The midfield is the problem.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

something that presumably the 'clueless' Alan Pardew has identified too judging by the purchase of Dean Hammond...

Hell alpine, I agree with you!

Last night, because the midfield was AWOL, Swindon were just picking up clearances from an increasingly desperate Davis and running them straight back at the defence. Time, after time, after time.

Wotton might just as well have not been on the pitch. The only time I really noticed him was when he got booked.

Schneiderlin and Lallana in the same midfield? No, it just doesn't work. Having said that the idea seemed to be to play Lallana more up front. It was an idea that obviously hadn't been explained to the lad.....

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

Perhaps Hammond is the man we need for that. I think more pressing is the lack of physical presence and leadership in the centre of defence and just in front of them. I'm sure that's why Gillet is not playing and we are stuck with Wotton.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

Yes and no commanding CB and little width

The problem is a lack of height throughout the entire side. Practically every goal we have conceded has come from a cross into the box. I'm guessing that's a big part of why Gillet isn't getting a look in. We need 5 or 6 players, and they all need to be 6ft+ so we can start defending set pieces properly as a team.

I agree Alpine.

Ok our defence is struggling with set plays.. Thomas is getting back into the swing of things from a year out and Olli/Perry aren't anywhere near good enough but concidering 2 out of the 4 defenders are new and learning to play together you can understand that this area will most likely gel better.

We are weak in midfield and have been for donkey years. Definitely needing some pace down the wings but not just lightweight but quick players. A midfield general is a must and I really do hope that Hammond is that character. Just a ball winner who can break down the play.

Totally agree about the midfield. It allowed woeful pressure to be piled on the defence last night who I think actually deserve credit. No service to the front line at all.

I do think a single, older, experienced head in there might lift the whole unit and consequently the team without major surgery elsewhere.

I'm not yet finding much to praise Pardew for but he does seem to realise the need to bring in older more experienced players. Very impressed with Dan Harding so far, very hard working, always wants to get to the ball first and he's certainly no donkey. Rickie Lambert signing (hopefully) speaks for itself.

We need at least one winger to go with the Hammond signing to have even a half decent midfield.

New Winger/Mills - Gillett/Schneiderlin - Hammond - Millis/Thomson

Still not great but a huge improvment on yesterdays midfield five.

Alpine's next thread will be entitled "The sky is blue" followed by "Lorraine Kelly is not sexy"

All agreed but we saw some of the worst performances ever witnessed in a Saints shirt - James Lancashire Wotton Lallana Patterson. I suppose you have to excuse the younger ones as not ready for this league but there are no excuses for just giving the ball away and failure to make challenges in key areas. Did Lancashire win a header or mark his Swindon player - if he did I did not see it and I was there.

The midfield should be a good holding midfield general to break up attacks and give good distribution, an attacker to forage forward to support the strikers and two nippy wingers.

Arguably, we have none of those at the moment. I hope that Dean Hammond might turn out to be the midfield general and it is possible under those circumstances that Mellis might prove to be the attacking midfielder. But as for the nippy wingers, the last one of those we had was Dyer. The last player to get to the byeline and cross in was Murty, our RB.

But whereas I agree that the midfield is the problem, so is the defence.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

SUDDENLY - everyone's agreeing with Alpine.!

The long history of toughies in midfield seems to have passed us by.

Yes there is young talent there, but it needs to be nurtured amongst senior, experienced players, and those we 'aint got .

Wotton was supposed to be the fix, but he seems to have failed at that ..

come back Jimmy Case ...all is forgiven !

Alpine's next thread will be entitled "The sky is blue" followed by "Lorraine Kelly is not sexy"

Man lands on the moon next Thursday

It isn't simply about the players, it is as much about the fact that we have a collection of footballers who all play in midfield.

Burley signed what seemed thousands of them, but in reality what is wrong is that the midfield has no balance, shape or system or style. All of the players on the pitch last night do not FIT together.

MS - is he a DM? no he doesn't seem to have the bottle, but he can pass and create, yet he sits so deep he has to play Hoddle esque passes to reach a forward or a "wide man"

Lallana - an AM playing where? with the coaching pace and wisdom to beat his full back on the outside? How often does he help the FB overlap?

Wotton - DM who can't pass and lacks pace to get to the tackle in the first place

Patterson - a young run legs off striker put on the wing....

and so on and so on

The PROBLEM is that AP doesn't have the players to fit a system, all he can do is set the side up to play narrow especially if the players don't really know what they are doing

So the defence gets over-run, they lose faith in the midfield and resort to hoof-ball to one forward who has no choice but to take on 4 or 5 defenders and try to hold the ball up for the 5 minutes it takes the zero pace midfield to come up in support.

Of all the players lost in the summer, Dyer would have given some SHAPE to the midfield and the THREAT of pace. But even he would not have been consistent at his age and body size.

Major attention needed to midfield without a doubt.

We need a midfield of:

New player Hammond Gillet/Schneiderlin Mills/Holmes

The core problem so far this season is that we haven't had a robust ball winner in the middle of the park.

This was Wotton's job and he hasn't done it.

As a consequence Schneiderlin (who the jury is most definately out for me) and the wide men get no possession and the midfield cannot get any traction going forward.

It also means that our quality strikers are starved of ball and the defence gets put under non stop pressure. Inevitably they will crack, heads will drop and the whole cycle from last season is repeated.

Fingers crossed Hammond will make a big difference but we also need a quality wide man to act as an outlet for him. No good him winning ball after ball if the rest of the midfield do nothing with it.

I'd also be tempted to get a 2nd midfield general too (shame we couldn't have got the other Colchester midfielder they just sold) and put Schneiderlin on the bench.

After that I'd say we need a no nonsense centre half (Saeijs?) to create a solid defensive unit.

If we can fill these positions and keep hold of Ras\Saga then I think we have a team that will keep us clear of danger this season and hopefully push on for promotion next.

I've been impressed with what AP has brought in so far so I think we need to just get behind the team and let him get on with it.

Turning a failing team around is no easy thing but AP knows the problems and I think with everyone's support he'll get us moving in the right direction again.

I think you wiil find when the woodentop in midfield is replaced Morgan will immediately become a better player and much more consistant.

Here's a question

Can anyone remember two consecutive games in the past 3/4 years where one of our fullbacks interacted with a wide midfielder to run a proper overlap and cross more than once?

Other than CMFG & Bridgey?

Here's a question

 

Can anyone remember two consecutive games in the past 3/4 years where one of our fullbacks interacted with a wide midfielder to run a proper overlap and cross more than once?

 

Other than CMFG & Bridgey?

I was going to say Chrissy M and Wayner lol!!!!!

I was going to say Chrissy M and Wayner lol!!!!!

Well, forgive me for my memory, it was 17 years ago that I last played, but isn't the overlapping full-back a simple and fundamental way of bringing the extra man into a game to get a ball played in to an attacker from less than 50 yards?

I sort of recall watching Arsenal use it to some effect last weekend, so can ANYONE tell me why we don't seem to have done this for the past 3 years or so? Wasn't it Sir Alf's wingless wonders that brought this to the game?

Have there been some sort of UEFA Pro training courses where coaches are told overlaps are non-PC or is it simply that the players we have are ALL CM's and have never heard of the tactic.....

Well, forgive me for my memory, it was 17 years ago that I last played, but isn't the overlapping full-back a simple and fundamental way of bringing the extra man into a game to get a ball played in to an attacker from less than 50 yards?

 

I sort of recall watching Arsenal use it to some effect last weekend, so can ANYONE tell me why we don't seem to have done this for the past 3 years or so? Wasn't it Sir Alf's wingless wonders that brought this to the game?

 

Have there been some sort of UEFA Pro training courses where coaches are told overlaps are non-PC or is it simply that the players we have are ALL CM's and have never heard of the tactic.....

I always thought Ivan Golac throughout his career was one of the best overlapping full backs along with Bridge we ever had

I always thought Ivan Golac throughout his career was one of the best overlapping full backs along with Bridge we ever had

Now THOSE were the days....

But why can't they do it NOW?

Now THOSE were the days....

 

But why can't they do it NOW?

Rupert was missing that chapter in his training manual!

Now THOSE were the days....

 

But why can't they do it NOW?

Because he's 59 years old and retired from playing in 1986?

Because he's 59 years old and retired from playing in 1986?

lol

nice one.....

Ah if only.........

Rudi and bale

CB'S ARE THE PRIORITY, managers should always build from the back

Because he's 59 years old and retired from playing in 1986?

But he still be maybe better than James today at 59:D

Here's a question

 

Can anyone remember two consecutive games in the past 3/4 years where one of our fullbacks interacted with a wide midfielder to run a proper overlap and cross more than once?

 

Other than CMFG & Bridgey?

Bale and Scacel did it a lot....

The midfield should be a good holding midfield general to break up attacks and give good distribution, an attacker to forage forward to support the strikers and two nippy wingers.

 

Arguably, we have none of those at the moment. I hope that Dean Hammond might turn out to be the midfield general and it is possible under those circumstances that Mellis might prove to be the attacking midfielder. But as for the nippy wingers, the last one of those we had was Dyer. The last player to get to the byeline and cross in was Murty, our RB.

 

But whereas I agree that the midfield is the problem, so is the defence.

Jake Thompson and Lee Holmes should get a chance playing as wide men....

Bale and Scacel did it a lot....

Ah ha so we CAN still do it.......

But that was a long time ago!

I'm hoping that hammond will get schneiderlin that bit of time to show what he can do, the problem will be when he's injured or suspended. Does anyone know what sort of player plays alongside schneiderlin for france?

I'm hoping that hammond will get schneiderlin that bit of time to show what he can do, the problem will be when he's injured or suspended. Does anyone know what sort of player plays alongside schneiderlin for france?

A French one? Sorry, it's been one of those days and I've had an attack of flippancy.

I'm hoping that hammond will get schneiderlin that bit of time to show what he can do, the problem will be when he's injured or suspended. Does anyone know what sort of player plays alongside schneiderlin for france?

A young one....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_youth_football_team

Ah ha so we CAN still do it.......

 

But that was a long time ago!

I certainly agree that since GB left we never get the FB's forward. The wingers we have always seem so isolated - under JP they were stranded half the time and completely ineffective.....

I think AP really needed Hammond to support the defence and toughen up the midfield. Perhaps with new centre backs this will enable the full backs to get forward with more confidence.

Yes and no commanding CB and little width

Yeah this is the other problem, we don't have a decent centre half along with any wingers apart from Holmes who isn't fancied.

I certainly agree that since GB left we never get the FB's forward. The wingers we have always seem so isolated - under JP they were stranded half the time and completely ineffective.....

 

I think AP really needed Hammond to support the defence and toughen up the midfield. Perhaps with new centre backs this will enable the full backs to get forward with more confidence.

Which is why I think Alp's comments about it being the midfield are close to the truth, and I agree that Hammond with Mellis as the "box to box" legs may be the start of the missing "spine"

When you are left with no outlet except to hoof, it just keeps coming back at you all the time.

So we are left with the concern that if this all works well, the rest of the squad are primarily still more natural CM's.

Getting through the entire season with James, MS, Gobern, Thompson and eventually McLaggon out wide doesn't seem to have much chance of working.

Something seems to be awry with Holmes and we are left with.... no width

Possibly that is an area where we can bring in another higher quality loan

Sell a couple of players at the end of the transfer window should allow a club to replace them with the "emergency loan system"

http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50814

.........Football League clubs can have a maximum of four players under 23 and a further four players over 23 during any season on a standard loan, though no more than two of the latter can be signed from a single club. These standard loans are all done and dusted before the transfer deadline and run from window to window.

However, Football League clubs can sign players on an emergency loan for a maximum of 93 days.

An emergency loan cannot happen until seven days until after each transfer window has closed and are not allowed after the fourth Thursday in November during the first half of the season until the window reopens and after the fourth Thursday in March until the end of the campaign..........

Personally I think at least one out of the inexperienced wide youngsters will be good enough for this league next season, so a full-time sigining on a long contract may not be the best solution, but to do it the PROPER way and give them gentle increments of game time through the season would work with the cover.

Just think again like with GB we have nothing but CM's left in the squad

what was evident last night was that Swindon not only caused us problems from set pieces but going forward they looked dangerous down both flanks - an offensive threat that we just don't have

I've been saying it for ages - our MF acts as another line of defence ie almost playing in the same space - that leaves the CF's miles adrift.

I also see no determination from our MF which TBH is pathetic.

Here's a question

 

Can anyone remember two consecutive games in the past 3/4 years where one of our fullbacks interacted with a wide midfielder to run a proper overlap and cross more than once?

 

Other than CMFG & Bridgey?

Bale and Skacel did pretty well. A lot of goals came from the left flank that season.

Vignal was also pretty good at getting up and down and linked up well with Licka a couple of times under Pearson.

Ostlund could get forwards well too, although his crossing was a bit off.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

Yup, a midfield based on Gillet. Oh, wait, he hasn't played this season. And Schneiderlin, when he's been given the ball, has been our best midfielder. The problem is the one "experienced" player, Paul Wotton. No doubt you think he's the best because he's "what we need at this level". Hopefully with Hammond coming in, we will actually have someone effective in the middle of the park.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

We need a whole new team really keep Rickie and Kelvin.

We need a whole new team really keep Rickie and Kelvin.

Probably not far off the mark sadly. Too many weaks links, been the trouble for some time. Pardew will have his work cut out this season. Where is the strength? We are bullied way too easily. Oh for Stevie Williams or a Case.

We've got a couple of decent full-backs, and we have a reasonable front-line including the best forward in the division.

 

But we still have the same b*llcks in midfield, the same kids with no physical strength we had last season.

 

A midfield based on Lallana, Schneiderlin, Gillet and co. just isnt going to cut it at this level.

 

The problems are the same as the have been for years - no midfield general, nothing to link to forwards, nothing to take the pressure off the back line.

Agreed to an extent - it's not just the kids though, 50% of the problem is Wotton who is a very, very long way from being good enough and he needs to be dropped. I think I will lose all hope in AP if Wotton stays in the side alongside Hammond. What I cannot understand though is that I recognised the dire nature of the midfield at Salisbury in pre-season (and when AP was in attedance in the stands)....how long ago was THAT?! And we've only JUST signed Hammond? Perhaps it takes that long to sign Colchester's Captain?!? :confused:

I've been saying it for ages - our MF acts as another line of defence ie almost playing in the same space - that leaves the CF's miles adrift.

 

I also see no determination from our MF which TBH is pathetic.

Top post - it's there for all to see and has been for...well...5 years actually. Midfield really has been a complete gash-up of players that could not cut-it as strikers.