Great research by the Echo!!

[equalizer]

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere but can someone tell me who does the research on Saints for the Daily Echo. Because apparently since relegation we've only won once in the league when live on Sky. Last season at home to Cardiff. Funny that because I thought we beat Luton at home and Burnley away live on Sky. Whatever the Echo pay their staff, its too much!!

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3724489.Lallana__We_re_not_just_a_bunch_of_kids/

[paulwantsapint]

What can we expect from echo never really been as good as OS & thats not good is it?

[Toomer]

Dandy, Beno, Wizzer & Chips, Echo all comics.

[wightman35]

Dandy, Beno, Wizzer & Chips, Echo all comics.

 

I always enjoyed reading the Dandy, Beano, Wizzer and Chips.........

.........but the Echo?

[FloridaMarlin]

It's the tit of a sports editor, Simon Carter.

 

Been at the paper six years, and still not been to a Saints match!! (He has been pictured making presentations at St Mary's on matchdays but always makes an excuse that he has to be back at the office and leaves).

 

Exeter City fan, loves to write what he considers to be insightful, hard-hitting columns, but turn out to be turgid, poorly-researched and ill-thought out nonsense.

[whizzpop]

The whole of the Echo is a shambles, always based on assumptions, no real investigations, it is third rate news.

 

Just this week the echo assumed hundreds of jobs were to go for the company I work for (Fortis in Eastleigh) when we aren't even effected by what has gone on in the Benelux countries. Shoddy is not the word.

[Long Shot]

It's the tit of a sports editor, Simon Carter.

 

Been at the paper six years, and still not been to a Saints match!! (He has been pictured making presentations at St Mary's on matchdays but always makes an excuse that he has to be back at the office and leaves).

 

Exeter City fan, loves to write what he considers to be insightful, hard-hitting columns, but turn out to be turgid, poorly-researched and ill-thought out nonsense.

 

 

I can't believe the Sports Editor of the Southampton Evening Echo has never been to a Saints match. That is an effin outrage - no wonder the paper is a shadow of its former self and don't get me started on Editor Ian Murray who is a numpty of the highest order (his column on a Saturday is cringeworthy). When I think of how football reporting was carried out in the old days, Brian Haywood, John May and Graham Hiley, even the slightly idle Bob Brunskell could pen a few words that actually came from the heart. Grrrr!

Edited 4 October, 2008 by Long Shot

[lordswoodsaints]

i have no time for the echo since a well written argument by myself was heavily edited to fit in with their agenda.

i did complain about it but i never recieved a reply.

[RobM]

Things like this annoy me more than anything else in the press.

 

I can deal with the press putting their own slant on things, I can even deal with twisting peoples words, but at least try and get your facts correct. If you can't be bothered to do that, it makes any other words you write lack any form of credibility and simply cannot be taken seriously.

[Pip]

Although it didn't seem like it we also won the play off game at Derby as well, didn't we?

[Saint Charlie]

In the days of official sites the Echo needs to write more thoughtful, creative or informative articles rather than just paraphrasing OS stories.

[stevegrant]

At least you can rely on one site to get its facts right...

[Deppo]

It's Dandy,Beano,Whizzer And Chips.

[Totton Red]

It's Dandy,Beano,Whizzer And Chips.

 

Lay off those at the Echo. A deal was done when RL returned and their hands are tied

[FloridaMarlin]

I can't believe the Sports Editor of the Southampton Evening Echo has never been to a Saints match. That is an effin outrage - no wonder the paper is a shadow of its former self and don't get me started on Editor Ian Murray who is a numpty of the highest order (his column on a Saturday is cringeworthy). When I think of how football reporting was carried out in the old days, Brian Haywood, John May and Graham Hiley, even the slightly idle Bob Brunskell could pen a few words that actually came from the heart. Grrrr!

 

Whatever happened to those fellows, eh?

 

Brian died, must be 10-12 years ago. A Sports Editor of the old school, who ran his desk like a benevolent tyrant, had brilliant contacts, and knew Ted and the players intimately, even travelling on the same trains and team bus, in the days when clubs and their local paper had that sort of relationship.

 

Bob Brunskell retired, but still does pieces for the programme (well, did until Graham left the club). You say he was idle, but a highly respected journalist among his peers and the public.

 

John May, went to work for BBC Sport in London, but now back on the south coast and teaching the next generation of sports hacks, running a sports journalism degree at Solent uni.

 

Graham Hiley, after editing the OS, now doing something similar at the Premier League's website. The club's loss is the PL's gain there. Started looking for the exit door as soon as Rupert returned. Knew his card was marked after the parting shot he fired at Rupert on the OS when Rupert left the first time.

[FloridaMarlin]

Lay off those at the Echo. A deal was done when RL returned and their hands are tied

 

Care to enlarge?

 

That would be a hugely retrograde and dangerous step for any media outlet to take as it would compromise their integrity, objectivity and independent ability to inform the public of issues they need to know.

 

That would lead to accusations of the Echo being in the club's pocket, and that's something no self-respecting journal would ever want.

 

When The News were banned by p****y a few years back they had the cojones to take them on. They told their readers that they were banned, and the issue over which the club had banned them. This was in the days before the CJD stand was built, and The News used to hire a cherry-picker, park it on the waste ground behind the goal raise it up just before kick-off so their reporter and photographer could watch the game.

 

The News were banned last season for something they had written, so they bought a couple of season tickets and watched the game from the stands. On any occasion when The News have been banned by the club, fans have taken the paper's side and let the club know of their feelings.

 

If any paper did 'do a deal' with their club, it would be The Echo. They are owned by Gannett (one of the US's biggest media companies) and their owners expect them to make money first and foremost, even at the risk of compromising their editorial values and standards.

 

If there was any threat to advertising revenues, the Echo would examine its relationship with the club as a matter of course, but I am intrigued as to what sort of deal they have done with Rupert.

 

If you are accusing the Echo of doing a deal, you need to explain how, what and why. You can't just make a throwaway statement like that.

[stanthemanfairoak]

oh dear!sorry mr murruy.

[Long Shot]

Whatever happened to those fellows, eh?

 

Brian died, must be 10-12 years ago. A Sports Editor of the old school, who ran his desk like a benevolent tyrant, had brilliant contacts, and knew Ted and the players intimately, even travelling on the same trains and team bus, in the days when clubs and their local paper had that sort of relationship.

 

Bob Brunskell retired, but still does pieces for the programme (well, did until Graham left the club). You say he was idle, but a highly respected journalist among his peers and the public.

 

John May, went to work for BBC Sport in London, but now back on the south coast and teaching the next generation of sports hacks, running a sports journalism degree at Solent uni.

 

Graham Hiley, after editing the OS, now doing something similar at the Premier League's website. The club's loss is the PL's gain there. Started looking for the exit door as soon as Rupert returned. Knew his card was marked after the parting shot he fired at Rupert on the OS when Rupert left the first time.

 

 

Slightly tongue in cheek regarding Bob - a nice bloke indeed, just felt in his later years he coasted a bit.

As for the others - met them all and wish they were still at the Echo but my guess is they were glad to have left for no way is it the paper it was. Can't remember when they last broke a good story or even did any research.

[Long Shot]

Care to enlarge?

 

That would be a hugely retrograde and dangerous step for any media outlet to take as it would compromise their integrity, objectivity and independent ability to inform the public of issues they need to know.

 

That would lead to accusations of the Echo being in the club's pocket, and that's something no self-respecting journal would ever want.

 

When The News were banned by p****y a few years back they had the cojones to take them on. They told their readers that they were banned, and the issue over which the club had banned them. This was in the days before the CJD stand was built, and The News used to hire a cherry-picker, park it on the waste ground behind the goal raise it up just before kick-off so their reporter and photographer could watch the game.

 

The News were banned last season for something they had written, so they bought a couple of season tickets and watched the game from the stands. On any occasion when The News have been banned by the club, fans have taken the paper's side and let the club know of their feelings.

 

If any paper did 'do a deal' with their club, it would be The Echo. They are owned by Gannett (one of the US's biggest media companies) and their owners expect them to make money first and foremost, even at the risk of compromising their editorial values and standards.

 

If there was any threat to advertising revenues, the Echo would examine its relationship with the club as a matter of course, but I am intrigued as to what sort of deal they have done with Rupert.

 

If you are accusing the Echo of doing a deal, you need to explain how, what and why. You can't just make a throwaway statement like that.

 

 

You make an excellent point and Totton Red should substantiate further because it would be very unhealthy if indeed a deal had been done. I am suspicious however because things do seem a lot cosier than they were when Rupert last ruled the roost.

[Wade Garrett]

Lay off those at the Echo. A deal was done when RL returned and their hands are tied

 

If that's true I have even less respect for them.

[Totton Red]

You make an excellent point and Totton Red should substantiate further because it would be very unhealthy if indeed a deal had been done. I am suspicious however because things do seem a lot cosier than they were when Rupert last ruled the roost.

 

You read the paper and see the change from those days of abusing RL. Both are struggling and thought that a pact would benefit both parties. Have you noticed the announcements from SFC that are timed with the Echo? Unfortunately the success of the deal was dependent on positive inside news - whether Svensson is fit or not is not selling papers!!

[The Watcher]

It's the tit of a sports editor, Simon Carter.

 

Been at the paper six years, and still not been to a Saints match!! (He has been pictured making presentations at St Mary's on matchdays but always makes an excuse that he has to be back at the office and leaves).

 

Exeter City fan, loves to write what he considers to be insightful, hard-hitting columns, but turn out to be turgid, poorly-researched and ill-thought out nonsense.

 

Get your facts right mate if you are going to have a pop at people. It is ridiculous to suggest that Simon Carter has never been to St Mary's. I've been in his company there on many occasions. Judging by several of your - normally sound - posts, you obviously have or like to think you've an inside line with the local media. Therefore, I am quite surprised you have made such a blunder on this one.

[positivepete]

The Echo reflect that truism of journalists, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.........

[RobM]

You read the paper and see the change from those days of abusing RL. Both are struggling and thought that a pact would benefit both parties. Have you noticed the announcements from SFC that are timed with the Echo? Unfortunately the success of the deal was dependent on positive inside news - whether Svensson is fit or not is not selling papers!!

 

Translated, means you have made the whole 'deal' between the Echo and RL up based purely upon.... nothing? The Echo stop giving RL so much abuse and you jump to that conclusion? Have you considered it was because he left the club and since coming back, hasn't actually done too much wrong?

 

Usual for this forum though, desperate attempt to sound like your 'ITK'

[Block 18]

The whole of the Echo is a shambles, always based on assumptions, no real investigations, it is third rate news.

 

Just this week the echo assumed hundreds of jobs were to go for the company I work for (Fortis in Eastleigh) when we aren't even effected by what has gone on in the Benelux countries. Shoddy is not the word.

 

 

Were you at the Fortis do at SMS Saturday night? I was as a quest of the other half.

[AlfredKo]

How about our away win against Burnley last season?

[Saint Martini]

How about our away win against Burnley last season?

 

Did you read the opening post?

[FloridaMarlin]

Get your facts right mate if you are going to have a pop at people. It is ridiculous to suggest that Simon Carter has never been to St Mary's. I've been in his company there on many occasions. Judging by several of your - normally sound - posts, you obviously have or like to think you've an inside line with the local media. Therefore, I am quite surprised you have made such a blunder on this one.

 

Sorry for the tardy reply. I can only relate what his own staff tell me. The fact that you say he has been in other people's company hints to me he has been a guest of hospitality boxes, but I'm not sure he has ever been in the press box, which is the normal working environment of a journalist.

[benjii]

- Is that the Echo?

 

- Yes.

 

- It's Saints here.

 

- Hi.

 

- Can we do a deal where you understate the number of games we've won on Sky since relegation?

 

- ok.

[Totton Red]

Translated, means you have made the whole 'deal' between the Echo and RL up based purely upon.... nothing? The Echo stop giving RL so much abuse and you jump to that conclusion? Have you considered it was because he left the club and since coming back, hasn't actually done too much wrong?

Usual for this forum though, desperate attempt to sound like your 'ITK'

 

Don't consider anything - Don't really care if ITK. Just conveying some information to enlighten a few. Not exactly an exciting revelation and makes pretty good business sense!

[Son of Bob]

I can't believe the Sports Editor of the Southampton Evening Echo has never been to a Saints match. That is an effin outrage - no wonder the paper is a shadow of its former self and don't get me started on Editor Ian Murray who is a numpty of the highest order (his column on a Saturday is cringeworthy). When I think of how football reporting was carried out in the old days, Brian Haywood, John May and Graham Hiley, even the slightly idle Bob Brunskell could pen a few words that actually came from the heart. Grrrr!

 

I have just come back from my parents house and I have to say my Dad is very upset with your comments. I'm sure I may appear biased but as far as I know my Dad worked his arse off every day during his tenure at the Echo.

 

He is considered one of the most respected and professional sports journalists to have ever graced it's corridors both by his peers and readers alike. I'd like to know just exactly what you base your accusations of coasting and idleness? He is really quite gutted by what you have written and I suspect he will be contacting you himself.

 

He has always considered himself a consumate professional and is very proud of his achievements over his 40 odd years at the Echo. He feels your comments are bordering on slander and I suspect he would like an explaination.

 

Everybody is of course entitled to their own opinion but when the basis of that opinion appears to have no real substance it has to be questioned.

[Long Shot]

I have just come back from my parents house and I have to say my Dad is very upset with your comments. I'm sure I may appear biased but as far as I know my Dad worked his arse off every day during his tenure at the Echo.

 

He is considered one of the most respected and professional sports journalists to have ever graced it's corridors both by his peers and readers alike. I'd like to know just exactly what you base your accusations of coasting and idleness? He is really quite gutted by what you have written and I suspect he will be contacting you himself.

 

He has always considered himself a consumate professional and is very proud of his achievements over his 40 odd years at the Echo. He feels your comments are bordering on slander and I suspect he would like an explaination.

 

 

Everybody is of course entitled to their own opinion but when the basis of that opinion appears to have no real substance it has to be questioned.

 

 

Calm down. If you read what i said it was actually complementary about his writing skills. However imo "research" was and is an area when all Echo journalists at some stage have been found to be coasting. I stand by my remarks.

[Son of Bob]

Calm down. If you read what i said it was actually complementary about his writing skills. However imo "research" was and is an area when all Echo journalists at some stage have been found to be coasting. I stand by my remarks.

 

Then I suggest you look hard at your wording. It would definitely imply to me that you feel that Bob, and Bob alone is 'idle' and 'coasting' in comparison to the likes of Graham and David.

 

Harsh words I think and no, I won't calm down. I consider your post insulting and to see my Dad as angry as he was this morning I think he does as well.

 

He considers it a scathing comment that undermines his professionalism and I have to say I agree.

[Window Cleaner]

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere but can someone tell me who does the research on Saints for the Daily Echo. Because apparently since relegation we've only won once in the league when live on Sky. Last season at home to Cardiff. Funny that because I thought we beat Luton at home and Burnley away live on Sky. Whatever the Echo pay their staff, its too much!!

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3724489.Lallana__We_re_not_just_a_bunch_of_kids/

 

It is a well known fact that Saints are crap on Sky.

Some Norwegian songsters even wrote a ditty about it.

 

F*ck me, how can it be

Saints never shine on TV

 

Aha, was that the name of the troup of Nordic Minstrels?

[NickG]

insults like this should not appear on this site. Son of - I do not know your father nor his work effort but for anyone to be slagged off like that on this forum is totally inappropriate -even if it was true.

 

Long shot -you owe the "bob" family a clear withdrawal and apologies -without conditions.

[VectisSaint]

He has always considered himself a consumate professional and is very proud of his achievements over his 40 odd years at the Echo. He feels your comments are bordering on slander and I suspect he would like an explaination.

Just to be pedantic, this would be libellous, not slanderous. Libel is usually considered much more serious than slander, as it applies to the written/published word.

[Son of Bob]

Just to be pedantic, this would be libellous, not slanderous. Libel is usually considered much more serious than slander, as it applies to the written/published word.

 

Slander, libellous, whatever! My Dad used both words this morning after he'd read Long Shots comments. It's very easy to casually pass comment like this without thinking of the consequences.

 

And yes, you are a pedant!

[Long Shot]

insults like this should not appear on this site. Son of - I do not know your father nor his work effort but for anyone to be slagged off like that on this forum is totally inappropriate -even if it was true.

 

Long shot -you owe the "bob" family a clear withdrawal and apologies -without conditions.

 

 

Nick I would keep out of this if I were you - no offence.

 

I was involved once in a "project" with BB. He is a very nice man, however I found him slightly idle within the work we were scheduled to do together. Therefore I cannot withdraw my remark nor will I apologise for it. I will contact son of Bob by private message.

[Son of Bob]

Nick I would keep out of this if I were you - no offence.

 

I was involved once in a "project" with BB. He is a very nice man, however I found him slightly idle within the work we were scheduled to do together. Therefore I cannot withdraw my remark nor will I apologise for it. I will contact son of Bob by private message.

 

I wouldn't bother to be fair as I'll probably just lose my temper with you. You are entitled to your own thoughts, right or wrong, so lets just leave it at that.

[ladysaint]

Anyone remember Peter East who used to do all the reports on the Saints matches or am I going back too far.

[sperm_john]

they did a peice on a friends business thats was based on nothing... just rubbish paper really

[NickG]

Nick I would keep out of this if I were you - no offence.

 

I was involved once in a "project" with BB. He is a very nice man, however I found him slightly idle within the work we were scheduled to do together. Therefore I cannot withdraw my remark nor will I apologise for it. I will contact son of Bob by private message.

 

as said even if that is your opinion/experience totally inappropriate to slag him off on here. You decided you wanted us to see it so can't now decide its a private matter

[Long Shot]

as said even if that is your opinion/experience totally inappropriate to slag him off on here. You decided you wanted us to see it so can't now decide its a private matter

 

Nick, maybe in hindsight, it should have been done privately in the first place but my initial rebuke on the thread was comparatively mild and relatively innoffensive. (Slightly idle and coasting). Son of Bob's reply upped the anti and so I have sent him a pm explaining my reasons. I have to say however if you were party to the pm or actually knew the whole story you might have felt less inclined to cast so quick a judgement.

 

Son of Bob has said he wishes to leave it there and I am (now) happy to let it go, if that is what he wishes.

[FloridaMarlin]

This is where I leap in to defend Bob.

 

The likes of him and all the afforementioned (Graham Hiley, John May, Peter East, etc) will never be seen on local provincial papers again.

 

We're talking of a time when the local paper had a special, almost symbiotic relationship with its football club. They both needed each other to sell their respective product.

 

Bob's generation included the likes of John Vinncombe at the Brighton Argus, David Meek at the Manchester Evening News, Peter White who covered Blackburn for the Lancashire Evening Post, Alan Oliver at the Newcastle Chronicle (the only one still working for a paper) and the indomitable Mike Neasom at The News (and before you kiss him off as working for a Skate paper, he covered Saints for years, including when we won the FA Cup).

 

All were guys who earned enormous respect from their readers and the club they covered for being proper journalists of the old school.

 

Because the club had a relationship with its local media and access to players was much more relaxed (most players were hapy to give out their home number, and then mobiles when they came along) reporters like Bob had good contacts, and consequently got all the important stories first.

 

Back then, people bought their local paper because they knew that's where they would get their news first. But when it came to criticising, reporters of that generation wrote unfettered and fearlessly, while providing support for the club (the local paper's relationship with the club was seen as that of a critical friend). The club might not like it, but they respected the paper's right to be an independent voice in their relationshp.

 

Alas and alack, all that has gone. Now, clubs do not need their local paper so much as they have their own media outlet in the form of their website. Because they can sell lucrative advertising on their website based on the hit count, it makes sense fo them to make sure they control the output and news agenda.

 

Papers and the media are only given access to players on a strictly limited basis and reporters are now longer able to build up the sort of rapport with players and personnel in the club they had in days gone by (a stark contrast to the States where sports still consider their relationship with the media as vital, and in most sports doors of the locker rooms are opened to the media 15 minutes after the end of the game).

 

Because clubs control access and agenda, news emanating from football clubs these days is generally peurile and homogenized. By controlling access and keeping news on a drip-feed, clubs ensure that everyone has the same story.

 

The result of this is 'lazy' journalism. That's not to say that individual journalists do not work hard, but is a reflection that because clubs have control and can easily withdraw access papers are not minded to upset them and risk losing that access.

 

Provincial papers used to be vibrant, due in no small part to reporters like Bob, but are now bland and anodyne (notwithstanding the claims that the Echo and Saints have 'done a deal').

 

Bob is too nice a bloke to sue, but he would have every reason to resort to law for what is a libellous remark.

 

I seem to recall a previous Brighton chairman (possibly **** Knight in his previous incarnation, but I could be wrong) got a fan's website closed down as a result of comments made on it.

[Son of Bob]

Amen to that Marlin and I'm putting an end to this one. Too much dirty washing being aired and not the place to be doing it.

 

Subject closed.