Global Warming?

[GenevaSaint]

As far as I'm concerned, a precautionary principle should guide us... i.e. if there are concerns that our actions are causing harm then we should do everything within our power to prevent that harm occurring.

 

"Better to be safe than sorry" never seemed more apt!

[Minty]

Quite. But apparently point scoring and money-making is more important to many people... Shame really, but that is ultimately what will probably f*ck our race up.

[St Landrew]

I gave up trying to talk to George ages ago, when it was clear that he was unwilling to discuss my points, unless he could respond with charts and facts to abuse me or anyone who has concerns. I said then, and I maintain now, that I am open to any and all information on the subject. My sole point throughout was simply that despite all the science, no one actually knows exactly what is happening and what will happen, therefore to make judgements one way or the other is extremely blinkered IMO... but George seemed intent on only denouncing anything or anyone who expressed perfectly legitimate concerns for the future of our race.

 

As far as I'm concerned, a precautionary principle should guide us... i.e. if there are concerns that our actions are causing harm then we should do everything within our power to prevent that harm occurring.

 

My feeling exactly. And followed, perhaps by the wisest words anyone has written on this entire thread, and perhaps the entire forum.

[TopGun]

I am working currently with Drax Power who produce 7% of the UK's electricity from coal mostly and are the largest carbon emitters in the UK by some distance.

 

It's interesting to note that even they as a FTSE100 company recognise their operations have an effect on the climate and they are working to reduce those effects.

 

http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_r...climatechange/

 

Stick that in yer pipe Stanley and George :-)

[St Landrew]

I am working currently with Drax Power who produce 7% of the UK's electricity from coal mostly and are the largest carbon emitters in the UK by some distance.

 

It's interesting to note that even they as a FTSE100 company recognise their operations have an effect on the climate and they are working to reduce those effects.

 

http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_r...climatechange/

 

Stick that in yer pipe Stanley and George :-)

 

TG, can you get [Drax] them to look at this..?

 

http://www.absalutecology.com/home.html

 

It's a way of scrubbing the industrial flue emssions so that there is practically nothing but ordinary atmosphere being emitted. The Germans and Americans know lots about this, but the authorities in this country know sod all, and they shake their heads wondering what they can do to cut down on pollutents in a world where coal is being seen as a viable alternative again.

[TopGun]

TG, can you get [Drax] them to look at this..?

 

http://www.absalutecology.com/home.html

 

It's a way of scrubbing the industrial flue emssions so that there is practically nothing but ordinary atmosphere being emitted. The Germans and Americans know lots about this, but the authorities in this country know sod all, and they shake their heads wondering what they can do to cut down on pollutents in a world where coal is being seen as a viable alternative again.

 

Scrubbing emissions with flue technology is critical to the future operation of any coal fired power station in the EU. If FGSE (for sulphur dioxide) has not been fitted to any plant by now it is only allowed a further 20,000 hours of active energy production life until 2015 or it will be closed anyway. So it's not being bothered with for older coal-and oil-fired plants that are due for retirement such as Fawley (and many others).

 

For local reference purposes, Fawley is not a baseload power station even now, it just gets called on in peak times. Oil is too expensive compared with coal and gas to run a power plant even if it is next door to an oil terminal. Oil powered power plants are also far more polluting than coal ones per energy unit output because of the levels of emitted gases involved in both processes and operations.

 

On the upside, Fawley only produces 1,000MW at capacity and the new gas-powered Marchwood station that will come on stream in the next two years will also make nearly 1,000MW but far more efficiently and will be baseload to the Grid as a consequence. Theoretically, cheaper electricity to Soton.

 

 

I need to consider what your fellers there are discussing as it is not clear what gases may be scrubbed and how St Landrew.

Edited 29 March, 2009 by TopGun

[Saint George]

Yet another well respected geoscientist/climatologist speaks out against 'Man made' global warming theories

 

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Pratt-TheProfessionalEdge119.pdf

 

The eco fanatics and the dim and the gullible would do well to listen to this guy....They may even begin to realise they've been sat on the 'short bus' for a good while now

 

 

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My carbon footprint is bigger than yours P'

[badgerx16]

Yet another well respected geoscientist/climatologist speaks out against 'Man made' global warming theories

 

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Pratt-TheProfessionalEdge119.pdf

 

The eco fanatics and the dim and the gullible would do well to listen to this guy....They may even begin to realise they've been sat on the 'short bus' for a good while now

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My carbon footprint is bigger than yours P'

 

Oh, hello cracked record, so you are still around then ? I was getting worried

[TopGun]

Yet another well respected geoscientist/climatologist speaks out against 'Man made' global warming theories

 

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Pratt-TheProfessionalEdge119.pdf

 

The eco fanatics and the dim and the gullible would do well to listen to this guy....They may even begin to realise they've been sat on the 'short bus' for a good while now

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My carbon footprint is bigger than yours P'

 

 

Obviously I'm aware that you think I'm an eco fanatic George. However the work I'm doing currently with Drax Power is interesting. As a FTSE company and operators of the coal-fired Drax Power Station that is the largest power plant in the UK at 4,200MW capacity which generally supplies 7% of the UK's power (although it can go to 10% if required) Drax fully recognises climate change and how fossil fuels add to that. As a consequence they are working to upgrade operations to reduce carbon emissions at the plant by 17% as well as investing in new biomass plants they wish to develop.

 

From the Drax website at http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_responsibility/climatechange/

 

We believe that it is imperative that we deliver measured responses, based on sound economics, to the challenges presented by climate change.

 

We fully understand the threat and support the move towards a low carbon economy. However, we are mindful that in order to make this transition, the country must have a stable and secure energy supply if growth and prosperity are to be sustained.

 

We have an important part to play in managing this transition and delivering a low carbon future. The central theme in our submission to the Government’s Energy Review was about improving our environmental performance to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2). We now need to combine the security of supply benefits of coal-fired generation with environmental improvements.

 

We understand the threat of climate change and know that we will only have a future if we positively address our environmental performance. In making the transition to a low carbon economy, the UK will require a stable and buoyant economy to fund the necessary changes, fundamental to which is a secure energy supply. We have an important part to play in managing this transition and we are keen to play our part in delivering a low carbon future.

Edited 13 April, 2009 by TopGun

[Saint George]

Obviously I'm aware that you think I'm an eco fanatic George. However the work I'm doing currently with Drax Power is interesting. As a FTSE company and operators of the coal-fired Drax Power Station that is the largest power plant in the UK at 4,200MW capacity which generally supplies 7% of the UK's power (although it can go to 10% if required) Drax fully recognises climate change and how fossil fuels add to that. As a consequence they are working to upgrade operations to reduce carbon emissions at the plant by 17% as well as investing in new biomass plants they wish to develop.

 

From the Drax website at http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_responsibility/climatechange/

 

We believe that it is imperative that we deliver measured responses, based on sound economics, to the challenges presented by climate change.

 

We fully understand the threat and support the move towards a low carbon economy. However, we are mindful that in order to make this transition, the country must have a stable and secure energy supply if growth and prosperity are to be sustained.

 

We have an important part to play in managing this transition and delivering a low carbon future. The central theme in our submission to the Government’s Energy Review was about improving our environmental performance to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2). We now need to combine the security of supply benefits of coal-fired generation with environmental improvements.

 

We understand the threat of climate change and know that we will only have a future if we positively address our environmental performance. In making the transition to a low carbon economy, the UK will require a stable and buoyant economy to fund the necessary changes, fundamental to which is a secure energy supply. We have an important part to play in managing this transition and we are keen to play our part in delivering a low carbon future.

 

Just pandering to the eco terrorists over there.....Its clear they see them as a real threat.....Can't say i blame them, since the headbangers had the green light from the left wing judiciary a few months back.

 

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Man, my carbon footprint's HUGE!!!

[Saint George]

Obviously I'm aware that you think I'm an eco fanatic George. However the work I'm doing currently with Drax Power is interesting. As a FTSE company and operators of the coal-fired Drax Power Station that is the largest power plant in the UK at 4,200MW capacity which generally supplies 7% of the UK's power (although it can go to 10% if required) Drax fully recognises climate change and how fossil fuels add to that. As a consequence they are working to upgrade operations to reduce carbon emissions at the plant by 17% as well as investing in new biomass plants they wish to develop.

 

From the Drax website at http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_responsibility/climatechange/

 

We believe that it is imperative that we deliver measured responses, based on sound economics, to the challenges presented by climate change.

 

We fully understand the threat and support the move towards a low carbon economy. However, we are mindful that in order to make this transition, the country must have a stable and secure energy supply if growth and prosperity are to be sustained.

 

We have an important part to play in managing this transition and delivering a low carbon future. The central theme in our submission to the Government’s Energy Review was about improving our environmental performance to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2). We now need to combine the security of supply benefits of coal-fired generation with environmental improvements.

 

We understand the threat of climate change and know that we will only have a future if we positively address our environmental performance. In making the transition to a low carbon economy, the UK will require a stable and buoyant economy to fund the necessary changes, fundamental to which is a secure energy supply. We have an important part to play in managing this transition and we are keen to play our part in delivering a low carbon future.

 

Well thats ****ed that up before it even started lol......No surprise there

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[TopGun]

Just pandering to the eco terrorists over there.....Its clear they see them as a real threat.....Can't say i blame them, since the headbangers had the green light from the left wing judiciary a few months back.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Man, my carbon footprint's HUGE!!!

 

There's a delicious irony there George.

 

And this will be the same left wing establishment that pre-empted a demonstration today at Eon's Ratcliffe power station by incarcerating 114 protesters before they even got underway, I take it?

[Wade Garrett]

I'd love some warmer weather after the last couple of crap Summer's we've had.

 

Global Warming my arse.

[benjii]

I'd love some warmer weather after the last couple of crap Summer's we've had.

 

Global Warming my arse.

 

+1.

[Saint George]

There's a delicious irony there George.

 

And this will be the same left wing establishment that pre-empted a demonstration today at Eon's Ratcliffe power station by incarcerating 114 protesters before they even got underway, I take it?

 

 

And this is where eco freaks like you and St Landrew etc are headed along with the dim and gulible ......."When asked if flying to Spain was as bad as knifing a person in the street, Ms Lucas said: ‘Yes - because they are dying from climate change."...... http://’http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1169862/Air-travel-bad-stabbing-person-street-says-MEP.html

 

Have fun with it y'all

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Carbon Footprint for 04/08 - 04/09 = 39 tonnes .........Man, thats doing a lot to help the World food shortage.........Aiming for 50t this year http://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx

[badgerx16]

the dim and gulible /quote]

 

A perfect way to describe the 'heads up their own @rses' brigade who simply put greed and avarice above all else, and deny the 'inconvenient truth'.

 

Oh, and there are two 'l's in gullible, but as you are in USofA I accept that spelling English words might be beyond you :cool:

[Saint George]

Mwahahaha......Oh the irony....http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8034027.stm

 

A ****ing 'OIL' Tanker! lol

 

PS...Seems our resident Windy Miller maybe looking for a new job soon......http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/28/haverigg-turbines-nuclear-power-plant

 

 

PPS Oh dear....Looks like someone got something a little wrong somewhere ...But hey!....some of us knew that already

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Help end the World food shortage....Increase your carbon footprint today!

[Saint George]

Oh dear...The IPCC and its whack job 'man made' climate change theorys continue to fall deeper into the abyss.....http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/mike_hulme_interview/

 

But at least we know who some of the dim and gulible are, who were blindly led down the path to 'stupid'.......

 

.....................................................................................................................

Leaving l's out of words like 'gulible', to give the 'dim and gulible' somethin to feel les 'stupid' about

[TopGun]

Oh dear...The IPCC and its whack job 'man made' climate change theorys continue to fall deeper into the abyss.....http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/mike_hulme_interview/

 

But at least we know who some of the dim and gulible are, who were blindly led down the path to 'stupid'.......

 

.....................................................................................................................

Leaving l's out of words like 'gulible', to give the 'dim and gulible' somethin to feel les 'stupid' about

 

 

Suit yourself George. Go look like more of a tit.

[badgerx16]

Suit yourself George. Go look like more of a tit.

Is it possible

[badgerx16]

Leaving l's out of words like 'gulible', to give the 'dim and gulible' somethin to feel les 'stupid' about

As prats go, you are certainly 'king size'.

[Minty]

Oh dear...The IPCC and its whack job 'man made' climate change theorys continue to fall deeper into the abyss.....http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/mike_hulme_interview/

Two things:

 

1) If you read that, what it actually says is that the reliance on 'climate science' alone to give us the 'facts' is dangerous. He says that by relying on science to the degree that politicians and others do, people are expecting too much... I actually agree. People on both sides of the argument, usually politicians and others who prefer to deal in black and white, rather than realising there are hundreds of shades of grey, point at graphs and figures and treat it as gospel, claiming that one disproves the other or vice versa, in order to be 'right' or 'wrong'. (Ring any bells George?)

 

But Science is about learning and exploring, not necessaily knowing all the facts, and so it provides a basis for our own evolution according to it's ongoing findings, and as science evolves, so does our learning and our evolution accordingly(if we take the learning on board, something the human race isn't too good at).

 

Science is undoubtedly helpful but on subjects like this, where there is so much still to learn, it is very dangerous to expect it to provide finite answers.

 

2) Is there anyone who is more ignorant and belittling than you George? Someone whose sole tactic is to abuse others who don't share your view? I know I've repeated this point in the past, but I think it's worth repeating again. There is so much we don't know, and probably never will in our lifetime... your metaphorical stance of 'la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you' with your fingers in your ears, beggars belief IMO. Quite sad really.

 

I'll leave you with these:

 

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"

 

"A wise man changes his mind. A fool never."

[GenevaSaint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11841368

[dune]

I don't believe a word of the man made global warming crap.

[GenevaSaint]

I don't believe a word of the man made global warming crap.

 

Just thought we should have some more ill-informed debate on the subject, it's been a few months since the last one!

[Minty]

Just thought we should have some more ill-informed debate on the subject, it's been a few months since the last one!

A few? This thread is 18 months old!

[GenevaSaint]

A few? This thread is 18 months old!

 

Well there are quite a few Minty (threads), this was the longest I could find and I gave you the honour of the last word ;-)

[dune]

A few? This thread is 18 months old!

 

Exactly we're all entrenched in our views are now. MMGW is an old story that's best just forgotten. Time to move on to the next fad.

[toofarnorth]

Strange. I thought last winter was the coldest for donkeys years and I definately didn't notice this summer as anything special. When you add in the fact that we may now be gearing up fr another cold winter it does seem bizarre.

[dune]

Strange. I thought last winter was the coldest for donkeys years and I definately didn't notice this summer as anything special. When you add in the fact that we may now be gearing up fr another cold winter it does seem bizarre.

 

It's called nature.

 

The left wingers simply cannot get their heads around this.

[badgerx16]

It's called nature.

 

The left wingers simply cannot get their heads around this.

Get back to the Flat Earth Society forums.

 

[JackFrost]

Obviously I'm aware that you think I'm an eco fanatic George. However the work I'm doing currently with Drax Power is interesting. As a FTSE company and operators of the coal-fired Drax Power Station that is the largest power plant in the UK at 4,200MW capacity which generally supplies 7% of the UK's power (although it can go to 10% if required) Drax fully recognises climate change and how fossil fuels add to that. As a consequence they are working to upgrade operations to reduce carbon emissions at the plant by 17% as well as investing in new biomass plants they wish to develop.

 

From the Drax website at http://www.draxpower.com/corporate_responsibility/climatechange/

 

We believe that it is imperative that we deliver measured responses, based on sound economics, to the challenges presented by climate change.

 

We fully understand the threat and support the move towards a low carbon economy. However, we are mindful that in order to make this transition, the country must have a stable and secure energy supply if growth and prosperity are to be sustained.

 

We have an important part to play in managing this transition and delivering a low carbon future. The central theme in our submission to the Government’s Energy Review was about improving our environmental performance to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2). We now need to combine the security of supply benefits of coal-fired generation with environmental improvements.

 

We understand the threat of climate change and know that we will only have a future if we positively address our environmental performance. In making the transition to a low carbon economy, the UK will require a stable and buoyant economy to fund the necessary changes, fundamental to which is a secure energy supply. We have an important part to play in managing this transition and we are keen to play our part in delivering a low carbon future.

 

Didn't they try and destroy the Earth in the 70s when they appeared in Moonraker?

[dune]

Get back to the Flat Earth Society forums.

 

 

And you rely on Left Wing made up dossiers. The tide has turned and more and more people are realising that MMGW is a lie.

[Minty]

As I said 18 months ago:

 

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"

 

We simply don't know for certain if, and to what extent, GW is or is not man-made, and so to close your mind to *any* possibility is dangerous IMO. I believe it is, but I fully accept I might be wrong and applaud any efforts to learn more about the issue.

 

Personally, I would rather focus on the wider issue of human sustainability, which means taking into consideration peak oil, food security, biodiversity and other issues as well as the climate...

[thefunkygibbons]

Regardless of belief or not

 

The elephant in the room is population

 

Something that cannot carry on forever, one day must stop - Warren Buffett

[Minty]

Regardless of belief or not

 

The elephant in the room is population

 

Something that cannot carry on forever, one day must stop - Warren Buffett

 

Yes indeed, add that to my list. The combination of all those issues will dictate our future far more than economic growth ever will.

[dune]

As I said 18 months ago:

 

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"

 

We simply don't know for certain if, and to what extent, GW is or is not man-made, and so to close your mind to *any* possibility is dangerous IMO. I believe it is, but I fully accept I might be wrong and applaud any efforts to learn more about the issue.

 

Personally, I would rather focus on the wider issue of human sustainability, which means taking into consideration peak oil, food security, biodiversity and other issues as well as the climate...

 

It all boils down to survival of the fittest. Medical advances have taken away natures balance, but eventually the human race will sucumb. Voting Labour will only accelerate the process.

[badgerx16]

It all boils down to survival of the fittest. Medical advances have taken away natures balance, but eventually the human race will sucumb. Voting Labour will only accelerate the process.

How ?

Surely the US voting for Sarah Palin in 2012 is a far quicker route to Armageddon ?

[Jones91]

its just a tax

[dune]

its just a tax

 

Correct. It fitted in perfectly with the left wing ideology.

[badgerx16]

Correct. It fitted in perfectly with the left wing ideology.

I suppose if this conversation were happening in the 1950s you would claim that the London smogs were just a 'natural' occurrence.

[dune]

I suppose if this conversation were happening in the 1950s you would claim that the London smogs were just a 'natural' occurrence.

 

Oh dear.

[Jonnyboy]

Strange. I thought last winter was the coldest for donkeys years and I definately didn't notice this summer as anything special. When you add in the fact that we may now be gearing up fr another cold winter it does seem bizarre.

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/britain-trapped-under-two-feet-of-global-warming-bull****-201011253286/

[Sheaf Saint]

Strange. I thought last winter was the coldest for donkeys years and I definately didn't notice this summer as anything special. When you add in the fact that we may now be gearing up fr another cold winter it does seem bizarre.

 

Just do a google search on the gulf stream and how it affects the climate of the British Isles, and then you will understand how if the planet warms up, the UK will actually get colder.

[Sheaf Saint]

Correct. It fitted in perfectly with the left wing ideology.

 

That may be true dune, but to ignore all of the research and claim that the whole thing is a lie just because of this would be a display of extreme ignorance and stupidity. But then, that's exactly what I have come to expect from you: never let the facts get in the way of a good rant about socialism.

[Joensuu]

Why do some of you seem to hate science so much? Why not simply accept that the theory is currently science's best interpretation of the avaliable evidence?

 

Politics certainly don't drive the process of scientific method. People who disagree with an established scientific theory, without having a solid scientific reason for doing so, are almost certainly influenced by a non-scientific agenda. Often, it's because their personal political views prevent them from accepting the established science, and not because they have evidence of a more accurate interpretation of the evidence.

 

In short, unless you are working at the forefront of climate science, if you disagree with the current established theory of Anthropogenic Climate Change, you are in the same breath disagreeing with the process of Scientific Method.

[badgerx16]

Oh dear.

Am I right ?

[aintforever]

Why do some of you seem to hate science so much? Why not simply accept that the theory is currently science's best interpretation of the avaliable evidence?

 

Politics certainly don't drive the process of scientific method. People who disagree with an established scientific theory, without having a solid scientific reason for doing so, are almost certainly influenced by a non-scientific agenda. Often, it's because their personal political views prevent them from accepting the established science, and not because they have evidence of a more accurate interpretation of the evidence.

 

In short, unless you are working at the forefront of climate science, if you disagree with the current established theory of Anthropogenic Climate Change, you are in the same breath disagreeing with the process of Scientific Method.

 

The scientists obviously know better than us about what is going on but their record for prediction is not very impressive.

 

I'm starting to not give a ****e about climate change. I agree with the consensus, CO2 is warming the planet, it will be disastrous for some countries, but I don't give a **** because it's freezing in England, I would prefer it a couple of degrees warmer.

[Deppo]

Yet another well respected geoscientist/climatologist speaks out against 'Man made' global warming theories

 

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Pratt-TheProfessionalEdge119.pdf

 

the dim and the gullible would do well to listen to this guy....

 

I believe they already are.

[buctootim]

My favourite part from the St George article. Tells you all you need to know.

 

"Readers who might want to learn more about the issues could start with the series of articles by A.Neil Hutton, P.Geol., Ph.D. being published in The Reservoir, the monthly newsletter of the Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists."