Holding the ball up

Imo the thing that is stopping our attacking play from being as good as it used to is that we no longer have or play with a striker capable of holding the ball up Al la Lambert or Pelle allowing our midfield to catch up and overlap . Some people will say "we no longer play that way" but it worked so well for 5 or 6 years maybe we need to find that type of striker in january and go back to what served us so well in the past !?

Remember the Sims break away against Liverpool in the semi final?

My fears are the players are being stopped from breaking out in numbers and attacking with speed.

I get the impression Pellegrino is saying hold the ball up and that way the other team can’t hurt us.

Remember the Sims break away against Liverpool in the semi final?

My fears are the players are being stopped from breaking out in numbers and attacking with speed.

I get the impression Pellegrino is saying hold the ball up and that way the other team can’t hurt us.

I was thinking that. Had a couple of chances to break on Brighton first half and put ourselves in situations to create chances and checked back. I know the team isn't the quickest, and Sims is quick (and injured) but it does look like a plan.

Remember the Sims break away against Liverpool in the semi final?

My fears are the players are being stopped from breaking out in numbers and attacking with speed.

I get the impression Pellegrino is saying hold the ball up and that way the other team can’t hurt us.

This may be true - but if we are not going to hold the ball up then we have to have runners going either side of the player with the ball every time it goes up top. We don't appear to have either, Gabbi can't hold the ball up and needs it threaded into his run, but we don't have a player who can play that pass. When we try to build up, invariably we do it so slow there is a brick wall in front of us by the time we try a hopeful cross into the box, or even rarer, a shot at goal.

We are far, far too cautious either way we try and play. Time for the manager to let the shackles off in a controlled way, speed the attacking play up and encourage runners to back up the player on the ball.

Unless we can find somebody who can score regularly from the half way line, we need to sort out what happens when we get into the attacking half of the field.

I was thinking that. Had a couple of chances to break on Brighton first half and put ourselves in situations to create chances and checked back. I know the team isn't the quickest, and Sims is quick (and injured) but it does look like a plan.

TBF in the all the doom and gloom we made one classic counter-attack towards the end of the first half, we intercepted in front of our own D, VvD carried it over half way through their broken midfield, he relayed it to the right (JWP or Tadic prob) who quickly played Cedric in on the overlap, Brighton defence all over the shop and we had 3 players in distinct scoring positions in the box, Cedric hammered it over to no-one in particular, Brighton cleaned up and a really good scoring chance went begging. He didn't need to cross blindly, he had time and space to look up and pass it into the middle, we had 3 players all available.

TBF he (Cedric) did that all game, he got forward (well) but I can't remember one cross going vaguely near where it was intended. Corners were also a shambles, I don't think we won one header in their box all game, VvD and Hoedt regularly came fd but the ball in was nowhere near them.

In the big scheme of things one of the problems was that we scored about 75 minutes too early! My game plan was to have just enough for them, weather their early onslaught, bore the home crowd into submission (sod the away fans!), keep a clean sheet, and then nick it 1-0 late on. Only two problems with that plan: a)we don't always score (we did yesterday, yay!) and b) we are pretty good at the back but we can't guarantee a clean sheet if the keeper can't produce the ONE fairly routine save he's required to make.

You have to wonder whether we had any sort of plan B lined up yesterday? Bonus early goal and keeping the ball well but you have to think that game was won/lost/drawn on the two half time talks. MPe needs to wise up very quickly that 1-0 at HT isn't a winning lead or a game-over situation in any PL fixture. Obvs Brighton were going to come steaming out, we needed disciplined defence and purposeful counter attacking and decent set pieces and we got neither, just meh.

This may be true - but if we are not going to hold the ball up then we have to have runners going either side of the player with the ball every time it goes up top. We don't appear to have either, Gabbi can't hold the ball up and needs it threaded into his run, but we don't have a player who can play that pass. When we try to build up, invariably we do it so slow there is a brick wall in front of us by the time we try a hopeful cross into the box, or even rarer, a shot at goal.

 

We are far, far too cautious either way we try and play. Time for the manager to let the shackles off in a controlled way, speed the attacking play up and encourage runners to back up the player on the ball.

 

Unless we can find somebody who can score regularly from the half way line, we need to sort out what happens when we get into the attacking half of the field.

From the first game I saw us play last season it was glaringly obvious that there was a massive space between the lone front man and the rest of the team . Why we have gone from 1 big man with 2 smaller quick players playing around him to the way we play now I'll never know .

We are one decent strong tall striker away from being a top 7 Club

That's what Everton say. Easier said than done.

Remember the Sims break away against Liverpool in the semi final?

My fears are the players are being stopped from breaking out in numbers and attacking with speed.

I get the impression Pellegrino is saying hold the ball up and that way the other team can’t hurt us.

All good in principle, but MP fails to recognise that with a keeper that concedes probably 30% of the shots he faces (would love to see the stats on this), we will still likely concede no matter how well we are set up defensively

Puel was terrified of the counter attack. The fear of it paralysed him completely and filtered through to the team. Pellegrino seems exactly the same. Why we got rid of Puel to replace him with this Chump is a mystery. We were all led to believe it would change when he was appointed, but nothing has changed at all. Maybe some of it is down to the players - our creative midfielders are so poor that when trying to be progressive they give the ball away repeatedly and that leads to even less risk taking as the expectation is that we will concede possession as soon as the ball goes to them. So how we have played nearly every minute of this season with either or both Tadic and Redmond in the side is the biggest indictment of Pellegrino I can put forward.

You gotta speed it up, and then you gotta slow it down.

And soon you will find that there comes a time for holding the ball up.

Holding it up may be an issue but the bigger problem is that after we win the ball back from the opposition, which we do well, we then give it away by either hoofing it, fannying around with it or misplacing passes, all of our back 4 and Romeu were very guilty of this on Sunday. Also Forster seems unable to deliver the ball to a team mate (though I will concede he did roll the ball out once in the Brighton match something hardly ever seen from him before). Yes it would be great if we had someone to hold it up but it is revisionism at its best to suggest that Pelle did this for us. No-one has done this consistently since SRL. I'm sure Gabbi could hold the ball up if anyone could ever get the ball to him in the first place.

Puel was terrified of the counter attack. The fear of it paralysed him completely and filtered through to the team. Pellegrino seems exactly the same. Why we got rid of Puel to replace him with this Chump is a mystery. We were all led to believe it would change when he was appointed, but nothing has changed at all. Maybe some of it is down to the players - our creative midfielders are so poor that when trying to be progressive they give the ball away repeatedly and that leads to even less risk taking as the expectation is that we will concede possession as soon as the ball goes to them. So how we have played nearly every minute of this season with either or both Tadic and Redmond in the side is the biggest indictment of Pellegrino I can put forward.

Yeah, I'm going to second this. Not that I'm suggesting he was specifically terrified But to point to one specific example of a counter-attack as if it were indicative of our general play is slightly misleading. Never have we been so opposed to the counter attack as we were under Puel (in recent years). Not that I agree with the rest of the paragraph (and that isn't a criticism of Puel before anyone gets huffy, just an observation of his preferred style of tactics)

It’s more mixing it up than holding it up. We’re way way too predictable. I’m all for controlling the ball, but unless you’re City, Arsenal on a good day or Barça, it can be easy to defend against. Apart from Long who can’t hit a cows arse with a banjo we arent capable of getting behind sides, we certainly don’t have any midfielders that get beyond the strikers. We can’t knock a long “ get out “ ball because we haven’t got a Pelle to fight for it, again Longs the nearest we’ve got. We don’t even seem to get our full backs in decent positions very much this season. Gabbi has got incredibly clever movement but it’s wasted because the opposition are set defensively by the time we’re ready to pick him out. The system is clearly not working and we need to do something different. Long & Gabbi look an ok pair to me, he needs to find a solution that can give us that. This season reminds me of Shane Warnes Monty Panesar quote about him not playing 40 tests but playing one test 40 times. We haven’t played 11 games this season, we’ve played the same game 11 times. ****ing change it man.

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We are one decent strong tall striker away from being a top 7 Club

I'm sorry but that's rubbish - We will not get a better CF than Gabi, who IMO is top class. I feel for him a bit as he just isn't getting the service.

What we are lacking is someone out wide who has a bit of creativity and pace.

Our build up play is so slow and narrow (only our FB's give us any width) it is so easy to play against us.

We don't need a tall CF to hit with the long ball time and time again (it would be nice to have one on the bench to bring on if needed), we need players who can break and counter at pace. Leicester won the league playing this way...

I'm sorry but that's rubbish - We will not get a better CF than Gabi, who IMO is top class. I feel for him a bit as he just isn't getting the service.

 

What we are lacking is someone out wide who has a bit of creativity and pace.

 

Our build up play is so slow and narrow (only our FB's give us any width) it is so easy to play against us.

 

We don't need a tall CF to hit with the long ball time and time again (it would be nice to have one on the bench to bring on if needed), we need players who can break and counter at pace. Leicester won the league playing this way...

Huh? Our problem is the complete opposite of this. We have almost nothing through the middle, so the ball invariably ends up being slowly cycled out to either wing for a cross.

As they said on MOTD2 when we had the chance no one was pushing upto the Brighton defence when we were in possession, the graphic just showed a wilderness of no Saints players outside the centre of the Brighton box on more than one occasion.

Watching Lemina the other week, I think against Newcastle he was doing his nut at the lack of pace and movement in front of him when he had the ball.

Said it before we just play like its a game of playground Wobbling Jelly or Whats the time Mr Wolf!!

As they said on MOTD2 when we had the chance no one was pushing upto the Brighton defence when we were in possession, the graphic just showed a wilderness of no Saints players outside the centre of the Brighton box on more than one occasion.

Watching Lemina the other week, I think against Newcastle he was doing his nut at the lack of pace and movement in front of him when he had the ball.

Said it before we just play like its a game of playground Wobbling Jelly or Whats the time Mr Wolf!!

Yup, there's almost never any movement in the centre. It's like they've been coached that as long as they have a clear sight of the player on the ball, they should stay put to keep the easy passing lane open. You see this particularly from Davis and JWP when they're playing behind the striker - they always want to be open for the pass, which usually involves milling about ten or fifteen yards behind where they need to be to trouble the opposition defence. There was a fifteen minute spell towards the end against Newcastle when Lemina and Boufal were both in the middle, close to the opposition box, and they were both constantly in motion, looking to create space rather than just occupy it - we need more of that, but I'm not convinced its in Pellegrino's coaching manual.

I'm sorry but that's rubbish - We will not get a better CF than Gabi, who IMO is top class. I feel for him a bit as he just isn't getting the service.

 

What we are lacking is someone out wide who has a bit of creativity and pace.

 

Our build up play is so slow and narrow (only our FB's give us any width) it is so easy to play against us.

 

We don't need a tall CF to hit with the long ball time and time again (it would be nice to have one on the bench to bring on if needed), we need players who can break and counter at pace. Leicester won the league playing this way...

I disagree this season and last we have had the highest number of crosses in the league (and the quality of the crosses leaves something to be desired) getting out wide banging in crosses hasn't been the issue and isn't playing to the strengths of any of our current strikers both Gabbi and Long would be more effective with early balls over the top into space or decent through balls down the channels were they can turn the opposition CBs around neither of them want to be wrestling with CBs with their backs to goal or trying to get their heads on high crosses.

Austin would work better with balls from out wide but only if he is basically made to stay as close to the opposition penalty box as possible and other players actually get into the opposition box as to make space for Austin rather than the usual 4-5 opposition players and one saints player we normally see.

I actually liked that we tried to play more one twos through the middle against west brom rather than the endless crosses from out we usual try.

Not sure Gabbi is a target man or particularly suited to 4-3-3, 4-5-1 type systems.

With the players we've got I think we'd be better off getting Lemina higher up the pitch (top of a diamond), with Boufal and Gabbi as the two strikers in front of him. Depending on oppo and home/away you can then perm two from Dav/Hoj/JWP/McQueen?/Stephens?? to play either side of Romeu. Long and Redmond as the change-it fd options.

You would still have a fairly static/pedestrian midfield but you would at least get three of our better players closer together, nearer to their goal and causing the oppo problems.