This is how Administration works...

[Legod Second Coming]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc.

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc.

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up.

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold.

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour)

 

Then the taxman will be paid.

 

The then secured creditors.

 

Then the unsecured ones.

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise.

 

Who take back on the previous staff.

 

On lower salaries.

 

And reduced benefits.

 

And fewer of them.

 

To work twice as hard.

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

[TheSaint75]

Which is the reason why any takeover would be better before we go bust!

[Doctoroncall]

Leicester City were the only club to gain from administration. The rest have suffered greatly.

 

 

LSC - you forgot the points deduction.

[s0108787]

Which is the reason why any takeover would be better before we go bust!

 

so the cycle can be started all over again?

 

The only rememdy is for our cost base to square up against our turnover. otherwise it is just delaying the inevitable

[SaintRichmond]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc.

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc.

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up.

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold.

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour)

 

Then the taxman will be paid.

 

The then secured creditors.

 

Then the unsecured ones.

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise.

 

Who take back on the previous staff.

 

On lower salaries.

 

And reduced benefits.

 

And fewer of them.

 

To work twice as hard.

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

 

 

Bournemouth are NOT carrying on with the Board that put them into Administration, Leeds do not have the same Board members either

 

You paint such a "Gloom & Doom " picture, it's almost as if Lowe has asked you to paint the "Dark Side"

 

Quite alot of what you put HAS in fact been done by Lowe in the few short months since Quislig Wilde got him back in

 

This isn't Northern Rock matey, just a very badly run CCC Football Team, sorry, I meant PLC .... (Football doesn't come into

it)

 

PS ... can you define LIQUIDATION for me ???

[alpine_saint]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc.

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc.

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up.

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold.

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour)

 

Then the taxman will be paid.

 

The then secured creditors.

 

Then the unsecured ones.

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise.

 

Who take back on the previous staff.

 

On lower salaries.

 

And reduced benefits.

 

And fewer of them.

 

To work twice as hard.

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

 

DONT YOU GET IT ?

 

Its going to happen anyway, FFS !

 

You cannot make 13,000 people suddenly part with their money when they know they are going to be watching losing shiit played by complete no-marks and has-beens.

 

In case you havent noticed the average person is currently being screwed by fuel and food inflation, increasing credit costs, rising Council Tax, etc. etc. et f**king cetera. What possible motivation is there to contribute to Rupert Lowe's pension fund ?

 

I am not even sure full-houses are going to rescue this club.

 

There is only one chance to rescue this club - a complete buyout. Othersiwe we face administration somewhen this season.

[alpine_saint]

so the cycle can be started all over again?

 

The only rememdy is for our cost base to square up against our turnover. otherwise it is just delaying the inevitable

 

The level of cost-reduction required will utterly kill attendance.

[stevegrant]

Bournemouth are NOT carrying on with the Board that put them into Administration, Leeds do not have the same Board members either

The makeup of the "lesser" board members is completely irrelevant in both cases. Mostyn and Bates call the shots at both clubs, which is exactly the same as it was pre-administration.

[Legod Second Coming]

DONT YOU GET IT ?

 

Its going to happen anyway, FFS !

 

You cannot make 13,000 people suddenly part with their money when they know they are going to be watching losing shiit played by complete no-marks and has-beens.

 

In case you havent noticed the average person is currently being screwed by fuel and food inflation, increasing credit costs, rising Council Tax, etc. etc. et f**king cetera. What possible motivation is there to contribute to Rupert Lowe's pension fund ?

 

I am not even sure full-houses are going to rescue this club.

 

There is only one chance to rescue this club - a complete buyout. Othersiwe we face administration somewhen this season.

 

How about saving a club that people feel passionate enough about to post all day??

[St Marco]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc. - Already happened

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc. - Already happened

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up. - Doubt it

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold. - Already happening

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour) -

 

Then the taxman will be paid. - Already happening

 

The then secured creditors. - Already happening

 

Then the unsecured ones. - Already happening

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise. - Already happening

 

Who take back on the previous staff. - Already happening

 

On lower salaries. - Already happened

 

And reduced benefits. - Already happened

 

And fewer of them. - Already happened

 

To work twice as hard. - Already happened

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

 

What is the difference from what is already happening? No offence but you seem a little bit in denial. The club has/is doing everything it can to cut costs. We have a squad of youth players, a low level manager, loads of staff within the company released, loads of admin staff fired, loads of club staff released including popular members. All areas have been reduced and asked to cover other areas for the same or in some cases even less pay. The banks or any creditor is activly seeking their money returned and has been for sometime, it is what happens when you can't make your re-payments. Now we looklike we are at a stage were our already thin team will be made even thiner thus further reducing our chances to survive. All these are signs of admin and i think we can now start to assume this amazing financial strategy Wilde and Lowe span on the OS has failed. But what do you expect from 2 people who didn't actually say 1 thing about how they planned to change things before they returned?

This club is in freefall and any staff will have been told if they want a new job then go look for one. We have set ourselves up for another relegation battle and everytime they remove 1 of the better players our chances to survive decrease. So if we get relegated we will go into admin and then all that will happen is the admin will come in and start to cut the remaining costs. But we will no longer be a team that has 3 owners and could potentially be bought out for nothing. Remember Pompey were bought for £1 and they went on to survive then went forward after that. In this games climate as with all the other clubs we will get bought out. So if this continues and things remain as they are and we look dead cert to be relegated going into admin will be best for this club in the longterm. We have dragged out our financial problems for 2 years now and we are in an even worse state, that tells me the people who are in control of the finances have failed badly.

[s0108787]

The level of cost-reduction required will utterly kill attendance.

 

Not if the team continue to play in the manner they have been.

 

I'm led to believe you don't go anyway, so the level of cost reduction is irrelevant to you.

 

Unless i've been misled about you of course...

[Legod Second Coming]

Leicester City were the only club to gain from administration. The rest have suffered greatly.

 

 

LSC - you forgot the points deduction.

 

And that took place before the league rule changes on administration...

[John B]

Which is the reason why any takeover would be better before we go bust!

 

I dont think anybody disagrees with you but nobody wants to do it.

 

 

If I was extremely wealthy I would not want to put money in with little return and lots of aggro when things go wrong would you

[Snowballs2]

How about saving a club that people feel passionate enough about to post all day??

 

 

Nope enough is enough, no longer prepared to prop up the wealth of Lowe, Wilde et al

[washsaint]

Alpine - you really are a complete waste of valuable space.

 

 

You're an absolute disgrace calling our new team a bunch of no-marks and has beens playing crap football. Yet you have not seen one single bloody game this season....if you watched any you would see that most (not all) are encouraged by our start and that the football is the most attractive and enjoyable for years.

 

But all you can do is type all day and moan from the comfort of your bunker without actually knowing ANYTHING about how the team are playing.

[John B]

Nope enough is enough, no longer prepared to prop up the wealth of Lowe, Wilde et al

 

So if somebody else bought it you would not prop up their wealth either.

 

Some people are wealthier than us so what

[s0108787]

Alpine - you really are a complete waste of valuable space.

 

 

You're an absolute disgrace calling our new team a bunch of no-marks and has beens playing crap football. Yet you have not seen one single bloody game this season....if you watched any you would see that most (not all) are encouraged by our start and that the football is the most attractive and enjoyable for years.

 

But all you can do is type all day and moan from the comfort of your bunker without actually knowing ANYTHING about how the team are playing.

 

I guess i wasn't misled then?

[aintforever]

It's a good job Lowe n' co blew off the SISU deal - it wasn't quite right.

[Legod Second Coming]

Nope enough is enough, no longer prepared to prop up the wealth of Lowe, Wilde et al

 

But you were prepared to prop up his wealth in Cardiff in 2003, how convenient...

 

I don't want to contribute a cent to the to55er, but neither will I stand idly by while my kids are deprived their future.

[alpine_saint]

How about saving a club that people feel passionate enough about to post all day??

 

Wow, and you accuse others of being in delusion or denial about the situation.

 

The only way you will get them back is a LOT of hard work and RESULTS. And a completel jettison of all personalities that brought us here.

 

There is no trust between the management and the fan base. Trust broken if often gone forever.

[s0108787]

Wow, and you accuse others of being in delusion or denial about the situation.

 

The only way you will get them back is a LOT of hard work and RESULTS. And a completel jettison of all personalities that brought us here.

 

There is no trust between the management and the fan base. Trust broken if often gone forever.

 

2 out of 3 wouldn't be too bad tbf.

[Lowestoft-Saint]

can anyone tell me what odds i would get if i bet -

 

1 Saints will not get relegated this season

2 Saints will not go into Administration this season

3 Saints will not get takenover this season

4 Alpine will find something positive about Saints during the rest of his life

[dockland Dave]

Alpine Saint and St Marco you are complete idiots

[alpine_saint]

Alpine - you really are a complete waste of valuable space.

 

 

You're an absolute disgrace calling our new team a bunch of no-marks and has beens playing crap football. Yet you have not seen one single bloody game this season....if you watched any you would see that most (not all) are encouraged by our start and that the football is the most attractive and enjoyable for years.

 

But all you can do is type all day and moan from the comfort of your bunker without actually knowing ANYTHING about how the team are playing.

 

The "has-been" and "no-mark" comment is directed at what will be left ón 31st August.

 

Come off your high-horse - you know EXACTLY what I mean.

 

And again, I fail to see what my attendance has to do with stating the f**king obvious about the state we're in. But as usual, you and your illk can do nothing but attack the messenger with the unpleasant news...

[John B]

But you were prepared to prop up his wealth in Cardiff in 2003, how convenient...

 

I don't want to contribute a cent to the to55er, but neither will I stand idly by while my kids are deprived their future.

 

 

The hatred of the fans towards Lowe is one of the main reasons why we are in the situation we find ourselves.

 

How we get over that I do not know but I would have thought that Lowe was better qualified and committed than most to lead us forward.

 

By the way I am not getting at Le God but the fan base in general

Edited 18 August, 2008 by John B

[Legod Second Coming]

Wow, and you accuse others of being in delusion or denial about the situation.

 

The only way you will get them back is a LOT of hard work and RESULTS. And a completel jettison of all personalities that brought us here.

 

There is no trust between the management and the fan base. Trust broken if often gone forever.

 

Not guilty, anywhere.

 

And it is a fact that 10k more people is at least £200k into the coffers.

 

If that is too much for some to stomach, then fine.

 

But when the question is asked, what did you do to help the club through its toughest time, I will have a clear conscience.

 

And I'm sick and tired of this backward looking aproach to our predicament.

 

Yes. Lowe oversaw relegation, the plonker. He did then spend £90k on players - not £7million that has seen us hasten a path towards oblivion. So at least his track record of prudence is TOTALLY appropriate to the circumstances as they are.

 

It is just so convenient now we are playing Marcus Bent and not Didier Drogba for people to sit at home and blame the board...

[s0108787]

can anyone tell me what odds i would get if i bet -

 

1 saints will not get relegated this season

2 saints will not go into administration this season

3 saints will not get takenover this season

4 alpine will find something positive about saints during the rest of his life

 

1. 1/20

2. 1/10

3. 2/10

4. 1000000/1

[alpine_saint]

Not guilty, anywhere.

 

And it is a fact that 10k more people is at least £200k into the coffers.

 

If that is too much for some to stomach, then fine.

 

But when the question is asked, what did you do to help the club through its toughest time, I will have a clear conscience.

And I'm sick and tired of this backward looking aproach to our predicament.

 

Yes. Lowe oversaw relegation, the plonker. He did then spend £90k on players - not £7million that has seen us hasten a path towards oblivion. So at least his track record of prudence is TOTALLY appropriate to the circumstances as they are.

 

It is just so convenient now we are playing Marcus Bent and not Didier Drogba for people to sit at home and blame the board...

 

So this is a p*ssing contest for you ?

[St Marco]

Alpine Saint and St Marco you are complete idiots

 

Well that is a well educated mature response thank you!

 

The problem is the club has to many people like you who are living in a fantasy land. I bet in your world you think we will get promoted and have the cash to buy players like Gerrard right? .....

[SaintDonkey]

What is the difference from what is already happening? No offence but you seem a little bit in denial.

 

We don't have a points penalty - which would mean certain relegation. Relegation would make us less attractive to investment, cut our income, mean we had to cut costs...

 

Administration can be a downwards spiral from which it can be difficult to escape. Just look at Luton, Bournmouth and Rotherham. They've all been in the Championship in recent years and are now, thanks to successive administrations, fighting for their league survival. You could argue that for Saints the downwards spiral would be faster because our our higher match day costs. With an average attendance of just 3000 odd in league 2 it would be more than just the corners at Saint Mary's they would be closing.

[s0108787]

Question for Alpine.

 

Have you seen the talent and skill that most of our young players possess?

 

I'm guessing not if you can't see any positives to what is going on at the club.

 

Being experienced or a 'big name player' means F*ck all if you're a s*it player and can't be arsed to work for you wedge. Give these young players a chance - they will NOT disappoint.

 

I have a feeling that JP will not disappoint either. He's come out with more common sense and straight talking than any manager here since WGS.

[Saint_clark]

The point is, administration is a complete last resort. You lose everything - our stadium and our training ground, our academy, all will be sold off. St Marco, yes our assets are being sold off BUT only on the playing side. After administration we will have virtually nothing to work with.

[Legod Second Coming]

So this is a p*ssing contest for you ?

 

 

No you twonk, as you well know.

 

But I wondered what I could do as a simple fan to help us survive and the only constructive thing I could come up with was going to more games and injecting my cash and effort into the club as and when I could feasibly afford.

 

I would even go so far as buying a debenture if that was an idea to stave off adminsitration (and no I can't afford it).

 

Your preferred method is what, exactly??

 

Sitting on the sidelines and taking the **** out of people who are at least making an effort? Denegrating a team you have not seen? Criticisng players and the manager from afar as though that will help build the confidence and morale required to ride out this period?? Dragging down your fellow fans...

 

Tell me, if it was a ****ing contest, what evidence do you have that your shoes are not soaked??

 

No one denies we are in the sh!t. But your proposition to solve the problem is to dump the staff on the dole.

 

Spoken like someone who has clearly NOT been through Administration.

 

When you have come back and tell us why it's the best option. Oh no, I forgot, you're an expert on things you haven't experienced personally, my mistake...

[Lowestoft-Saint]

Question for Alpine.

 

Have you seen the talent and skill that most of our young players possess?

 

I'm guessing not if you can't see any positives to what is going on at the club.

 

Being experienced or a 'big name player' means F*ck all if you're a s*it player and can't be arsed to work for you wedge. Give these young players a chance - they will NOT disappoint.

 

I have a feeling that JP will not disappoint either. He's come out with more common sense and straight talking than any manager here since WGS.

 

Here Here !!!

 

Give these boys the fecking chance they deserve, even if they only avoid relegation by the skin of there teeth, but i dont think it will be like that.

They will give thier all for the club and the shirt they wear, they will show the desire and passion we want to see.

These youngsters will mature very quickly and this club will reap the rewards if they stick together.

 

So what we may have to spend another 3 years or so in the CCC, whilst these youngsters develop and get the balance right to gain promotion, but i believe they can and will do it.

When they do gain promotion they will be better equipted to survive than most clubs that get promoteed from this league.

Why ?

Because we wont have to go out and buy loads of players that can play decent football, because we will already have a team of footballers.

Not a team of has beens, and journeymen.

 

Let Saints be the club that beats this so called formula of bullyboy tactics and long ball merchants to get out of this league.

 

Just give them a bloody chance

[St Marco]

We don't have a points penalty - which would mean certain relegation. Relegation would make us less attractive to investment, cut our income, mean we had to cut costs...

 

Administration can be a downwards spiral from which it can be difficult to escape. Just look at Luton, Bournmouth and Rotherham. They've all been in the Championship in recent years and are now, thanks to successive administrations, fighting for their league survival. You could argue that for Saints the downwards spiral would be faster because our our higher match day costs. With an average attendance of just 3000 odd in league 2 it would be more than just the corners at Saint Mary's they would be closing.

 

Very true however no offence to those clubs we are a better prospect then them. We have not only more supporters but better infrastructure i.e stadium etc..People have over looked clubs that have gone into admin and actually gone on to do better e.g Hull City,QPR, Portsmouth etc.. You have clubs that were on the same slide as us and have stopped the rot by going into it to get rid of certain areas of mismanagement i.e Leeds,Forest. Plus add to this fact some people don't even know what admin actually means, it is a legal procedure were a buisness in financial trouble is allowed to oporate without having to sell off assets to cover debts. If people want to read what really happens then read http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2336289.stm

 

So as i said if we look a dead cert to go down i would rather have the 10point deduction for next season and be rid of the people who have failed the club and continue to do so and start again. Plus you have to ask why have we not been bought out, our financial situation and compexity of our ownership is deffinatly a reason why we haven't been. Would people be more interested if they didnt have to pay £20m+ debts? Of course they would.

[Legod Second Coming]

Very true however no offence to those clubs we are a better prospect then them. We have not only more supporters but better infrastructure i.e stadium etc..People have over looked clubs that have gone into admin and actually gone on to do better e.g Hull City,QPR, Portsmouth etc.. You have clubs that were on the same slide as us and have stopped the rot by going into it to get rid of certain areas of mismanagement i.e Leeds,Forest. Plus add to this fact some people don't even know what admin actually means, it is a legal procedure were a buisness in financial trouble is allowed to oporate without having to sell off assets to cover debts. If people want to read what really happens then read http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2336289.stm

 

So as i said if we look a dead cert to go down i would rather have the 10point deduction for next season and be rid of the people who have failed the club and continue to do so and start again. Plus you have to ask why have we not been bought out, our financial situation and compexity of our ownership is deffinatly a reason why we haven't been. Would people be more interested if they didnt have to pay £20m+ debts? Of course they would.

 

And Marco, when Administrators sell business assets and businesses, do you know whom the most likely buyers are...

 

So in fact, you will have strenghted Lowe's hold on the club which he will now PRIVATELY own.

 

And we are better off how exactly?

[bridge too far]

...

So as i said if we look a dead cert to go down i would rather have the 10point deduction for next season and be rid of the people who have failed the club and continue to do so and start again. Plus you have to ask why have we not been bought out, our financial situation and compexity of our ownership is deffinatly a reason why we haven't been. Would people be more interested if they didnt have to pay £20m+ debts? Of course they would.

 

 

But there's no guarantee that we would be rid of these people. It's already been pointed out earlier in the thread that people like Bates see their clubs go into administration and then buy it back.

 

If we went into admin. what's to stop the gruesome twosome from buying us back again, all debts gone?

[Fowllyd]

Very true however no offence to those clubs we are a better prospect then them. We have not only more supporters but better infrastructure i.e stadium etc..People have over looked clubs that have gone into admin and actually gone on to do better e.g Hull City,QPR, Portsmouth etc.. You have clubs that were on the same slide as us and have stopped the rot by going into it to get rid of certain areas of mismanagement i.e Leeds,Forest. Plus add to this fact some people don't even know what admin actually means, it is a legal procedure were a buisness in financial trouble is allowed to oporate without having to sell off assets to cover debts. If people want to read what really happens then read http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2336289.stm

 

So as i said if we look a dead cert to go down i would rather have the 10point deduction for next season and be rid of the people who have failed the club and continue to do so and start again. Plus you have to ask why have we not been bought out, our financial situation and compexity of our ownership is deffinatly a reason why we haven't been. Would people be more interested if they didnt have to pay £20m+ debts? Of course they would.

 

Most of the clubs you mention in your first paragraph went into administration before points were deducted for doing so; you can hardly compare their situations then to ours now.

 

Administration, as so many on here keep pointing out, would in no way guarantee that we would be rid of Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. Bates controls Leeds, Mostyn controls Bournemouth. If Lowe wanted to run a post-administration SLH/SFC he'd be in pole position to do so. Don't kid yourself about that.

[St Marco]

And Marco, when Administrators sell business assets and businesses, do you know whom the most likely buyers are...

 

So in fact, you will have strenghted Lowe's hold on the club which he will now PRIVATELY own.

 

And we are better off how exactly?

 

To use this quote

 

WHAT IS ADMINISTRATION

AND WHAT DO ADMINISTRATORS DO?

 

They're accountants whose job is to try and get the best deal for the business and the creditors, by trying to find a buyer, or minimising the losses. Going into administration is a legal move, which carries legal obligations.

 

Responsibility for running the club goes to the men in grey suits, instead of the sheepskin coats. They look at how to improve revenue streams, often by selling off assets, and using their contacts to try and pull in new investment, and do deals with the creditors.

 

It's an admission of failure by the club's board, and once the administrator's in, he's in charge of pretty much everything apart from coaching the players and picking the team

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7305998.stm

 

So going into admin is bad for the current but it doesn't always mean bad in the longterm. The sad fact is a lot of small clubs in football have spent more money then they have for a period of time. That time ran out and thus 1 or 2 no longer exist. The problem here is if they had stopped messing up their finances they would still be active. If our club continues to go further and further into debt we will have the same problem as those clubs. Lowe and Wilde will never admit they failed in terms of finances and because they both own shares they will never go into admin unless forced to. But if we did they would not get the club because the admin team HAVE to support the club/company and it's best interests and will choose the bidder best for that. If we went into admin we would have far richer people then Wilde and Lowe bidding for it. So in your example of Leeds you are right about Bates as he won the bid twice. What you forget to mention is Leeds had a 15 point deduction for CVA. If they didn't have that reduction they would be back in the CCC comfortably, they still got to the playoff final. Think it is safe to assume they will go up this year and the bad times are over for them.

 

So don't get me wrong we should avoid admin at all costs, but if we look relegated we will go into admin for sure. If we are relegated we will have no choice. People need to understand that by selling players decreases our already slim chance of avoiding it.

[Legod Second Coming]

To use this quote

 

WHAT IS ADMINISTRATION

AND WHAT DO ADMINISTRATORS DO?

 

They're accountants whose job is to try and get the best deal for the business and the creditors, by trying to find a buyer, or minimising the losses. Going into administration is a legal move, which carries legal obligations.

 

Responsibility for running the club goes to the men in grey suits, instead of the sheepskin coats. They look at how to improve revenue streams, often by selling off assets, and using their contacts to try and pull in new investment, and do deals with the creditors.

 

It's an admission of failure by the club's board, and once the administrator's in, he's in charge of pretty much everything apart from coaching the players and picking the team

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7305998.stm

 

So going into admin is bad for the current but it doesn't always mean bad in the longterm. The sad fact is a lot of small clubs in football have spent more money then they have for a period of time. That time ran out and thus 1 or 2 no longer exist. The problem here is if they had stopped messing up their finances they would still be active. If our club continues to go further and further into debt we will have the same problem as those clubs. Lowe and Wilde will never admit they failed in terms of finances and because they both own shares they will never go into admin unless forced to. But if we did they would not get the club because the admin team HAVE to support the club/company and it's best interests and will choose the bidder best for that. If we went into admin we would have far richer people then Wilde and Lowe bidding for it. So in your example of Leeds you are right about Bates as he won the bid twice. What you forget to mention is Leeds had a 15 point deduction for CVA. If they didn't have that reduction they would be back in the CCC comfortably, they still got to the playoff final. Think it is safe to assume they will go up this year and the bad times are over for them.

 

So don't get me wrong we should avoid admin at all costs, but if we look relegated we will go into admin for sure. If we are relegated we will have no choice. People need to understand that by selling players decreases our already slim chance of avoiding it.

 

Thanks for the education. Having run a limited company placed into administration by its plc board, would you like to know how it really works??

 

Would you like to meet the directors and see their Ferraris bought shortly before the administration was announced? Of a company they now effectively own again??

 

Or meet the guy who worked for 24 years and now has no pension?

 

Or meet the guy I gave £200 to from my own pocket to pay his rent??

 

The Adminsitrator has NO obligation to ensure the 'best' people buy the business - and since the incumbent management know everything about the business they nearly always have the best chance to buy it (if they have the finance). Administrators don't want to run companies for a year while someone finds the finance, completes due diligence, etc.

 

Think about it. Who wouldn't do what was easiest/quickest and (thereby) claim they had sold the business as a going concern with minimum disruption to the business. And maybe they're right so to do.

 

I wish people would understand what Administration means to a business before they bandy the idea around with such nonchalence.

 

And if I sound angry about this, I am. Want to donate to the 63 year old carpenter who is having to stack shelves in Tesco to pay for his fecking retirement? Thought not...

[alpine_saint]

For all the financial problems, who are we actually upset about losing?? Davies is disappointing, but how many times did he even play for saints?! He's better than most we have, but not the god many on here make out, and not irreplaceable. We had thomas and powell in defence regularly last season ffs! thomas will still get games this year, hopefully a young player will come through, and wotton and schniederlin can play there.

 

But the main point is that largely only deadwood has gone. I really didn't rate safri and see schniederlin as a far, far more effective player. gillet deserved a chance and seems to be taking it. dyer will play a more key role, the likes of thomson, lallana and james are excellent young players who need games. moan about them if you want, but i really hope you weren't moaning about JV, idiakez, euell, licka as well. christ, what a midfield that was.

 

Really ?

 

Skacel and Euell are still drawing their high wages.

 

Rasiak and Saga havent brought any money in.

 

Davies has probably gone at a loss if we have to pay Boro something.

[mattyd]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc.

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc.

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up.

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold.

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour)

 

Then the taxman will be paid.

 

The then secured creditors.

 

Then the unsecured ones.

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise.

 

Who take back on the previous staff.

 

On lower salaries.

 

And reduced benefits.

 

And fewer of them.

 

To work twice as hard.

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

 

This is inaccurate. The taxman has no preferential status and the pensions are safe. As for the jobs, many would be lost but the cost base would be lower and the debts paid.

 

Admnistration is a form of protection from creditors.

[Panda]

Why do you assume there will be a club left if we go into administration? Sure, AFC Southampton may be playing in the lower reaches of the football pyramid just like Southport, Barrow, Scarborough, Maidstone and Newport County. Anyone wishing administration on us is wishing to see our club dead. There is no guarantee of survivial and total liquidation is a high possibility. Let's not go there. Let us trust that somehow severe cost cutting linked with a youth policy really can get us stable enough to survive in the longer term. This is not about RL and MW and getting even with them. What pleasure can there be in watching them out of pocket for the value of their investment when we have no team left at all? It is not about blame, it is not about incompetence, it is not about hate. Football is going through bad times (self inflicted by Premier League greed) and we are suffering like many others. There is no quick fix.

[St Marco]

Thanks for the education. Having run a limited company placed into administration by its plc board, would you like to know how it really works??

 

Would you like to meet the directors and see their Ferraris bought shortly before the administration was announced? Of a company they now effectively own again??

 

Or meet the guy who worked for 24 years and now has no pension?

 

Or meet the guy I gave £200 to from my own pocket to pay his rent??

 

The Adminsitrator has NO obligation to ensure the 'best' people buy the business - and since the incumbent management know everything about the business they nearly always have the best chance to buy it (if they have the finance). Administrators don't want to run companies for a year while someone finds the finance, completes due diligence, etc.

 

Think about it. Who wouldn't do what was easiest/quickest and (thereby) claim they had sold the business as a going concern with minimum disruption to the business. And maybe they're right so to do.

 

I wish people would understand what Administration means to a business before they bandy the idea around with such nonchalence.

 

And if I sound angry about this, I am. Want to donate to the 63 year old carpenter who is having to stack shelves in Tesco to pay for his fecking retirement? Thought not...

 

Im a media analyst for flemedia and i know majority of this is pure ********.

People know i had a few friends in the club who have now been made redundent. One was a secretary and one was part of the resources department. It is common knowledge that we have made loads of people unemployed, in many cases have merged departments into one thus to cover 2 sectors in 1 go. One of my friends worked there for 15 years. He has a new job after being sacked and has no problems. Majority of those who have been layed off will be the same. What you fail to realise is that right now we are in the shadow of a recession. The pound is falling fast, the housing industry is in reverse and to top it all off the banks will no longer lend anyone money (credit crunch). Add to that mix the rising costs of fuel and gases means everyone is worse off. So while i feel for the 63 year old stacking shelves i also feel for the hard working guy who has worked his ass off for many years only to be fired because of the current climate. I'm sure most of you all know someone from a company that has been made redundent recently or is on the verge of it, i wonder how many themselves are in that situation.

 

So i feel sorry for the cook in the club that he/she might be about to lose their job, i feel sorry for the people at the merchandise shop that are being asked to work fewer hours, i feel sorry for the kitman that worked for 20 years and was fired and so on. But i feel the same sorrow for the people who are 15 and trying to fund their own way by working at Mcdonalds and might lose their job, the same sorrow for the family that work so hard but can't afford to have a place of their own, the same sorrow for the old person who worked all their life but can't afford to pay for the heating in their house and so on. So while the people at the club who have lost their jobs have it bad they don't have it horrible and i think that is pretty naieve to paint that picture. No job is 100% set for life and about 99% of us accept that.

 

As for the administration thing about getting the best buisness again i am thinking you don't know what your talking about as Administration is a legal procedure used by many companies that have it bad. The next step is liquidation but very few get that far. How many football clubs have actually died after admin? An administrator is set by the courts to look after the company and the creditors. It is his job to get the club running again within it's limits while negotiating with the people who are owed money. They will in some cases accept a lower debt or even in banks cases postpone the debt to a later date. The job is to get the company out of it's current financial trouble and bring it back from the brink. When that has happened and the bank is happy and the club is solvent the administrator must apply for a release from the court. The court has to look at it and see the company will not fall back into the same situation. After that has been agreed the company is then put up for sale. This is just like how it is normally except the club is free of most debts and no longer has to sell to meet targets. This makes it far more attractive to potential buyers. In the case of Leeds they were initially bought for £10m but had to go to court to have this bid accepted. The second bid by Bates was not released but you can be sure it was higher. In that instance he was the best man for the job, he had his own money and has spent quite a bit on new players and paying journeyman's wages. If we find ourselves in that situation i can tell you right now from a analyst perspective they would never agree to Lowes bid if he did unless he was backed by a financial group/consortium. Because what would the point be of selling the club to someone with no money? They would just be getting into the same practice as before. If you know as much as you claim you would know administration is known as "rescue remedy" by companies. Which translated means if your in the **** and you have used all your other options that is the only in house process that can save you.

 

Many people see the word administration and they think all doom and gloom, even you are only talking about the negative sides, hate mongering if you will. But their are many many positives from going into it for companies that are fragmented and in strk terms just headed for oblivion. Right now we are one of those companies. For so many years we have relied on selling one of our youngsters or stars to stay a float, was only a matter of time before that buisness policy falls apart when the stars dry up.

[bridge too far]

St Marco - don't forget that most companies going into administration don't get points deducted

 

We will because there won't be enough money to pay off the Inland Revenue - that's what's happened with Bournemouth, Leeds, Luton etc. etc.

 

It's a personal view but I seriously believe that, if a company has gone into administration, the incumbent directors should be barred from being involved in that company if, like a phoenix, it rises from the ashes.

[Legod Second Coming]

Im a media analyst for flemedia and i know majority of this is pure ********.

People know i had a few friends in the club who have now been made redundent. One was a secretary and one was part of the resources department. It is common knowledge that we have made loads of people unemployed, in many cases have merged departments into one thus to cover 2 sectors in 1 go. One of my friends worked there for 15 years. He has a new job after being sacked and has no problems. Majority of those who have been layed off will be the same. What you fail to realise is that right now we are in the shadow of a recession. The pound is falling fast, the housing industry is in reverse and to top it all off the banks will no longer lend anyone money (credit crunch). Add to that mix the rising costs of fuel and gases means everyone is worse off. So while i feel for the 63 year old stacking shelves i also feel for the hard working guy who has worked his ass off for many years only to be fired because of the current climate. I'm sure most of you all know someone from a company that has been made redundent recently or is on the verge of it, i wonder how many themselves are in that situation.

 

So i feel sorry for the cook in the club that he/she might be about to lose their job, i feel sorry for the people at the merchandise shop that are being asked to work fewer hours, i feel sorry for the kitman that worked for 20 years and was fired and so on. But i feel the same sorrow for the people who are 15 and trying to fund their own way by working at Mcdonalds and might lose their job, the same sorrow for the family that work so hard but can't afford to have a place of their own, the same sorrow for the old person who worked all their life but can't afford to pay for the heating in their house and so on. So while the people at the club who have lost their jobs have it bad they don't have it horrible and i think that is pretty naieve to paint that picture. No job is 100% set for life and about 99% of us accept that.

 

As for the administration thing about getting the best buisness again i am thinking you don't know what your talking about as Administration is a legal procedure used by many companies that have it bad. The next step is liquidation but very few get that far. How many football clubs have actually died after admin? An administrator is set by the courts to look after the company and the creditors. It is his job to get the club running again within it's limits while negotiating with the people who are owed money. They will in some cases accept a lower debt or even in banks cases postpone the debt to a later date. The job is to get the company out of it's current financial trouble and bring it back from the brink. When that has happened and the bank is happy and the club is solvent the administrator must apply for a release from the court. The court has to look at it and see the company will not fall back into the same situation. After that has been agreed the company is then put up for sale. This is just like how it is normally except the club is free of most debts and no longer has to sell to meet targets. This makes it far more attractive to potential buyers. In the case of Leeds they were initially bought for £10m but had to go to court to have this bid accepted. The second bid by Bates was not released but you can be sure it was higher. In that instance he was the best man for the job, he had his own money and has spent quite a bit on new players and paying journeyman's wages. If we find ourselves in that situation i can tell you right now from a analyst perspective they would never agree to Lowes bid if he did unless he was backed by a financial group/consortium. Because what would the point be of selling the club to someone with no money? They would just be getting into the same practice as before. If you know as much as you claim you would know administration is known as "rescue remedy" by companies. Which translated means if your in the **** and you have used all your other options that is the only in house process that can save you.

 

Many people see the word administration and they think all doom and gloom, even you are only talking about the negative sides, hate mongering if you will. But their are many many positives from going into it for companies that are fragmented and in strk terms just headed for oblivion. Right now we are one of those companies. For so many years we have relied on selling one of our youngsters or stars to stay a float, was only a matter of time before that buisness policy falls apart when the stars dry up.

 

Which is exactly what the current Chairman is attempting to do without Administration?

 

So given that it is a last resort, will cost jobs, will cost us at best 10 points, will result in massive upheaval for the team/club and all those associated with it and has absolutely NO guarantee of removing one single board member, remind my why you recommend this course?

[St Marco]

St Marco - don't forget that most companies going into administration don't get points deducted

 

We will because there won't be enough money to pay off the Inland Revenue - that's what's happened with Bournemouth, Leeds, Luton etc. etc.

 

It's a personal view but I seriously believe that, if a company has gone into administration, the incumbent directors should be barred from being involved in that company if, like a phoenix, it rises from the ashes.

 

Of course as you only ever really hear about admin when a club is threatened with it. People have to remember why they bought in the points deduction in the 1st place. Sometimes going into admin isn't a punishment like people make it out to be. The 10point deduction is a punishment. Look at Leeds if they didn't have that deduction they would of been up last season.

[AwaySaint1]

Not if the team continue to play in the manner they have been.

 

I'm led to believe you don't go anyway, so the level of cost reduction is irrelevant to you.

 

Unless i've been misled about you of course...

 

If your only replies to Alpine state that he does not attend games then you are pretty poor at forum messageboards.

 

He posts things that most members do not want to read but to reply like that is retarded.

[St Marco]

Which is exactly what the current Chairman is attempting to do without Administration?

 

So given that it is a last resort, will cost jobs, will cost us at best 10 points, will result in massive upheaval for the team/club and all those associated with it and has absolutely NO guarantee of removing one single board member, remind my why you recommend this course?

 

Exactly but the difference is all those people are losing their jobs while Lowe and Wilde keep their own. And yes it removes every single board member. If a company/club is a PLC and goes into admin the administrator will deal 1st with the people owed money, if after that there is money left at all they split it with the shareholders. Then they lose their shares/company and it is delisted. In most cases shareholders will get fook all. This is the gamble of investing in shares.

When the process is complete the only person left is the administrator, he listens to nobody but the courts. Ask yourself how many clubs have gone into admin and then when they have been put up for sale have come out with the same owner/board? Even in Leeds instance you can't say Bates because it wasen't him who created the problems it was Risdale.

 

I do not recommend this course unless it is as i said near certain we are down because if we go down we will be in it anyway. But by going into admin will change the club. We will no longer be owned by many people who can't get on, we will be put up for sale which attracts better potential investors then our current plight. We will have a fresh start like other clubs such as Forest,Leciester,Leeds etc. have had. It is my opinion we will never go forward as a club or buisness while we are in our current fragmented state. And i believe because of that state we will never be bought out. So our slide will continue. If we go down and don't go into admin we will just keep prolonging the inevitable which the further u fall makes it harder and harder to get back up. Make no mistakes if we are losing as much as we think we will have no option but to go into admin anyway. As our old board said a year ago, if we don't get investment this club is headed for admin. The only problem is people didn't agree with them. So that board and even Crouch's board activley looked for investment. They put some offers on the table (Sissu) and were in talks with others (Fulthorpe). So if we don't get investment or can't sell of more of the players who are orth something we will go into admin.

[Mole1]

...for all of you who think it is the answer to rid this club of the current management.

 

First, staff will be laid off - not the board or players, but groundsmen, ticket hotline operators, etc.

 

Next, will go the catering staff, cleaners, etc.

 

Then any pension provision for those people will be wound up.

 

Then all the obvious assets will be sold.

 

Then the Administrators will take their fees - FWIW Grant Thornton charge £130 for a secretary to type the letters to fire the ground-staff... (oh, the manager who oversees it, try around £600 per hour)

 

Then the taxman will be paid.

 

The then secured creditors.

 

Then the unsecured ones.

 

Then what remains is sold to the former management, who have overseen the demise.

 

Who take back on the previous staff.

 

On lower salaries.

 

And reduced benefits.

 

And fewer of them.

 

To work twice as hard.

 

 

 

STILL think you want to inflict this on the people who ACTUALLY run your club??

 

Administration will only occur if there is no buyer/consortium willing to take on the debt. All the signs are that there are people who will take on the debt, but not waste money buying the shares off Lowe and Wilde. Why should they buy Lowe and Wildes shares? It makes no sense whatsoever to line the pockets of the forementioned when the club is so close to administration. Lowe and Wilde simply have to give their shares away and the decline can be halted. The only other choice they have is to put the club into administration but would the chairman of W H Ireland want his CV to show he took administration over salvation like a spoilt child?

 

However if administration does happen you are wrong to state that what remains will be sold to the current management. We are not Leeds United where Bates ensured he became the largest creditor. Barclays and Norwich Union are the largest creditors and as such will demand the club is sold to the highest bidder. Of course Lowe and Wilde could be the highest bidders LMAO.