Footballs Financial shame

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

And nothing to do with what this is about but hey axes to grind and all that.

Taxes to grind.

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Taxes to grind.

Fixated 

[egg]

23 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Taxes to grind.

Please give it a rest Whitey. This is about some footballers being stitched up by advisers who were negligent at best, and dishonest at worst. It's not about your personal objection to people (I'm guessing you mostly) having to pay tax. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Please give it a rest Whitey. This is about some footballers being stitched up by advisers who were negligent at best, and dishonest at worst. It's not about your personal objection to people (I'm guessing you mostly) having to pay tax. 

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

[egg]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

This thread, until you turned it political, was about wealthy footballers getting tucked up by shysters. There was empathy from most posters, me included. You though, have done nothing but whine about tax being daylight robbery etc. Not a word of empathy towards the footballers impacted by it. Not one. 

[verlaine1979]

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

[ChrisPY]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

If the speed limit outside schools was 40 instead of 20, there’d be less incentive to speed outside them.

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

That's one way of looking at it. It doesn't actually say if they were trying to avoid tax nor not, but it does show a lot of the aggressive and ruthless tactics of HMRC which are shameful. I'm not really sure how these things work with regard to tax dodges etc but what it does show is they trusted a group of people that befriended them and were absolutely ripped off by some scumbags. 

[Toadhall Saint]

8 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

Have you watched it? They were not trying to avoid paying tax. They were fraudulently misinformed which has now resulted in HMRC coming after them. City of London police have it on record that they are victims of fraud. The so called advisors even forged their signatures.

[VectisSaint]

9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

I think you are misrepresenting these ex-players. Yes they were quite wealthy in their playing days, but I don't think there is any suggestion that they set out to avoid paying tax. Like most people with capital to spare and the thought of a long retirement ahead they looked to secure their futures, and the way to do this is to invest. Nothing wrong with that, at the time investing in property and in these cases film-making were seen as good ways to grow your investment over the medium and long-term. The problem is that they were mostly together at the same club(s) and sought advice initially from someone they trusted and looked up to (namely their football manager) who it seems was in cahoots with some "shady" business people (financial advisors) who it appears fraudulently invested their money in some extremely dodgy schemes whuich ultimately cost the players rather large fortunes. Not saying the players were all entirely innocent and could perhaps have done more to protect themselves but it is very easy to go along with things that all your mates are doing and that is being promoted by the person you probably trust most professionally, namely your manager, especially when that manager is someone of the stature of Howard Wilkinson. 

[Whitey Grandad]

12 hours ago, egg said:

This thread, until you turned it political, was about wealthy footballers getting tucked up by shysters. There was empathy from most posters, me included. You though, have done nothing but whine about tax being daylight robbery etc. Not a word of empathy towards the footballers impacted by it. Not one. 

Political?

Not me.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Political?

Not me.

Tax policy is normally set by governments mate. Politics. 

I'll only respond again to you if you finally taking an interest in the defrauded footballers.

If you want to discuss tax policy, start a thread in the lounge, and we can chat away over there, you know, in the right place for it. 

[Gloucester Saint]

On 04/09/2025 at 08:04, Osvaldorama said:

Plenty of well performing countries have way lower taxes than the UK. 

 

The idea that we can’t reduce taxes by a large amount and still have a better performing country is a nonsense. The government wastes billions and billions. 

Government spending is out of control, and they blame wealthy people instead of fixing it. 

Names? And don’t say America, try going to states like Georgia, Louisiana and Alabama and see the state of their infrastructure. It isn’t like the IEA says it is. Moreover, look at the mortality rates between GOP states and Dem states during the height of Covid. Far more likely to avoid death and lifelong illness in the blue states than the red ones.

Anyway, your argument that UK spending is out control is comparatively disproved, taxes haven’t risen sharply since 2021 and Oz, Canada etc have smaller and younger populations than ours. Furlough also didn’t grow on magic money tree, firms were happy to accept including mine so we have to pay it back over many years hence high public debt in the west https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally

In the good old days of the 50s, 60s and early 70s that Brexiteers claim were better and harp on about, UK taxes were miles higher than now. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, VectisSaint said:Not saying the players were all entirely innocent and could perhaps have done more to protect themselves but it is very easy to go along with things that all your mates are doing and that is being promoted by the person you probably trust most professionally, namely your manager, especially when that manager is someone of the stature of Howard Wilkinson. 

Most sensible comment on this whole thread, and that manager then becomes Head of the LMA. Didn’t he give the firm a glowing testimonial as recently as 2023?

[Toadhall Saint]

5 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Most sensible comment on this whole thread, and that manager then becomes Head of the LMA. Didn’t he give the firm a glowing testimonial as recently as 2023?

Strangely enough - he hasn’t commented and has stepped down from his role at the LMA.

[east-stand-nic]

On 04/09/2025 at 19:25, tdmickey3 said:

Childish

Where as your constant attempt to be funny with memes (which always fail and get no laughs) is not at all childish is it. Once again with consummate ease, I catch you out with childish double standards. You are so easy.

[tdmickey3]

7 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Where as your constant attempt to be funny with memes (which always fail and get no laughs) is not at all childish is it. Once again with consummate ease, I catch you out with childish double standards. You are so easy.

Must be time for you to be restrained again…

Just to be clear as you are very dense, the memes I post about are not meant to be funny because people shouldn’t laugh at the truth.

TBH I shouldn’t mock the stupid but it’s difficult not to because of its abundance available from you

Edited September 6 by tdmickey3

[east-stand-nic]

13 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Must be time for you to be restrained again…

Just to be clear as you are very dense, the memes I post about are not meant to be funny because people shouldn’t laugh at the truth.

TBH I shouldn’t mock the stupid but it’s difficult not to because of its abundance available from you

But why is it childish when others do it, but OK when you do it like 3 times per day? Aww. I know you have been done and are getting a bit upset, so best I back off before you lose another keyboard. Diddums.

[tdmickey3]

2 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

But why is it childish when others do it, but OK when you do it like 3 times per day? Aww. I know you have been done and are getting a bit upset, so best I back off before you lose another keyboard. Diddums.

Calm down love, I won’t mock you anymore as long as you promise to not be so spectacularly stupid, big ask I know but give it a try sweetheart 

[east-stand-nic]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Calm down love, I won’t mock you anymore as long as you promise to not be so spectacularly stupid, big ask I know but give it a try sweetheart 

Yep, I have got to you, no question about that. So, why not just stop the silly childish double standards thing and be a man? Then you would not get smashed about so easily. 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

Yep, I have got to you, no question about that. So, why not just stop the silly childish double standards thing and be a man? Then you would not get smashed about so easily. 

Your level of delusion is staggering but hilariously funny 

[Osvaldorama]

On 05/09/2025 at 12:50, Gloucester Saint said:

Names? And don’t say America, try going to states like Georgia, Louisiana and Alabama and see the state of their infrastructure. It isn’t like the IEA says it is. Moreover, look at the mortality rates between GOP states and Dem states during the height of Covid. Far more likely to avoid death and lifelong illness in the blue states than the red ones.

Anyway, your argument that UK spending is out control is comparatively disproved, taxes haven’t risen sharply since 2021 and Oz, Canada etc have smaller and younger populations than ours. Furlough also didn’t grow on magic money tree, firms were happy to accept including mine so we have to pay it back over many years hence high public debt in the west https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally

In the good old days of the 50s, 60s and early 70s that Brexiteers claim were better and harp on about, UK taxes were miles higher than now. 

I can tell from this post that you have zero clue about geopolitics, finance or how economies actually work. 
 

You're an absolute prime example of why democracy is failing. 
 

Zero knowledge. Everyone voting to steal as much from productive people as possible. 

[CB Fry]

5 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I can tell from this post that you have zero clue about geopolitics, finance or how economies actually work. 
 

You're an absolute prime example of why democracy is failing. 
 

Zero knowledge. Everyone voting to steal as much from productive people as possible. 

I agree, the huge volume of cash from UK tax payers to social care and pensions (benefits) for old people is absolutely out of control.

Of course, the Reform people never talk about that because that parasite generation forms the vast majority of their core voter base.

But if you want to talk about non productive people hoovering up state spending then you could definitely start there. 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I can tell from this post that you have zero clue about geopolitics, finance or how economies actually work. 
 

You're an absolute prime example of why democracy is failing. 
 

Zero knowledge. Everyone voting to steal as much from productive people as possible. 

Third of my degree was economics from a top UK University so that’s a third more than you then and handle six figure operational budgets at work and brought in tens of millions of income for the last decade bar the lockdowns. Postgrad in a relevant area too. Had my own business for years before that.

So yeah, I know a lot more about this topic than you guessed at. Some people will have a different opinion, which is fine. It’s called a democracy….but this passed you by. Many posters on here do have different politics and views but the difference is they can debate them in a civilised way with some manners.

Even Chat GPT is more articulate than this. Let’s hope you never need A&E or an ambulance so those nurses and doctors stealing a living have to waste time treating you. 

Don’t bother responding directly, I won’t see it, you’ve joined another abusive poster called Guided Missile on ignore. I hope you are both happy together. If I wanted to read this type of post, there’s plenty of them on the Lounge, but I come on the main board for SFC and football, not to see the lunatic rants of a poundshop Patrick Minford (you might need to look up who he is).

Edited Monday at 06:00 by Gloucester Saint

[OldNick]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I agree, the huge volume of cash from UK tax payers to social care and pensions (benefits) for old people is absolutely out of control.

Of course, the Reform people never talk about that because that parasite generation forms the vast majority of their core voter base.

But if you want to talk about non productive people hoovering up state spending then you could definitely start there. 

Is this a parody, as I may be missing something here? Those old age pensioners who are parasites in the system now IYO, were working to pay for your education and all the other services whilst you were growing up and wet behind the ears. Providing taxes so that you could get your degrees and comfy state copper bottomed pension. They paid taxes in their working lives to get in a position to now deserve help and ther rightfully earned pension. When I first started working at 16 ( I didnt go to Uni or further education, you wont be surprised to know) we then paid National Insurance and Pension contributions, in time the gov conveniently dropped the wording Pension contribution. We paid our tax in knowledge that woman/wives would get the state pension at 55 ( ithink thats correct), in the decades that followed the goal posts were moved so that now it is 66 to get a pension soon to be 67.

I doubt I will be here to see you whining about the state pension start being 70 -75 when you reach the pension age, you may then be thinking that you have the right to a pension, and may not then think that you are one of those parasites. 

[OldNick]

On 05/09/2025 at 12:50, Gloucester Saint said:

 

In the good old days of the 50s, 60s and early 70s that Brexiteers claim were better and harp on about, UK taxes were miles higher than now. 

I dont believe that is correct, it was high under Labour in the 70's. I was a remainer and wouldnt vote reform,, but I do feel the days were better in the 70's and 80' only  because I was young and didnt have the responsibilities I do have now. 

[steve green]

16 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I dont believe that is correct, it was high under Labour in the 70's. I was a remainer and wouldnt vote reform,, but I do feel the days were better in the 70's and 80' only  because I was young and didnt have the responsibilities I do have now. 

Basic rate was around 38-40% at the start of the 70s. It didn't dip below 30% until 1986. Finally below 25% in 1995.

I think people also forget inflation over those decades fluctuated at silly levels compared to what we have experienced in the last 20yrs.

A double whammy for many.

[SW5 SAINT]

52 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Is this a parody, as I may be missing something here? Those old age pensioners who are parasites in the system now IYO, were working to pay for your education and all the other services whilst you were growing up and wet behind the ears. Providing taxes so that you could get your degrees and comfy state copper bottomed pension. They paid taxes in their working lives to get in a position to now deserve help and ther rightfully earned pension. When I first started working at 16 ( I didnt go to Uni or further education, you wont be surprised to know) we then paid National Insurance and Pension contributions, in time the gov conveniently dropped the wording Pension contribution. We paid our tax in knowledge that woman/wives would get the state pension at 55 ( ithink thats correct), in the decades that followed the goal posts were moved so that now it is 66 to get a pension soon to be 67.

I doubt I will be here to see you whining about the state pension start being 70 -75 when you reach the pension age, you may then be thinking that you have the right to a pension, and may not then think that you are one of those parasites. 

Excellent post…..

 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

I dont believe that is correct, it was high under Labour in the 70's. I was a remainer and wouldnt vote reform,, but I do feel the days were better in the 70's and 80' only  because I was young and didnt have the responsibilities I do have now. 

@steve green excellent response covers it and he is also right around inflation and interest rates which I can remember hitting double digits including early 1990s. I prefer the music and football from the 1970s and 80s, you lot have actually seen us win a major trophy in 1976. I enjoyed the JPT but not the same….

Major and Blair kept on with lower income (direct tax) levels but VAT had already doubled in 1979. 

Infamous thing was top rate of tax in 1970s 83% off earned and 98% on unearned but there are caveats even within that in this very interesting article https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/05/08/tax-rich-1970s-loopholes/#:~:text=People associate the 1970s with,investment income) was 98%.&text=83% income tax plus 15% investment income surcharge.

[East Kent Saint]

In my day the Govt set the mortgage lending rate . It was 12% at the time we were buying our first house and Building Societies would not lend you money unless you had been a regular saver with them . We had to get a low cost endowment policy flogged by the Estate Agent. 

Fortunately in a time of high inflation we had a Ed Heath conservative govt who introduced threshold payments to compensate for inflation to my salary .So we had 36% pay rises for a while 😄 Our monthly mortgage payments after a year or so of this became affordable! Then Heath got the boot .

We had available such benefits such as earning related unemployment benefit,  tax relief on mortgage payments (yes really) Proper company pensions where you got 50% of your final salary and your widow got 50% of that (66% now)

Then we got Thatcher who reduced income tax to great fanfare but massively increased indirect taxes such as VAT which benefited the rich and meant the poor paid a higher percentage of tax ! Then the dreaded poll tax aimed at at poor people where labour voters stayed off the register to vote to avoid it and rich people had different members of the family as residents in their various houses so only paid one poll tax per house rather than four for 2 parents and 2 over 18 children living in a council house.

You can easily trace all of our financial woes to the loss of empire and massive debt after WW2 which allowed the USA to boot us out of the middle east oil bonanza etc. Lately you can add brexit for trading and inflation woes plus immigration to the holy grail of UK which can no.longer send them back to the first safe European country etc 

 

 

[LiberalCommunist]

Football. Shame. Financial. 

 

Nice to see Man City got thoroughly punished today. That'll teach them. 

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, steve green said:

Basic rate was around 38-40% at the start of the 70s. It didn't dip below 30% until 1986. Finally below 25% in 1995.

I think people also forget inflation over those decades fluctuated at silly levels compared to what we have experienced in the last 20yrs.

A double whammy for many.

The current Basic Rate of 20% is the lowest it has been since the War. It was lowered to 20% under the Labour Government of Gordon Brown, and has remained at that level ever since.