qwertySFC Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Just wondered if there are any Football clubs owned and run by the fan ownership concept. The only one I am aware of is Blue Square Premier outfit Ebbsfleet United. Here the fans have a say who plays apperantly. Would be intersted to know if anyone knows another club run this way. If no buyer comes forward , is SOS considering the same concept as Ebbsfleet United. Would it work for us ?? can we aspire to be the new Ebbsfleet ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gravesend_and_northfleet/7089473.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Ebbsfleet are the only team run in that way. Allowing fans to influence team selection and player transfers like Ebbsfleet do is asking for trouble imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South City Si Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 That model should and would never be used for Saints, Barcelona/Real Madrid members ownership where they elect a board might work, but they can afford to be inconisitent as they are massive clubs and can afford the best players a club like us would suffer from all the scuffles that happen as each elected president only wants the best as they know if their managers don't succeed they won't be elcted again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 The Ebbsfleet novelty is already wearing off I noticed when members were being asked to renew their membership recently, figures dropped off alarmingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 don't clubs have to be 51% owned by supporters in Germany - or did someone just make that up!?! even if supporters had a 10% shareholding but grouped together to elect a director to the board - with the simple remit of making sure the other directors do what's best for the long term future of the club - that would be a major step forward I wonder if all the infighting and bickering would have happened - and a lot of the short sighted financial decisions made - if the directors knew they were being closely monitored by genuine supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rational Rich Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Got a feeling Stockport are (though they are close to the brink at the moment), possibly Brentford?? There are a couple more, but all in the lower reaches of the league (so we might fit right in). I think it's fair to say that it hasn't been an unmitigated success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 The Ebbsfleet novelty is already wearing off I noticed when members were being asked to renew their membership recently, figures dropped off alarmingly couple of reasons, novelty has worn off and the actual influence over the team is in fact very small... which makes sense, can you imagine any manager working with some kind of director looking over his shoulder...oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 One club that has struggled financially for years and have a very strong supporter input on funds is Kilmarnock in Scotland. I have pointed out to the Trust (but obviously ignored) two years back that their supporters finance entirely the club's Academy, one of the best north of the border. I recall the fans raising 30,000 pounds in one month of bucket collections and various social events for their Academy 2 years back,which sadly shows how ineffective our own collections have been. I do NOT want to be accused of criticising the wonderful people who gave generously and devoted their time to our own campaign, just somehow I believe it's no more than ****ing in the wind whilst genuine support right across the supporter base is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Isn't Exeter City still owned by the supporters trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Isn't Exeter City still owned by the supporters trust? I thought it was owned by that mad Israeli spoon bender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 I do NOT want to be accused of criticising the wonderful people who gave generously and devoted their time to our own campaign, just somehow I believe it's no more than ****ing in the wind whilst genuine support right across the supporter base is lacking. You can't blame the fans for not chucking money into buckets if they don't know where that money is going to go. I apply the same logic when that rough looking bird comes round with a collection tub in the Chapel Arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Isn't Exeter City still owned by the supporters trust? I'm sure they're the majority shareholder down there. Could be playing them next season as well!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 somehow I believe it's no more than ****ing in the wind whilst genuine support right across the supporter base is lacking. The problem is, some posters get accused of starting the 'I'm a better fan than you' debate However, I find it amazing that we can sell out last season v Sheff Utd, and again for Man Utd this season, but when we're at deaths door and need support more than ever, we get less than 24000 on a bank holiday I'm totally gutted at the general apathy of our supporters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 You can't blame the fans for not chucking money into buckets if they don't know where that money is going to go. I apply the same logic when that rough looking bird comes round with a collection tub in the Chapel Arms. Can we have an explanation for (rough looking bird) ie she was wearing slept in the street looking Duds. She was looking quite ill. You felt intimidated when she thrust the bucket under your snout, and talked in a deep husky voice. You just new if you looked at her the wrong way she would cave your roof in. She occupied the same place in the good looks Que, as you do in the fizzy. You had no chance of trapping her so she falls under the heading of Rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Can we have an explanation for (rough looking bird) ie she was wearing slept in the street looking Duds. She was looking quite ill. You felt intimidated when she thrust the bucket under your snout, and talked in a deep husky voice. You just new if you looked at her the wrong way she would cave your roof in. She occupied the same place in the good looks Que, as you do in the fizzy. You had no chance of trapping her so she falls under the heading of Rough. All apart from the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANISH Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 I think Chesterfield is owned by their supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Just wondered if there are any Football clubs owned and run by the fan ownership concept. The only one I am aware of is Blue Square Premier outfit Ebbsfleet United. Here the fans have a say who plays apperantly. Would be intersted to know if anyone knows another club run this way. If no buyer comes forward , is SOS considering the same concept as Ebbsfleet United. Would it work for us ?? can we aspire to be the new Ebbsfleet ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gravesend_and_northfleet/7089473.stm SOS are not considering the Ebbsfleet model. As I understand it they make mass fan decisions on the net. SOS is advocating a model of fan ownership, with elected fans who have the skills to do the job...NOT just whoever is popular!! Team selection, player purchase, systems, training methods, coaching team appointments, academy ethos, should be made by the Manager that the Board employees. Who runs the "football" at every successful club? The Manager!! No fan or CEO should ever get involved in this. The board should have people able to set policy, and oversee the vision and development of the Club. An appointed CEO (preferably from within football) should oversee the day-to-day running of the business and manage the senior management team. Hope that helps Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsdan Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Isn't Exeter City still owned by the supporters trust? I believe they are yes. A well run club that have completely turned around since the supporters trust took over following their relegation from the football league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 15 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 15 April, 2009 SOS are not considering the Ebbsfleet model. As I understand it they make mass fan decisions on the net. SOS is advocating a model of fan ownership, with elected fans who have the skills to do the job...NOT just whoever is popular!! Team selection, player purchase, systems, training methods, coaching team appointments, academy ethos, should be made by the Manager that the Board employees. Who runs the "football" at every successful club? The Manager!! No fan or CEO should ever get involved in this. The board should have people able to set policy, and oversee the vision and development of the Club. An appointed CEO (preferably from within football) should oversee the day-to-day running of the business and manage the senior management team. Hope that helps Hi Mark , Just a bit confused , I thought the Ebsfleet model was a fan ownership model. If the saints went with the model of fans owning and running the club as earleir suggested by your good self would any of the Ebsfleet model be considered. Just as of interest , if saints fans owned and run the club , how would a fan with relevant skills and experience be elected to work within the club. As I assume the fans would be stakeholders, would this entail that thoses fans who wish to portray their skills to the club go through an elected process. Would this require a person to produce a maifesto to the stakeholders to explain their relevant skills and experience and if several fans wanted to work within the same role does this mean the stakeholders vote and a 51% majority gets the post . The Ebsfleet trust work closely with the fan ownership to promote the future development of the club , is this some thing SOS are looking to replicate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 (edited) Shining beacons of Fan Ownership AFC Wimbledon & FC United of Manchester. FCUM being the more out there version, as we are against outright commercialism as well, such as shirt sponsorship. if you have an interest in asking questions about how ownership as members work then feel free to come and post on www.fcumforum.org.uk. Club website www.fc-utd.co.uk FCUM are run as an IPS, the rules of which are voted on and ratified by the clubs members, which costs £10 per year, for which you get one vote and one share. No one member can ever own more than one share. Recently FC members have voted in favour of a new homr shirt, held a design competition and voted on the shirt of choice for next season. Edited 15 April, 2009 by SET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 FCUM board members are elected every year on a two year basis, so half the board are forced to stand down after a two year period, they can of course stand for election again if they so wish. All Football decisions are made by the club manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 FCUM Constitution below, IPS rules can be found here http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/documents/ipsrules20080915.pdf FAQ - http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/documents/fcumfaq160408.pdf FC United of Manchester is a new football club founded by disaffected and disenfranchised Manchester United supporters. Our aim is to create a sustainable club for the long term which is owned and democratically run by its members, which is accessible to all the communities of Manchester and one in which they can participate fully. Although driven by very different circumstances, FC United of Manchester takes as its inspiration a number of supporters' groups who have gone down this route, including AFC Wimbledon, who have offered unstinting support. FC United of Manchester is intended to create a football club which addresses the concerns which many Manchester United fans have had over the last decade or more with how the club and football have developed, culminating in the club's takeover by Malcolm Glazer. We will follow the best traditions of Manchester United's past by developing policies which encourage youth participation in terms of both playing and supporting. FC United of Manchester will be formed as a member-owned, democratic, and non-profit making entity on the Industrial and Provident Society company model. The EGM will focus on the election of a board of directors by the members, and the direction of the club over the coming season. We have ambitious and long term plans. Above all we want to be seen as a good example of how a club can be run in the interests of its members and be of benefit to its local communities. However, we are a new club and will require patience in order to reach our goals. With the help of all our members and supporters we are confident we can achieve them. Seven core principles of how the club will operate are set out below, and once agreed by the membership, will be protected by all elected Board members: 1. The Board will be democratically elected by its members. 2. Decisions taken by the membership will be decided on a one member, one vote basis. 3. The club will develop strong links with the local community and strive to be accessible to all, discriminating against none. 4. The club will endeavour to make admission prices as affordable as possible, to as wide a constituency as possible. 5. The club will encourage young, local participation - playing and supporting - whenever possible. 6. The Board will strive wherever possible to avoid outright commercialism. 7. The club will remain a non-profit organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 15 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Shining beacons of Fan Ownership AFC Wimbledon & FC United of Manchester. FCUM being the more out there version, as we are against outright commercialism as well, such as shirt sponsorship. LW7 , Thanks , what a well thought out constitution FCUM have. The democratic way it is run seems to cover alot of the obvious issues people may have about donating large amounts of cash into a fan ownership club. The openness is clear , the whole concept must have taken some time to put together and I fear that IF , SFC are unable to recieve a suitable offer and it comes down to the possibility of a fans buy out , the whole under pinning of such a project would take to long to put together. Obviously FCUM was not in our position and therefore the planning had time to be developed correctly. Maybe SOS is already there with the basics , it apperas a huge undertaking , hopefully their hard input won't be required, but, the clear constitution is there for all to see from FCUM ,at the moment I'm not to sure what our fan ownership concept involves . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 Shining beacons of Fan Ownership AFC Wimbledon & FC United of Manchester. FCUM being the more out there version, as we are against outright commercialism as well, such as shirt sponsorship. LW7 , Thanks , what a well thought out constitution FCUM have. The democratic way it is run seems to cover alot of the obvious issues people may have about donating large amounts of cash into a fan ownership club. The openness is clear , the whole concept must have taken some time to put together and I fear that IF , SFC are unable to recieve a suitable offer and it comes down to the possibility of a fans buy out , the whole under pinning of such a project would take to long to put together. Obviously FCUM was not in our position and therefore the planning had time to be developed correctly. Maybe SOS is already there with the basics , it apperas a huge undertaking , hopefully their hard input won't be required, but, the clear constitution is there for all to see from FCUM ,at the moment I'm not to sure what our fan ownership concept involves . from an curry in manchester to the official launch of the football club took 11 days. donations were asked for and 4000 people donated 125k in a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 15 April, 2009 Share Posted 15 April, 2009 I can think of nothing worse (bar the return of Lowe & Wilde) than Saints being run by fans - particluarly if the Saints Trust had any involvement. Thankfully it'll never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 April, 2009 Share Posted 16 April, 2009 I can think of nothing worse (bar the return of Lowe & Wilde) than Saints being run by fans - particluarly if the Saints Trust had any involvement. Thankfully it'll never happen. Hopefully not thankfully, that is unless you know they are finished. Exeter is a fan owned club they learn't quickly that the fans don't run the club but they own it. The right managers are now used to run the club and are allowed to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right sider Posted 16 April, 2009 Share Posted 16 April, 2009 Ok just for clarification, this is how Ebbsfleet works, from one of the owners. It is one share, one vote. The members have never picked the team, although there is an option if enough members wanted to. It is an IPS with an elected board representing the members. The club has a chief exec, and chairman as normal, just that the club owner is the society that is MyFootballClub.co.uk. Members vote on issues such as ticket pricing, kit manufacturers and design, merchandise, staffing at the club, wage budgets etc. Yes numbers did go down at renewal as the northern members(mainly) left due to geography. When alot signed up there was no club as Ebbsfleet was not picked until 4 months into the project. Alot (I think about a third) of the membership is in fact from abroad. There are about 80 current members in Hampshire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirra Posted 16 April, 2009 Share Posted 16 April, 2009 I used to be one of the "Owners" of Ebbsfleet but didn't renew this year. Had it's good points such as members coughing up extra for players & an overnight stay in the FA Vase semi etc. But the reason I joined was to pick the team and it never happened. Most members just voted "leave it to the manager" every week. Cleared the debts though & got to go to Wembley & win a cup ! Great fun but wouldn't work at Premier level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now