egg

Smaller as in not one of the big boys. This ain't 1966.

Ha!! That'd be Keegan esque. I'm off to the Potters Heron.

Thanks for the post. I'll address just the highlighted parts. I don't think that the media response has been disproportionate as such. I think it's been misleading. The masses believe that the messages on the mural were racist in nature. That's stoked a fire. People wouldn't have protested at the mural site if it had not been for the media message. Sure, some may say that they may have been protesting over the wider racist issue, but as they chose the mural site I suspect they chose that place as they because of the media message. The press have a duty to present matters factually, not misrepresent and fuel fires. I also don't attach the word disproportionate to the second part. Simply, I think the knee isn't working and I fail to see how continuing with it will stop racists being racist. I don't doubt that we need to address the issue, but persisting with something that isn't working isn't the solution.

Double yep, and nice to read respectful and considered posts.

Trying to discuss the scale of the problem is not apologising. You've insinuated that people like me are racism apologists. That's insulting and wrong. Racism is abhorrent, but so is wrongly labelling people. We know that there is racism. Normal decent people know that. There is no awareness needed there as the knowledge is present. Racists know that they're wrong, but do you honestly think that we're doing is going to stop them? Really?

The highlighted part echoes the theme in your threads. There has been zero "apologising" for the racist behaviour on here. None. Nil. Sadly, you and some others, either refuse to actually read what others are posting, or are choosing to ignore it. The point me and others are making is a simple one. There is racism in this country. There has been racism to these footballers. It is unacceptable. It needs to be eradicated. The knee and what we're doing at the moment isn't working. We don't know the solution. It's not hard to grasp if you actually read what's written and get off your high horse.

I wasn't talking about players picked in the past, my focus was on Ings (and to an extent JWP) so apologies if we were at cross purposes. I agree that some shocking players have been picked, but I think Southgate got it right with the Euro squad and I don't see any big team bias at all there. In Henderson, if he was 100% I'd have started him in the Euros personally, but as it was, Phillips in particular really surprised me and Phillips was decent too.

I disagree. Phillips and Rice play for smaller clubs. They were at the heart of our team at the Euros. White got picked ahead of players from bigger clubs. If we assume you're correct though, please explain why Southgate would pick lesser players and risk damaging his reputation.

Yep. This perceived big club bias comes from fans of smaller clubs who have the hump because their teams players don't get picked. If Ings was in form I think he'd have been picked, but after covid and injury, he wasn't quite the same and it was understandable decision. I do wander why people think an international manager (who's judged on results) might go out of his way to pick a lesser player from a bigger team. We had it with JWP too, but after the performances of Phillips and Rice that's all died down.

If I was him and saw Jack Stephens playing CM ahead of me I'd have been out of the door too.

Played for Chamberlayne in the Southampton local league...got scouted by and signed by Chelsea from under out nose on our patch. Not good!! He's captained them lots and is exactly the sort of player we need for the development team, and hopefully he can develop.

Scissor

I think (?) his point is that covid isn't a thing at all, and that every covid death is in fact a flu death. I think.

Great to see. Hopefully he can back playing at some kind of level.

Daft comments like that don't help. People aren't saying that. The point many are making is that racism does exist and shouldn't, but that giving it the airtime that we are isn't helping the situation. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how continuing to do what isn't working eill stop racists being racist and doing racist stuff. There's doing something, and there's doing something that works.

Yep, unpleasant, but not racist. The risk here is perceived context, ie an assumption that as the victim is black that there is a racial element notwithstanding the lack of any actual racism.

The grafitti in the mural was "Rashford shit in a bucket" and "Fuck Sancho". That is unpleasant but not racist. My issue is a) the dishonest misrepresentation of the defacing, and b) people's willingness to assume its racist without asking what was actually written. The other stuff I've seen posted on here from social media is blatantly racist and I hope that the perpetrators are dealt with.

I think the point being made is that Rashford and Sancho were singled out on the mural, but that their skin colour wasn't mentioned, but the perception being given is that the mural defacing was racist. If this "joke" isn't racist, why the distinction between that and the mural. It is a valid point.

Thanks for that, decent response. I query where reinforcing the message that racist behavior is socially unacceptable take us. As you say, normal people know that already, thus the only purpose could be to drill the message home to those that don't get it. That, in reality, involves a shift in mindset in those kind of people and is taking the knee etc really going to do that? I just don't see it but this approach looks like its here to stay and hopefully you're correct. On your first part, these idiots are absolutely looking for a reaction. They're doing it to cause offence, upset, distress - that's the whole purpose of harassment and abuse. They know that they're succeeding, and on a huge scale. Your view is different to mine and I respect that, but I feel that the constant focus is a double edged sword.

It's been the post euro debate in the football world. No reason why it wouldn't follow to a football forum.

Exactly that. Racism exists and sadly it always will. We can't make everyone have normal views and behaviours. The knee / protests / out crying etc all highlight that racism should not be happening. Decent people know that already. Awareness that things are wrong does not stop wrong things from being done. I find it sad that righteous people on here have called people "apologists" etc for making the point that what we're doing isn't making things better, and won't. Acceptance that the solution isn't working isn't acceptance that the underlying issue is acceptable. Moreover, as you say, the racists want a reaction and attention. They are getting that. Feed a troll and it comes back for more. Starve it and it dies. Platforms are an issue, but the public and media are giving the attention. The media's dishonesty and misrepresentation is also fuelling a fire - I'd wager that 90% of people think that there was racist words on that mural. Let's keep any debate respectful and honest. As to the underlying issue, I think it'll fade further in time. I think back to attitudes in the 80's on race, homosexuality and other issues. Fortunately we're a million miles from that.

Brothers

Jeez, sounds rough and I'm glad that you're on the mend mate.

FFS. You've been reading too much Collinsdic mate.

The loan system can be an earner if wages are all covered and a loan fee paid. Selling the player at some point adds a cherry to the cake. This bit of business (contract or loan) makes no sense to me on any level.