saintbletch Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 ...struggles to come to terms with our mighty fall. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-soccer-southampton6-2009may06,0,7562209.story Interesting piece in the Los Angeles Times, although it does read a little bit like Soccer AM's soccer ball sketch. Reading it I couldn't help thinking that it might be fishing for a US buyer. Maybe just wishful thinking. Also a very interesting observation about the contradiction between the overtly capitalistic American society and the socialist mechanisms (salary caps, drafts, etc.) they put in their sports. Perhaps we can learn something from US sports administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Interesting piece - nice to get some US publicity, but if anything I think it would probably have potential US investor running scared given the comparisons between UK/UK League systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Interesting piece - nice to get some US publicity, but if anything I think it would probably have potential US investor running scared given the comparisons between UK/UK League systems. Our system is just not economically viabable - thats the biggets problem in finding a buyer - It has to be soimeone who either a) has nothing else to spend/waste his millions on as there is no return, or b) someone prepared to put up with teh flak from fans for having no ambition as they manage the club well within its revenue stream.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Are you reading Paul Allen?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 even talked about in the States. Good interesting and thoughtful article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Are you reading Paul Allen?!?!?! i found out over the weekend my mums friends niece from our area works on PA's yacht!!! If only I had known before id have told her to get in his ear to buy us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Quality name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardustonmyfeet Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 If Paul Allen really was interested in us, surely now would be the perfect time... or is he just a glory hunter who no longer cares now we're no longer in teh championship...?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoswellSaint Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 even talked about in the States. Good interesting and thoughtful article Oh, its been talked about a lot in the States. Been boring everyone silly about it for weeks. Now they might understand what I was on about. Did Tim have anything to do with this? With regard to Paul Allen, I was in a meeting at one of his companies last Friday. Walked past the Paul Allen conference room but no sign of him, no sign of red and white striped shirts hanging on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 With regard to Paul Allen, I was in a meeting at one of his companies last Friday. Walked past the Paul Allen conference room but no sign of him, no sign of red and white striped shirts hanging on the wall. Did he have his old Spurs playing shirt up instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Are you reading Paul Allen?!?!?! In case he missed it, let him know: http://www.vulcan.com/TemplateContactUs.aspx?contentId=89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Quality name I prefer Dante Culpepper, well as long as we're not judging quarterbacks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 That's a great article and makes a good point about the US system being more capitalist than ours, but with sports run on a more socialist basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Superb article. Really highlights the problems in football finances. The equalisation formula in US sports sits in stark contrast to the tedium and unhealthiness of the "big four" in British football. How many different teams have won the baseball World Series in the last fifteen years? The real problem is that the whole economy of football is now club-based. Major decisions are therefore made based on the narrow interests of Man Utd, Chelsea etc., rather than in the wider interests of the sport. Everyone's focused on trying to maximise their slice of the pie rather than actually trying to grow the pie. Formula 1 has many faults, but at least it has changed its rules and format to make it genuinely competitive. Football must do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 If Paul Allen really was interested in us, surely now would be the perfect time... or is he just a glory hunter who no longer cares now we're no longer in the championship...?! Whoa......that's backward isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoswellSaint Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Superb article. Really highlights the problems in football finances. The equalisation formula in US sports sits in stark contrast to the tedium and unhealthiness of the "big four" in British football. How many different teams have won the baseball World Series in the last fifteen years? The real problem is that the whole economy of football is now club-based. Major decisions are therefore made based on the narrow interests of Man Utd, Chelsea etc., rather than in the wider interests of the sport. Everyone's focused on trying to maximise their slice of the pie rather than actually trying to grow the pie. Formula 1 has many faults, but at least it has changed its rules and format to make it genuinely competitive. Football must do the same. Very true - except baseball is the least socialist of the big sports here. Hence the Yankees can spend over $200m a year in player salaries whereas some teams pay less than a quarter of that. The NFL is the best example where a team from Green Bay (pop. approx. 100,000) has a realistic chance of making the Super Bowl up against New York teams because most revenue is shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporate Ho Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 even talked about in the States. Good interesting and thoughtful article Talked about in the States in a mini article. Good old Chuck wrote a whole book about Pompey http://www.amazon.co.uk/Up-Pompey-Clueless-American-Sportswriter/dp/0297852833/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241628064&sr=1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TijuanaTim Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Ponty, didn't see this thread first of all. To answer your question, this article could end up and enormous help with what I'm trying to do, brings attention from a local prospective in front of the people whose attention we want to garner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 Ponty, didn't see this thread first of all. To answer your question, this article could end up and enormous help with what I'm trying to do, brings attention from a local prospective in front of the people whose attention we want to garner... Maybe so, but probably all a bit late, no? IMO you should've been wearing a sandwich board and carrying a banner amongst the LA elite months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY Saint Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 The NFL is the best example where a team from Green Bay (pop. approx. 100,000) has a realistic chance of making the Super Bowl up against New York teams because most revenue is shared. The American attitude to sport has taken me much of the eight years I've been here to appreciate. Sport is entertainment and as such should be considered a fair contest between teams as part of a televised program. Actually that sounds quite American. A few observations: - In professional sport (baseball, American football, basketball etc) the team with the worst record (West Brom this season in the Premier) receive the first pick of the best player from college football and the team with the best record has last pick. - Players have salary caps and teams have a limit on the salary they can pay (this doesn't apply to baseball - see Yankees $200 million a year salary bill). - Televised games are dictated purely by television. I've attended college football games where the play stops for television commercials. Yet, there are still 90,000 to 120,000 people at most college football games regardless of whether its televised. - Although the television programs that show the games have heavily commercial backing the NBA, NFL, MLB and MLS teams uniforms/shirts don't carry commercial endorsement. Not saying that its right or wrong, purely interesting to see how its done differently. Sports teams move around and franchises can be bought etc., but the poorest are given a sporting chance to survive not used as a feeder for the richer clubs and left to die. Fingers crossed things get sorted out soon. I feel in limbo. Just waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TijuanaTim Posted 6 May, 2009 Share Posted 6 May, 2009 The American attitude to sport has taken me much of the eight years I've been here to appreciate. Sport is entertainment and as such should be considered a fair contest between teams as part of a televised program. Actually that sounds quite American. A few observations: - In professional sport (baseball, American football, basketball etc) the team with the worst record (West Brom this season in the Premier) receive the first pick of the best player from college football and the team with the best record has last pick. - Players have salary caps and teams have a limit on the salary they can pay (this doesn't apply to baseball - see Yankees $200 million a year salary bill). - Televised games are dictated purely by television. I've attended college football games where the play stops for television commercials. Yet, there are still 90,000 to 120,000 people at most college football games regardless of whether its televised. - Although the television programs that show the games have heavily commercial backing the NBA, NFL, MLB and MLS teams uniforms/shirts don't carry commercial endorsement. Not saying that its right or wrong, purely interesting to see how its done differently. Sports teams move around and franchises can be bought etc., but the poorest are given a sporting chance to survive not used as a feeder for the richer clubs and left to die. Fingers crossed things get sorted out soon. I feel in limbo. Just waiting. Very well put... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 7 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 May, 2009 The American attitude to sport has taken me much of the eight years I've been here to appreciate. Sport is entertainment and as such should be considered a fair contest between teams as part of a televised program. Actually that sounds quite American. A few observations: - In professional sport (baseball, American football, basketball etc) the team with the worst record (West Brom this season in the Premier) receive the first pick of the best player from college football and the team with the best record has last pick. - Players have salary caps and teams have a limit on the salary they can pay (this doesn't apply to baseball - see Yankees $200 million a year salary bill). - Televised games are dictated purely by television. I've attended college football games where the play stops for television commercials. Yet, there are still 90,000 to 120,000 people at most college football games regardless of whether its televised. - Although the television programs that show the games have heavily commercial backing the NBA, NFL, MLB and MLS teams uniforms/shirts don't carry commercial endorsement. Not saying that its right or wrong, purely interesting to see how its done differently. Sports teams move around and franchises can be bought etc., but the poorest are given a sporting chance to survive not used as a feeder for the richer clubs and left to die. Fingers crossed things get sorted out soon. I feel in limbo. Just waiting. Interesting observations. I really am struck by the contrast between the dog-eat-dog approach of US commerce and the safety nets that are placed in US sports. Despite these sports being big businesses in their own right. I guess the one "good" thing about our structure is that with cash a lowly team can rise to the top (Wigan, Blackburn, etc.) albeit at the expense of some other poor buggers who suffer relegation. How does American sport accommodate the lower teams' ambitions? Does promotion/relegation play a role or is it a closed shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoakley Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 All American Sports Have advert after advert during the game every time out in the NBA ends up in a 1 min ad break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 how would we feel when Saints moved city to become Canterbury Saints or something. American setup sucks (apart from the salary cap maybe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 All American Sports Have advert after advert during the game every time out in the NBA ends up in a 1 min ad break. As opposed to this country where you can watch Football on Sky with no adverts before, after or at half time time. Oh.. OK then, you can watch the cricket without seeing an advert after every over or after every wicket, yeah? Oh.. Ok then, well at least you can watch Formula 1 without adverts THIS season eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 As opposed to this country where you can watch Football on Sky with no adverts before, after or at half time time. Oh.. Imagine it with an advert when there is a sub, injured player and maybe they could squeeze one in by the time the ball goes out a goal kick taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Imagine it with an advert when there is a sub, injured player and maybe they could squeeze one in by the time the ball goes out a goal kick taken The difference is, that there is no "break in play" when a sub is made, when a ball goes out for the goal kick etc. In the American sports, at these times the clock is stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 The difference is, that there is no "break in play" when a sub is made, when a ball goes out for the goal kick etc. In the American sports, at these times the clock is stopped. Which is exactly why American sports are boooooooooooooooring.... ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Imagine it with an advert when there is a sub, injured player and maybe they could squeeze one in by the time the ball goes out a goal kick taken If Drogba was playing they would run out of adverts to show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 If Drogba was playing they would run out of adverts to show Now that would be a ****ing disgrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastcowzer Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Very true - except baseball is the least socialist of the big sports here. Hence the Yankees can spend over $200m a year in player salaries whereas some teams pay less than a quarter of that. The NFL is the best example where a team from Green Bay (pop. approx. 100,000) has a realistic chance of making the Super Bowl up against New York teams because most revenue is shared. I think the Green Bay Packers are owned by the City of Green Bay, Wisconsin, whereas the other NFL teams are individually owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I think the Green Bay Packers are owned by the City of Green Bay, Wisconsin, whereas the other NFL teams are individually owned I think a lot of fans travel up from Milwaukee and Madison as well; 100K population is deceptive.There are over 1.5 million in Greater Milwaukee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TijuanaTim Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Imagine it with an advert when there is a sub, injured player and maybe they could squeeze one in by the time the ball goes out a goal kick taken There are more ways than one to kill a cat other than sucking it's brains through it's @ss...what I mean is, 'soccer' will not change i.e. no time outs, commercial breaks..but you do have to put up with all that horrible flyboys.com emblazoned across shirts and those god awful, colourful, distracting boards telling you to 'fly Emiroids' or whatever...it's six and two-threes FFS Neither really right nor wrong, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoswellSaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 Imagine it with an advert when there is a sub, injured player and maybe they could squeeze one in by the time the ball goes out a goal kick taken I imagine it would be painful to watch which is why ESPN, Fox Soccer Channel, etc don't do it. They show the whole first half, cram in the ads, show the whole second half. Guess what - they don't go to ads in the middle of extra time and miss the only goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoswellSaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 I think the Green Bay Packers are owned by the City of Green Bay, Wisconsin, whereas the other NFL teams are individually owned I think they are owned by the fans rather than the city but I could be wrong. Fan ownership - where has that been suggested recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 US sports are painful to watch which is my point..dont want footie to follow the US model on sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TijuanaTim Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 US sports are painful to watch which is my point..dont want footie to follow the US model on sports. Painful, maybe, but still not labourious as rugger and cricket FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY Saint Posted 7 May, 2009 Share Posted 7 May, 2009 How does American sport accommodate the lower teams' ambitions? Does promotion/relegation play a role or is it a closed shop? That's a fair question. By "lower teams' ambitions" do you mean minor leagues? The answer is - they are really not catered to beyond being feeder teams for the established professional teams in leagues such as MLB, NFL, NBA etc. (At least as far as I understand). However, the MLS is a little different as its still building and generating a fanbase, so they are open to new 'franchise' teams such as San Diego. Agreed. This happened to Wimbledon and the move to Milton Keynes which could be seen as a positive for the people of MK who didn't have a local team before, but sucked for the Wimbledon fans who setup an AFC to replace what they had lost. Oh, and on the news that another pro MLB player has tested positive for steroid abuse, at least we don't have to worry about that form of cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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