Goal keeping debate

[Bridge]

In my humble opinion I think Kevin Davis is one of the weak links in the side at the moment.

 

+ He is an ok shot stopper at times. His distribution is ok and that’s about it.

 

- No presence in the box. Poor at corners and crosses. Poor at set pieces.

 

One other thing for me is when someone does a back pass to him he just waits a little to long on the ball before he kicks it. Leaving me with my heart in my mouth every time he does this.

 

Even watching him warm up he doesn’t look as good as Bartosz.

 

What do others think?

Can anyone name a better keeper other than Bart for the job?

[Saint_clark]

I was disappointed when Bart was dropped tbh, he looked on better form than Davis so really didn't deserve it.

[Mao Cap]

Really? I thought we sold him to Blackburn in about 1998.

[LostBoys]

He did not have a good game yesterday.

[the mick channon windmill]

personally i think bart should be our first choice keeper

[Ponty]

KD is a really, really good keeper for this league and the one above it. Yes there are mistakes but Bart is also prone to them. Bart was playing well when dropped for KD but he's had periods in the past when he's not even looked non-league standard. I think we're just blessed with two keepers who, on their day, are the best in the league but who can also have you tearing your hair out and I think that leads to a bit of "grass is always greener" syndrome when the one who's playing makes a mistake.

[VectisSaint]

I was shocked yesterday when KD came out for a cross (corner?) and took it with aplomb. He showed he can do it, maybe he forgot where he was or something. It is so unusual for him to do this that it really stood out for me.

 

Great shot stopper, probably one of the best. But like David James not good at other parts of his game, especially distribution. Always the same tactic, big boot down the middle to the head of RL, I wonder does he ever consider playing a short ball to one of the full backs not only to build from the back, but also to guarantee possession. Long boot down the middle gives us at best 50% chance of retaining possession, probably less. I don't suggest that you never do this, but some variety would help.

 

Bart has better presence in the area, and is better at dealing with crosses. I don't think he is as good a shot stopper though.

[Huffton]

Can anyone name a better keeper other than Bart for the job?

 

Yeah. Kelvin Davis:rolleyes:

[Ponty]

They've both saved their share of penalties this season too, unless I'm mistaken.

 

We're just lucky to have the choice.

[Barry the Badger]

I think the trouble for KD is that a lot of us have gotten used to his shot stopping and take some of those saves for granted. He is stil a quality keeper for this league.

[Window Cleaner]

In my humble opinion I think Kevin Davis is one of the weak links in the side at the moment.

 

+ He is an ok shot stopper at times. His distribution is ok and that’s about it.

 

- No presence in the box. Poor at corners and crosses. Poor at set pieces.

 

One other thing for me is when someone does a back pass to him he just waits a little to long on the ball before he kicks it. Leaving me with my heart in my mouth every time he does this.

 

Even watching him warm up he doesn’t look as good as Bartosz.

 

What do others think?

Can anyone name a better keeper other than Bart for the job?

 

 

I don't know, he came out and picked off a couple of corners pretty well yesterday.

[Chez]

Kelvin has been terrific ALL season. Christ some of you have incredibly short memories.

[saint stu 20]

its like ive been saying for months, he was one of the best players in a poor saints side last season....therefore gaining hero status....but everytime we seem to conceed a goal im thinking a better keeper could have saved those....not saying bart is the answer but i definately think he is a better keeper than KD and was very harshly taken out of the side!

[surrey1saint]

I think there is very little between the 2 at the moment.

My view is that if Bart was given regular 1st team games,he would become our best keeper.

[krissyboy31]

Kelvin has been terrific ALL season. Christ some of you have incredibly short memories.

 

I think he's been pretty poor this season tbh. Last season, well then I'd agree with you but If Bart had been in goal yesterday, IMO he would have kept 2 of their goals out.

[SFC Forever]

That is what I have said before. Bart was a good keeper for us and until his injury he was being really rated by most on here and elsewhere. He needs to play so as we are preparing for our all out assault on the title next season why not see whether he can handle it.

I personally think that he can and will. The added bonus being that he should improve with the games as well. AP should put him in goal and tell him he is there for the rest of the season. At least that way he would have the chance to get over any nervousness he feels at the beginning.

If he fails then we need another goalie before next season starts..

[SaintRichmond]

I was shocked yesterday when KD came out for a cross (corner?) and took it with aplomb. He showed he can do it, maybe he forgot where he was or something. It is so unusual for him to do this that it really stood out for me.

 

Great shot stopper, probably one of the best. But like David James not good at other parts of his game, especially distribution. Always the same tactic, big boot down the middle to the head of RL, I wonder does he ever consider playing a short ball to one of the full backs not only to build from the back, but also to guarantee possession. Long boot down the middle gives us at best 50% chance of retaining possession, probably less. I don't suggest that you never do this, but some variety would help.

 

Bart has better presence in the area, and is better at dealing with crosses. I don't think he is as good a shot stopper though.

 

Davis is very lacking in stopping low shots either side ( 3 yesterday ?? ) To me, he never seems to narrow the angle enough, giving the forward more of the goal to aim for

 

A few years ago, we brought Neimi back after injury, at the expense of Smith, who was playing well at the time. It took a long time before people accepted that Niemi was well past his sell by date, and was living on past glories ..... or what was written into his contract even .:cool:

[SaintRichmond]

That is what I have said before. Bart was a good keeper for us and until his injury he was being really rated by most on here and elsewhere. He needs to play so as we are preparing for our all out assault on the title next season why not see whether he can handle it.

I personally think that he can and will. The added bonus being that he should improve with the games as well. AP should put him in goal and tell him he is there for the rest of the season. At least that way he would have the chance to get over any nervousness he feels at the beginning.

If he fails then we need another goalie before next season starts..

 

Plus of course, If still in Div 1, we will need a few more players to replace those that will want to be in higher Division teams.:cool:

[CitySaint]

I said to my Dad yesterday, that the difference was basically in the keepers, james made 3-4 quality saves and I don't think Kelvin made one. Not saying we could have a keeper of James' standard, but you expect a bit better from a keeper of your own. He also did not cover himself in glory on Tuesday either. Don't think Bart did a lot wrong when Kelvin was out, and I think it was a bit unfair directly replacing him.

[Baldsaint]

There isn't a better, or more loyal, keeper in League 1. His only real weakness is coming for corners but this isn't his fault, it's Pardews. Getting 11 men in the box, plus the opposition, gives him no real chance to come out and claim the ball with any real certainty. Keep 2 men up on the half way line (yesterday Papa and Antonio) and let your defenders defend, then KD can collect the ball more easily and get an attack going with 2 quick targets.

[SaintRichmond]

Kelvin has been terrific ALL season. Christ some of you have incredibly short memories.

 

Including you my friend

 

I think you will find that the general consensus is that at least TWO of their goals yesterday SHOULD have been stopped

 

Davis HAS declined in ability this season. He cannot stop anything placed either side of him:cool:

 

James did..... many times:D

[krissyboy31]

Including you my friend

 

I think you will find that the general consensus is that at least TWO of their goals yesterday SHOULD have been stopped

 

Davis HAS declined in ability this season. He cannot stop anything placed either side of him:cool:

 

James did..... many times:D

 

If James had been in our goal and Davis in theirs, we would have won the game.

[SaintRichmond]

I said to my Dad yesterday, that the difference was basically in the keepers, james made 3-4 quality saves and I don't think Kelvin made one. Not saying we could have a keeper of James' standard, but you expect a bit better from a keeper of your own. He also did not cover himself in glory on Tuesday either. Don't think Bart did a lot wrong when Kelvin was out, and I think it was a bit unfair directly replacing him.

 

Spot on IMHO

 

The reason of course is that Davis, having made the supreme sacrifice of declining to sit on the West Ham bench looking at Robert Green, had a "must play at all times if fit" clause put in his contract

 

Irrespective of whether his form merits it or not

 

Bart WAS playing well, and gaining confidence. He should NOT have been dropped.

 

BAD Manager's decision IMHO:cool:

[ottery st mary]

There isn't a better, or more loyal, keeper in League 1. His only real weakness is coming for corners but this isn't his fault, it's Pardews. Getting 11 men in the box, plus the opposition, gives him no real chance to come out and claim the ball with any real certainty. Keep 2 men up on the half way line (yesterday Papa and Antonio) and let your defenders defend, then KD can collect the ball more easily and get an attack going with 2 quick targets.

 

Saw this with Pompey.....

A third player was pushed back up to the half way line and suddenly we had three defenders back..

The third being Thomas who was rightfully arguing that he should be in the pompey area attacking the ball..

Therefore are defenders half way line with no legs and no real pressure in their goal mouth for our corners or free kicks....

[CitySaint]

I don't think thst because he stayed with us, he should play every week. Loyalty is a rare and fantastic commodity in football now, but Kelvin's decision was based upon his own factors, will play every week here, good new contract, not up-rooting his family etc. Only a small percentage of that decision was down to a 'love of Southampton'. I think last year was fantastic, in a poor team (but he had a lot of practive). No player should be automatically in the side, every player must be judged on their current appearances and I believe Kelvin (at present, and only at present) is our second best keeper.

[kelkel31]

Kelvin has been terrific ALL season. Christ some of you have incredibly short memories.

 

that is a view point, but should we be blinded by the world class work he does to the point were you ignore, if you look carefully the simple saves he fails to make.

 

he is a great servant of the club, capable of producing world class saves but im not sure he saves us more points that he gains, especially when you take into account he has a game where he makes loads of point making saves, then 3 or 4 when hes largely missing.

 

if i was pardew, this wouldnt be my simplest selection on the team sheet and as such i bow to his better knowledge and daily involvement.

 

anyway at the very least kelvin deserves saints fans respect for what he gives to the club, both on and off it!

[sadoldgit]

Couldn't fault Davis for any of the goals yesterday as he was left exposed by the lack of defenders. Made a really good save from O'Hara and is still a decent enough keeper for our purposes.

[krissyboy31]

Couldn't fault Davis for any of the goals yesterday as he was left exposed by the lack of defenders. Made a really good save from O'Hara and is still a decent enough keeper for our purposes.

 

You didn't see him move away from his post to give Belhadj a nice little gap to slot the ball in then?

[VectisSaint]

I said to my Dad yesterday, that the difference was basically in the keepers, james made 3-4 quality saves and I don't think Kelvin made one.

You are joking I assume, the save from O'Hara's long range shot was terrific. People are raving about James' saves, but he only really made one, he lucked out with a couple of others and showed everyone that he can still be Calamity James. Really don't think KD could have done much about the goals, Quincy fooled him a bit for his goal but that to a large extent was down to some very clever play.

[John B]

I said to my Dad yesterday, that the difference was basically in the keepers, james made 3-4 quality saves and I don't think Kelvin made one. Not saying we could have a keeper of James' standard, but you expect a bit better from a keeper of your own. He also did not cover himself in glory on Tuesday either. Don't think Bart did a lot wrong when Kelvin was out, and I think it was a bit unfair directly replacing him.

 

Sorry but Davis kept us in the game with his superb one handed save in the first half

[CWD]

this thread is a joke. Davis is easily the best keeper in the league. West Ham clearly thought he was good enough. No disrespect to Bart - he will be our number one for years to come - but he isnt a patch on KD

[VectisSaint]

There isn't a better, or more loyal, keeper in League 1. His only real weakness is coming for corners but this isn't his fault, it's Pardews. Getting 11 men in the box, plus the opposition, gives him no real chance to come out and claim the ball with any real certainty. Keep 2 men up on the half way line (yesterday Papa and Antonio) and let your defenders defend, then KD can collect the ball more easily and get an attack going with 2 quick targets.

Not sure how KD's poor corner ability can be down to Pardew. Organisation of the defence and especially the goal area is the GK's responsibility.

 

One of the reasons we get a lot of people back for corners is because everyone is crapping themselves when KD is facing them. That said, as I noted above, yesterday he was actually very good on corners at least once, it was so unusual that I was quite shocked.

 

No-one doubts KD's loyalty. But loyalty doesn't make you the best, it just makes you loyal (some might say it means you have no ambition but thats an old argument of course).

[krissyboy31]

this thread is a joke. Davis is easily the best keeper in the league. West Ham clearly thought he was good enough. No disrespect to Bart - he will be our number one for years to come - but he isnt a patch on KD

 

Not on his current form, he's not!

[sadoldgit]

You didn't see him move away from his post to give Belhadj a nice little gap to slot the ball in then?

 

So he bought a dummy when he was one on one. His fault or a quality finish from a Prem player?

[John B]

this thread is a joke. Davis is easily the best keeper in the league. West Ham clearly thought he was good enough. No disrespect to Bart - he will be our number one for years to come - but he isnt a patch on KD

 

I dont think you realise that being a great shot stopper like Davis does not make you a great goalkeeper.

 

He worries me when I am sitting in the Stands when he stays on his line instead of being decisive god knows what it does to our defenders on the pitch.

[sadoldgit]

Including you my friend

 

I think you will find that the general consensus is that at least TWO of their goals yesterday SHOULD have been stopped

 

Davis HAS declined in ability this season. He cannot stop anything placed either side of him:cool:

 

James did..... many times:D

 

If you want to be picky every goal should be stopped at some point. Davis didn't have a chance with the first and was left badly exposed for the others. He has saved us on many occasions and is a decent keeper. Not his fault that he is not Peter Shilton.

 

James stopped those because they were near to him. Had the efforts been wider or lower, as was Lambert's header, he would have conceded too.

 

We lost yesterday because we lost our shape and disipline and were done on the counter. No doubt the legs went to after all that effort too. Very harsh to lay any blame at the keepers door IMHO.

[Torbay Saint]

What do people think about Barts positioning for the Leeds goal. I just saw it on sky and he looked to have drifted to the near post - not saying he could have saved it, but to me it looked like he made it easier.

[krissyboy31]

So he bought a dummy when he was one on one. His fault or a quality finish from a Prem player?

 

It wasn't a dummy, he was looking to square it but Davis' side step made his mind up for him. He should have done better with Dindane's and O'Hara's goals too. Didn't make himself big enough for the former and got a weak hand on the latter. Not blaming him totally for these goals because he should have got more protection from his defenders but still think he should have done better and IMO Bart would have (being a much bigger presence in the goal).

[Saint_clark]

Spot on IMHO

The reason of course is that Davis, having made the supreme sacrifice of declining to sit on the West Ham bench looking at Robert Green, had a "must play at all times if fit" clause put in his contract

 

Irrespective of whether his form merits it or not

 

Bart WAS playing well, and gaining confidence. He should NOT have been dropped.

 

BAD Manager's decision IMHO:cool:

 

If you look further up the thread you will see I think Bart should have been kept in the side as well, but your comment here is not true at all. Davis was on the bench for a game before he was brought back into the side.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

this thread is a joke. Davis is easily the best keeper in the league. West Ham clearly thought he was good enough. No disrespect to Bart - he will be our number one for years to come - but he isnt a patch on KD

 

Agree this thread is a joke. Davis is a top keeper and we wont get better in this league. Bart is a good back up keeper.

 

Maybe Davis hasn't saved enough penalties this season for some people to rate him?????:-(

[locks heath saint 2]

KD has been a sensation in a number of away games this season and we all would do well to remember that. NB he is not perfect but who is.

[OldNick]

I cant believe this thread!! James got lucky, he twice misread the corners , the first he missed and Jaidi should have scored the second he came out and flapped at the ball and was fortunate it hit him.Davis save was superb from Ohara and the ball was dipping in, add to his taking a couple of crosses.As for the goals, I was in liner for the first where their player curled the ball into the net, the 2nd Dindane? was 1 on 1 and KD went down and dindane cleverly chipped the ball and KD got a bit on it but not enough.The 3rd again Belhadj was through and looked to cross but dummied KD and slid the ball home, a superb bit of finishing the fourth again was a case of them outnumbering us and Ohara having a free shot. You should be pointing your fingers at Lallana and his powder puff attempts that should have bulged the net rather than bobbling into James hands

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Spot on IMHO

 

The reason of course is that Davis, having made the supreme sacrifice of declining to sit on the West Ham bench looking at Robert Green, had a "must play at all times if fit" clause put in his contract

 

Irrespective of whether his form merits it or not

 

Bart WAS playing well, and gaining confidence. He should NOT have been dropped.

 

BAD Manager's decision IMHO:cool:

 

Have you got any facts to back up your 'must play at all times if fit' claims?

[OldNick]

It wasn't a dummy, he was looking to square it but Davis' side step made his mind up for him. He should have done better with Dindane's and O'Hara's goals too. Didn't make himself big enough for the former and got a weak hand on the latter. Not blaming him totally for these goals because he should have got more protection from his defenders but still think he should have done better and IMO Bart would have (being a much bigger presence in the goal).

You are joking? Belhadj was about 8-10 yards out and did a clever dumy, KD like the rest thought he was about to slide the ball for a tap in and KD rightly made the judgement that most watching would have, Belhadj just showed real class in the way he decieved not only KD but the majority of fans in the ground, salute the quality finish

[ottery st mary]

Jaidi unluckily got under the ball for his header and Papa should have directed his header to the far corner......That is where us posters would have scored on both attempts....

[JustMike]

KD everytime for me.

[krissyboy31]

You are joking? Belhadj was about 8-10 yards out and did a clever dumy, KD like the rest thought he was about to slide the ball for a tap in and KD rightly made the judgement that most watching would have, Belhadj just showed real class in the way he decieved not only KD but the majority of fans in the ground, salute the quality finish

 

Nope. Terrible effort from Davis.

[OldNick]

Nope. Terrible effort from Davis.

we will have to disagree then, If KD had stayed where he was and Belhadj sliped the ball across for a 2 yard tap in you'd have picked up on that.He had a split second and the finish was superb.

[Window Cleaner]

we will have to disagree then, If KD had stayed where he was and Belhadj sliped the ball across for a 2 yard tap in you'd have picked up on that.He had a split second and the finish was superb.

 

I would say Belhadj never has any intention of crossing the ball, Kelvin buys the dummy that's all .For the second goal (Dindane's) kelvin is on the ground too early

a really brave keeper (not criticising Kelvin though) would have come out at his feet but Kelvin hasn't got the pace to do that any more, should have stood his ground though, he's diving even before Dindane has decided what to do, might have been effective at speed on a wet pitch but on a billiard table like St Mary's

he was never going to slide far enough to skittle Dindane.

Anyway it's not really his fault,Perry's error and the gung ho attacking left him in impossible situations.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Davis is very lacking in stopping low shots either side ( 3 yesterday ?? ) To me, he never seems to narrow the angle enough, giving the forward more of the goal to aim for

 

A few years ago, we brought Neimi back after injury, at the expense of Smith, who was playing well at the time. It took a long time before people accepted that Niemi was well past his sell by date, and was living on past glories ..... or what was written into his contract even .:cool:

 

Hmmmmmm, one keeper went on to play top flight football with Fulham for a number of years while the other went on to be dropped and replaced by Kevin Miller then play reserve team football for a league 1 club.