Carlisle's first goal

[spyinthesky]

Brilliant free kick from Harte but Seabourne fouled him (if his aerial challenge was indeed a foul) yards into the box.

 

Seems the Ref was not completely sure so gave the free kick outside the box, not that it mattered!!

 

Dan Seabourne continues to worry me. Not good enough in my opinion

 

On a different topic talking to a Carlisle fan who goes to a lot of their away games.

 

He considers us to be the strongest team in Div 1, and was v impressed by our support and friendliness at yesterdays game

[Nexstar]

I would like to see us buy another CB during the summer, as we can then have Jaidi (tiring) and Seaborne (lacks experience) as backups to Fonte.

 

Beauty of a free-kick btw.

[Whitey Grandad]

Serious backing-in by the Carlisle forward from where I'm sitting.

[S-Clarke]

I think people are being slightly harsh towards seaborne.

 

He may have been a bit sloppy at the end (but Davis was just as much at fault IMO) but he didn't put a foot wrong during the rest of the game, same can be said of the Oldham match too.

 

He's young and he will have lapses in his game, which can hopefully be coached out of him by Downes (there isn't a better coach around for him).

 

I don't think he'll be first choice week in - week out next year as i still think we'll sign another CB, but i do rate seaborne and at 21 he could become a good player for us.

Edited 25 April, 2010 by S-Clarke

[bowers-sfc]

brilliant free kick, cant blame davis one bit! my mate was saying, before he took the freekick, that hes pure class and better then lambert at free kicks? i told him it was bull****! then he put it away

 

few down by me even clapped

[S-Clarke]

brilliant free kick, cant blame davis one bit! my mate was saying, before he took the freekick, that hes pure class and better then lambert at free kicks? i told him it was bull****! then he put it away

 

few down by me even clapped

 

it was as good as giving away a penalty, i knew it was in as soon as the ref' blew up, he very rarely misses chances like that.

 

18 goals from CB this year!

[Dimond Geezer]

From where I was sat, (family centre, corner of Kingsland & Chapel). I didn't think it was a foul, if anything it appeard that Seaborne was the victim. Either way, it was defo a yard or so in the box. Nice shot though.

[benjii]

Seabourne had a better game than Fonte IMO. Fonte was class as well but made a big error with that back pass. I thought Seabourne was unlucky with the free-kick that lead to the goal.

[MorningtonCrescent]

Seabourne had an excellent game, as did Fonte. This is a fantastic partnership blossoming and one that will carry us well in the coming seasons. Fonte made as many errors as Seabourne yesterday (and in other recent games) and yet he is still idolised? Don't get me wrong, what Fonte gives us is something a class above the rest of the team, BUT he is still prone to conceding silly free-kicks around the penalty area.....

 

These two will be our first choice CBs for next season, I think. And I also believe they will keep many a strike force well and truly in their pockets for 90+ minutes too.

 

Good times!

 

:-)

[Stu Man Do]

Seabourne - poor mans Elliott Ward? ;-)

 

Had some good games and some dire ones that I've seen him in. Was terrible vs Oldham and only thanks to the gk that we didnt lose that game after he gifted two chances to Oldham that any half decent team would have taken easily. Needs time but reminds me somewhat of Oli "super good prospect" Lancashire.

[doddisalegend]

I have to agree I thought Seabourne looked good yesterday. Playing next to Fonte means he's probably always going to look a bit underpar next to such a classy player. He may not be as good as Fonte (but not many are at this level) but that doesn't mean he is not a good player at this level.

 

That freekick was never a free kick IMO they both challenged for the same ball. If that had been Lambert at the other end nothing would have been given. Defenders climb all over lambert every match and get away with it while our defenders seem to get penalised for doing the same thing at the other end of the pitch.

[brmbrm]

Brilliant free kick from Harte but Seabourne fouled him (if his aerial challenge was indeed a foul) yards into the box.

 

Seems the Ref was not completely sure so gave the free kick outside the box, not that it mattered!!

 

 

Evidence? You say, he say, who say. Whatever. Not sayign you are wrong, but most of the time a player chests the ball there are screams of "handball" and outraged swearing at the officials. Not to mention ball-not-100%-over-the-line etc.

 

From where I was it was as much backing in as fouling. But then I was in the Northam end, so not best suited to say.

 

In the event the penalty wasn't giben so bu deifintion it wasn't a penalty.

[benjii]

Been to the pub?

[The Godfather]

It was never a foul but once the ref has given the decision, it has to be a penalty.

 

Its just a shame that refs all season have contiuously let Rickie Lambert get mauled by every centre-half who's played against him whereas we get soft decisions like yesterday go against us.

[Stepgar]

Seabourne I don't get. I wentto the oldam game and he as total gash. I could nt believe how ****e he was . I genuinely lost count howmany times the easy lay off to Harding or fonte was on for him but he insisted on hooting forward to nobody more than a 50-50 ball quite often resulitng in us losing posession. AP should look for better options IMHO.

[Matthew Le God]

I'm in the "Seaborne is poor" camp.

 

Throughout the Carlisle game you could see that in particular Harding and Davis were getting very frustrated with Seaborne and there were a few "heated" discussions.

 

-His distribution is poor and like Jaidi he often resorts to a lot of aimless hoofs.

-His positioning is poor and other defenders are constantly covering for him or he has to recover his own mistakes not always successfully.

- He mistimes jumps for headers(often jumping too late) and loses a lot of them to the opponent.

- Headers he does win often are aimless and to the opponent.

 

He has a lot to do to convince me and to be honest I don't think he will as their is far too much missing from his game at the age of 23. He has some good attributes to work with but Wally Downes has an immense amount of work over the summer with him.

 

Another centre back is needed imo in the summer to partner Fonte.

[rooney]

We were screaming for somebody to get on the far post for this kick but as usual, nobody did and we gave away a goal.

[The9]

Serious backing-in by the Carlisle forward from where I'm sitting.

 

I was going to say, looked like the attacker "won" it, rather than Seaborne losing it.

 

Seaborne wasn't quite as composed on Sat as he was on Tuesday, but he's definitely benefitted from playing a few games regularly alongside Fonte and I'm no longer worried that he's a "bad signing", as I think he's looked comfortable and his decision making and positioning has tangibly improved, as you'd expect with an extended run-out alongside a consistent CB partner.

 

He's been upgraded from "dubious" to "promising".

[OldNick]

We were screaming for somebody to get on the far post for this kick but as usual, nobody did and we gave away a goal.

it still would have gone in

[The9]

I'm in the "Seaborne is poor" camp.

 

Throughout the Carlisle game you could see that in particular Harding and Davis were getting very frustrated with Seaborne and there were a few "heated" discussions.

 

-His distribution is poor and like Jaidi he often resorts to a lot of aimless hoofs.

-His positioning is poor and other defenders are constantly covering for him or he has to recover his own mistakes not always successfully.

- He mistimes jumps for headers(often jumping too late) and loses a lot of them to the opponent.

- Headers he does win often are aimless and to the opponent.

 

He has a lot to do to convince me and to be honest I don't think he will as their is far too much missing from his game at the age of 23. He has some good attributes to work with but Wally Downes has an immense amount of work over the summer with him.

 

Another centre back is needed imo in the summer to partner Fonte.

 

Disagree

 

- he very rarely hoofs it (a lot less than Fonte especially), and when he does go long he almost always plays a judged long pass towards Lambert, and only then when other options aren't on.

- his positioning was poor until he got a regular run, and has now improved. He used to drift too far from his CB partner, leaving a gaping hole down the middle, this no longer happens.

- he wins a lot of headers, if not as many as Fonte, and I don't think directionally he's any worse than Jaidi, who's known for his heading ability.

 

I don't disagree that we might want to sign another CB though, as Jaidi and Perry are both getting on, and we can afford a ready-made Championship-level player already.

[The9]

Seabourne I don't get. I wentto the oldam game and he as total gash. I could nt believe how ****e he was . I genuinely lost count howmany times the easy lay off to Harding or fonte was on for him but he insisted on hooting forward to nobody more than a 50-50 ball quite often resulitng in us losing posession. AP should look for better options IMHO.

 

Funny that, I watched the same game and saw a vastly improved performance from an increasingly competent looking player.

 

And has it occurred to you that he might have been told to aim for Rickie at the first opportunity ?

 

Some people on here need to learn the difference between a random hoof and a planned and directed long pass.

[saint_stevo]

Funny that, I watched the same game and saw a vastly improved performance from an increasingly competent looking player.

 

And has it occurred to you that he might have been told to aim for Rickie at the first opportunity ?

 

Some people on here need to learn the difference between a random hoof and a planned and directed long pass.

 

It is when that planned and directed long pass ends up with the keeper, or out of play that irks a few, and makes it look like a random hoof. They can't all share our vision and on-a-six-pence passing 9 ol chap

[rooney]

it still would have gone in

 

Maybe not if we had one of our giant defenders on the goal line, but how many times has this happened this season? A lesson to be learned here I guess.

[The9]

It is when that planned and directed long pass ends up with the keeper, or out of play that irks a few, and makes it look like a random hoof. They can't all share our vision and on-a-six-pence passing 9 ol chap

 

The nature of a "hoof" is an undirected pass, usually of a bouncing ball. If the thing is sitting on the ground, there's no-one around and the bloke has the time to look up and pick a target, then cuts through the ball in an effort to control its eventual location, it's a pass not a hoof, irrespective of whether it actually ends up in the Itchen or on Lambert's head.

 

Fonte's habit of leaping in front of people and heftily sidefooting the ball back up the park is a LOT more destructive, but people just buy into this cultured footballer stereotype and don't actually watch what's going on. On the bright side, Fonte's been doing it a lot less in the last month or two, as he's probably realised he's got a bit more time now and can get away with bringing it down.

 

In short, Seaborne might not be able to pass long all that accurately, but he doesn't often hoof it.

[OldNick]

Maybe not if we had one of our giant defenders on the goal line, but how many times has this happened this season? A lesson to be learned here I guess.

 

But you can't sacrifice your taller defenders to a post. Frankly sometimes you just have to say @superb effort' and move on. I dont know how many free kicks have been scored against us this season, but i dont see it as a big problem

[The9]

But you can't sacrifice your taller defenders to a post. Frankly sometimes you just have to say @superb effort' and move on. I dont know how many free kicks have been scored against us this season, but i dont see it as a big problem

 

You stick a defender on the goal line from a free-kick and they stick 3 of their players in front of your keeper so he can't see and has no chance of reacting to a deflection inside the 6 yard box.

 

It was a great free kick and well worth the applause it got from some Saints fans. The b'stard.

[OldNick]

You stick a defender on the goal line from a free-kick and they stick 3 of their players in front of your keeper so he can't see and has no chance of reacting to a deflection inside the 6 yard box.

 

It was a great free kick and well worth the applause it got from some Saints fans. The b'stard.

I think that is what happened initially as we put someone on the post and so we gave that idea up.

[SoccerMom]

Seabourne I don't get. I wentto the oldam game and he as total gash. I could nt believe how ****e he was . I genuinely lost count howmany times the easy lay off to Harding or fonte was on for him but he insisted on hooting forward to nobody more than a 50-50 ball quite often resulitng in us losing posession. AP should look for better options IMHO.

 

Ian Harte perhaps.

[Window Cleaner]

Fonte's habit of leaping in front of people and heftily sidefooting the ball back up the park is a LOT more destructive, but people just buy into this cultured footballer stereotype and don't actually watch what's going on. On the bright side, Fonte's been doing it a lot less in the last month or two, as he's probably realised he's got a bit more time now and can get away with bringing it down.

 

In short, Seaborne might not be able to pass long all that accurately, but he doesn't often hoof it.

 

 

I would agree with this, I just can't see why everybody raves about Fonté as being "cultured".

He's more than adequate in defence but his elbowing and shirt pulling will eventually cost us a few badly placed free kicks and penalties. His "distribution" is zero, especially most of his headwork, he will just loop it up into the air instead of trying to nod it down to feet. Watch any Full 90 on the old Saintsplayer, you get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

[John B]

The last game I saw was against Hartlepool and I was sitting to the left of the goal at the Chapel End with Seabourne defending in front of me .

 

I thought he played reasonably well and his ditrbution was OK but both of the Hartlepool goals did come from down the right.

 

I shall be at the Southend game and now will look out to see how both Seabourne and Fonte perform now there is a discussion about both defenders

[fareham saint phil]

Thought it was a foul so should have been a penalty, but as this thread was about Hartes freekick have to say it was a beauty and both me and my son applauded, something i very very rarely do to an "away" goal. But sometimes you just got to appreciate class!!

[The9]

I would agree with this, I just can't see why everybody raves about Fonté as being "cultured".

He's more than adequate in defence but his elbowing and shirt pulling will eventually cost us a few badly placed free kicks and penalties. His "distribution" is zero, especially most of his headwork, he will just loop it up into the air instead of trying to nod it down to feet. Watch any Full 90 on the old Saintsplayer, you get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

 

I think he's a skilful footballer who can play a decent pass, always looks like he has time and can do more with the ball than the majority of his League 1 peers, but who also has a tendency to just leap up in the air and whack the shiiiiiiiiit out of the ball on occasions.

['00']

Saints should sign Ian Harte,his dad is a long time Saints supporter.

[Professor]

Too many people pre-judged Dan Seaborne, even before he played a game and now try to justify their prejudice by picking on any occasion when he doesn't win the ball. How about Fonte's back pass against Carlisle that was nearly an own goal and led to a free kick on our 6-yard line. Did that make Fonte a poor signing? Or maybe it was Seaborne's fault all along.

[Bourno]

Thought it was a foul so should have been a penalty, but as this thread was about Hartes freekick have to say it was a beauty and both me and my son applauded, something i very very rarely do to an "away" goal. But sometimes you just got to appreciate class!!

 

+ 1

[Alain Perrin]

+ 1

 

The replay shows the offence starting outside of the box (just) so it rightly wasn't a penalty. Close call though.

 

Regardless, it was a great free kick.

[The9]

The replay shows the offence starting outside of the box (just) so it rightly wasn't a penalty. Close call though.

 

Regardless, it was a great free kick.

 

"Starting" outside doesn't mean anything, if the foul is still being perpetrated inside the box it's a penalty - like the Kalou incident on the weekend, he was fouled twice outside the box, the ref played advantage, then he fell over whilst still being fouled in the box, where the penalty is clearly better than any advantage from the position he was in.

[mikey_boosh]

I actually thought Seabourne had a very good game. Won pretty much everything in the air. Also, I've noticed the more he plays alongside Fonte, the more composed he gets. I remmeber him playing his first few games for us and he just used to hoof it clear. Now he seems to keep it down and to play it out of danger.

 

I don't know how he would cope in the Championship, but I would say he's a good League 1 defender.

[Whitey Grandad]

"Starting" outside doesn't mean anything, if the foul is still being perpetrated inside the box it's a penalty - like the Kalou incident on the weekend, he was fouled twice outside the box, the ref played advantage, then he fell over whilst still being fouled in the box, where the penalty is clearly better than any advantage from the position he was in.

Quite correct. But if it started outside and continued inside for a couple of yards then Seabourne was going being pushed backwards and was being fouled in the process.

[The9]

Quite correct. But if it started outside and continued inside for a couple of yards then Seabourne was going being pushed backwards and was being fouled in the process.

 

This is true, and at that point the ref would have had to have given the initial foul becuase he can't offer an advantage to Carlisle any more (as their "advantage" would be conceding a free-kick). So he got it spot on.

[The9]

I actually thought Seabourne had a very good game.

 

Until the last 10 seconds anyway...