to get excited. :mad:

Edited 24 January, 2009 by Saint Fan CaM
typo

[Weston Super Saint]

I wrote that before a phone call and an email. Nothing further I can add at this stage. I am awaiting further info with interest.

 

Do you think you secret masons with all your wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean guvnor bullsh11t could either put up or shut up?

 

How many times do you guys post this crap about phone calls and emails and the like, and how many times have you actually given the board and its members some actual information that has turned out to be true. Answer : NEVER.

 

Even Wild[e] speculation by Dalek and Manji is more interesting...

[Weston Saint]

Do you think you secret masons with all your wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean guvnor bullsh11t could either put up or shut up?

 

How many times do you guys post this crap about phone calls and emails and the like, and how many times have you actually given the board and its members some actual information that has turned out to be true. Answer : NEVER.

 

Even Wild[e] speculation by Dalek and Manji is more interesting...

I am not going to rise to the bait. You think what you like.

[Weston Super Saint]

I am not going to rise to the bait. You think what you like.

 

It's not a case of thinking, it's a FACT, you and Duncan with all your SOS and wink wink stuff, between you have never posted anything FACTUAL that has come true.

 

Come to think of it, I can't remember you guys even posting any rumours, just lots of winks and nudges and something might happen sometime....

[John B]

It's not a case of thinking, it's a FACT, you and Duncan with all your SOS and wink wink stuff, between you have never posted anything FACTUAL that has come true.

 

Come to think of it, I can't remember you guys even posting any rumours, just lots of winks and nudges and something might happen sometime....

 

I dont think many posts are factual except the ones copies from the Echo or OS sites.

 

Still not seen Daily Baird or Harewood yet

 

Still notice Surman and Lallana here

[saint1977]

It's not a case of thinking, it's a FACT, you and Duncan with all your SOS and wink wink stuff, between you have never posted anything FACTUAL that has come true.

 

Come to think of it, I can't remember you guys even posting any rumours, just lots of winks and nudges and something might happen sometime....

 

To be fair to Ron and Duncan, their info is likely to be from club employees. Given the bullying and appalling management culture of single-cell morons we've employed in the top roles since 2004, any hint that they are the source of a media story probably means not only dismissal - in spite of whistleblowing laws - but litigation as well. The current regime at SFC is not formed from pleasant human beings so you can understand why Duncan and Ron's sources have to be careful.

 

No offence meant WSS, I like you as a poster but do keep posting what you can find out Duncan and Ron as it's the only way we find anything out when the OS is full of bull.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It's not a case of thinking, it's a FACT, you and Duncan with all your SOS and wink wink stuff, between you have never posted anything FACTUAL that has come true.

 

Come to think of it, I can't remember you guys even posting any rumours, just lots of winks and nudges and something might happen sometime....

 

Why does that hurt you?

 

These guys have something to offer a forum, whereas those that criticise them for their posts do little to move the debate along. It matters not a jot whether you believe or not...if you don't, why not just say so and be done?

[Weston Super Saint]

To be fair to Ron and Duncan, their info is likely to be from club employees. Given the bullying and appalling management culture of single-cell morons we've employed in the top roles since 2004, any hint that they are the source of a media story probably means not only dismissal - in spite of whistleblowing laws - but litigation as well. The current regime at SFC is not formed from pleasant human beings so you can understand why Duncan and Ron's sources have to be careful.

No offence meant WSS, I like you as a poster but do keep posting what you can find out Duncan and Ron as it's the only way we find anything out when the OS is full of bull.

 

I'm sure you're absolutely spot on there.

 

I was trying to point out that if Ron and Duncan can't say anything that their sources have given them - and frankly I don't buy that, because if their sources didn't want the info to get out in the public domain, they would have remained silent and not said anything in the first place - then they shouldn't come on here hinting about phone calls and emails and really important info they have that us plebians shouldn't be trusted to be told.

 

There are enough people concerned with the club who have a God complex without them - and others as it isn't an exclusive club - adding to the list....

[SaintRobbie]

will we be seeing a sea change at St Mary's over the next week - I hope so.

 

Or will it be another protracted decline in the current set up full of spin and cloak and dagger

 

It HAS to be so Badger... otherwise this Club will eventually become a feeder club in League 2, owned by Rupert Lowe.

 

He HAS to be removed for good now. HAS to be.

[Weston Super Saint]

Why does that hurt you?

 

These guys have something to offer a forum, whereas those that criticise them for their posts do little to move the debate along. It matters not a jot whether you believe or not...if you don't, why not just say so and be done?

 

I will happily accept that if you can point out what it is, just saying they've received emails and phone calls that they can't possible tell us about doesn't contribute a great deal really does it?

[Saint Fan CaM]

I will happily accept that if you can point out what it is, just saying they've received emails and phone calls that they can't possible tell us about doesn't contribute a great deal really does it?

 

Can see where you're coming from, but IMO I take them with a pinch of salt frankly. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve - so I just take the info as being possible and leave it at that. If I have any reason to doubt it, I will say so or just not comment atall. Makes for less strife.

[saint1977]

I'm sure you're absolutely spot on there.

 

I was trying to point out that if Ron and Duncan can't say anything that their sources have given them - and frankly I don't buy that, because if their sources didn't want the info to get out in the public domain, they would have remained silent and not said anything in the first place - then they shouldn't come on here hinting about phone calls and emails and really important info they have that us plebians shouldn't be trusted to be told.

 

There are enough people concerned with the club who have a God complex without them - and others as it isn't an exclusive club - adding to the list....

 

Duncan has posted some quite interesting and actually fairly revealing stuff on some of the other threads - JP not having done a team talk for some time for example.

 

I do agree that certain very senior employees and shareholders who are not as vulnerable as the bulk SFC employees should be put more direct information in what they are saying, as long as it is not libellous, given the fact the club looks not far away from a VA at best and folding altogether at worst with a board that hasn't got a clue what it's doing.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I will happily accept that if you can point out what it is, just saying they've received emails and phone calls that they can't possible tell us about doesn't contribute a great deal really does it?

 

I think you will find I posted quite a bit about Wilde today that was factual.

 

I appreciate your scepticism and there is loads I want to say but I can't because I have promised confidentiality. That is frustrating for me too you know. Sometimes I try to be subtle so as not to reveal my source but it is hard. I spent 2 hours with someone yesterday and learnt some shocking things, but I just can't post because the person who told me would be known to who the story involved while I would probably be litigated against. It will all come out as soon as I am in a position to do so.

 

The bit about LC being at SMS yesterday was leaked to me - when I had it confirmed I asked if I could make that knowledge public. Answer YES so on it went.

 

Significant information? - I dunno, I was told so but if not at least you know something that had I not posted you wouldn't have. Plus you can make your own deductions. I never indulge in that wink wink thing that LLS and St David specialised in.

 

We live in secretive times and with the club lying, spinning and misleading the fans so much we need to use this forum as sensibly as we can. One thing I know is this forum is widely read by all sides. Apparently, in his office Jim Hone had nothing apart from a chair, a desk and a laptop permantly logged onto the Saints forum. Unfortunately WSS I am not anonymous so I have to be a little careful.

Edited 24 January, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella
appalling spelling

[SaintRichmond]

I find it strange that it is assumed that Lowe is all powerful.

.

 

 

Why do you think it strange ???

 

Lowe DOES rule the roost

Lowe DOES control each and every "Manager" he has appointed

Lowe DID get rid of Nigel Pearson for that very reason, Pearson was not a YES man (Good move that eh ??? )

Lowe DOES interfere with Team selection ( example:- his insistance that McGoldrick is a CENTRE FORWARD )

Lowe DOES control the hiring and firing

Lowe DOES, and has, arranged all the SELLING OFF of all players that could have had us Mid CCC by now

 

Lowe reeks of arrogant Power.

 

He is guiding OUR Club into the Abyss .... Question is, how do you stop him

 

Perhaps Wilde could meet up with some Saints Fans in the University Bar to discuss ???

[Gemmel]

JP went home for the weekend following the Doncaster defeat and no doubt discussed it all with his family. That was followed by a meeting with Lowe where I suspect certain things were said by all including the players and again he would have food for thought.

 

His reflection this week along with the media and fans reaction probably led him to believe that his time was up and he took the honourable step to resign.

 

He may be the only one to come out of this sorry state of affairs with any credit.

 

To answer the question, no I do not see many more changes in the next month or so. Lowe will continue with his plan to stabilize finances assuming the bank give him time.

 

You don't really believe that he resigned do you ?......straight after a board meeting .....when he was managing the team in a friendly

 

I'm sick of all the fighting, bickering and blaming, but another batch of club money has gone out the door for another pay off, following another poor appointment

[saint1977]

I think you will find I posted quite a bit about Wilde today that was factual.

 

I appreciate your scepticism and there is loads I want to say but I can't because I have promised confidentiality. That is frustrating for me too you know. Sometimes I try to be subtle so as not to reveal my source but it is hard. I spent 2 hours with someone yesterday and learnt some shocking things, but I just can't post because the person who told me would be known to who the story involved while I would probably be litigated against. It will all come out as soon as I am in a position to do so.

 

The bit about LC being at SMS yesterday was leaked to me - when I had it confirmed I asked if I could make that knowledge public. Answer YES so on it went.

 

Significant information? - I dunno, I was told so but if not at least you know something that had I not posted you wouldn't have. Plus you can make your own deductions. I never indulge in that wink wink thing that LLS and St David specialised in.

 

We live in secretive times and with the club lying, spinning and misleading the fans so much we need to use this forum as sensibly as we can. One thing I know is this forum is widely read by all sides. Apparently, in his office Jim Hone had nothing apart from a chair, a desk and a laptop permantly logged onto the Saints forum. Unfortunately WSS I am not anonymous so I have to be a little careful.

 

Shows us the club DO read what goes on here. No wonder we get these odd posters re-appearing now that we haven't seen since the end of S4E.

[Weston Super Saint]

I spent 2 hours with someone yesterday and learnt some shocking things, but I just can't post because the person who told me would be known to who the story involved while I would probably be litigated against.

 

Only if it isn't true

 

In a free world on a fans forum, you ARE allowed to post the truth.

 

I understand you don't want to lose your sources, but on the other hand you have to question their motives when they tell you stuff in secret....

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Only if it isn't true

 

In a free world on a fans forum, you ARE allowed to post the truth.

 

I understand you don't want to lose your sources, but on the other hand you have to question their motives when they tell you stuff in secret....

 

 

See your point but that doesn't mean you can't use the PM and word of mouth method. Plus you hope people read between the lines.

[sotonist]

Only if it isn't true

Or even if it is true, if the person in question is under NDA.

[dubai_phil]

Putting my analyst hat on again for moment.

 

I HATE management books but one line in one by Stephen Covey has served me very well in life = "Seek first to Understand"

 

I've posted that we have commented that Lowe (and the board) should stay away from the players, and also that Monday was not the time for any "knee jerk" reactions

 

I also understand the forum's conviction that Lowe has no brains whatsoever and appears to have the mental age of a 3 year old and their temper tantrums. But in a more "WTF is happening world"...

 

> Something did not seem right on the pitch against Doncaster

> There were comments in "The Meeting" thread that suggested TWO meetings.

>There seems some unrest with the Wotton incident then the Hockaday incident

 

Could it possibly have been that the FIRST session at Staplewood Lowe et al went to find out what was really going on? talking to the whole football side? and maybe (as a real "manager of people" would do) having sessions with the individual stakeholders players & management...

 

I know it is a leap of faith but it just seems that AFTER the morning meeting JP simply re-iterated to the waiting Echo reporter what he would have said to the Board. Sort of Yes Bosh, working harder bosh. no problems here bosh...

 

The Board then retire to SMS to discuss what they have learned. Then they discover the truth.

 

We simply don't know. Which is always the problem