The Spygate Saga

[Katalinic]

The PP interview was obviously prior to the Bristol City game. After which Tonda walked around the ground applauding  - his last home game maybe. It's like they know what's coming tbh.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Where has the suggestion come from that we've sounded out potential new managers?

If (inevitably) Tonda is likely to be banned for any amount of time, sounding out a new manager is the right thing to do. 

[trousers]

And, lo and behold, here's the predictable / understandable reactions from fans of other clubs... Definitely another own goal imo... Please tell me we haven't gone back to seeking advice from our original lawyers...?

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by trousers

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

If (inevitably) Tonda is likely to be banned for any amount of time, sounding out a new manager is the right thing to do. 

Yes I know but if they have actively been looking for new managers then the suggestion is that they are expecting him to go. Looking at it there isn't evidence they have actually done that, Roan just asked the question.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

And here's the predictable / understandable reactions from fans of other clubs... 

 

 

Just going to drag it all up again and we aren't going to get any sympathy. Why speak out? I'd love to know which crisis management firm advised them to do it and for what purpose.

[LGTL]

Sometimes it’s just best to say nothing. 

[EssEffCee]

I'd find it mental if we hadn't sounded out any managers to be honest. We quite obviously should be just in case so we're not starting entirely from scratch if he gets a long ban 

Then again this is Sport Republic we're talking about so probably not that surprising if we haven't.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, LGTL said:

Sometimes it’s just best to say nothing. 

they key players were pretty much told that during the incident the club just remained silent.

Now, the club are getting it out there that we have been punished enough and time to move on after the 'biggest sporting sanction ever in football...also framing it that punishing Tonda will punish the club (again).

 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

they key players were pretty much told that during the incident the club just remained silent.

Now, the club are getting it out there that we have been punished enough and time to move on after the 'biggest sporting sanction ever in football...also framing it that punishing Tonda will punish the club (again).

 

I'm sure our lawyers will have been making that point at the hearing. Is a Dan Roan interview released three days before the hearing really going to change their minds if they're set on a ban?

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm sure our lawyers will have been making that point at the hearing. Is a Dan Roan interview released three days before the hearing really going to change their minds if they're set on a ban?

It is to appease the masses, ie, saints fans that require the club to 'comment' as pretty much stated at the fans forum.

[westmidlandsaint]

I feel for Saints/Parsons here. They're between a rock and a hard place. 

Don't say anything and we all say "they don't communicate and respect us fans, the clubs silence is deafening"

They talk and we all say "what they talking for, stay silent you'll make things worse" 

My opinion for what it's worth is the club have been told to say "we've been punished enough" to try and get people saying it stupid to be dragged out this long and would be harsh for anything to severe. I do think Parsons should have played more on how long its taking. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, westmidlandsaint said:

I feel for Saints/Parsons here. They're between a rock and a hard place. 

Don't say anything and we all say "they don't communicate and respect us fans, the clubs silence is deafening"

They talk and we all say "what they talking for, stay silent you'll make things worse" 

My opinion for what it's worth is the club have been told to say "we've been punished enough" to try and get people saying it stupid to be dragged out this long and would be harsh for anything to severe. I do think Parsons should have played more on how long its taking. 

the wider media narrative will pick up from Thursday and we have already go it 'out there' enough is enough / woe is us

[trousers]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is to appease the masses, ie, saints fans that require the club to 'comment' as pretty much stated at the fans forum.

I'm not seeing any Saints fans (online) saying this is a good idea... So which Saints fans are you referring to that were clamouring for this interview ahead of the hearing...? 

(That's largely a rhetorical question as I know you often like to play the contraian card... ) 

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[obelisk]

The club remained silent when the EFL and "Gibbo" were throwing their toys out of the pram over what the rest of the football world considers to be a laughably over the top reaction to some light scouting. Fat lot of good that did.

[maxi_sopez]

Come across poorly. Haven’t we been through enough - whining, looking for sympathy. Not sure why they’ve even done this. Does nothing for saints fans and encourages pile on from others. Bizarre 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, westmidlandsaint said:

I feel for Saints/Parsons here. They're between a rock and a hard place. 

Don't say anything and we all say "they don't communicate and respect us fans, the clubs silence is deafening"

They talk and we all say "what they talking for, stay silent you'll make things worse" 

My opinion for what it's worth is the club have been told to say "we've been punished enough" to try and get people saying it stupid to be dragged out this long and would be harsh for anything to severe. I do think Parsons should have played more on how long its taking. 

How are they? The club and Tonda said their piece months ago and these interviews have said nothing new. Why feed the media machine and give the BBC the news it wants to throw it all out their again? What do we have to gain?

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'm seeing any Saints fans (online) saying this is a good idea... So which Saints fans are you referring to that we're clamouring for this interview ahead of the hearing...? 

(That largely a rhetorical question as I know you often like to play the contraian card... ) 

literally from the Fans Forum. It was pretty clear that view was we just sat silent in May. This time, we have not.

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, trousers said:

And, lo and behold, here's the predictable / understandable reactions from fans of other clubs...

 

They can all just fuck off.

[hypochondriac]

If we has to do an interview I'd have focused on precedent with Bielsa and the amount of time it has taken. Instead we talk about being punished already which is an irrelevance.

[obelisk]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

If we has to do an interview I'd have focused on precedent with Bielsa and the amount of time it has taken. Instead we talk about being punished already which is an irrelevance.

I'm sure that has been well and truly pointed out to the FA.

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

literally from the Fans Forum. It was pretty clear that view was we just sat silent in May. This time, we have not.

Fair enough... So the small cohort of fans that typically complain about the beer and toilet rolls then...

#onlykidding

P.s. FWIW, I think the frustration fans had in May, regarding the club's radio silence, is that almost nobody was expecting the severity of the punishment that was dished out, so all people were asking for back then was some kind of benign holding statement from the club... That's different to where we are now... The fans' expectations are largely the complete opposite this time around... i.e. "expecting the worst" being the most commonly held viewpoint... So there's no inconsistency in now questioning the wisdom of the club putting out a statement now...

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Teamsaint1]

One thing that would be odd about a further heavy punishment is that the EFL handed out two Sporting Sanctions ( as demanded by gibson ) .Given the Bielsa precedents ,the financial loss of at a minimum the gate money from the playoff final, and the very clear deterrent  that has been put in place to other clubs, a further heavy  punishment is simply a rather nasty bit of retribution.

Edited 5 hours ago by Teamsaint1

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, obelisk said:

I'm sure that has been well and truly pointed out to the FA.

Right but if we felt that was sufficient there is no need to run to the media prior to the verdict.

[obelisk]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Right but if we felt that was sufficient there is no need to run to the media prior to the verdict.

It worked for "Gibbo".

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, obelisk said:

It worked for "Gibbo".

The reason it worked is because sadly we were bang to rights and had committed the crime. Going to the media to say we have been punished already is pointless. Tonda hasn't personally been punished yet and the fact it damages the club is entirely our choice for not sacking him. And the whining from Parsons about local businesses losing money and the money we lose in legal fees is silly. We did it and the local businesses should be mad at the club and Tonda for spying and costing us the chance of promotion. I'd really rather not be dragging this all up again but the club have decided it's a good idea.

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[saintant]

34 minutes ago, trousers said:

And, lo and behold, here's the predictable / understandable reactions from fans of other clubs... Definitely another own goal imo... Please tell me we haven't gone back to seeking advice from our original lawyers...?

 

 

Couldn't give a monkeys what some fans at some other clubs think. We've heard it all before. Water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned.

[Teamsaint1]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

The reason it worked is because sadly we were bang to rights and had committed the crime. Going to the media to say we have been punished already is pointless Tonda hasn't personally been punished yet and the fact it damages the club is entirely our choice for not sacking him.

He hasn't personally been reprimanded, but has in fact suffered significant punishment with loss of bonuses, and the chance to manage in the PL.

 

We have had the sporting sanctions demanded , a financial loss from the playoff final, and the deterrent effect is clear.

There is no justification at all for further significant punishment..

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Couldn't give a monkeys what some fans at some other clubs think. We've heard it all before. Water off a duck's back as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I'm not saying it bothers me, just observing that we've stoked up yet more furore by playing the "woe is us" victim card when there's nothing to be gained in doing so (IMO)

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Teamsaint1 said:

He hasn't personally been reprimanded, but has in fact suffered significant punishment with loss of bonuses, and the chance to manage in the PL.

 

We have had the sporting sanctions demanded , a financial loss from the playoff final, and the deterrent effect is clear.

There is no justification at all for further significant punishment..

It's not further punishment. Let's say hypothetically that we had sacked him in the summer. If he had received a football ban for six months, no one would be saying how unfair it is and how we had been punished already because it would be nothing to do with us. The fact it will affect us if he gets a ban is a choice we have made and it shouldn't affect the outcome.

[saintant]

Just now, trousers said:

Yeah, I'm not saying it bothers me, just observing that we've stoked up the usual furore by playing the "woe is us" victim card when there's nothing to be gained in doing so (IMO)

It's all a bit hypocritical because we know for a fact that most if not all clubs have been doing it for years. We were just the amateurs who got caught and Gibbo decided to use it to his advantage to give Boro a second crack at the play-offs. People in glass houses springs to mind.

[trousers]

For those suggesting that doing these interviews before the hearing isn't a bad thing, what do you think the benefit is of doing so? (other than to placate a perceived clamour from fans for such a preemptive interview). Genuinely interested as I can't see anything to be gained myself, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious...?

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

the wider media narrative will pick up from Thursday and we have already go it 'out there' enough is enough / woe is us

I guess you're still hoping Tonda receives a long ban so that the club is forced to sack him?

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

It's all a bit hypocritical because we know for a fact that most if not all clubs have been doing it for years. We were just the amateurs who got caught and Gibbo decided to use it to his advantage to give Boro a second crack at the play-offs. People in glass houses springs to mind.

Not relevant and we've been through this all already. We did the crime, got caught and were punished for it. Personally I think the punishment was harsh but I can also see why they did it. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, saintant said:

I guess you're still hoping Tonda receives a long ban so that the club is forced to sack him?

Still?

[trousers]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Still?

Sacked him last year. Keep up...

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[obelisk]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

crime

Crime? Get a grip.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

For those suggesting that doing these interviews before the hearing isn't a bad thing, what do you think the benefit is of doing so? (other than to placate a perceived clamour from fans for such a preemptive interview). Genuinely interested as I can't see anything to be gained myself, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious...?

The only thing I can think is that they were advised to do them by whatever communication firm we are using as part of a strategy to get our narrative out there whatever the outcome ultimately is. I assume if it's a harsh penalty that it won't be over on Friday because we will be appealing and that might drag on and maybe we wanted to say our piece prior to any appeal when we probably will be quiet again until the end of the process. Or maybe we just fancied a chat with Dan Roan I don't know.

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Teamsaint1]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not further punishment. Let's say hypothetically that we had sacked him in the summer. If he had received a football ban for six months, no one would be saying how unfair it is and how we had been punished already because it would be nothing to do with us. The fact it will affect us if he gets a ban is a choice we have made and it shouldn't affect the outcome.

The board were well within their rights not to sack him.Whether they should have is another thing.

There is a case for a small punishment  for the FA to make the point about Tonda's  personal responsibility , but the punishments handed out have been more than adequate punishment for all concerned.They have affected TE very significantly. The deterrent effect is clear. Bielsa got off with a slap on the wrist.

Edited 5 hours ago by Teamsaint1

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Crime? Get a grip.

Fuck off its a figure of speech.

[AlexLaw76]

I feel the club should have moved on the moment the season was over. Having this hang over us is entirely a choice.

However, he is here now so hope we get out of it relatively unscathed.

Edited 5 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[saintant]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Still?

Well you've been banging on since the year dot that you think he's useless so it's a fair guess that you've always hoped he receives a lengthy ban - just applying logic.

[obelisk]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Fuck off its a figure of speech.

No it isn't.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, saintant said:

Well you've been banging on since the year dot that you think he's useless so it's a fair guess that you've always hoped he receives a lengthy ban - just applying logic.

Banging on?

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Teamsaint1 said:

The board were well withing their rights not to sack him.Whether they should have is another thing.

There is a case for a small punishment  for the FA to make the point about Tonda's  personal responsibility , but the punishments handed out have been more than adequate punishment for all concerned.They have affected TE very significantly. The deterrent effect is clear. Bielsa got off with a slap on the wrist.

Of course they are. It's just you can't not sack him knowing the risk of a possible ban and then get upset at the prospect of the ban. We knew this could happen when we decided not to sack him.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

For those suggesting that doing these interviews before the hearing isn't a bad thing, what do you think the benefit is of doing so? (other than to placate a perceived clamour from fans for such a preemptive interview). Genuinely interested as I can't see anything to be gained myself, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious...?

I cant see how we would have gained anything from doing it. It seems absolutely pointless to me with the only outcome is people thinking we are playing the victim. Whilst i do completely agree that the offence is pretty minor we were still guilty of it and admitted as such so whining about how much money it's cost in legal fees is pretty embarrassing, 

As for what punishment he gets, i cant see why they'd give him a touchline ban as the offence didn't happen on the touchline. It'll be a full ban you'd think and i fully expect him to get hammered for it. Way over the top as was the punishment of kicking us out the play off final and the 4 point penalty, but as has been said they love making examples of smaller clubs.

Edited 5 hours ago by Turkish

[obelisk]

Well at least the Roan piece has allowed us to have another squabble. Just the thing for a Monday morning.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

I cant see how we would have gained anything from doing it. It seems absolutely pointless to me with the only outcome is people thinking we are playing the victim. Whilst i do completely agree that the offence is pretty minor we were still guilty of it and admitted as such so whining about how much money it's cost in legal fees is pretty embarrassing, 

That's exactly what we are doing. Suck it up and shove it down their throats on the pitch. Don't whine about legal fees and faux concern for local businesses because of the actions you caused.

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Miltonaggro]

52 minutes ago, trousers said:

And, lo and behold, here's the predictable / understandable reactions from fans of other clubs... Definitely another own goal imo... Please tell me we haven't gone back to seeking advice from our original lawyers...?

 

 

Fuck me, I wouldn’t employ that gurning simpleton to run a bath. 

[Teamsaint1]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course they are. It's just you can't not sack him knowing the risk of a possible ban and then get upset at the prospect of the ban. We knew this could happen when we decided not to sack him.

Well they were damned if they do etc.Maybe they didn't have grounds to sack him with the inevitable compensation and hoped , perhaps reasonably, that the FA punishment would be a slap on the wrist given the previous sanctions. None of us know.

 

Maybe they should have kept their eye on the ball, sacked TE anyway,  kept Archer and not blown  £9m on Dobbin, to help  pay for the compensation  

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not relevant and we've been through this all already. We did the crime, got caught and were punished for it. Personally I think the punishment was harsh but I can also see why they did it. 

Of course it's relevant because I'm responding to a post citing that fans from other clubs have criticised us. I'm pointing out that it's a certainty that some of those fans clubs have done the same thing whether those fans admit it or not. It's a fact acknowledged numerous times by people within the game one of who I know and trust.