Holding a knife and fork properly

[dune]

It's amazing how many people have never been taught table manners by their parents. My mum and my nan were sticklers for table manners as if you can hold a knife and fork properly you can dine with anyone and not show yourself up. It's amazing if you look around restaurants at people who act like they're upper class with a put on voice, but who aren't holding their knife and fork properly. It's very revealing.

[Johnny Bognor]

It's amazing how many people have never been taught table manners by their parents. My mum and my nan were sticklers for table manners as if you can hold a knife and fork properly you can dine with anyone and not show yourself up. It's amazing if you look around restaurants at people who act like they're upper class with a put on voice, but who aren't holding their knife and fork properly. It's very revealing.

 

You can't buy class, it's in the breeding.

[dune]

You can't buy class, it's in the breeding.

 

Given my family tree, i'm happy to go along with this.

[Sheaf Saint]

But who is to say what's 'proper'? Why is it important?

 

I was taught how to hold a knife and fork properly by my mum, but I choose not to because it doesn't even register on my scale of importance what other people think of me when I'm eating. I consider it to be a load of old elitist nonsense that doesn't make a shred of difference to the world we live in.

[dune]

But who is to say what's 'proper'? Why is it important?

 

I was taught how to hold a knife and fork properly by my mum, but I choose not to because it doesn't even register on my scale of importance what other people think of me when I'm eating. I consider it to be a load of old elitist nonsense that doesn't make a shred of difference to the world we live in.

 

I bet you also say haitch.

[scotty]

there was a letter in Viz from somebody who had observed some contestant from big brother eating an airline meal while wielding his knife and fork chimp-style. The contestant's mother wrote in to the next issue to moan about her son being stared at hahahaaa, oh the delicious irony

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

It's amazing how many people have never been taught table manners by their parents. My mum and my nan were sticklers for table manners as if you can hold a knife and fork properly you can dine with anyone and not show yourself up. It's amazing if you look around restaurants at people who act like they're upper class with a put on voice, but who aren't holding their knife and fork properly. It's very revealing.

 

You ever been to America?

[Sheaf Saint]

I bet you also say haitch.

 

No, I don't.

 

Seriously dune, why is it important how people hold a knife and fork? To me it just displays a propensity to project an image of oneself other than one's real personality. It is conformity; a desire to fit in and be considered 'normal'.

 

In my opinion, it is folk like you who pass judgement on others because of irrelevancies like this that have more to be ashamed of.

[saintscottofthenortham]

When it came to the cheese board last Christmas evening, when I was surrounded by my missus' very snobby and wannabe upper class aunties and uncles, listening to a discussion about Port, I took the cheese knife and cut a wedge of Extra Mature Golden Chedder, picked it up and proceeded to bite chunks of it. I was asked the question "were you not taught table manners?" to which I replied "Yes, Thankyou. But I prefer to eat how I'm comfortable." Surprisingly, they don't think much of little working class me with my common southern accent. The good news is I don't think much of pretenders.

[RedAndWhite91]

I live in quite a posh town where a lot of very posh people live. However, you also get a lot of people putting on the whole posh thing, and I think dune comes across as one of these people. Snobbery at it's worst.

[skintsaint]

I eat with my fingers so not sure where I stand

[thesaint sfc]

I quite often use my fork to scoop things up as its easier and I can shovel more into my mouth then.

[dune]

I live in quite a posh town where a lot of very posh people live. However, you also get a lot of people putting on the whole posh thing, and I think dune comes across as one of these people. Snobbery at it's worst.

 

It's nothing of the sort. Holding your knife and fork correctly is good manners.

[thesaint sfc]

No, I don't.

 

Seriously dune, why is it important how people hold a knife and fork? To me it just displays a propensity to project an image of oneself other than one's real personality. It is conformity; a desire to fit in and be considered 'normal'.

 

In my opinion, it is folk like you who pass judgement on others because of irrelevancies like this that have more to be ashamed of.

 

Agreed. Life is too short to monitor ones ability in knife and fork holding.

 

Having said that, we are talking about dune here....

[Colinjb]

As someone who says Haitch I can confirm that I prefer eating from a trough.

 

I prefer my apple cores slightly fermented... adds a little zing.

[fish fingers]

It's nothing of the sort. Holding your knife and fork correctly is good manners.

 

Rubbish. Surely the correct way to hold a knife and fork is the most comfortable way for the individual. Please and Thank-you are good manners, holding cutlery is just all about personal preference.

[dune]

Rubbish. Surely the correct way to hold a knife and fork is the most comfortable way for the individual. Please and Thank-you are good manners, holding cutlery is just all about personal preference.

 

No. There is a right way to hold a knife and fork, and there is an uneducated way to hold a knife and fork. Little things like holding a knife and fork properly and saying "H" correctly is the making of a civilised man.

[moonraker]

It's nothing of the sort. Holding your knife and fork correctly is good manners.

 

The question of good manners is a difficult one, who decides what they are, convention constantly changes. In the main it seems to be the privileged classes who decide how the rest of us should behave, this tends to lead to one of 2 outcomes, snobbery or indifference. In the former those who want to better themselves try to replicate the behaviour of the privileged classes, and as you have observed most are easily spotted as the devil is in the detail, the latter just get on with their lives and attain whatever success comes their way by talent not mimickery.

[Colinjb]

No. There is a right way to hold a knife and fork, and there is an uneducated way to hold a knife and fork. Little things like holding a knife and fork properly and saying "H" correctly is the making of a civilised man.

 

 

And if you can do both such things in your eyes yet enjoy a spot of murder on the weekends? Is that still a civilised man?

 

This over-reliance on minutae is rediculous to me. But hey, whatever you get your kicks from. No wonder Tories like me get tarred by the name when there is this attitude from extremists.

[dune]

In the former those who want to better themselves try to replicate the behaviour of the privileged classes, and as you have observed most are easily spotted as the devil is in the detail.

 

Correct. Go in any restaurant and you'll see people with put on posh accents holding their knife and fork wrong. These people are the snobs, those who hold their knives and forks properly have the real class.

[RonManager]

I'm not allowed anything sharp.

[Colinjb]

Correct. Go in any restaurant and you'll see people with put on posh accents holding their knife and fork wrong. These people are the snobs, those who hold their knives and forks properly have the real class.

 

 

Am I alone in seeing the irony here?

[moonraker]

Am I alone in seeing the irony here?

 

Colin you are not alone!

[dune]

Colin you are not alone!

 

Image is everything. Holding your knife and fork properly is an integral part of suceeding in life because if you can hold your knife and fork properly you can mix in any circle and thus open doors to opportunities.

[angelman]

I bet you also say haitch.

 

Haitch is the Welsh way of saying aitch which seems to have taken over for some reason.

[Colinjb]

Haitch is the Welsh way of saying aitch which seems to have taken over for some reason.

 

The education system trying to overcompensate for the effect of silent haitches apparently.

 

Hang on.... wrong thread surely, or are they merging?

[angelman]

yup wrong thread - didn't see t'other one.

[moonraker]

Image is everything. Holding your knife and fork properly is an integral part of suceeding in life because if you can hold your knife and fork properly you can mix in any circle and thus open doors to opportunities.

 

Sounds like that you have discovered the secret to success, you should write a book as I have never come across the Knife and Fork theroy of success before it would complement, Stephen Coveys The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People® and Dale Carnegies How to Win Friends and Influence People (neither conatin anything about table manners) Dune your onto a winner!

[dune]

Sounds like that you have discovered the secret to success, you should write a book as I have never come across the Knife and Fork theroy of success before it would complement, Stephen Coveys The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People® and Dale Carnegies How to Win Friends and Influence People (neither conatin anything about table manners) Dune your onto a winner!

 

You're..

[Mao Cap]

I have never heard of a right way to hold utensils. Give us a guide, I want to know whether I should feel smug or mortified at the next posh dinner party I go to.

[Colinjb]

I have never heard of a right way to hold utensils. Give us a guide, I want to know whether I should feel smug or mortified at the next posh dinner party I go to.

 

 

I believe this is the best way:

 

[Sheaf Saint]

Image is everything.

 

Wrong. Image is nothing, it's substance that counts. The world is a f***ed up place because of too many people who care too much about their image.

[dune]

Wrong. Image is nothing, it's substance that counts. The world is a f***ed up place because of too many people who care too much about their image.

 

If you go for a job you iron your shirt, polish your shoes, have a shave, groom your hair, make sure you nailes are cut and not dirty etc etc. Image is very important in getting on in life.

[Sheaf Saint]

If you go for a job you iron your shirt, polish your shoes, have a shave, groom your hair, make sure you nailes are cut and not dirty etc etc. Image is very important in getting on in life.

 

Do you not see the absurdity of that though?

[Colinjb]

If you go for a job you iron your shirt, polish your shoes, have a shave, groom your hair, make sure you nailes are cut and not dirty etc etc. Image is very important in getting on in life.

 

Yet image counts for nothing if you do not have the ability to do the job you have groomed for.

[Baj]

If you go for a job you iron your shirt, polish your shoes, have a shave, groom your hair, make sure you nailes are cut and not dirty etc etc. Image is very important in getting on in life.

 

Precisely. Saying image is nothing is ludicrous. Your image combined with your substance is what can make you stand out from others lacking in either area. I teach my own kids manners, how to use and hold their cutlery, as well as asking to leave the table. I hope one day they see how important that was to eat meals in a civilized manner, and pass this onto their own children.

[moonraker]

Image is not the same as cleanliness and smartness.

[dune]

Image is not the same as cleanliness and smartness.

 

If you're unwashed and scruffy it's an image.

[Sheaf Saint]

Precisely. Saying image is nothing is ludicrous. Your image combined with your substance is what can make you stand out from others lacking in either area.

 

OK, in terms of applying for a job, I agree with you, even if I don't believe that it should be that way. But in everyday life, I constantly encounter people who are obsessed with their own image as if everybody else actually gives a damn, and I am reminded of a famous quote from Mark Twain...

 

"You wouldn't worry what other people thought of you if you knew how seldom they did".

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Can we add an individual holding the door open for another to this list? I cannot stand it when I'm walking behind someone and they just let the door slam shut; hold it open you disgusting oik. Furthermore, should someone not say 'thank you' when I hold the door open they themselves are in danger of having their name turned to mud.

[Whitey Grandad]

The essence of good manners is to make one's guests feel comfortable and 'at home'. To comment upon their table habits would be infra dig., although it would be infra dig. for anyone of true class to to ever use such a term.

[Whitey Grandad]

Can we add an individual holding the door open for another to this list? I cannot stand it when I'm walking behind someone and they just let the door slam shut; hold it open you disgusting oik. Furthermore, should someone not say 'thank you' when I hold the door open they themselves are in danger of having their name turned to mud.

 

At last! a like mind. Even worse, I find, is when you hold the door open for someone and they suddenly stop and look at something, not even aware that you are offering them a courtesy.

[dune]

The essence of good manners is to make one's guests feel comfortable and 'at home'. To comment upon their table habits would be infra dig., although it would be infra dig. for anyone of true class to to ever use such a term.

 

You'd never comment on it, but you'd notice it. Well I would anyway and the higher you go up the class system (it's there like it or not) the more important little details are in getting on.

[Johnny Bognor]

Can we add an individual holding the door open for another to this list? I cannot stand it when I'm walking behind someone and they just let the door slam shut; hold it open you disgusting oik. Furthermore, should someone not say 'thank you' when I hold the door open they themselves are in danger of having their name turned to mud.

 

This is one of those rare occasions where I totally agree with you.

 

Manners is something that seperates us from the apes. It is not a class thing - there are rude upper class people and polite / well mannered working class people. People with manners display the traits of a good parental upbringing and general respect for others.

[Colinjb]

This is one of those rare occasions where I totally agree with you.

 

Manners is something that seperates us from the apes. It is not a class thing - there are rude upper class people and polite / well mannered working class people. People with manners display the traits of a good parental upbringing and general respect for others.

 

Absolutely correct.

[Whitey Grandad]

You'd never comment on it, but you'd notice it. Well I would anyway and the higher you go up the class system (it's there like it or not) the more important little details are in getting on.

 

Well, Dune, you can't go much higher than us.

[Ohio Saint]

I noticed a few years ago that when I eat in a restaurant here in the US people watch me eat. Not because I am holding the cutlery "Correctly" but because I use the knife and fork at the same time throughout the meal. I think it's considered some kind of super power here or something.

[Whitey Grandad]

I noticed a few years ago that when I eat in a restaurant here in the US people watch me eat. Not because I am holding the cutlery "Correctly" but because I use the knife and fork at the same time throughout the meal. I think it's considered some kind of super power here or something.

 

It marks you out as 'British', and consequently of higher class than any of the locals.

[Smirking_Saint]

Unfortunately people that are higher up the supposed 'class' list that in this day and age is very much archaic system, tend to have less class than your standard well mannered working class people. You look at people who's family tree is bedding within class and money and they tend to look down on people, be far more prejudiced and believe that the world owes them a living.

 

I have far more respect for someone that works hard, has respect for their fellow man and holds a high amount of manners.

[dronskisaint]

Correct. Go in any restaurant and you'll see people with put on posh accents holding their knife and fork wrong. These people are the snobs, those who hold their knives and forks properly have the real class.

 

Wrongly