egg

As you expect others to comment on the IDF's public statements, it's fair to ask if you agree with the Gutteres quotes above, or not...

Have you seen the destruction in Gaza? The death count? The historic attacks on civilians, including unarmed kids? That is not the actions of a peace loving nation trying desperately hard to avoid harming civilians. I'm just glad that the UN see it as it is. Not that they'll be able to do anything though. Antonio Guterres has called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, adding there are “clear violations” of international humanitarian law in the besieged enclave “Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law,” Guterres told a session of the UN Security Council. Guterres also pushed for much more humanitarian relief to be allowed into Gaza. The UN chief says it was important to recognise the attacks by Hamas “did not happen in a vacuum”. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he told UNSC members. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements, plagued by violence, their economy stifled, their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.” However, Guterres said the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the “appalling attacks” by Hamas, and which in turn could not justify the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people”. “At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles – starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.” Do you disagree with Guterres?

What do you think Israel will do with the south once they've finished in the north? If you feel that the Israeli action in the north is justified because Hamas have a presence there, presumably you believe that the same action in the south is ok?

The sheer scale and depravity of the 7/10 attacks does not alter the appalling behaviour of the Israeli government before and since. That behaviour gives no justification for Hamas actions, and imo those actions do not justify the response that we've seen. I'm not remotely interested in propaganda, but it seems like it's worked on you. You are right to judge Hamas by it's actions. We all do. Israel should also be judged in the same way.

That seems likely, but what happens when they've finished in the north? They'll doubtless turn their attention to the south. If so, the Palestinians who've been pushed south have nowhere in Gaza to go (or be safe) once the north has been flattened.

Jeez. Calling you naive was generous Hypo. Israel are not going to tell us anything other than what they want us to here. Israel have harmed Palestinians for years. Your belief that they're not doing that as part their response to the 7/10 attacks is simply astonishing.

Feck me. Israel have said it so it must be true, eh. They've been killing and maiming people, including kids for throwing stones, for years Hypo. Years ago they introduced bullets designed to disintegrate bone and the surrounding tissue, and used those on children, in the name of peace keeping. That is not the actions of a government trying to avoid harming civilians.

Behave Hypo - you're better than nonsense like that. You have as much 'evidence' that Israel aren't targeting (or as a minimum making no effort to avoid them being collateral damage) as I do that they are Your comment that "Israel are looking to reduce civilian casualties" is as naive as anything else you've posted on this thread.

I'll rely on the doctrine of common sense - 704 people have been killed in Gaza in the last 24 hours. That includes whole family's - all generations. It's beyond all logic that all these deaths, and targets, are legitimate Hamas targets. I'm in little doubt that the Hamas 'targets' are tenuous at best. Again Hypo, I'll leave it here because I can't be arsed to waste hours discussing something with you, and clogging up the thread in the process.

Path

Where's the evidence that is what has happened? Let's turn that scenario around. If Israel bombs a hospital (or a home, or a mosque, or a school) because they say that a Hamas member is there and/or attacks are being planned from there (but not being actioned from there), is that Israel legitimately targeting Hamas, or manufacturing a situation where civilians are likely to be killed or injured?

Where's the evidence that they didn't? They're taking out houses with families across all generations. Mosques. Schools. Businesses. I don't believe for one moment that they're targeting just Hamas. It seems that a Hamas target is anywhere that Israel can say that a Hamas member has attended, could attend, or may attend. It's destruction of Gaza in the name of Hamas destruction.

Essentially, yes. They said “In the following days, the IDF will continue to operate significantly in Gaza City and make extensive efforts to avoid harming civilians,” the IDF warned. “Evacuate south for your own safety and the safety of your families and distance yourself from Hamas terrorists who are using you as human shields.”

I hadn't seen that. https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/russian-president-vladimir-putin-suffers-cardiac-arrest-in-presidential-bedroom-an-insider-group-reveals/news-story/c02c8dff64dd79a4c8e53bec6ae8f3d8

There's a world of difference between Nazi Germany and Hamas. For starters, Germany wanted to occupy, whereas Hamas (and the Palestinians) are being occupied. Hamas, and the wider Palestinian resistance, will breed as a consequence of the force. Nazi Germany were an altogether different beast.

Hamas will never be eradicated though. Even if they are, there's Hezbollah, and others. Regardless, the idealogy remains, and it'll be amplified by the Israeli reprisals. Both sides are murderous, and although I can understand why the horrific behaviour of Hamas on 7/10 takes focus away from what Israel have being doing to Palestinians for a long time, the dispute needs to be looked at as a whole. Wherever people stand in this, I'm as sure as I can be that the longer Israel attack Gaza, the worse the cycle of violence will get, not better.

So your complaint is that you think that some people who in your considered opinion were inciting hate, should have been arrested. Gotcha.

I'm with SoG - I'm not sure what actual point you're trying to make. The protests in support of Palestine have been largely peaceful. Sure, there'll be idiots amongst that lot like the person shouting Jihad, and those people should be dealt with accordingly. The peaceful protesters have been treated as they should be, ie left to it.

And the police need deal with those people doing that. If you're trying to suggest that everyone peacefully opposing what the Israeli government are doing in Gaza (and the West Bank) is inciting hate, then say that.

Team

The police need only deal with people behaving in an illegal manner, to include obviously supporting Hamas.

Just noticed that. Not ideal.

Very good - took me a while 😂

Book

The issue is Israel and a Palestinian state living alongside each other. Regardless, I agree barriers will be Hamas ideology and the settlements. There's 2 way cause and effect between those 2, and no easy solution.