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Administration Deadline

Master Bates

By Master Bates,
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Sheff Saint

Sheff Saint

Posted
Posted
So why didn't we pay Notts County what we owe them last month if we're still a "going concern"?

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

Of course i'm just speculating, but the financial year ends next week. Notts County didn't seem upset we had delayed payement so maybe it is something we agreed with them in advance. Perhaps it meant we could pay our tax bill for 08/09? I'm not sure. Of course it means we're strapped for cash, but then we knew that anyway. Might not mean we're days away from being bust just doing a bit of creative accountancy.

 

Why on gods green planet do we owe Notts County a six figure sum for that sack of sh!t is another question altogether!

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Of course i'm just speculating, but the financial year ends next week. Notts County didn't seem upset we had delayed payement so maybe it is something we agreed with them in advance. Perhaps it meant we could pay our tax bill for 08/09? I'm not sure. Of course it means we're strapped for cash, but then we knew that anyway. Might not mean we're days away from being bust just doing a bit of creative accountancy.

 

Why on gods green planet do we owe Notts County a six figure sum for that sack of sh!t is another question altogether!

 

Crazy theory alert...

 

Perhaps there was a 'free recall' clause buried in our contract with Notts County such that they could buy him back at next to nothing if he didn't reach a certain number of appearances by, say, within 5 years of joining us (which happens to be this summer).

 

Might explain what some people believe about him being 'first name on the teamsheet' every game....there again, it might not explain anything whatsoever....

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Of course i'm just speculating, but the financial year ends next week. Notts County didn't seem upset we had delayed payement so maybe it is something we agreed with them in advance. Perhaps it meant we could pay our tax bill for 08/09? I'm not sure. Of course it means we're strapped for cash, but then we knew that anyway. Might not mean we're days away from being bust just doing a bit of creative accountancy.

 

Why on gods green planet do we owe Notts County a six figure sum for that sack of sh!t is another question altogether!

The sack of ###t whose goal got us a point at Blackpool and 3 points against Cardiff in the last few weeks.
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Playing on his own was he?
No, but he was a lot of time upfront earlier in the season.

I accept that I was wrong about Saga and he has done well but at the same token fans ought to also see that DMG has had a tough time playing up front alone and has done his best to get goals throughout.

I think a large section of fans have been very unfair on him, and still can't accept it.

Thank god KD had the guts to show all the doubters what they couldn't see, the amount of fans who were pleading to allow Bart to play as he was seen to be our No 1 and i hope DMG will also show fans how bigotted they were in their criticism.

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SaintRobbie

SaintRobbie

Posted
Posted
Saints look set to get past tomorrow’s Football League deadline for administration which would bring an immediate ten-point deduction.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4231432.Saints_look_set_to_get_past_tomorrow___s_Football/

 

OK - so an analysis...

 

Club finances are therefore either OK, Lowe thinks we'll stay up, relegation will be secure financially or he is planning on taking the 10 point deduction and admin in League 1...arguably for the good of a takeover by senior shareholders.

 

4 options there.

 

Personally I am relieved, as I firmly believe Lowe, Askham and/or others may have a plan to increase their holding over Saints if we go into administration - the reason? A firm refusal to put the club up for sale or even declare it as being so. This does mean however that the boardroom power struggle has yet to play out, and as a result we shall probably continue to fall with morale around the ankles as has been the case for sometime.

 

I still worry that we may go into admin in League 1 for the reasons above however, which delays our promotion back to the CCC for several years potentially. To be honest, consolidating ownership in League 1 would be cheaper. But also, I think a lynch mob would have been over to SMS like a shot if Lowe had taken admin now when we theoretically do still have a chance of staying up.

 

Its got to be good news - of my 4 options at least x3 of them are positive, x1 not so. Watch Lowe like a hawk over the summer once our plight is known. If he doesnt leave I suggest we have problems.

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Sheff Saint

Sheff Saint

Posted
Posted
No, but he was a lot of time upfront earlier in the season.

I accept that I was wrong about Saga and he has done well but at the same token fans ought to also see that DMG has had a tough time playing up front alone and has done his best to get goals throughout.

I think a large section of fans have been very unfair on him, and still can't accept it.

Thank god KD had the guts to show all the doubters what they couldn't see, the amount of fans who were pleading to allow Bart to play as he was seen to be our No 1 and i hope DMG will also show fans how bigotted they were in their criticism.

 

And i would be delighted if i was proven wrong.

 

I thought Davis was a shoddy keeper (i still think he's only the best of a bad bunch) but, nevertheless, he has really stepped up to the plate this season. My previous opinion of him was not being biggoted it was being accurate. Far too many mistakes and for the first half of last season was the weak link in a reasonably strong team.

 

My main issue with McGoldrick is actually how he continues to play week in week out. Whether or not the lad will go on to anything is not the issue. There are plenty of times i've seen him when he has looked tired and not interested. Even Shearer and Le Tissier were only used spradoically early in the careers. For all our's sakes, to have taken him out of the firing line for a few games would have been good for him, in my opinion. Certainly since Saga came back, we've had that option.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Indeed, wouldn't we get a points deduction both this and next season that way.

 

 

The Dogman Of Bassett is this you? :---)

 

 

 

Anyway the timing of an eventual entry into administration is virtual immaterial,

if we survive we'd get 10 points and go down. If we don't survive we get 10 next season anyway.To me the only way to avoid getting 10 points is not to go into administration,cos we certainly ain't going to get 22 points from the next 7 games.;);).

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)
And i would be delighted if i was proven wrong.

 

My main issue with McGoldrick is actually how he continues to play week in week out. Whether or not the lad will go on to anything is not the issue. There are plenty of times i've seen him when he has looked tired and not interested. Even Shearer and Le Tissier were only used spradoically early in the careers. For all our's sakes, to have taken him out of the firing line for a few games would have been good for him, in my opinion. Certainly since Saga came back, we've had that option.

 

Obviously DMG gets a lot of critics, but for those of us with longer memories the above is true of young strikers coming into the game take time to adjust. All our big names from the past had a long wait to get established.

Channon who scored on his debut, wasn't a regular for another 18 months and even then not prolific in front of goal. Shearer; then 18 became legend because of his Dell hat trick v. Arsenal - couldn't get in the side for even half a season until TWO years later. It was only in his last season that he looked anything like the class act he later became at Blackburn / Newcastle. Beattie, Kenwyne Jones ..other examples of slow starters who took time to get in the goals regularly, and the most criticised player in modern times (after MLT) for his LAZY style - Greg Rasiak ..still managed 20 goals/season.

So being ..young ..and lazy is a real curse!

 

MLT had a greatstart as super sub, and got headlines when his cup goals v. Man Utd got Ron Atkinson sacked as manager the following week. Even then it took time for him (MLT) to get established. Stokes and Moran likewise, but had other senior players around them most of the time.

Their scoring feats look good in the record books but like many after them, they looked world class - in the youth sides - but weren't exceptional at first team level when brought in. One exception was Martin Chivers, who debuted at 18, and waited two years for first team chance and then couldn't stop scoring between 1964-66 ..and later in the top flight.(then Div.1)

 

McGoldrick is only par for the course. His first "real" season and he's top scorer - in a team in the bottom 3. Incidentally, most of you will have noted that DMG has started more games - and scored more goals than all our other " out-loaned " players put together. He'll improve - I just hope that he's still with us when he really hits top form.

Edited by david in sweden
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Has nobody thought the Board may opt for Administration AFTER the 26th / last Thursday of the month?

 

Spoke to a well connected former player yesterday, announcement expected on Friday. Don't shoot the messenger...

 

They may be announcing the half-year accounts though.

Must be about the right time.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted

 

I've just noticed that when you look at an old thread your post count shows it's current value.Weird huh, I'm sure that Doc Brown probably explained it in Back to the Future III though.

I think that was one of Dogman's first posts, although it shows as his 12th now

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The Dogman Of Bassett

The Dogman Of Bassett

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Posted
Indeed, wouldn't we get a points deduction both this and next season that way.

 

 

The Dogman Of Bassett is this you? :---)

 

No, I believe after 26th we would get a points deduction next season.

The obvious gamble with Administration AFTER the 26th is we have to stay up this season, or it will backfire tremendously. I can see the logic though; have a crack at next season in the Championship starting from minus whatever, but getting bigger crowds than League 1, being able to charge more on the door and receiving a bigger (prize money) cheque than say Swindon or Carlisle will for all their trouble.

 

Plus, interestingly, if we go into Administration now it is a lot harder to sell a League 1 club then it is a Championship club.

Who is to say the club haven't been advised to wait until after the deadline for points deduction this season?

 

From what my source told me there is a very real possibility of further point deductions because we have financial complications, ie if you owe the Revenue they do not accept CVA's which puts you back in the **** with the FA, who then reward you with further point deductions!

 

At the moment this is gossip, but my source is respected, so we will see.

 

Nice.

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted

So bascially it's either take the 10 point deduction and go down now.

 

Or wait until the of the season, find we're relegated and take the 10 points then.

 

Or wait until the end of the season, not get relegated but find we're not 10 points clear and get relegated anyway.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
No, I believe after 26th we would get a points deduction next season.

The obvious gamble with Administration AFTER the 26th is we have to stay up this season, or it will backfire tremendously. I can see the logic though; have a crack at next season in the Championship starting from minus whatever, but getting bigger crowds than League 1, being able to charge more on the door and receiving a bigger (prize money) cheque than say Swindon or Carlisle will for all their trouble.

 

Plus, interestingly, if we go into Administration now it is a lot harder to sell a League 1 club then it is a Championship club.

Who is to say the club haven't been advised to wait until after the deadline for points deduction this season?

 

From what my source told me there is a very real possibility of further point deductions because we have financial complications, ie if you owe the Revenue they do not accept CVA's which puts you back in the **** with the FA, who then reward you with further point deductions!

 

At the moment this is gossip, but my source is respected, so we will see.

 

Nice.

 

This is wrong, if we stayed up (but not 10 points clear of the last relegation place) we'd cop -10 at the end of the season and go down. If we go down anyway we'd cop -10 next season.

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The Dogman Of Bassett

The Dogman Of Bassett

Posted
Posted
I've just noticed that when you look at an old thread your post count shows it's current value.Weird huh, I'm sure that Doc Brown probably explained it in Back to the Future III though.

I think that was one of Dogman's first posts, although it shows as his 12th now

 

Ha, I think you'll find one of my first posts was to advise you all that Woggy had been sacked.

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treggs23

treggs23

Posted
Posted
No, I believe after 26th we would get a points deduction next season.

The obvious gamble with Administration AFTER the 26th is we have to stay up this season, or it will backfire tremendously. I can see the logic though; have a crack at next season in the Championship starting from minus whatever, but getting bigger crowds than League 1, being able to charge more on the door and receiving a bigger (prize money) cheque than say Swindon or Carlisle will for all their trouble.

 

Plus, interestingly, if we go into Administration now it is a lot harder to sell a League 1 club then it is a Championship club.

Who is to say the club haven't been advised to wait until after the deadline for points deduction this season?

 

From what my source told me there is a very real possibility of further point deductions because we have financial complications, ie if you owe the Revenue they do not accept CVA's which puts you back in the **** with the FA, who then reward you with further point deductions!

 

At the moment this is gossip, but my source is respected, so we will see.

 

Nice.

 

Not sure I get this bit, as if we stay up doesn't it have to be following the ten point deduction?? i.e. if we stay up we'll not have any deduction next season?? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
This is wrong, if we stayed up (but not 10 points clear of the last relegation place) we'd cop -10 at the end of the season and go down. If we go down anyway we'd cop -10 next season.

 

Agreed. The only scenario where we would stay up but take the points deduction for admin next season, is if we avoid the drop by 10 clear points and that "aint gonna happen!"

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted
Not sure I get this bit, as if we stay up doesn't it have to be following the ten point deduction?? i.e. if we stay up we'll not have any deduction next season?? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

 

If we stay up and go into admin we lose 10 points form our total this season, so have to be 10 points clear of the relegation zone.

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treggs23

treggs23

Posted
Posted
If we stay up and go into admin we lose 10 points form our total this season, so have to be 10 points clear of the relegation zone.

 

Thanks for clarifying...so, in short, there is no way that we can stay up this season, go into admin, and start next season on minus 10 in the championship...this admin lark is confusing!

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted
Thanks for clarifying...so, in short, there is no way that we can stay up this season, go into admin, and start next season on minus 10 in the championship...this admin lark is confusing!

 

No pretty much, and either taking admin now or at the end of the season, both require 13 points to stay up without any other teams getting points. With only 21 still to play for.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Ha, I think you'll find one of my first posts was to advise you all that Woggy had been sacked.

 

Not forgetting this one from November of course....;)

"I think you will find when we sell Spiderman / Lalana / Surman in January, that will free up the funds to pay the wages of one of our on loan strikers, who we currently cannot afford."

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=102572#post102572

 

Not that you're being stalked or anything like that.... :)

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted (edited)

Or on the other hand we may be able to avoid relegation and stave off admin until the summer, when we sell the likes of surman/davis/saga and cash in on a million or so and can then avoid going into admin.

 

edit: and also stern john and rasiak who seem to have done well at their respective clubs.

Edited by Nexstar
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Or on the other hand we may be able to avoid relegation and stave off admin until the summer, when we sell the likes of surman/davis/saga and cash in on a million or so and can then avoid going into admin.

 

No money for Davis this summer, think he's out of contract.

Saga ? well we haven't found a taker yet despite a year of trying so not so hopeful there

McGoldrick will be sold for about 2.3 million and you'll all be really pleased.

Schneiderlin will return to France for about 500K(cos he hates it here) and with the proceeds of those 2 sales Rupert will buy us an 8 yr old tyro striker from Paraguay.Surman may move on but Weston will no doubt inform us in due time.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Or on the other hand we may be able to avoid relegation and stave off admin until the summer, when we sell the likes of surman/davis/saga and cash in on a million or so and can then avoid going into admin.

 

edit: and also stern john and rasiak who seem to have done well at their respective clubs.

 

They won't be coming back, both out of contract this summer I think.

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted
No money for Davis this summer, think he's out of contract.

Saga ? well we haven't found a taker yet despite a year of trying so not so hopeful there

McGoldrick will be sold for about 2.3 million and you'll all be really pleased.

Schneiderlin will return to France for about 500K(cos he hates it here) and with the proceeds of those 2 sales Rupert will buy us an 8 yr old tyro striker from Paraguay.Surman may move on but Weston will no doubt inform us in due time.

 

True, DMG will probably be the big seller, which won't be so bad if we stay up and can then not go into admin. Just looking at free players for next season then.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
And i would be delighted if i was proven wrong.

 

I thought Davis was a shoddy keeper (i still think he's only the best of a bad bunch) but, nevertheless, he has really stepped up to the plate this season. My previous opinion of him was not being biggoted it was being accurate. Far too many mistakes and for the first half of last season was the weak link in a reasonably strong team.

 

No your previous opinion was not accurate but badly judged. If you went back to the start of last season he was on many occasions the motm. He was the victim of fans not giving him a fair chance as they listened too much to a load of Sunderland fans who were smarting from a humiliating relegation season.Yes he came with his confidence dented but still made some crucial saves that earnt us lots of points last season.This season he has been appreciated more and that has helped his game even further.DMG will in time also win fans over, and as David in Sweden says lets hope it is our shirt.
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
I may be wrong but I thought Rasiak had another year left?

 

I bloody well hope not, we don't need to be arguing about whether we should have loaned him out to ...... all next season as well.Watford won't give us 750K for him to be sure (although that would tend to indicate that he does have another year).

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
I bloody well hope not, we don't need to be arguing about whether we should have loaned him out to ...... all next season as well.Watford won't give us 750K for him to be sure (although that would tend to indicate that he does have another year).

 

Four year deal in May 2006. Watford do have an option to make his signing permanent though.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=6853

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Here's a novel one, how about we play him and see if he can score some of the hundreds of chances we've created this season...

 

Novel idea, although his scoring record at Watford tends to indicate he's probably fractionally better than McG at 3 times the price.Getting on a bit in my opinion.Could be an idea if we're still in the CCC with extra money though.

Mind you I'd rather have the 750K from Watford .

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Lets B Avenue

Lets B Avenue

Posted
Posted
Novel idea, although his scoring record at Watford tends to indicate he's probably fractionally better than McG at 3 times the price.Getting on a bit in my opinion.Could be an idea if we're still in the CCC with extra money though.

Mind you I'd rather have the 750K from Watford .

 

I'd rather the club had it, than you.

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted

Rupert Lowe really is a stubborn egotistical oaf.

 

I was infuriated by the bit in the Echo article which indicated we would only go into admin if forced to by our creditors, and that protecting the club and its history is utterly irrelevant to Lowe and Wilde.

 

And we are supposed to get behind the team whilst they run the show...pathetic.

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Ponty

Ponty

Posted
Posted
Rupert Lowe really is a stubborn egotistical oaf.

 

I was infuriated by the bit in the Echo article which indicated we would only go into admin if forced to by our creditors, and that protecting the club and its history is utterly irrelevant to Lowe and Wilde.

 

And we are supposed to get behind the team whilst they run the show...pathetic.

 

There are no quotes attributed to RL or MW on that link so your post is based largely on conjecture, both yours and that of the journalist who wrote the piece. There are enough real things to be fed up about at the club without inventing new ones, IMO anyway.

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted
There are no quotes attributed to RL or MW on that link so your post is based largely on conjecture, both yours and that of the journalist who wrote the piece. There are enough real things to be fed up about at the club without inventing new ones, IMO anyway.

 

Read my words. I reacted to the piece. Nothing more. Apart from the fact there are 1001 reasons to call Lowe a stubborn egotistical oaf without even considering this report...

 

However, the report fits with the public perception of him. That public perception is his fault.

 

Your dismissal of the report and my reaction to it as "conjecture" rings somewhat hollow, imo.

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