Special K

What's the problem? They were arrested to prevent a breach of the peace. They'll get released and dine out on the story for weeks to come. It prevented any ugly scenes, so fair enough, I say. I wouldn't worry about "1984". There just aren't enough coppers to enforce a police state.

Why do people feel the need to justify their support? Just chose whichever way you want to support the Saints and don't listen to the Ubertools who reckon you're a plastic fan if you don't go to every game.

Rab is brilliant. Some of the lines Ian Pattison writes are top drawer. Personal favourites are when Rab is looking at Mary Doll taking an afternoon nap and says "Look at that, the face that lunched a thousand chips!" Or Gash saying to Rab, "How can a spineless bastard like youse, have a bad back?!" But there are loads of quality lines. Anyone got any more? Only managed to catch a couple of episodes of the recent series. Brilliant when Rab was a terrorist, holding Richard E Grant hostage. Superb stuff.

What is it you do, just out of interest? Do you still have a mullet (assuming it was, 20 years ago)?

No, we compete very well in the same marketplace as Apple. And how do you come to the conclusion that promoting corporate standards (which is far more than individuals appearance, btw) equals business fragility? Bizarre logic, some previous bad experience maybe? I can only guess. Anyway, time for you to get back to work and earn your Boss a few quid.

It's not a prejudice Pap, it's an a normal human response. I'll seek out the best i can afford, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Part of that critera is the promotion of the company as well as the self image of the individual. I know you are using extremes in reference to goths and punks, but quite honestly, they go hand in hand with a way of thinking that doesn't necessarily sit well with corporate image.

I'm only going by what Uncle Silvio taught me.

I've always thought that Yvette Cooper might scrub up alright, given the right stylist, personal trainer and choice of decent clobber. Reckon she could be quite a honey if the conditions were right. I mean, she's not in the same class as Clegg's missus, but she could make a decent 4-pinter on a night out.

This assumes that all people who "dare to be different" through their appearance have something more to offer than those who are more conventional in their appearance, or who are "automatons", as you say. My experience is different. I care what my employees look like, because for me it gives an insight into their self respect. I've generally found that those who don't give a toss about their appearance, don't give a toss about their work (although that's not to say that there aren't some smartly dressed workshy layabouts out there too!)

If true, it will leave many an unpleasant sight - vacant, decaying out of town shopping areas that were hardly aesthetically valid in the first place. Personally, i have always found shopping in these types of stores a pretty miserable experience, so your post confirms my suspicions, especially about those awful warranty agreements.

Don't fully agree. They should have a strong sense of social responsibility and this should apply to all sectors of the financial industry. Whilst i appreciate that it is up to the individual to appraise themselves of the consequences of their actions, these companies will make the majority of their wealth by knowing they will take on a certain amount of defaulters. This is not right, especially with the lessons of the last few years. Pap is right when he says they prey on the weak. They just try and dress it up as nice as possible.

Yeah, but she did a cracking double set with Vida Garman though. Think i've still got this in the loft somewhere...

This morning i'm sure i heard Sian Williams say the word "pacific" instead of "specific". I was horrified and immediately cancelled my DD for the licence fee.

So why advertise on kids TV channels? But there is a serious point here about promoting the image that this is an ok method of personal finance. It's a last resort and shouldn't be peddled like this.

What annoys me is they let these bastards advertise on kids tv channels (Boomerang, etc). shocking really.

Thanks for sharing that. some very powerful images there.

It's hardly the point of it though is it.

Absolutely. It's pointless spending money on fancy control systems, TRV's, etc, if the heat is ****ing out of the building structure, bad windows, etc in the first place.

Pap, at the risk of sounding pedantic, calling the nipper a c**t was never offered up as a solution. Calling him a c**t was a reaction to a heinous crime. The rightful course of justice will deal with him in due course. I see that as the solution. I also don't feel it is an act worthy of trying to find an explanation. I don't think there will be any ideological drive behind it, nor do they seem to be the actions of an individulal cry for help. For me the explanation is clear. He's a horrible little **** that needs the book thrown at him.

Go back to your original point. You said he didn't know what he is doing because he's only a teenager and teenagers don't have any sense of perspective of what is right or wrong. This is what wound me up. Not only is it condescending to that vast majority of decent, knowledgable, able-to-tell-right-from-wrong young 'uns out there, it is symptomatic of the BS approach to dealing with troublesome nippers (i.e. it's easier for all to find them an excuse for what they've done than the confront the truth - that some people (nippers included) are nasty bastards that need dealing with properly). What am i doing about it? Paying my taxes to a government that administers a policing system to deal with this. Good to see you agree on the method of enforcement. My problem is not with that and i don't appreciate the inference that i advocate a string 'em up attitude to justice. My problem is with those who seek to provide an excuse for every wrongdoing or misdemeanour that occurs from supposedly "fragile" members of society. Rant over.

What a total load of old ********. Provide any excuse you like, if it makes your feel better, but the abrogation of personal responsibility through perpetual excuse finding by "i feel your pain" lefties is what is ****ing this country right up. So when do they become adults in your eyes Pap? 16? 18? Or maybe leave that until they are in their 20's and they have got over their drug habit, which of course isn't their fault, it's the fault of this nasty capitalist right wing system, blah. blah, ********. You get down here, clean the excrement off the cenotaph and give the nipper a cuddle, tell him it's not his fault, it MUST be society/hormones/young age driving him to it and watch the little **** go off thinking everyones a pushover as he commits worse crimes. Maybe he might even nick your motor so you can't drive back home. but it wouldn't be his fault though, would it, no. *Pap shrugs shoulders, laughs at teenage scamp and gets train home*

Of course he does. Don't fall into the trap of providing an excuse for ever act of wrongdoing carried out by a teenager. Too many people seek to provide **** poor excuses for acts of wrongdoing and this country is the worse for it.

Nice result.

He was tried under Scottish law through a court in the Netherlands. A panel of 5 Scottish judges refused his susequent appeal. Presumably you are saying that Scottish law is flawed? Does your username indicate that you are from north of the border, btw?

Boris Johnson would be proud.