Why was Saga shipped out to Aalborg?

[Mole]

Saganowski said: ‘At the start of the season, it was a big disappointment to have to leave the club because of the politics involved. I made a good choice with Aalborg because I got to play Champions League football, but now I am back and I want to show people who did not believe in me what I am capable of.

 

‘I love playing here, the fans have always been supportive of me and they know even when I do not play well, I have always given my heart to the club. I want to play here and I want to keep this football club in the Championship.’

 

When Saga talks of "the politics involved" it can be interpretted in many ways.

[pilsburydoughboy]

Rupert.

[trousers]

Barclays Bank plc

[Mole]

Rupert.

 

Without a doubt, but was it a financial decision of Lowes or a personal decision of Lowes?

[miserableoldgit]

Saganowski said: ‘At the start of the season, it was a big disappointment to have to leave the club because of the politics involved. I made a good choice with Aalborg because I got to play Champions League football, but now I am back and I want to show people who did not believe in me what I am capable of.

 

‘I love playing here, the fans have always been supportive of me and they know even when I do not play well, I have always given my heart to the club. I want to play here and I want to keep this football club in the Championship.’

 

When Saga talks of "the politics involved" it can be interpretted in many ways.

 

I read somewhere recently (can`t remember where) that he went because Rupert and JP were convinced that the team would be successful with just the fantastic young players the the club had produced. We didn`t need expensive, experienced players.

[Mole]

I read somewhere recently (can`t remember where) that he went because Rupert and JP were convinced that the team would be successful with just the fantastic young players the the club had produced. We didn`t need expensive, experienced players.

 

"Rupert and JP were convinced that the team would be successful with just the fantastic young players"

 

I would imagine it was more a case of Rupert dictating on football matters and JP not wanting to rock the boat. So if we are relegated this season (and it is still looking likely despite two good results) it will be entirely Lowes fault.

 

If Saga had been playing for us all season i don't think we'd be in our current position and i doubt there's many who'd disagree with this.

[hamster]

I read somewhere recently (can`t remember where) that he went because Rupert and JP were convinced that .....

 

 

To be fair, Jan would have been convinced that black was white if rupert told him that it was.

 

Many (like me) fell for the romantic dream of beautiful football, but that's a fans perogative, I don't get paid to be a fan, Rupert and co are paid to make good football decisions and they ****ed up.

 

If it is true what I read and hear about Wotte telling Rupert to keep his ruddy nose out of the dressing room and to stay away from all 'football' maters, then I predict good things for all comncerned.

[Saint Bones]

Actually Saga is a way better duck shooter then Rupert.

 

Not to be outdone he sent him away during shooting season.

 

Dinkum !

[BadgerBadger]

When you read how much we spent on agent fees getting in some fringe players makes you think how much of that quarter of a million could have been better spent kepping Rasiak/John/Saga in the team.

 

Still have to pinch myslef that these players are still on our books but not playing for us - realise the financials and all that but it took along time to realise we need that experience to keep in mix. recent results show that the experiment was misconceved and badly managed

[alpine_saint]

If it is true what I read and hear about Wotte telling Rupert to keep his ruddy nose out of the dressing room and to stay away from all 'football' maters, then I predict good things for all comncerned.

 

If it is true that Wotte has done that, he will have gone up a mile in my estimate of him.

[alpine_saint]

When you read how much we spent on agent fees getting in some fringe players makes you think how much of that quarter of a million could have been better spent kepping Rasiak/John/Saga in the team.

 

 

I read something on here yesterday in relation to agents fees and Plymouth.

 

Is it really true we've spent 250grand on agents fees ?

 

Jesus, this makes it clear shipping out Saga and co was nothing but politics and ego, nothing to do with money.

[sidthesquid]

You just start a post like this every other day, don't you.

He went because someone was prepared to take him & as he spent the last half of last season away too at the time it was not considered too big an issue

Don't keep trying to rewrite history

[Lazlo78]

Because it's such a nice place!..... Really, it is ;-)

[alpine_saint]

He went because someone was prepared to take him & as he spent the last half of last season away too at the time it was not considered too big an issue

Don't keep trying to rewrite history

 

Methinks it is you re-writing history, since I cannot recall Saga going on loan last season. Apologies if I have made a mistake...

[Andoverian]

"Rupert and JP were convinced that the team would be successful with just the fantastic young players"

 

I would imagine it was more a case of Rupert dictating on football matters and JP not wanting to rock the boat. So if we are relegated this season (and it is still looking likely despite two good results) it will be entirely Lowes fault.

 

If Saga had been playing for us all season i don't think we'd be in our current position and i doubt there's many who'd disagree with this.

 

I certainly wouldn't disagree. The most amazing thing is, not that Portleit has gone but that the architect of our demise is still around.

[InvictaSaint]

If it is true that Wotte has done that, he will have gone up a mile in my estimate of him.

 

Given what he has already allowed us to see his of personality, I can well imagine Wotte telling Rupert to feck off!

[SaintRobbie]

I certainly wouldn't disagree. The most amazing thing is, not that Portleit has gone but that the architect of our demise is still around.

 

Correct - and MUST be removed for this club to unite and progress. Keep protesting against Lowe and Wilde. Its accountability time!

[eurosaint]

The Saga loan was one of many atrocious footballing decisions that Rupesy has made this season !

The premise that saving a few bob on proven players wages is better than plummeting towards the 3rd division is baffling to me !

(For those who are about to say that we had no choice) I would point out that the total cost of Smith, Gasmi, Robertson, Pekhart, Pulis etc.. must equate at least to Saga's package and in the end 'quality is better than quantity' !!!

[del boy]

 

When Saga talks of "the politics involved" it can be interpretted in many ways.

 

It can be mis-interpreted in many ways

[Viking Warrior]

Stanley

 

what is wrong with you.

 

We win yesterday and your still not happy, instead you are looking to open

up yet another inquest, this time its about sagga.

Why don't you join forces with Keith Wiseman , you two seem to be a match in heaven or at least on the coroners slab:cool:

[Saint Martini]

I certainly wouldn't disagree. The most amazing thing is, not that Portleit has gone but that the architect of our demise is still around.

 

Its not that amazing is it? Since Rupes and buddies hold enoughof the shares to be their own bosses its quite logical they didn't fire themselves.

[sidthesquid]

Methinks it is you re-writing history, since I cannot recall Saga going on loan last season. Apologies if I have made a mistake...

 

I think you are right - he just played like he'd gone on loan (14 games + 15 as sub for 3 goals). My point was that losing him at the start of the season didn't seem as big an issue as it might now with the benefit of hindsight

[alpine_saint]

I think you are right - he just played like he'd gone on loan (14 games + 15 as sub for 3 goals). My point was that losing him at the start of the season didn't seem as big an issue as it might now with the benefit of hindsight

 

Yes, but once again, you are forgetting that he was being f**ked about by Mr. Motivator........

[Whitey Grandad]

I think you are right - he just played like he'd gone on loan (14 games + 15 as sub for 3 goals). My point was that losing him at the start of the season didn't seem as big an issue as it might now with the benefit of hindsight

At the start of the season I seem to remember most people on here saying that they could understand why we were loaning out our first-choice front men but that we would be all right so long as we held on to Stern John. Then he went too and the rest is history.

[sidthesquid]

At the start of the season I seem to remember most people on here saying that they could understand why we were loaning out our first-choice front men but that we would be all right so long as we held on to Stern John. Then he went too and the rest is history.

 

I agree that letting all three go was careless to say the least, but I still think the failure to get Euell, Thomas and particularly Skacel, who looked like he was going for £million, off the books forced their hand somewhat when they got an offer for John

[Guan 2.0]

Why was Saga shipped out to Aalborg?

You've already done this

Saganowski said: ‘At the start of the season, it was a big disappointment to have to leave the club because of the politics involved.

We've just had this

I made a good choice with Aalborg because I got to play Champions League football, but now I am back and I want to show people who did not believe in me what I am capable of.

Excellent stuff, keep going

‘I love playing here, the fans have always been supportive of me and they know even when I do not play well, I have always given my heart to the club. I want to play here and I want to keep this football club in the Championship.’

 

When Saga talks of "the politics involved" it can be interpretted in many ways.

That's enough Politics - Ed

[paulwantsapint]

Loaning out all 3 main strikers was bad enough but if JP had played JE up front with DMG we might of had a chance as it would have taken some of the pressure of the boy

 

But what do I know after 20 years of watching Saints play?

[Alain Perrin]

Money - and if you didn't know that already, you really need to wake up.

[um pahars]

Money - and if you didn't know that already, you really need to wake up.

 

Options, alternatives, trade offs and false economies.

[sidthesquid]

Loaning out all 3 main strikers was bad enough but if JP had played JE up front with DMG we might of had a chance as it would have taken some of the pressure of the boy

 

But what do I know after 20 years of watching Saints play?

 

Looks obvious now, but Burley D&G Pearson & JP all failed to spot it

[sidthesquid]

Options, alternatives, trade offs and false economies.

 

Of course it was money. We had to ship out anyone that anyone would take, not necessarily who we wanted to go & quite frankly if any of them were that good we could have sold them for millions as well as getting their salaries off the books. But nobody else rated them that highly either.

[um pahars]

Of course it was money. We had to ship out anyone that anyone would take, not necessarily who we wanted to go & quite frankly if any of them were that good we could have sold them for millions as well as getting their salaries off the books. But nobody else rated them that highly either.

 

Schneiderlin's fees, agents fees, wages & add ons for the various players who have never featured, same again for the loanees, various other decisions to spend money (i.e. not letting Webster go, paying off Poortvliet???).

 

Then of course we have the thousands lost in revenues as attendances fall away as we fail to win, dur to us failing to score giving rise to a false economy!!!!!!

 

Financial constraints certainly dictated things, but IMHO not to the extent that they dictated we had to go down the exact path we did.

 

We had choices, and we simply made the wrong decisions.

[ottery st mary]

Looks obvious now, but Burley D&G Pearson & JP all failed to spot it

 

Week after week man posters and supporters at games told the management and coaching staff that Saints needed a winning centre half and a big striker for any of our strikers to play off to even give it half a chance.

 

But no The Director of Football would not allow his coaches JP and Wottey to run the side.

 

Once Rupert was forcibly sidelined Wottey is now at least able to run a football team..Let us hope it is not too late.

 

Rupert go home.

[sidthesquid]

Schneiderlin's fees, agents fees, wages & add ons for the various players who have never featured, same again for the loanees, various other decisions to spend money (i.e. not letting Webster go, paying off Poortvliet???).

 

Then of course we have the thousands lost in revenues as attendances fall away as we fail to win, dur to us failing to score giving rise to a false economy!!!!!!

 

Financial constraints certainly dictated things, but IMHO not to the extent that they dictated we had to go down the exact path we did.

 

We had choices, and we simply made the wrong decisions.

 

I don't know for sure any more than you do, but I'm fairly sure Schneiderlin, Gasmi etc etc still came to less than one of our big earners. £10K a week is a lot of money, particularly when you times it by five or six

I don't suppose the bank would take a 'but honestly we'll get 25 thousand here if we can keep Saga and Skacel' as a negotiating stance

I accept that some very poor decoisions were made, but don't rewrite everything to fit your agenda with the benefit of hindsight. Personally after last season I was hoping to see all the old pros go because I thought they let us down terribly last year and I wasn't alone - now everyone says of course it was obvious we should have kept them (I even read on here a few weeks ago someone wishing we had kept Jermaine Wright!) They were all crap last year, we needed to rebuild & cut costs but plan A didn't work. That's life

[Legod Third Coming]

This was simple for me. If you run a business and you need sales, you don't fire your salesman and keep the cleaner, accountant, receptionist, driver, filing clerk, etc.

 

And above all, you don't draw a salary yourself or draw one for some other people who hang around the boardroom.

 

Which of our inglorious leaders sacrificed their salaries to keep a striker scoring goals at the club??

[Alain Perrin]

Once Saga got his contract (after his end of season loan heroics), he was a complete waste of space. There was no case to keep him in my opinion.

 

However, he's back and with fire in his belly to prove those that doubted him wrong - that's a good thing.

[Alain Perrin]

This was simple for me. If you run a business and you need sales, you don't fire your salesman and keep the cleaner, accountant, receptionist, driver, filing clerk, etc.

 

And above all, you don't draw a salary yourself or draw one for some other people who hang around the boardroom.

 

Which of our inglorious leaders sacrificed their salaries to keep a striker scoring goals at the club??

 

Which of our boardroom are earning £10K a week? £5K a week? Lowe was on £420K in the Premiership and took a 50% cut on relegation, when he was working full time. He's now working 2 days a week.... which would work out at £84K a year. I don't know what he's on, but I reckon Saga would clear it in a couple of months.

Edited 1 March, 2009 by Alain Perrin

[Windmill Arm 2]

Saganowski said: ‘At the start of the season, it was a big disappointment to have to leave the club because of the politics involved. I made a good choice with Aalborg because I got to play Champions League football, but now I am back and I want to show people who did not believe in me what I am capable of.

 

‘I love playing here, the fans have always been supportive of me and they know even when I do not play well, I have always given my heart to the club. I want to play here and I want to keep this football club in the Championship.’

 

When Saga talks of "the politics involved" it can be interpretted in many ways.

 

Why do you care? Surely you would be more concerned with why Defoe went to Spurs, You are clearly a fish fukka afterall. I bet the last two results have left a nasty taste in your mouth eh? You must be gutted. Well dont be too upset, we're still in the bottom 3 and 3 points from safety so your wish may still come true.

[Whitey Grandad]

Which of our boardroom are earning £10K a week? £5K a week? Lowe was on £420K in the Premiership and took a 50% cut on relegation, when he was working full time. He's now working 2 days a week.... which would work out at £84K a year. I don't know what he's on, but I reckon Saga would clear it in a couple of months.

And of the two, who scores more goals? What would be interesting is the figure for Lowe's compensation when was forced out.

[aintforever]

Loaning out Rasiak, John and Saga was always going to lead to relegation.

 

Lowe is just a penny counter, he ony sees a players worth on he balance sheet, never on the pitch.

 

When you consider how much we have blown on the 15 players brought in, including the £1mill odd we wasted on Scheiderlin who cannot even get in the current starting line up, it makes farming out our only proven goalscorers even more rediculous.

[Alain Perrin]

And of the two, who scores more goals? What would be interesting is the figure for Lowe's compensation when was forced out.

 

Well that was £563K divided amongst the board that got kicked out. No-one knows what proportion Lowe got, but it was probably a couple of hundred thousand. So about £130K after tax. Or, to put it into perspective, 5 weeks of Rasiak and Stern John.

 

But I suppose if you were made redundant and your employer subsequently got into financial problems, you'd pay back your severance pay?

[Whitey Grandad]

Well that was £563K divided amongst the board that got kicked out. No-one knows what proportion Lowe got, but it was probably a couple of hundred thousand. So about £130K after tax. Or, to put it into perspective, 5 weeks of Rasiak and Stern John.

 

But I suppose if you were made redundant and your employer subsequently got into financial problems, you'd pay back your severance pay?

I'm self-employed so I see these matters from a different perspective. Compensation is for loss of employment so if someone were re-employed within a short timescale then I would expect the new remuneration to take account of the previous pay-off.

[Alain Perrin]

Loaning out Rasiak, John and Saga was always going to lead to relegation.

 

Lowe is just a penny counter, he ony sees a players worth on he balance sheet, never on the pitch.

 

When you consider how much we have blown on the 15 players brought in, including the £1mill odd we wasted on Scheiderlin who cannot even get in the current starting line up, it makes farming out our only proven goalscorers even more rediculous.

 

Which Scheiderlin is this then......

 

Originally Posted by aintforever

 

I would keep it the same, the important thing is Scheiderlin plays - 5 of our 6 wins have come with him in the side.

 

:)

[dubai_phil]

Here's a question for you.......

 

Saga was fantastic for us when he was on loan

 

He went "off the boil" when he had a contract (according to many on here)

 

He went out on loan and played in the Champions League after playing in the Euro's

 

So, my question - (in the spirit of Trousers' thread)

 

Is it possible that we are LUCKY he went out on loan in that his current rich vein of form is down to him having played regularly at a higher level for half the season?

 

 

 

 

(and no I don't think it was a good idea sending him out, but MAYBE with the mess of the JP days, HE was better off NOT being here and now we are reaping the rewards)

[The9]

I read somewhere recently (can`t remember where) that he went because Rupert and JP were convinced that the team would be successful with just the fantastic young players the the club had produced. We didn`t need expensive, experienced players.

 

Frankly Saga's attitude in his performances pre-season (mostly when playing left wing admittedly) didn't suggest he wanted to play for us in any way shape or form, and that he wasn't buying into the whole 4-2-1-3 with kids thing either. That along with the need to get as many wages off the wage bill as possible must have been the reason he was allowed to go on loan.

 

I'm pleased that he wants to play for us now, it's nice to have a proper striker.

[alpine_saint]

Is it possible that we are LUCKY he went out on loan in that his current rich vein of form is down to him having played regularly at a higher level for half the season?

 

No, we are just lucky we havent got a t**t of a manager that demotivates him any more.

[dubai_phil]

Well, here's the answer to the OP then

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1158381/Southampton-1-Cardiff-0-Jones-fumes-Saints-hit-Bluebirds-promotion-bid.html

 

...... striker Marek Saganowski says new boss Mark Wotte is right to select more experienced players, after previous manager Jan Poortvliet picked mainly youngsters.

'He likes to play older players, which is good because you need experience in the position we are in,' said Saganowski, 30.

 

See we're not the only ones who think it was "bleedin obvious"

[um pahars]

...... striker Marek Saganowski says new boss Mark Wotte is right to select more experienced players, after previous manager Jan Poortvliet picked mainly youngsters.

'He likes to play older players, which is good because you need experience in the position we are in,' said Saganowski, 30.

 

See we're not the only ones who think it was "bleedin obvious"

 

Amazingly, there's still one or two on here (see Up & Away's contributions last night), who still believe we're in with the Youth for the long term and there has been no discernable change of style/tactic/strategy in recent weeks!!!!

 

I can only pray that Lowe is not one of them and it is not his intention to give it another go come the summer when we're safe.

 

That's what worries me, in that I fear Lowe will really be really smarting now and even more determined to be proved right, and judging by his past inability to learn from his mistakes he should be taken out of the decision making process as soon as this season comes to a close.

[Frank's cousin]

No, we are just lucky we havent got a t**t of a manager that demotivates him any more.

 

LOL - made me spill my coffee but a lot of truth in that I think.

[Frank's cousin]

Amazingly, there's still one or two on here (see Up & Away's contributions last night), who still believe we're in with the Youth for the long term and there has been no discernable change of style/tactic/strategy in recent weeks!!!!

 

I can only pray that Lowe is not one of them and it is not his intention to give it another go come the summer when we're safe.

 

That's what worries me, in that I fear Lowe will really be really smarting now and even more determined to be proved right, and judging by his past inability to learn from his mistakes he should be taken out of the decision making process as soon as this season comes to a close.

 

I hope Lowe is smarting, I hope also that he recognises WHAT has contributed to the ever so slight upturn in our fortunes - I have to hope... I do also think he is pragmatic. I hope he will see that whatever he thinks of the youth only approach, its is impossible to get this to work in a division so dominted by guile and experience over pure football. We have to hope and be optimistic.