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Thread: VAR

  1. #1

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    I guess everyone will have an opinion on it.

    Does anyone have an idea/record of how many VAR decisions have gone for/against us this season?

    I wonder if they do level out.

  2. #2

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    Early on we seemed to get quite a few go for us.

    The two worst decisions have been Bertrand's and Djenepo's red cards. Both harsh and overruling the ref's decision made close to the action in real time.

    Handballs recently have gone against us.

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  3. #3

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    The main problems I had with yesterdays decisions was the time it took to make them. If your looking at it for more than 10 seconds and can't decide, move on.

  4. #4

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    2 wolves goals disallowed at Molineux both close that would have stood without VAR. we got a draw

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Early on we seemed to get quite a few go for us.

    The two worst decisions have been Bertrand's and Djenepo's red cards. Both harsh and overruling the ref's decision made close to the action in real time.

    Handballs recently have gone against us.

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    Djenepo's red was rightly a red. I'm amazed some think that was harsh and var didn't overrule the ref. The ref went and had a look on the pitch side screen and issued the red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shance View Post
    Djenepo's red was rightly a red. I'm amazed some think that was harsh and var didn't overrule the ref. The ref went and had a look on the pitch side screen and issued the red.
    That's not really accurate. The ref WAS overruled because he'd decided yellow. He didn't choose to review it. He was advised by the VAR ref to look at the screen where, against the protocol, he was shown a slow motion replay which made it look very different.

    There was no intent. It wasn't violent. It wasn't a stamp. It was a slightly mistimed tackle.

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    That's not really accurate. The ref WAS overruled because he'd decided yellow. He didn't choose to review it. He was advised by the VAR ref to look at the screen where, against the protocol, he was shown a slow motion replay which made it look very different.

    There was no intent. It wasn't violent. It wasn't a stamp. It was a slightly mistimed tackle.

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    The referee makes the final decision. All VAR can do is advise him and it advised him to give a red pending him checking the footage. It doesn't matter if Djenepo meant it or not. He left his foot in and was too slow. Ergo it became a dangerous and reckless challenge. Red was the right call and the other player was very lucky not to leave on a stretcher.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shance View Post
    The referee makes the final decision. All VAR can do is advise him and it advised him to give a red pending him checking the footage. It doesn't matter if Djenepo meant it or not. He left his foot in and was too slow. Ergo it became a dangerous and reckless challenge. Red was the right call and the other player was very lucky not to leave on a stretcher.
    To say he was too slow is slightly ridiculous. I was there and it happened right in front of me. I've described what happened.

    He didn't "leave his foot in". That implies intent, which wasn't the case. The defender slid in and Djenepo's foot, which was in the action of making a block, landed on the leg. It wasn't dangerous or reckless. He got straight up and carried on.

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    To say he was too slow is slightly ridiculous. I was there and it happened right in front of me. I've described what happened.

    He didn't "leave his foot in". That implies intent, which wasn't the case. The defender slid in and Djenepo's foot, which was in the action of making a block, landed on the leg. It wasn't dangerous or reckless. He got straight up and carried on.

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    He was miles away from the ball. You can't rake your studs down someones shin like that and expect to stay on the pitch, accident or not.

    And you being there 50 yards away means absolutely nothing.

  10. #10

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    The whole incident came from him over-hitting the ball and losing it to then try and lunge in to get it back completely missing the ball as the defender made the tackle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shance View Post
    He was miles away from the ball. You can't rake your studs down someones shin like that and expect to stay on the pitch, accident or not.

    And you being there 50 yards away means absolutely nothing.
    Saying he raked studs proves you are just making it up now to suit your version. Didn't happen. You've clearly made up your mind, and so have I. We disagree. Move on.

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Saying he raked studs proves you are just making it up now to suit your version. Didn't happen. You've clearly made up your mind, and so have I. We disagree. Move on.

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    Raked is pushing it but I've seen the incident about 35 times. It was a red. The only people I've seen defending it are saints fans as well. Says all you need to know really.

  13. #13

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    Like I said, it came from him over-hitting the ball and lunging in to get it back, planting his foot on the defenders shin as he wasn't in quick enough. Red card.

  14. #14

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    Looking at the replay you can see there was little intent, but he missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    For me, sadly a red card, correctly ruled via VAR.

    So why on earth did they not even judge the similar situation on Bertrand?
    Their guy missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    I'm not saying it was a definite red because there seems to be a media blackout on showing it and I'd like to see a replay, but why didn't they even look at it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    Looking at the replay you can see there was little intent, but he missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    For me, sadly a red card, correctly ruled via VAR.

    So why on earth did they not even judge the similar situation on Bertrand?
    Their guy missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    I'm not saying it was a definite red because there seems to be a media blackout on showing it and I'd like to see a replay, but why didn't they even look at it?
    This is what really annoys me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    Looking at the replay you can see there was little intent, but he missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    For me, sadly a red card, correctly ruled via VAR.

    So why on earth did they not even judge the similar situation on Bertrand?
    Their guy missed the ball, was over-committed and risked serious injury to the opponent.
    I'm not saying it was a definite red because there seems to be a media blackout on showing it and I'd like to see a replay, but why didn't they even look at it?
    I saw it at the time fairly close up on the way downstairs and then a replay in the concourse. Looked like Bertie got studs in the guts. Challenge was certainly late, difficult to pull out but certainly didn't kick out. Thought yellow was fair at the time.

    I suspect a lot more is looked at on VAR than we are aware of at the time...

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    The other day I saw a league table if VAR hadn’t been used and we were deemed to have been 5pts worse off and 15th I think. So according to them we are +5pts to the good due to VAR. Brighton would be bottom if it wasn’t for VAR (according to the article).

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
    I saw it at the time fairly close up on the way downstairs and then a replay in the concourse. Looked like Bertie got studs in the guts. Challenge was certainly late, difficult to pull out but certainly didn't kick out. Thought yellow was fair at the time.

    I suspect a lot more is looked at on VAR than we are aware of at the time...
    You've described the Djenepo challenge very well. I agree, yellow would have been right.

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  19. Default VAR

    It was clearly a red and the VAR worked perfectly in tandem with the referee, reaching the right decision.

    Had their guy deserved a red, the VAR would have advised the ref to review that as well.

    Some people are so biased they canít see whatís bleeding obvious. I doubt thereís one neutral who thought either decision wrong.






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  20. #20

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    Djenepo's was a clear red and if the tackle had been on a Saints player everyone on here would rightly be demanding a red. I had a guy next to me in the Kingsland who was booing VAR because of the red and the penalty, but was then chanting for it when Bertie got clattered. No perspective some people.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shance View Post
    He was miles away from the ball. You can't rake your studs down someones shin like that and expect to stay on the pitch, accident or not.

    And you being there 50 yards away means absolutely nothing.
    That's not what happened. Djenepo was planting his foot down in a normal motion and the opponent stretched his foot and ankle out right in Djenepo's path. Nothing about raking his studs down someone's shin. It was the sort of thing that happens plenty of times in those circumstances.

    Yellow was correct. Stop looking at these things in slow motion, it gives a false impression of what happened.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    It was clearly a red and the VAR worked perfectly in tandem with the referee, reaching the right decision.

    Had their guy deserved a red, the VAR would have advised the ref to review that as well.

    Some people are so biased they can’t see what’s bleeding obvious. I doubt there’s one neutral who thought either decision wrong.
    I have seen comments on the TV coverage saying that Djenepo was 'unlucky'.

    As for the alleged handball whyt was it that nobody on the pitch at the time thought that there was anythng wrong with it? It was his shoulder, above the armpit. I have seen other similar instances this season where that was not given as handball.

    As with all these VAR interjections, let's please have some sort of consistency. It seems to me that we are getting less of it.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    That's not what happened. Djenepo was planting his foot down in a normal motion and the opponent stretched his foot and ankle out right in Djenepo's path. Nothing about raking his studs down someone's shin. It was the sort of thing that happens plenty of times in those circumstances.

    Yellow was correct. Stop looking at these things in slow motion, it gives a false impression of what happened.
    That's my interpretation too. The ref saw it in real time and gave yellow. He watched the slo-mo replay (you could see that on MOTD) and then gave red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    I have seen comments on the TV coverage saying that Djenepo was 'unlucky'.

    As for the alleged handball whyt was it that nobody on the pitch at the time thought that there was anythng wrong with it? It was his shoulder, above the armpit. I have seen other similar instances this season where that was not given as handball.

    As with all these VAR interjections, let's please have some sort of consistency. It seems to me that we are getting less of it.
    the penalty was loudicrous.
    SB was being tugged back, which is why he learnt forward and the ball hit his upper arm, crazy

  25. #25

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    In case anyone doesn't think VAR is broken, just remember the Burnley non-handball and compare it with Boufal's.
    And if you insist that both of those decisions were correct, other than the usual suspects who just do it for attention, I don't know where to start!

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    The argument that poor VAR decisions even out over a season are as non-sensical as saying that poor referring decisions even themselves out. No they don’t just as if you toss a coin 100 times the chances of it being heads 50% of the time are small.

  27. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    In case anyone doesn't think VAR is broken, just remember the Burnley non-handball and compare it with Boufal's.
    And if you insist that both of those decisions were correct, other than the usual suspects who just do it for attention, I don't know where to start!
    The biggest VAR failure weíve been involved in was the handball against Watford. The rules are very clear & the goal should have been disallowed. Who knows where our season would be if that goal had been correctly ruled out.

    VAR isnít some robot itís a bloke that had a different opinion than you, thatís it. Just because a decision went against you doesnít make it ďbrokenĒ.


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  28. #28

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    VAR will be good when decisions are made consistently. We are told the referee won't use the pitch-side screen but on occasion they do when told to by VAR official. Showing an incident in slow motion as against the normal speed should not determine that a decision should be changed. If some incidents are seen by refs pitch-side all decisions should be made by the same criteria.

  29. #29

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    VAR generally isn't doing what it was brought in to do which is to just overturn clear and obvious errors.

  30. #30

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    All I ever ask of referees and VAR checks is consistency.
    I don't need to agree with them, I would just like to see the same rules being applied to both teams and in similar ways by all refs.
    Is that too much to ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    All I ever ask of referees and VAR checks is consistency.
    I don't need to agree with them, I would just like to see the same rules being applied to both teams and in similar ways by all refs.
    Is that too much to ask?
    The problem is a lot of rules are open to interpretation it seems no two refs can agree on what a foul is/or isn't and what is/or isn't worthy of a yellow or a red card. Even in the same game you will see refs give two near identical fouls a different outcome. Under those circumstances consistency is really hard to achieve. What is really need to achieve consistency is for any ambiguity to be removed from the rules to make them clear yes/no issues but doing that would change the game in ways people wouldn't like.

  32. #32

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    You wouldn't send the players out individually without some strategy - surely the refs have training sessions and meet-ups where they agree a party line on interpreting and implementing laws?
    There seems to be no leadership.

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    VAR is fine for line decisions - essentially offsides, but for subjective decisions such as handball or serious foul play there is always going to be interpretation and therefore a sense of different decisions and potentially bias. The VAR will not be able to see every piece of action from the same set of camera angles so some similar actions (fouls, handballs) will be treated differently in different parts of the pitch as the camera shots will not always allow the VAR to see clearly what happened. The other factor is everyone - fans in the ground, viewers and players want the decisions made very quickly so there is always a time pressure in getting the right information to assist the ref on the pitch.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboy View Post
    You wouldn't send the players out individually without some strategy - surely the refs have training sessions and meet-ups where they agree a party line on interpreting and implementing laws?
    There seems to be no leadership.
    Yes they do have regular gatherings where Mike Riley tells them how they should interpret various situations.

    In my days of refereeing it was said that it was too much to expect perfect widespread consistency across the whole game but that you have a right to expect consistency within any one match.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanh View Post
    VAR is fine for line decisions - essentially offsides, but for subjective decisions such as handball or serious foul play there is always going to be interpretation and therefore a sense of different decisions and potentially bias. The VAR will not be able to see every piece of action from the same set of camera angles so some similar actions (fouls, handballs) will be treated differently in different parts of the pitch as the camera shots will not always allow the VAR to see clearly what happened. The other factor is everyone - fans in the ground, viewers and players want the decisions made very quickly so there is always a time pressure in getting the right information to assist the ref on the pitch.
    Totally agree about the subjectivity, VAR cannot differentiate, it's a matter of opinion. One person might say it was yellow, another red. One person might say it's a penalty, another person not, it's all still about opinions. Personally I would do away with VAR apart from using it for offside calls. We have goal line technology which works perfectly well and nobody moans about it, just change the name of VAR to non-goal line technology, use it for offsides only, and get on with the game.

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  36. #36

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    There will always be opinions, but referees must surely agree on whether a shoulder is handball or not, and whether to book or send off an attacker for diving, when a Liverpool defender fouls them in the box.
    There must be a vague level of consistency, we can't have twenty refs running their own interpretations on everything.

  37. #37

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    https://www.givemesport.com/1554018-...-statistically

    Scott was the abysmal ref last Saturday


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