The Burnham Years - Can the new(ish) broom sweep clean?

[iansums]

35 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So, 0.48% of property value - would you be better or worse off?

Me, personally, it depends on how they calculate the value. On current value, we'd be far worse off as we've invested nearly £400k in our property over the past 4 years, but if it's done based on the past purchase price in 2019, then we'll be about the same as current Council Tax charges.

Feels completely fair as people with a £250k property in Blackpool pay the same as someone in a £2.5m property in Westminster.

Amazing how much loose change you can find in the back of the sofa.

[badgerx16]

37 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So, 0.48% of property value - would you be better or worse off?

 

Our Council Tax would be less than half of what it currently is !

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, iansums said:

Amazing how much loose change you can find in the back of the sofa.

His 'charge' will sky rocket once the cycle of property valuations kick in (3 yearly?)

In places like Blackpool (often used as an example), where property prices are very low. How will it work if the majority, probably a significant majority, have their council tax slashed....will their bins still be collected, will there be enough money for the endless HMOs?

Edited 3 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Farmer Saint]

38 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His 'charge' will sky rocket once the cycle of property valuations kick in (3 yearly?)

In places like Blackpool (often used as an example), where property prices are very low. How will it work if the majority, probably a significant majority, have their council tax slashed....will their bins still be collected, will there be enough money for the endless HMOs?

It won't sky rocket by any means, it will increase though.

[Farmer Saint]

45 minutes ago, iansums said:

Amazing how much loose change you can find in the back of the sofa.

What's the relevance of this comment?

[badgerx16]

47 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

His 'charge' will sky rocket once the cycle of property valuations kick in (3 yearly?)

In places like Blackpool (often used as an example), where property prices are very low. How will it work if the majority, probably a significant majority, have their council tax slashed....will their bins still be collected, will there be enough money for the endless HMOs?

Blackpool has plenty of higher value propeties to balance out the central cess pits, plus when the new Unitary is formed by merging with Fylde and Wyre, the town will be subsidised by places such as St Annes, Lytham, Cleveleys, Poulton, and Garstang. ( Though Fleetwood would drag it back down a bit ).

Edited 2 hours ago by badgerx16

[tdmickey3]

Not true' Burnham looking at scrapping council tax or stamp duty, says No 10

Suggestions that plans to scrap and replace council tax or stamp duty are "under active consideration" are "not true", Number 10 has said. 

It follows the i Paper reporting that Andy Burnham is looking at changing the system to an annual house-price tax.

But asked about this report this morning, the PM's spokesperson slapped it down, calling the suggestion "not true".

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Not true' Burnham looking at scrapping council tax or stamp duty, says No 10

Suggestions that plans to scrap and replace council tax or stamp duty are "under active consideration" are "not true", Number 10 has said. 

It follows the i Paper reporting that Andy Burnham is looking at changing the system to an annual house-price tax.

But asked about this report this morning, the PM's spokesperson slapped it down, calling the suggestion "not true".

Oh well, not worth discussing then.

[iansums]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What's the relevance of this comment?

No relevance at all, just my poor attempt at humour.

[Sir Ralph]

Isnt Council tax a charge for services though. What does it have to do with the value of the property. If you have a 5 bed in blackpool or london why do you rely more on services if you are in london, rather than blackpool? Hopefully they dont bring it in.

Transitional arrangements would be required as if you have already paid stamp duty you shouldnt have to pay this and it would catch too many pensioners otherwise that couldnt afford it. My Council tax would double to just shy of 5 figures annually. It would be a joke if it was brought in, just another way of taxing those who have worked hard. The statement after it was batted down by the spokesman was that the chancellor would be taking a view on all matters.

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Isnt Council tax a charge for services though. What does it have to do with the value of the property. If you have a 5 bed in blackpool or london why do you rely more on services if you are in london, rather than blackpool? Hopefully they dont bring it in. Transitional arrangements would be required as if you have already paid council tax you shouldnt have to pay this and it would catch too many pensioners otherwise that couldnt afford it. My Council tax would double to just shy of 5 figures annually. It would be a joke if it was brought in, just another way of taxing those who have worked hard. The statement after it was batted down by the spokesman was that the chancellor would be taking a view on all matters.

So all taxes should be flat rate and take no account of income? It’s about what you get back?

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

So all taxes should be flat rate and take no account of income? It’s about what you get back?

This is about council tax. What is the purpose of Council tax?

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

This is about council tax. What is the purpose of Council tax?

To contribute to the cost of local govt. Surprised you don’t know this?

[The Kraken]

Yeah bring back poll tax, that was much better.

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

To contribute to the cost of local govt. Surprised you don’t know this?

Yes for local public infrastructure that we use such as rubbish and recycling, street lighting, libraries, police and fire funding etc. My genuine question is why is it that Council tax could now be based on national values? Does somebody in a 5 bed house in Blackpool use less or more infrastructure than someone in a 5 bed in london? My understanding is that with this new tax my money would go to fund infrastrucutre in other area, not in my local area. Why? It is irrelevant to mitigating my public infrastructure usage footprint as its in a completely different area. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[iansums]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

To contribute to the cost of local govt. Surprised you don’t know this?

And you don't get any extra local government services by having a larger (more expensive) property.

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Yes for local public infrastructure that we use such as rubbish and recycling, street lighting, libraries, police and fire funding etc. My genuine question is why is it that Council tax could now be based on national values? Does somebody in a 5 bed house in Blackpool use less or more infrastructure than someone in a 5 bed in london? My understanding is that with this new tax my money would go to fund infrastrucutre in other area, not in my local area. Why? It is irrelevant to mitigating my public infrastructure usage footprint as its in a completely different area. 

Public services are far more expensive to administer in London though, you're aware of that aren't you?

[iansums]

10 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Yeah bring back poll tax, that was much better.

Possibly, the fairest system of all. Everybody benefits from local government so everybody (of working age) should pay. I understand this won't happen of course, the government will be trying to squeeze more money out of those who can afford it.

[whelk]

Fucking hell the level of argument is beyond comedy. 

[Sir Ralph]

 

 

Just now, whelk said:

Fucking hell the level of argument is beyond comedy. 

Why?

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh well, not worth discussing then.

Wont stop Ralphy boy banging on and on though

[whelk]

Maybe single people should pay 5 times less tax than someone with a family of 5. More people to defend so should be contributing proportionally to the defence budget. Maybe let them off any tax that contributes to education as well?

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, whelk said:

Maybe single people should pay 5 times less tax than someone with a family of 5. More people to defend so should be contributing proportionally to the defence budget. Maybe let them off any tax that contributes to education as well?

Taxation for selfish cunts. Wish they'd all piss off to Dubai with their fake mates.

[whelk]

12 minutes ago, iansums said:

And you don't get any extra local government services by having a larger (more expensive) property.

You do realise no one has made this argument ever? It’s a wealth assessment, albeit quite flawed

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Maybe single people should pay 5 times less tax than someone with a family of 5. More people to defend so should be contributing proportionally to the defence budget. Maybe let them off any tax that contributes to education as well?

Income tax already has a scale whereby if you earn more you pay more tax.

In terms of Council tax this is for paying for local public infrastrucure. you havent answered why somebody in a 5 bed in London should pay the same as someone in Blackpool in a 5 bed property (who benefits from a lower cost of living) and that money doesnt go to the local area that the larger council tax payer lives in. 

[iansums]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

You do realise no one has made this argument ever? It’s a wealth assessment, albeit quite flawed

a) How would you know? and b) I just did. I'm just making a point.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Taxation for selfish cunts. Wish they'd all piss off to Dubai with their fake mates.

And they are off. The 'centrists' who cant sensibly debate anything. You have an anger issue. Seek therapy.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, iansums said:

a) How would you know? and b) I just did. I'm just making a point.

I've heard this argument been made a number of times. Its just different to the current approach but doesnt mean its wrong. This forum seems to have an issue with anyone who makes a suggestion which goes against the grain of the 'centrists' that have hijacked it.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, iansums said:

a) How would you know? and b) I just did. I'm just making a point.

Well intelligent people. As you live in a bigger house you need to contribute more to child social care as you will use it more isn’t a line anyone has pedalled to my knowledge 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I've heard this argument been made a number of times. Its just different to the current approach but doesnt mean its wrong. This forum seems to have an issue with anyone who makes a suggestion which goes against the grain of the 'centrists' that have hijacked it.

 

Made by dim people who want to pay less yes. I don’t think it is a great system btw but saying I only use this so should pay that is no basis of a taxation system for society

[egg]

29 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Yes for local public infrastructure that we use such as rubbish and recycling, street lighting, libraries, police and fire funding etc. My genuine question is why is it that Council tax could now be based on national values? Does somebody in a 5 bed house in Blackpool use less or more infrastructure than someone in a 5 bed in london? My understanding is that with this new tax my money would go to fund infrastrucutre in other area, not in my local area. Why? It is irrelevant to mitigating my public infrastructure usage footprint as its in a completely different area. 

The current system is based on historic rateable value. The new idea being floated is based on an updated rateable value. 

The concept is well established. 

What do you propose instead? No flannel please, just your proposal. 

[Sir Ralph]

 

11 minutes ago, egg said:

The current system is based on historic rateable value. The new idea being floated is based on an updated rateable value. 

The concept is well established. 

What do you propose instead? No flannel please, just your proposal. 

You can have a local property tax based on local values - update the values if you want to. Have a tax that reflects the cost of local services and spend the money on local services. This appears to be a central taxation strategy for redistribution nationally which has littlebearing on local matters (sort of contrary to Burnham's proposals for devolution) under the badge of a local property tax. We already have income tax which does that job.

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph