Footballs Financial shame

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

And nothing to do with what this is about but hey axes to grind and all that.

Taxes to grind.

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Taxes to grind.

Fixated 

[egg]

23 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Taxes to grind.

Please give it a rest Whitey. This is about some footballers being stitched up by advisers who were negligent at best, and dishonest at worst. It's not about your personal objection to people (I'm guessing you mostly) having to pay tax. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Please give it a rest Whitey. This is about some footballers being stitched up by advisers who were negligent at best, and dishonest at worst. It's not about your personal objection to people (I'm guessing you mostly) having to pay tax. 

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

[egg]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

This thread, until you turned it political, was about wealthy footballers getting tucked up by shysters. There was empathy from most posters, me included. You though, have done nothing but whine about tax being daylight robbery etc. Not a word of empathy towards the footballers impacted by it. Not one. 

[verlaine1979]

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

[ChrisPY]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You see, that's where the likes of you and me are different. I have empathy for my fellow citizens. 

You're missing the wider point, although I gave a pointer earlier. If taxes weren't so high there would be less incentive to avoid them.

If the speed limit outside schools was 40 instead of 20, there’d be less incentive to speed outside them.

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

That's one way of looking at it. It doesn't actually say if they were trying to avoid tax nor not, but it does show a lot of the aggressive and ruthless tactics of HMRC which are shameful. I'm not really sure how these things work with regard to tax dodges etc but what it does show is they trusted a group of people that befriended them and were absolutely ripped off by some scumbags. 

[Toadhall Saint]

8 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

Have you watched it? They were not trying to avoid paying tax. They were fraudulently misinformed which has now resulted in HMRC coming after them. City of London police have it on record that they are victims of fraud. The so called advisors even forged their signatures.

[VectisSaint]

9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Obviously they were naive and trusting etc. but fundamentally, we all know there aren't really any legitimate ways to avoid that kind of tax. And we all know that if you make use of loopholes and get it wrong, you're fucked. So I have some sympathy, and hope they manage to cut a deal with HMRC that keeps them out of the poorhouse, but really, they got greedy and paid the price. So it goes.

I think you are misrepresenting these ex-players. Yes they were quite wealthy in their playing days, but I don't think there is any suggestion that they set out to avoid paying tax. Like most people with capital to spare and the thought of a long retirement ahead they looked to secure their futures, and the way to do this is to invest. Nothing wrong with that, at the time investing in property and in these cases film-making were seen as good ways to grow your investment over the medium and long-term. The problem is that they were mostly together at the same club(s) and sought advice initially from someone they trusted and looked up to (namely their football manager) who it seems was in cahoots with some "shady" business people (financial advisors) who it appears fraudulently invested their money in some extremely dodgy schemes whuich ultimately cost the players rather large fortunes. Not saying the players were all entirely innocent and could perhaps have done more to protect themselves but it is very easy to go along with things that all your mates are doing and that is being promoted by the person you probably trust most professionally, namely your manager, especially when that manager is someone of the stature of Howard Wilkinson. 

[Whitey Grandad]

12 hours ago, egg said:

This thread, until you turned it political, was about wealthy footballers getting tucked up by shysters. There was empathy from most posters, me included. You though, have done nothing but whine about tax being daylight robbery etc. Not a word of empathy towards the footballers impacted by it. Not one. 

Political?

Not me.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Political?

Not me.

Tax policy is normally set by governments mate. Politics. 

I'll only respond again to you if you finally taking an interest in the defrauded footballers.

If you want to discuss tax policy, start a thread in the lounge, and we can chat away over there, you know, in the right place for it. 

[Gloucester Saint]

On 04/09/2025 at 08:04, Osvaldorama said:

Plenty of well performing countries have way lower taxes than the UK. 

 

The idea that we can’t reduce taxes by a large amount and still have a better performing country is a nonsense. The government wastes billions and billions. 

Government spending is out of control, and they blame wealthy people instead of fixing it. 

Names? And don’t say America, try going to states like Georgia, Louisiana and Alabama and see the state of their infrastructure. It isn’t like the IEA says it is. Moreover, look at the mortality rates between GOP states and Dem states during the height of Covid. Far more likely to avoid death and lifelong illness in the blue states than the red ones.

Anyway, your argument that UK spending is out control is comparatively disproved, taxes haven’t risen sharply since 2021 and Oz, Canada etc have smaller and younger populations than ours. Furlough also didn’t grow on magic money tree, firms were happy to accept including mine so we have to pay it back over many years hence high public debt in the west https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-internationally

In the good old days of the 50s, 60s and early 70s that Brexiteers claim were better and harp on about, UK taxes were miles higher than now. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, VectisSaint said:Not saying the players were all entirely innocent and could perhaps have done more to protect themselves but it is very easy to go along with things that all your mates are doing and that is being promoted by the person you probably trust most professionally, namely your manager, especially when that manager is someone of the stature of Howard Wilkinson. 

Most sensible comment on this whole thread, and that manager then becomes Head of the LMA. Didn’t he give the firm a glowing testimonial as recently as 2023?

[Toadhall Saint]

5 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Most sensible comment on this whole thread, and that manager then becomes Head of the LMA. Didn’t he give the firm a glowing testimonial as recently as 2023?

Strangely enough - he hasn’t commented and has stepped down from his role at the LMA.