washsaint Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin, we have our club back, etc but I'm not. Just wondering why there are heroes (Crouch & McMenemy) and then the obvious pantomime villains (Lowe and Wilde). Quite frankly, until the club is shot of all baggage (Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy - the whole bloody lot of them) we'll never be able to move forward. They're all villains in my book, carryng out petty squabbling and pointless point scoring and fiddling whilst Rome was burning. Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Also didn't realise that Crouch worked for the Administrator....he seems to pop up everywhere saying 28 days left, hands in the pocket, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stapler Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Dead Right Washsaint . we need a new board with new ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Yup someone with no friggin' connection to Southampton Football Club but looks at it and says with the right planning we could be a good Championship side in three years time and maybe pushing for a play-off place in five years. You know realistic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 6 April, 2009 Share Posted 6 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin, we have our club back, etc but I'm not. Just wondering why there are heroes (Crouch & McMenemy) and then the obvious pantomime villains (Lowe and Wilde). Quite frankly, until the club is shot of all baggage (Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy - the whole bloody lot of them) we'll never be able to move forward. They're all villains in my book, carryng out petty squabbling and pointless point scoring and fiddling whilst Rome was burning. Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Also didn't realise that Crouch worked for the Administrator....he seems to pop up everywhere saying 28 days left, hands in the pocket, etc, etc. True dat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Please expand of what you consider Leon Crouch's 'fundamental errors of judgment' to have been , are you referring to Dodd & Gorman ? If so this seems somewhat harsh as he corrected that error with the appointment of Pearson surely :confused: Leon Crouch has his full share of human weakness no doubt (if he was a better politician he may have been able to prevented Lowe's return IMO) but it seems to me he's a genuine guy who does actually give a s*it about the future of this club . By the way he also puts his money where his mouth is which is more than some can say . It remains my opinion that it's grossly unfair to tar him with the same brush as Wilde & Lowe - or are we into 'guilt by association' now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Please expand of what you consider Leon Crouch's 'fundamental errors of judgment' to have been , are you referring to Dodd & Gorman ? If so this seems somewhat harsh as he corrected that error with the appointment of Pearson surely :confused: Leon Crouch has his full share of human weakness no doubt (if he was a better politician he may have been able to prevented Lowe's return IMO) but it seems to me he's a genuine guy who does actually give a s*it about the future of this club . By the way he also puts his money where his mouth is which is more than some can say . It remains my opinion that it's grossly unfair to tar him with the same brush as Wilde & Lowe - or are we into 'guilt by association' now ? Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Please expand of what you consider Leon Crouch's 'fundamental errors of judgment' to have been , are you referring to Dodd & Gorman ? If so this seems somewhat harsh as he corrected that error with the appointment of Pearson surely :confused: Leon Crouch has his full share of human weakness no doubt (if he was a better politician he may have been able to prevented Lowe's return IMO) but it seems to me he's a genuine guy who does actually give a s*it about the future of this club . By the way he also puts his money where his mouth is which is more than some can say . It remains my opinion that it's grossly unfair to tar him with the same brush as Wilde & Lowe - or are we into 'guilt by association' now ? I'm with you as well Charlie , I think Crouch should be cut some slack as he has tried and is still doing his best for SFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I don't think the OP is referring to the specifics of each tenure, rather the fact that they all seem to spend more time pointing the finger of blame than doing anything proactive. Fair play, Crouch seems to have taken the high ground lately - asking everyone to support the club rather than harp on about whose fault it is - but historically he's as culpable as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin, we have our club back, etc but I'm not. Just wondering why there are heroes (Crouch & McMenemy) and then the obvious pantomime villains (Lowe and Wilde). Quite frankly, until the club is shot of all baggage (Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy - the whole bloody lot of them) we'll never be able to move forward. They're all villains in my book, carryng out petty squabbling and pointless point scoring and fiddling whilst Rome was burning. Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Also didn't realise that Crouch worked for the Administrator....he seems to pop up everywhere saying 28 days left, hands in the pocket, etc, etc. Spot on For once can we have a thread that doesn't just re-state ALL the arguments between the differing factions - we already KNOW the story, we LIVED through it. We are in Admin, we have the CHANCE of extinction and we have the CHANCE of a completely clean start. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone who lived through the past 10 years or so of supporting Saints can possibly PREFER ANYONE associated with the clubs demise in that time to still have a hold on what happens to us in the future. First choice - clean break - WISE and professional people with a plan and some funds to match. Last choice - anyone previously associated with the club simply to avoid extinction. Until we KNOW what the choice is - I don't want to see ANY of them trying to influence things or rally us. WE KNOW WE ARE IN TROUBLE, ditch the politics and simply ACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 First choice - clean break - WISE and professional people with a plan and some funds to match. Why would you want Wise here? :smt017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Why would you want Wise here? :smt017 Tish Boom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Dead Right Washsaint . we need a new board with new ideas well.........maybe but..... I just hope that the new owners pay homage to our past and don't exclude all our golden memories. Lawrie McMenemy is figurehead for the club's long(and not always distinguished ) history. During his time as manager; we won the FA Cup, had the clubs MOST successful seasons, fielded a side with the England keeper, at one time played FIVE former England captains in the same side..and finished runners-up in the top division behind Liverpool. (There are still fans who claim that had that season been two weeks longer, we would have won the title that year. ) OK that doesn't mean much to fans who weren't watching games 25-30 years ago, anymore than the young fan who saw an elderly Ted Bates wandering around and asked.. " What has that old guy got to do with the Saints Football Club ? "... when fans of an older era could tell a lot more. But along with Terry Paine, Ron Davies, Mick Channon and Matthew Le Tissier (now 40 years old ).. are just names in a record book to some, but really are the heart of our club and its history. My greatest hope is the likes of the players named, and many more won't be shut out by the new managemant..whoever they are...and that our great players of the past will remain as part of the " new " club, whether they are represented on the Board or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin, we have our club back, etc but I'm not. I don't think there are many who are relishing or celebrating administration, and I think that even the very small minority who think it might be the dawning of a new era will soon realise it comes at a price. Just wondering why there are heroes (Crouch & McMenemy) and then the obvious pantomime villains (Lowe and Wilde). Quite frankly, until the club is shot of all baggage (Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy - the whole bloody lot of them) we'll never be able to move forward. They're all villains in my book, carryng out petty squabbling and pointless point scoring and fiddling whilst Rome was burning. Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Most sensible people realise that many have contributed to our demise and I don't think people see it in the same black and white terms (i.e. Lowe = bad, Crouch = good) as you think they do. There will always be debate how that blame should be apporitioned, but as Crouch was continually saying last night, now is not the time for recriminations, mud slinging and raking up te past. Also didn't realise that Crouch worked for the Administrator....he seems to pop up everywhere saying 28 days left, hands in the pocket, etc, etc. I'm not overly comfortable with the same "faces" popping up again, but just as Richards was involved on Saturday, it probably is seen as a needs must situation in this current hour of need. I would certainly like to see someone else put there head above the parapet, but in the absence of that I would take anyone taking a lead to get us out of this abyss. Hell, if Lowe and Wilde stepped up, threw in some money, apologosed and seemed sincere I would even have them doing something (then again that may be too counter productive). I certainly want a fresh start going forward, but at the moment we are in a desperate state and I for one welcome Crouch's donation and attempt to drum up support (although I would also like the situation clarified a bit more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin, we have our club back, etc but I'm not. Just wondering why there are heroes (Crouch & McMenemy) and then the obvious pantomime villains (Lowe and Wilde). Quite frankly, until the club is shot of all baggage (Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, McMenemy - the whole bloody lot of them) we'll never be able to move forward. They're all villains in my book, carryng out petty squabbling and pointless point scoring and fiddling whilst Rome was burning. Lowe made big mistakes, Wilde lied about investment, Crouch made fundamental errors of judgement and lied......quite frankly they are all as bad as each other and we need to be shot of all of them. Also didn't realise that Crouch worked for the Administrator....he seems to pop up everywhere saying 28 days left, hands in the pocket, etc, etc. But this is part of the problem. The situation within the club is not clear cut - not black or white. There are a number of posters on here who see things the other way round i.e. Lowe and Wilde being the heroes and Crouch and McMenemy being the pantomime villains. The fact that we all love the club, it is interesting that views and opinions are so different. IMHO, we DO need a clean sweep - all of them out of the picture,but Lowe (and Wilde) made too many bad decisions over a long period. Crouch made mistakes (freely admitted by himself) but he is a Saints fan through and through and HAS put money into the club (£50000 pounds to the SOS fund just being the latest). As far as McMenemy goes, I am of "a certain age" and watched Saints acheive things beyond our wildest dreams under him, and NOTHING will take away my admiration for what he did for this club. Of all of the people who have made money out of this club, he is the one that deserves it most as far as I am concerned. There are people who have made far more than him who don`t deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Wish I could say I was astounded at some comments on here (you know who you are) about how great it is we are in admin Would appreciate a link to those quotes. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I am gutted. I thought we were over the worst and last week's news was a real sickener and a low point in the history of our club. We have been down this road before. Remember, be careful what you wish for? Well those who wished for Adminstration have their wish and goodness only knows what that means for SFC in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I don't think the OP is referring to the specifics of each tenure, rather the fact that they all seem to spend more time pointing the finger of blame than doing anything proactive. Fair play, Crouch seems to have taken the high ground lately - asking everyone to support the club rather than harp on about whose fault it is - but historically he's as culpable as anyone else. Yes that is the spirit Ponty let us not blame individuals...Leon as culpable as Rupert lest we forget good old Rupes as well...just a thought for fair play all round...no matter what side of the fence....let us try to get Rupert back on to support our current aim:) You can do it Ponty...we are right there with you in supporting those who love the club.:smt049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Yes that is the spirit Ponty let us not blame individuals...Leon as culpable as Rupert lest we forget good old Rupes as well...just a thought for fair play all round...no matter what side of the fence....let us try to get Rupert back on to support our current aim:) You can do it Ponty...we are right there with you in supporting those who love the club.:smt049 As a rule I struggle to work out what the **** you are going on about and this time is no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Remember, be careful what you wish for? Well those who wished for Adminstration have their wish and goodness only knows what that means for SFC in the future. I'm still to see a list of those posters who "wished for" Administration. There were some who saw it as inevitable and some who were open minded to it happening but I can't remember anyone wishing it would happen out of pure choice. Once again, a few quotes might not go a miss if people are going to toss in such accusations willy nilly. p.s. good to see "toss" and "willy" passing through the word censor, especially in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I'm still to see a list of those posters who "wished for" Administration. There were some who saw it as inevitable and some who were open minded to it happening but I can't remember anyone wishing it would happen out of pure choice. Once again, a few quotes might not go a miss if people are going to toss in such accusations willy nilly. "Stanley" did and openly expressed it many times. I believe "The Farmer" also called it as the way forward he wanted. Feel free to prove me wrong with a search of the forum. I won't be bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 As a rule I struggle to work out what the **** you are going on about and this time is no exception. I right there with you all the way ponty..as long as its Saints I will support you through thick and thin.:smt049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 As a rule I struggle to work out what the **** you are going on about and this time is no exception. Glad it`s not just me then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Glad it`s not just me then! No worries..just thought that I would join ponteys army... someone told me about ponty leading some fans support of the club.. Obviously got it wrong.:smt017 Anyway you, ponty and me all support Saints not individuals..:smt049yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 No worries..just thought that I would join ponteys army... someone told me about ponty leading some fans support of the club.. Obviously got it wrong.:smt017 Anyway you, ponty and me all support Saints not individuals..:smt049yeah Stop it!! Your scaring me now!!:smt049:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 (edited) Stop it!! Your scaring me now!!:smt049:) You are both big heroes of mine:) I have been the villian for far too long.....I just wanted to join ponteys army following the Saints... See how I brought that back to the fred:cool: Edited 7 April, 2009 by ottery st mary two many spellin cooock uups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 "Stanley" did and openly expressed it many times. I believe "The Farmer" also called it as the way forward he wanted. Feel free to prove me wrong with a search of the forum. I won't be bitter. Ok, that's two. I'm still counting the fingers on one hand though.... Perhaps it would be more accurate for the 'accusers' to open their posts with "I hope the 0.02% of the Saints Web Forum who wanted us to go into Administration....." rather than implying it was more than just a couple of wind up merchants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I don't think the OP is referring to the specifics of each tenure, rather the fact that they all seem to spend more time pointing the finger of blame than doing anything proactive. Fair play, Crouch seems to have taken the high ground lately - asking everyone to support the club rather than harp on about whose fault it is - but historically he's as culpable as anyone else. So what, Crouch came out and stated that he'd be prepared to pay £2m if matched by the other 2. I don't see the problem with that, to me it shows that one was prepared to save the club while the other 2 were quite happy to see it rot! There has been absolutely nothing by means of information coming out of the club since Lowe and Wilde returned. I for 1 am gratefull to Crouch, not just for putting his own money in but for also letting us know, to an extent, whats been going on there. All we've had from the club is the 'fans parliment' what a joke, Wilde was peddling this spin whilst knowing there was a very real chance there'd be no club by the end of the season, let alone a 'fans parliment' I agree all have made mistakes, thats human nature, i've employed people then a month down the line thought 'sh!t, how do i move this clown on'! The secret is learning, in my opinion Crouch made a mistake in giving Dodd and Gorman the job but rectified it and appointed Pearson. Would he of made future managerial mistakes? Don't know! One thing we do know is Lowe never learns, Gray, Sturrock, Wigley, Redknapp, Jan, Wotte etc All in my opinion, but I think its harsh to slag of Crouch for his mistake when, at the very least, he saw it, put it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Ok, that's two. I'm still counting the fingers on one hand though.... Perhaps it would be more accurate for the 'accusers' to open their posts with "I hope the 0.02% of the Saints Web Forum who wanted us to go into Administration....." rather than implying it was more than just a couple of wind up merchants? Oh please please please - can't we include those who publicly helped bring on admin by demanding that we boycotted.. Obviously by definition they would know that depriving the club of money would lead to admin so they wanted admin to get Lowe out Oh and also add in all those who said they hoped we would lose so that we got relegated.... Obviously they knew that poor results would mean less fans at home games which would lead to..... :smt073:smt073 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 You are both big heroes of mine:) I have been the villian for far too long.....I just wanted to join ponteys army following the Saints... See how I brought that back to the fred:cool: They say that there is a thin line between madness and genius!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I didn't mind Crouch, I think Lawrie is a good figurehead for the club, always has been. I don't rate Lowe as a businessman, and I think Wilde is a complete joke. There it is, my final word on the subject. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 They say that there is a thin line between madness and genius!!! I was thinking the same about all the great leaders of our (both Heroes and villians) great football club....Now us fans..We know the madness of supporting the Super Saints. Onwards and upwards...The next few weeks will be very bumpy and I hope somehow all will unite. By the way I am somewhere between Genius and.......:smt017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Yup someone with no friggin' connection to Southampton Football Club but looks at it and says with the right planning we could be a good Championship side in three years time and maybe pushing for a play-off place in five years. You know realistic..... Worst possible scenario, to have someone with no previous connection with Saints. We have already been down that road with Lowe, look where that took us, and then Wilde who claimed to be a Saints supporter but was actually a scouser. What we want is someone with a connection with Saints, who understands and appreciates the past and also has the vision and connections to get us back to a higher level. That doesn't necessarily mean Crouch or Lawrie, but it also shoudn't preclude them. Crouch is aware of his shortcomings, hence why he has not tried to lead the Club before, but has always taken good professinal advice (Lee Hoos, the only one of the Wilde Bunch that actually came out with any credit). 25000 plus on Saturday made it clear also what they think about Lawrie, and to a lesser extent Leon. The more people involved who know and understand this Club, together with some good business brains (by the way leon is the only one who is a successful business man, who actually creates wealth) is the right way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Worst possible scenario, to have someone with no previous connection with Saints. We have already been down that road with Lowe, look where that took us, and then Wilde who claimed to be a Saints supporter but was actually a scouser. What we want is someone with a connection with Saints, who understands and appreciates the past and also has the vision and connections to get us back to a higher level. That doesn't necessarily mean Crouch or Lawrie, but it also shoudn't preclude them. Crouch is aware of his shortcomings, hence why he has not tried to lead the Club before, but has always taken good professinal advice (Lee Hoos, the only one of the Wilde Bunch that actually came out with any credit). 25000 plus on Saturday made it clear also what they think about Lawrie, and to a lesser extent Leon. The more people involved who know and understand this Club, together with some good business brains (by the way leon is the only one who is a successful business man, who actually creates wealth) is the right way to go. here here, buy this man a pint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 continuity is VERY important in football clubs. sadly, we have very little continuity now.And it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 continuity is VERY important in football clubs. sadly, we have very little continuity now.And it shows. The only continuity Saints have had over the last 12 years is LOWE! Continually made stupid managerial appointments, continually created stupid experiments and continually wasted our clubs money! Hopefully we will now have a club that Lowe continually stays away from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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