can i have some Dads right's ..please.

[saint lard]

I apologise in advance if this is not the place to "put this out there" but i am at a point where i need to get things of my chest.

 

My ex partner is taking my son to live with her new partner in Andover in January,this i can understand,but it is the fact that i will now not be able to see and have him to stay on a Wednesday night and also a Sunday night that is quite upsetting.

 

Originally she could not wait for me to have the little man on Wedsnesday nights and to have him overnight on Sundays,as this was convenient to her to see the new wealthy fella.This may seem trivial to you,but every moment spent with your'e child who you do not have regular contact with is precious.

 

now that she is moving this is not the case as she is putting him in nursery for 5 days a week,hence he cannnot travel too and forth to Gosport,it was agreed in writing with a solicitor present that initially he would attend 3 days a week which would allow me to pick him up and drop him off.

 

This was agreed prior as we had sourced a nursery and a good school in the local area.

 

I don't want to be a Dad in name only,i want to be included 100%.but she and the new bloke went out and looked for places without my imput.

She is getting everything the way she wants it,the poor fella dosen't come into the equation it seems.

Everything she does appears to be for the benefit of her career and happiness.

All i want to do is be there for my little boy...but this seems to be being taken away from me,i am worried that any fuss i make she will attempt to stop me having contact with him.

She states it is only a few hours less that i will not see my son,but to me it is telling him a story,putting him to bed and saying goodnight to him that means alot,not the time spent in doing so.

I haven't explained my cicumstances very well.

I can understand why fathers get so desperate,at times there is no place to turn,all we want to be is a Dad.

 

Fathers 4 justice may have gone about things in the wrong manner,but i can see why they took the action they did.

[saint_stevo]

Lounge?

[Chez]

 

Fathers 4 justice may have gone about things in the wrong manner,but i can see why they took the action they did.

 

who says they went about things the wrong way?

[saint lard]

Sorry Mod's put this in the wrong manor.

[Ponty]

I know it's not your fault they're moving away but put the effort in now and you'll reap the rewards later.

 

For awhile I was living and working in Leeds (and now Oxford) and my ex was (and still is) in Southampton with my child and I still saw her every Sunday, and now every other Saturday and Sunday. Yes it was expensive but now, a few years down the line, my daughter trusts me that I'm going to do what I say I'll do and be there when I say I will. It's worth it.

[saint lard]

who says they went about things the wrong way?

 

It seems alot of people i talk too think that this organisation did thing in in a un appropriate manner.

 

I was just hedging my bets that some on here would discredit their methods.

 

Until recently i thought they were a reckless.

But being in the situation i find myself i can understand the desperation that Dads feel.

Ok, the action they took was not always legal but they brought alot of attention to a plight that many fathers found themslves in.

[saint lard]

I don't want my son to think i abandoned him or gave up without a fight.

[Guest Hacienda]

I don't want my son to think i abandoned him or gave up without a fight.

 

Then be there whenever you can be, speak to him whenever you can do and never break a promise you make.

 

As he grows you'll still be his dad, he'll love and trust you because you've always tried and strived to do the best for him.

 

As a father of 3 my heart genuinely goes out to you.

[Seaford Saint]

Hacienda says it all really mate. Swallow your pride and behave the best you can for your son. It is a fact that men are second class citizens in most divorces. I remember the helplessness I felt when I was in the same situation as you.

 

There's not many men on here who'd agree with you that any time you spend with your son would be a trivial matter. We know how much it means.

 

I can only wish you good luck. It will get better for you and your son if you do everything you can to stay in his life

[Totton Red]

I apologise in advance if this is not the place to "put this out there" but i am at a point where i need to get things of my chest.

 

My ex partner is taking my son to live with her new partner in Andover in January,this i can understand,but it is the fact that i will now not be able to see and have him to stay on a Wednesday night and also a Sunday night that is quite upsetting.

 

Originally she could not wait for me to have the little man on Wedsnesday nights and to have him overnight on Sundays,as this was convenient to her to see the new wealthy fella.This may seem trivial to you,but every moment spent with your'e child who you do not have regular contact with is precious.

 

now that she is moving this is not the case as she is putting him in nursery for 5 days a week,hence he cannnot travel too and forth to Gosport,it was agreed in writing with a solicitor present that initially he would attend 3 days a week which would allow me to pick him up and drop him off.

 

This was agreed prior as we had sourced a nursery and a good school in the local area.

 

I don't want to be a Dad in name only,i want to be included 100%.but she and the new bloke went out and looked for places without my imput.

She is getting everything the way she wants it,the poor fella dosen't come into the equation it seems.

Everything she does appears to be for the benefit of her career and happiness.

All i want to do is be there for my little boy...but this seems to be being taken away from me,i am worried that any fuss i make she will attempt to stop me having contact with him.

She states it is only a few hours less that i will not see my son,but to me it is telling him a story,putting him to bed and saying goodnight to him that means alot,not the time spent in doing so.

I haven't explained my cicumstances very well.

I can understand why fathers get so desperate,at times there is no place to turn,all we want to be is a Dad.

 

Fathers 4 justice may have gone about things in the wrong manner,but i can see why they took the action they did.

 

Quick question.....were you married or not?

[JustMike]

do you have parental responsibility..ie were you married or if not, was your name on the birth certificate. Im a single dad too and have gone through the mill myself since 1999 for one reason or another. What i suggest you do is go back to court and ask for shared residency or if thats not what you want, ask for weekends, alternate or something. Also, there are nurseries in Gosport too, meaning that, ok, arrange for him to maybe goto nursery in andover for 4 days then you pick up up on say the thursday night, take him to nursery yourself in gosport, pick up up then have the whole weekend with him. See a solicitor mate, there are so many options for you

[saint lard]

Quick question.....were you married or not?

No we were not married.

 

We did however live together and purchased a house jointly,which i signed over to her to save any upheaval for my boy as splitting it down the middle would have left us both with nothing really as there was no equity in it and she would not have had anywhere to go.

 

It works out quite nicely for her to move in with the new bloke who has a large property. and she can sell or even rent out our old home.

Meanwhile i'm back to renting.

[saint lard]

I do have parental responsibility as my name is on the birth certificate and he was born after December 2003 which is when new legislation took effect from which atleast goes in my favour.but in all honesty it makes very little difference to what i can do.

 

I have sourced a really nice nursery in Gosport just down the road from where i now live,and also it has a school close by which he could go onto.

She dragged her feet to letting him go there,now i Know why.

 

I will have him alternate weekends,Fri night to Sun afternoon that may seem sufficient to some but that to me is really not much time at all.

Atleast i get that so,i suppose,i should be happy....but i'm not,i am just being dictated to by her so her life is made easy.

The little one needs stability and the easiest way for him to get that is for me to put up with it.

 

But it dosen't mean it's right.

Edited 8 October, 2008 by saint lard

[Baj]

God this thread is so hard to read. I dont have anything helpful to add other than i hope you come to a resolution that you're happy with. good luck

[stevegrant]

It seems alot of people i talk too think that this organisation did thing in in a un appropriate manner.

From my point of view (I have no kids), their aims are entirely worthy, but the methods they are famous for are a bit of a double-edged sword, and they're in a catch-22 situation.

 

On one hand, they need to do something that gets their cause a bit of media attention, but on the other, some of the things they've done could (and is) be perceived by many to show exactly why they've not been given as much access to their children as they feel they deserve. Some would argue that breaking into Buckingham Palace (in an age of tightened national security) and climbing onto a balcony doesn't paint a particularly good picture of a responsible father.

 

Anyway, that's a slight tangent. Good luck.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

From my point of view (I have no kids), their aims are entirely worthy, but the methods they are famous for are a bit of a double-edged sword, and they're in a catch-22 situation.

 

On one hand, they need to do something that gets their cause a bit of media attention, but on the other, some of the things they've done could (and is) be perceived by many to show exactly why they've not been given as much access to their children as they feel they deserve. Some would argue that breaking into Buckingham Palace (in an age of tightened national security) and climbing onto a balcony doesn't paint a particularly good picture of a responsible father.

 

Anyway, that's a slight tangent. Good luck.

 

You make a fair point Steve but I do wonder how emotionally battered a man might be before trying to do something 'spectacular' to draw the public's attention to his plight? In saying that I add that I don't condone their actions but, apart from doing the Bhuddist monk protest, what could one do? As explained earlier non domicile fathers are treated very poorly, if the ex so wishes!

 

Mine faffed off to Leicester with a man she hardly knew (met on teh innernet) and could have exposed my daughter to Lord knows what. And all I could do on Nov 27th 1999 was smile through the tears and gritted teeth and wave goodbye to my, then only, child!

 

My daughter, now 13, is back in Southampton (the big love failed) and she seems a total stranger to me.

 

I can understand where saint lard is coming from.

[saint1977]

I'm getting married in March but no kids as yet. All I can say is to wish you all the best, do keep the contact with your kids though as it keeps the trust as they get older. Sounds like you're well off away from your ex though, let the new bloke get done over by her. There's plenty of lovely women out there with a good heart that will treat you better than she did.

[saint1977]

You make a fair point Steve but I do wonder how emotionally battered a man might be before trying to do something 'spectacular' to draw the public's attention to his plight? In saying that I add that I don't condone their actions but, apart from doing the Bhuddist monk protest, what could one do? As explained earlier non domicile fathers are treated very poorly, if the ex so wishes!

 

Mine faffed off to Leicester with a man she hardly knew (met on teh innernet) and could have exposed my daughter to Lord knows what. And all I could do on Nov 27th 1999 was smile through the tears and gritted teeth and wave goodbye to my, then only, child!

 

My daughter, now 13, is back in Southampton (the big love failed) and she seems a total stranger to me.

 

I can understand where saint lard is coming from.

 

Men do quite often get an awful deal out of divorce and not much better from the family courts either. About time the courts took a hard line on mothers that do not stick to access agreements (including prison) but pigs might fly while we have arch-feminists like Harriet Harman in Government.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm getting married in March but no kids as yet. All I can say is to wish you all the best, do keep the contact with your kids though as it keeps the trust as they get older. Sounds like you're well off away from your ex though, let the new bloke get done over by her. There's plenty of lovely women out there with a good heart that will treat you better than she did.

 

And yet another, very fair point. I met my Mrs back late in 2000. We are still together throughout all the problems which we have both had to endure together. When I look back at my two marriages (I know, silly old ESB) I realise that in neither of them was I in love with the woman. What I have now is a deep, abiding and eternal love. It flows both ways and we both work to nurture the love and each other. There are lovely women out there. I know, I have one sharing our lives.

[MINIBARCELONASAINT]

sounds like what my mum has been suggesting to do for ages. i will never let her take me away from my dad........the wise old one BARCELONASAINT

[saint simes]

I too am sorry to hear of your plight having been through over 10 years of problems relating to contact with my daughter.

 

In my experience you will more than often come out 2nd best in any disagreement with your ex, it is not fair or just but there is not a lot you can do about it.

 

For what its worth my advice would be:

 

Maintain your dignity and don't argue with your ex, especially in front of your son. Just walk away.

 

Avoid the CSA at all cost. (Before anyone says anything I don't mean don't financially support your child, just don't let the CSA get involved.) Pay by standing order or some way you can prove what you pay.

 

Whatever you do maintain contact with your son, at times it will be hard but believe me when he gets older he will appreciate you more!

 

Good luck, you're not the first and you won't be the last.

[Pip87]

I'm so sorry to hear what you're going though. Don't give up. Keep doing the best you can to see you little boy as much as possible. When you do see him remind him you love him and miss him very much. I don't know how old he is - can you speak to him on the phone? A phone call every night would help keep you in his everyday life. In my experience call at the exact time that's arranged.

 

Certainly go and see a lawyer to see what your options are... and try to upset your ex as little as possible. I'm not saying appease her but just ensure you vent your frustration somewhere that's not shouting at her. As hard as i'm sure that'll be. Easy for me to say.

 

I don't have children so can't possibly know how hard this is for you. I really hope you manage to find a way to spend some more time with your son. Best of luck to you!

[saint lard]

Well, little man arrives at 5.30 tonight,so we are going to have a blast.

 

With ref CSA i pay her money per month which was an agreed amount.

I have asked her if i can open an account for me to put that money into as opposed to just handing over cash.

She can have the debit card but i get the statements,wont stop her spending it on whatever she likes but it will assist me to know where some of the money might be going and of course i will have evidence to show she is getting the money.

She was not too happy about this when i suggested it last week,proberbly because she is having our old house decorated and a new bathroom fitted so she could use the cash to pay the builders!

[JustMike]

I do have parental responsibility as my name is on the birth certificate and he was born after December 2003 which is when new legislation took effect from which atleast goes in my favour.but in all honesty it makes very little difference to what i can do.

 

I have sourced a really nice nursery in Gosport just down the road from where i now live,and also it has a school close by which he could go onto.

She dragged her feet to letting him go there,now i Know why.

 

I will have him alternate weekends,Fri night to Sun afternoon that may seem sufficient to some but that to me is really not much time at all.

Atleast i get that so,i suppose,i should be happy....but i'm not,i am just being dictated to by her so her life is made easy.

The little one needs stability and the easiest way for him to get that is for me to put up with it.

 

But it dosen't mean it's right.

 

thats where your wrong mate. Have you been to court over contact yet? Judges are all for giving fathers as much time as possible with their kids, especially if their commited, as you sound like you are. Give it a go mate, you may be surprised. I know of one situation where a father didnt bother with his daughter, who is 2 for 8 months, no contact what so ever. He went to court and now gets every other weekend plus week days too. So imagine what you could achieve.

[simo]

This is the hardest thing in life i have ever had to deal with ! When my first son was born me and my ex had already split up and i spent 2 years in and out of court to get my rights. It was a horrible time but worth it in the end my boy is now 6 and i see him every week ! But i have just split from my youngest's ( who is 2) mother and she says she wont stop me seeing him but we will see i dont know if i can stomach another fight ! But i will do what i have to!

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Is it me that thinks only womens minds work in this spiteful way. I hear the same old story over and over again. Its almost as if the women take out their frustration on the men by messing around with how much they can see the kids, knowing full well that women normally hold the trumph cards!

 

F*cking disgusts me. I feel for you St Lard and wish you all the best. I think as JustMike says, you should really contact a solicitor about gaining residential custody for a few days a week. This would then concrete your agreement with your wife.

 

I know you dont want to upset her at all for the little ones stability, however, who is to say that if things dont work out well with the place in Andover that they wont move even further away? What happens if he gets a job overseas? She will go with him. I know its not something you want to think about, however a court agreement would protect you against this.

 

FWIW I think as someone above says, having him go to nursery a few days in Gosport as well as a few days in Andover would be a good idea.

 

Or worst case scenario, have you thought about renting in Andover?

[bridge too far]

Sometimes the men are sh*te too, I_N_S.

 

I know of a man who decided, when his daughter was 6 weeks old (and after his partner had undergone a caesarian because the baby was breeched), that he didn't want to be a father after all! So he abandoned them.

 

But you're right about some women using the children as a bargaining tool. And I say that as a woman!

 

Some women irreparably damage their children emotionally by bad-mouthing the father and denying him access.

 

It's never black and white, however.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

I appreciate its not all one way, but more often than not you hear about women denying access rights to the father, because they can. Than a father that doesnt want anything to do with his child

[Seaford Saint]

Sometimes the men are sh*te too, I_N_S.

 

I know of a man who decided, when his daughter was 6 weeks old (and after his partner had undergone a caesarian because the baby was breeched), that he didn't want to be a father after all! So he abandoned them.

 

But you're right about some women using the children as a bargaining tool. And I say that as a woman!

 

Some women irreparably damage their children emotionally by bad-mouthing the father and denying him access.

 

It's never black and white, however.

 

I took a keen interest when I got divorced 7 years ago in anyone else getting divorced at that time. This is what I experienced and saw. None of the men stood a chance of residence of their kids. All the men were at the mercy of their ex wives one way or another. All the men gave away considerably more than half the assets and some as much as 80% despite the fact that the men had usually provided most of the assets in the first place.

 

Most annoying in my case was pensionable earnings being earned by the man, nothing to do with the lady also being taken into account and split with a proportion given to the wife.

 

I hope the lad stays in touch with his son but having seen the state that some get into regarding access I fully understand why some men walk away, they'd crack up if they didn't.

 

Before you ask, after having given away 70% of the assets that I had worked hard to acquire long before I'd met my ex, my kids now live with me.

[saint boggy]

I took a keen interest when I got divorced 7 years ago in anyone else getting divorced at that time. This is what I experienced and saw. None of the men stood a chance of residence of their kids. All the men were at the mercy of their ex wives one way or another. All the men gave away considerably more than half the assets and some as much as 80% despite the fact that the men had usually provided most of the assets in the first place.

 

Most annoying in my case was pensionable earnings being earned by the man, nothing to do with the lady also being taken into account and split with a proportion given to the wife.

 

I hope the lad stays in touch with his son but having seen the state that some get into regarding access I fully understand why some men walk away, they'd crack up if they didn't.

 

Before you ask, after having given away 70% of the assets that I had worked hard to acquire long before I'd met my ex, my kids now live with me.

 

i understand what you're saying TTV but i'd just like to try n put a few points across here, just to even the male/female perspective on this issue.

the first part of my reply is ,presumably , what people percieve when they look at purely the FACTS.

the second paragraph is like a window into the background of the real issues at work here.

1) the "perception":

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.

she can sit on her @rse all day, while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet.

2) the reality:

this is my story..

i am married (since 1997) and have a 4 yr old and a 6yr old...

2 and a half years ago my husband ,completely out of the blue, informed me that he wasn't happy and that he wanted a break "just to get his head straight.......(we had been in a happy,loving relationship for 16 years previous to this)..

anyway, 2 weeks after he moved out,leaving me with a 3 year old and a 16month old, i found out that he was seeing someone else....nice,huh!!

anyway , that fizzled out , as these things tend to do.

we gave it another shot,for our own sakes aswell as the kids'.

but after a few months it became apparent that things were not working out, i'd seen a side to him that i never even knew existed and could not get past the betrayal, tbh.

so, we decided to make a clean break.

while he looked for a place to live, we re-mortgaged our marital home in order for him to put down a deposit on a new place.we agreed that me and the children continue to live in the family home, as this would cause the least upset to our kids (maintaining stability for them was our number 1 priority).my husband having residential custody was not an option, as he is a much higher earner than me, and there is NO WAY on this earth that i would live without my boys.

my ex pays me £250 a month (which i think is more than reasonable from his point of view ) for 2 young children..............

he comes round twice a week to have tea with our boys (mealtimes are very important to maintaining a family-bond i think) and the boys stay with their dad most Friday nights into Saturday daytime.we are very amicable and have always maintained that our own feelings about issues that we may have, come second to the welfare of our kids. if the boys see their parents are comfortable in each others company, then the parental unit that they know is still intact......we are always saying to them that just because mummy n daddy don't live together doesn't mean we're not a family....i feel desperately sorry (for the kids) that other "grown-ups" can't see past their own selfish wants to make their own offsprings wants and needs the priority...(trust me, i sometimes WANT to wrap a baseball bat round my ex's head for what he did to our family, but at the end of the day that wouldn't make my kids hate him, nor love me any more) and any parent who thinks that badmouthing their ex in front of their kids will have that effect , is also sorely mistaken....

anyway, the point i was trying to make, was that anyone looking in from the outside would see,

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.he should've thought of that whilst he was thinking of having an affair!

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.money doesn't go far these days, and it's not just about feeding n clothing them.......it's keeping them warm at night, paying for the electricity they use,school trips etc, it all adds up...these children are ours 50/50, and so, the cost of taking care of ALL their needs should be met by both of us 50/50, yes???

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.he's already had his share of the equity out of the house, but to outsiders it will look like he's got nothing from any future sale.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.,whoopdy doo!! one poxy night a week, when he can go out the other 6, if he so desires!! she can sit on her @rse all day , while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet. aswell as being a fulltime mum, i work 2 part time jobs (one of which i do at home, when the kids are in bed) and 2 casual jobs, so i make that 5 in total!!!

anyway, i hope that i have made my point about how things may look and how they REALLY are.

truth is only relative to your perception of it.

Saint Lard, i hope that you can come to some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement with your ex. it is heartbreaking to think that some women use their kids as weapons, and it makes me angry and embarrassed that they belong to the same gender as me.

 

 

 

wow, ive waffled on for ages!!! sorry!!!

 

(that was better than a counselling session, and cheaper!!)

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

aswell as being a fulltime mum, i work 2 part time jobs (one of which i do at home, when the kids are in bed)

 

Good thread StB, however, this did make me chuckle.

 

What exactly is it you do at night for money when the kids are in bed?!

[Poshie72]

i understand what you're saying TTV but i'd just like to try n put a few points across here, just to even the male/female perspective on this issue.

the first part of my reply is ,presumably , what people percieve when they look at purely the FACTS.

the second paragraph is like a window into the background of the real issues at work here.

1) the "perception":

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.

she can sit on her @rse all day, while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet.

2) the reality:

this is my story..

i am married (since 1997) and have a 4 yr old and a 6yr old...

2 and a half years ago my husband ,completely out of the blue, informed me that he wasn't happy and that he wanted a break "just to get his head straight.......(we had been in a happy,loving relationship for 16 years previous to this)..

anyway, 2 weeks after he moved out,leaving me with a 3 year old and a 16month old, i found out that he was seeing someone else....nice,huh!!

anyway , that fizzled out , as these things tend to do.

we gave it another shot,for our own sakes aswell as the kids'.

but after a few months it became apparent that things were not working out, i'd seen a side to him that i never even knew existed and could not get past the betrayal, tbh.

so, we decided to make a clean break.

while he looked for a place to live, we re-mortgaged our marital home in order for him to put down a deposit on a new place.we agreed that me and the children continue to live in the family home, as this would cause the least upset to our kids (maintaining stability for them was our number 1 priority).my husband having residential custody was not an option, as he is a much higher earner than me, and there is NO WAY on this earth that i would live without my boys.

my ex pays me £250 a month (which i think is more than reasonable from his point of view ) for 2 young children..............

he comes round twice a week to have tea with our boys (mealtimes are very important to maintaining a family-bond i think) and the boys stay with their dad most Friday nights into Saturday daytime.we are very amicable and have always maintained that our own feelings about issues that we may have, come second to the welfare of our kids. if the boys see their parents are comfortable in each others company, then the parental unit that they know is still intact......we are always saying to them that just because mummy n daddy don't live together doesn't mean we're not a family....i feel desperately sorry (for the kids) that other "grown-ups" can't see past their own selfish wants to make their own offsprings wants and needs the priority...(trust me, i sometimes WANT to wrap a baseball bat round my ex's head for what he did to our family, but at the end of the day that wouldn't make my kids hate him, nor love me any more) and any parent who thinks that badmouthing their ex in front of their kids will have that effect , is also sorely mistaken....

anyway, the point i was trying to make, was that anyone looking in from the outside would see,

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.he should've thought of that whilst he was thinking of having an affair!

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.money doesn't go far these days, and it's not just about feeding n clothing them.......it's keeping them warm at night, paying for the electricity they use,school trips etc, it all adds up...these children are ours 50/50, and so, the cost of taking care of ALL their needs should be met by both of us 50/50, yes???

 

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.he's already had his share of the equity out of the house, but to outsiders it will look like he's got nothing from any future sale.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.,whoopdy doo!! one poxy night a week, when he can go out the other 6, if he so desires!! she can sit on her @rse all day , while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet. aswell as being a fulltime mum, i work 2 part time jobs (one of which i do at home, when the kids are in bed) and 2 casual jobs, so i make that 5 in total!!!

 

anyway, i hope that i have made my point about how things may look and how they REALLY are.

truth is only relative to your perception of it.

Saint Lard, i hope that you can come to some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement with your ex. it is heartbreaking to think that some women use their kids as weapons, and it makes me angry and embarrassed that they belong to the same gender as me.

 

 

 

 

 

wow, ive waffled on for ages!!! sorry!!!

 

(that was better than a counselling session, and cheaper!!)

 

Just wanted to add my perspective and even up the female side.

 

Married in 1993 and divorced finalised August 08. Not going to go into details as was very messy and I have already said some of it on a previous thread from St Lard. But to answer the same 5 points as St Boggy:

 

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like. This was his choice. When we decided on the split I said he could remain in the house until we decided what to do. HE decided to rent a room 2 weeks later.

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent Not in my case. i have had approx £800 since he moved out in March 2007. Yes he paid mortgage and bills but this stopped in July 07 when I found full time employment. Every month I am promised money, none is forth coming. He has now been made bankrupt. Cant go through the CSA as he is self-employed so little they can do if he doesnt pay

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it In the divorce the judge split the equity 50/50. Gave me the right to live there until my youngest was 21 or finished tertiary education. However now that he has been made bankrupt I will have approx 1 year before I will be forced to sell by the official reciever. Due to the fact that he has left me with his debts (like a good wife I took them out in my name), if I wait a year, the equity that there is will be gone and I will not be able to clear my debts. So therefore I am now having to sell up, and because of the credit crunch will not be able to get a mortgage so will have to rent at double what I am currently paying.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up Not a hope. He has a self contained room in a house and is unable to have the kids over night. Therefore I NEVER get a night off

she can sit on her @rse all day , while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet. I obtained full time employment after the split. I leave at 8am and am not home until 6.30pm. I also am studying to be a qualified accountant (I study when the kids are in bed) so I can make a better life for myself and the kids. Meanwhile being self employed he decides whether he works or not, even stated at one time that he was unable to work due to my unreasonable behaviour!!!!

So it is not always the man that has the raw deal.

 

St Lard, I know I have posted my thoughts on your position before. Please try to sort it out amicably without the courts. It will be better in the long run. Despite what my ex has done, i still let him see them on an ad-hoc basis even when my family and friends tell me I should refuse access as he doesnt pay. At the end of the day my sons did not ask to be born or want their parents to live apart, so wh should they suffer.

[tpbury]

A tremendous thread. It's fascinating to hear your experiences - it's clear anyone can be a 5hit. I often think how I would be presented to the public should things go (even more) worse with my relationship. I think most people in a failing relationship are in so much pain, particularly in respect of the children, that they often can't think straight, or get very depressed about it. This affects how they appear as a 'mother' or 'father' and maybe this can make them appear to be manipulative in some way. Some people are first class ****es however.

 

I would ask all those who've been through it - 'Are things better now than before?'

[saint boggy]

Good thread StB, however, this did make me chuckle.

 

What exactly is it you do at night for money when the kids are in bed?!

lol.......i knew someone would think what i think you're thinking INS!! LOL

 

 

unfortunately it's nothing anywhere near as interesting as that!!!

(altho, if times get hard in years to come, i may give it a go!! ):smt037

[Seaford Saint]

i understand what you're saying TTV but i'd just like to try n put a few points across here, just to even the male/female perspective on this issue.

the first part of my reply is ,presumably , what people percieve when they look at purely the FACTS.

the second paragraph is like a window into the background of the real issues at work here.

1) the "perception":

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.

she can sit on her @rse all day, while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet.

2) the reality:

this is my story..

i am married (since 1997) and have a 4 yr old and a 6yr old...

2 and a half years ago my husband ,completely out of the blue, informed me that he wasn't happy and that he wanted a break "just to get his head straight.......(we had been in a happy,loving relationship for 16 years previous to this)..

anyway, 2 weeks after he moved out,leaving me with a 3 year old and a 16month old, i found out that he was seeing someone else....nice,huh!!

anyway , that fizzled out , as these things tend to do.

we gave it another shot,for our own sakes aswell as the kids'.

but after a few months it became apparent that things were not working out, i'd seen a side to him that i never even knew existed and could not get past the betrayal, tbh.

so, we decided to make a clean break.

while he looked for a place to live, we re-mortgaged our marital home in order for him to put down a deposit on a new place.we agreed that me and the children continue to live in the family home, as this would cause the least upset to our kids (maintaining stability for them was our number 1 priority).my husband having residential custody was not an option, as he is a much higher earner than me, and there is NO WAY on this earth that i would live without my boys.

my ex pays me £250 a month (which i think is more than reasonable from his point of view ) for 2 young children..............

he comes round twice a week to have tea with our boys (mealtimes are very important to maintaining a family-bond i think) and the boys stay with their dad most Friday nights into Saturday daytime.we are very amicable and have always maintained that our own feelings about issues that we may have, come second to the welfare of our kids. if the boys see their parents are comfortable in each others company, then the parental unit that they know is still intact......we are always saying to them that just because mummy n daddy don't live together doesn't mean we're not a family....i feel desperately sorry (for the kids) that other "grown-ups" can't see past their own selfish wants to make their own offsprings wants and needs the priority...(trust me, i sometimes WANT to wrap a baseball bat round my ex's head for what he did to our family, but at the end of the day that wouldn't make my kids hate him, nor love me any more) and any parent who thinks that badmouthing their ex in front of their kids will have that effect , is also sorely mistaken....

anyway, the point i was trying to make, was that anyone looking in from the outside would see,

he had to move out and so doesn't see the kids as much as he would like.he should've thought of that whilst he was thinking of having an affair!

he pays her decent money which he has no say over how it's spent.money doesn't go far these days, and it's not just about feeding n clothing them.......it's keeping them warm at night, paying for the electricity they use,school trips etc, it all adds up...these children are ours 50/50, and so, the cost of taking care of ALL their needs should be met by both of us 50/50, yes???

he won't get a penny out of the house when she's sells it.he's already had his share of the equity out of the house, but to outsiders it will look like he's got nothing from any future sale.

she can go out EVERY friday n get p1ssed up.,whoopdy doo!! one poxy night a week, when he can go out the other 6, if he so desires!! she can sit on her @rse all day , while he works 3 jobs just to make ends meet. aswell as being a fulltime mum, i work 2 part time jobs (one of which i do at home, when the kids are in bed) and 2 casual jobs, so i make that 5 in total!!!

anyway, i hope that i have made my point about how things may look and how they REALLY are.

truth is only relative to your perception of it.

Saint Lard, i hope that you can come to some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement with your ex. it is heartbreaking to think that some women use their kids as weapons, and it makes me angry and embarrassed that they belong to the same gender as me.

 

 

 

wow, ive waffled on for ages!!! sorry!!!

 

(that was better than a counselling session, and cheaper!!)

 

Thanks for the reply, it is interesting to see it from a woman's point of view. The point I was making is this, the woman in a divorce can and often do make lives a misery for men. My ex didn't as it turned out make my life a misery because I got my divorce for free courtesy of the brother in law and she had to pay for hers and the more she fought the more cost she incurred. Me ex did want and expect 80% of assets and had she got that, my kids would have been in the same position as a few of the colleagues at work. They'd have nowhere to stay overnight. One colleague had his kids once a week for 3 hours on a Friday night. This is only 5 years ago and the judge ordered this arrangement for the first 18 months so the ex wife did not got too stressed.

His kids cried for most of the first 6 months....another colleague anded up in a flat whilst his wife got the house....this is a man who earned £70K a year. He also paid her mortgage.

 

Oh and I remember my ex saying give me an extra £10K and I'll let you see the kids as often as you want.

Edited 11 October, 2008 by Seaford Saint

[saint boggy]

Thanks for the reply, it is interesting to see it from a woman's point of view. The point I was making is this, the woman in a divorce can and often do make lives a misery for men. My ex didn't as it turned out make my life a misery because I got my divorce for free courtesy of the brother in law and she had to pay for hers and the more she fought the more cost she incurred. Me ex did want and expect 80% of assets and had she got that, my kids would have been in the same position as a few of the colleagues at work. They'd have nowhere to stay overnight. One colleague had his kids once a week for 3 hours on a Friday night. This is only 5 years ago and the judge ordered this arrangement for the first 18 months so the ex wife did not got too stressed.

His kids cried for most of the first 6 months....another colleague anded up in a flat whilst his wife got the house....this is a man who earned £70K a year. He also paid her mortgage.

 

Oh and I remember my ex saying give me an extra £10K and I'll let you see the kids as often as you want.

and so he should!!

i'm sorry, if that comes across as chauvanistic, but they both knowingly conceived the child/ren, with the intent of providing everything that a child needs to be happy and healthy.

so, just because the parents (or in my case, the father) decided that wasn't what they wanted anymore, the child should then be thrust into a downward spiral of financial and emotional turmoil??? as in POSHIE72 's case?? i don't think so!!!!

my outgoings every month are £650,(this is only my Direct Debits, not inc food,petrol,car tax,school expenses etc. my ex pays me £250. that's only a third of the cost of raising OUR children. if he was living at home with us, he would be paying for ALL of those expenses, and we would have plenty of money left over at the end of the month to pay for luxuries.

my mortgage, is luckily fairly small compared to some people i know, so i can manage to pay it , so long as my ex pays the agreed amount every month, which i'm sure he will. so my children have that stability, but it is when that stability is threatened that (some) women will become what men see as vindictive.......obviously there are some women who are the exception to that rule, and are just b1tches from the word go, but then again there are plenty of men out there that think that once they no longer live in the same house as their child , that their financial and emotional responsibility to that child ends too!!!!!!

 

this is f*cking disgusting, and is what REALLY p1sses me off about some women!!!!

Edited 11 October, 2008 by saint boggy

[1976_Child]

To the original poster:

 

Mate, you are living in a frickin dream world. The bunch of R-s Holes in government at the moment never could, and certainly never will, give an ounce of monkey t0ss about straight white men. If you're black or brown or yellow then they are only slightly more interested. To even think that the courts would treat a father equal to a mother is to live in a fantasy world.

 

My best mate was and always is a fantastic father to his two girls. When he split from his wife she even went on record to say that their relationship had just grown cold - there was no shouting, no violence and certainly nothing that would indicate that my mate was in anyway a bad father to his girls. However his wife was convinced by some ****-robbing little fart of a solicitor (who was a confirmed militant lesbian) that it was best to fight in court for sole custody as problems might occur in years to come. He can only see his girls every other weekend. And he has his wages docked £89 per week direct into his ex's bank account. She has just had a holiday in Greece with her new partner who is very wealthy.

 

Mate, justice for men and Dads is not going to happen with this bunch of shisters in government at the moment. I am extremely sorry to hear your news but unfortunately it is all too common in this feminized society we live in. And they wonder why kids grow up as feral street dwellers? Simple, Mum may be necessary for breast feeding but Dads are vital too.

[Cosham Scientist]

This is all desperately sad. I hope things work out for all of you folk. Is there anyone out there who's actually still with the other parent of their offspring? I'm beginning to feel like a dying breed.

[saint boggy]

To the original poster:

 

Mate, you are living in a frickin dream world. The bunch of R-s Holes in government at the moment never could, and certainly never will, give an ounce of monkey t0ss about straight white men. If you're black or brown or yellow then they are only slightly more interested. To even think that the courts would treat a father equal to a mother is to live in a fantasy world.

 

My best mate was and always is a fantastic father to his two girls. When he split from his wife she even went on record to say that their relationship had just grown cold - there was no shouting, no violence and certainly nothing that would indicate that my mate was in anyway a bad father to his girls. However his wife was convinced by some ****-robbing little fart of a solicitor (who was a confirmed militant lesbian) that it was best to fight in court for sole custody as problems might occur in years to come. He can only see his girls every other weekend. And he has his wages docked £89 per week direct into his ex's bank account. She has just had a holiday in Greece with her new partner who is very wealthy.

 

Mate, justice for men and Dads is not going to happen with this bunch of shisters in government at the moment. I am extremely sorry to hear your news but unfortunately it is all too common in this feminized society we live in. And they wonder why kids grow up as feral street dwellers? Simple, Mum may be necessary for breast feeding but Dads are vital too.

 

i hope to God that you are not ensinuating that all louts are from broken families , and rarely see their fathers!!!

troublemakers come from homes where the parents are still together,ya know!!!

i'm assuming that you are fairly young, as your post shows a great deal of immaturity.

just for the record tho, if your friends had sat down calmly and discussed their children's future, rather than going thru the courts then i'm sure they could've worked out something .........and seeing your kids once every 2 weeks is a disgrace. children need more contact with their parents than that......if the mother had any shread of sense then she would realise this and allow the father better access,no matter what the court said.......at the end of the day the children suffer as much, if not more , than the ex-partner..

mind you, like i said in my previous post, truth is relative to your perspective.......if ,say, she had gone with the 'every weekend' access agreement, then i'm sure the father would be b1tching about how his ex gets EVERY weekend to herself, whilst he works all week and never gets a break!......:smt102....

 

 

men are from mars etc,etc.......

[Guest Hacienda]

This is all desperately sad. I hope things work out for all of you folk. Is there anyone out there who's actually still with the other parent of their offspring? I'm beginning to feel like a dying breed.

 

No, you're not alone.

[1976_Child]

i hope to God that you are not ensinuating that all louts are from broken families , and rarely see their fathers!!!

troublemakers come from homes where the parents are still together,ya know!!!

 

Actually there is strong statistical evidence showing that young lads who get into trouble with the police are more likely to come from broken families. I am not suggesting for a minute that kids from stable families don't go off the rails but the facts are that kids - usually boys - who do not have a male role model (aka Dad) in their lives are more likely to get into trouble.

 

And please get off you high horse. You are very condescending when you pompously assume that I am young and that my posts are "immature". I am not young and I know more about this subject than most. Partly through experience and partly through research undertaken whilst lobying parliament.

[Thedelldays]

fathers 4 justice are a rapidly increasing group who propose honest and sensible points for the government to consider...the fact that they refuse is why they protest like they do..

[Weston Saint]

This is all desperately sad. I hope things work out for all of you folk. Is there anyone out there who's actually still with the other parent of their offspring? I'm beginning to feel like a dying breed.

 

Hi mate good to hear from you.

 

I was 20 and my wife just 18 when we married much against the advice of our parents who never the less gave us all the support we could wish for when they realised we would go ahead in any event. We had been courting (old word I know but it was ok then) for exactly 3 years having been engaged for exactly 18 months.

 

Have been happily married now for over 35 years with two girls aged 32 and 26.

 

So it does work for some but as you will know you both have to work hard at it, be open and honest and share experiences.

 

Sorry to all those who have tried but have not been so lucky.

[saint boggy]

Actually there is strong statistical evidence showing that young lads who get into trouble with the police are more likely to come from broken families. I am not suggesting for a minute that kids from stable families don't go off the rails but the facts are that kids - usually boys - who do not have a male role model (aka Dad) in their lives are more likely to get into trouble.

 

And please get off you high horse. You are very condescending when you pompously assume that I am young and that my posts are "immature". I am not young and I know more about this subject than most. Partly through experience and partly through research undertaken whilst lobying parliament.

well, by the way you waded in with your sweeping generalisations, you did come across as a young man with a lot to say, but no vocabulary or desire to have a civilised discussion.

i don't know if you read the other posts in this thread, but they are mostly very heartfelt,poignant accounts of our own experiences of relationship breakdowns.......not really the time or place to come in like a bull in a china shop, spouting on about what a bunch of w*nkers the government are blah,blah, blah....you sounded like a foul-mouthed student protester.......i'm sorry, i'm not saying that is what you are, but that is how it came across.:smt102

if you had read the other posts on this thread you would've realised that this is not the direction that this thread was going in.

(and before you say it, yes, i am aware that this is a forum where people can voice their opinions........ but that also means that i too can voice my reaction just a freely)...

and if you think I'M on my high horse, maybe you should read your first post again in relation to the other posts on this thread, and ask yourself if it's not YOU , that is coming across that way..

[saint lard]

fathers 4 justice are a rapidly increasing group who propose honest and sensible points for the government to consider...the fact that they refuse is why they protest like they do..

 

http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/f4j/They pretty much have ceased to exist under the same guise.

 

Pretty interesting read,for those affected.

[Cosham Scientist]

No, you're not alone.

Have been happily married now for over 35 years

Cheers Hacienda and Weston; we were twenty-six I suppose and we'd been around a bit and it became obvious if we were going to marry anyone it would be each other, so we did. And that's nearly thirty years ago now. But I know a lot of other folk where it just hasn't worked out and you think, blimey! there but for fortune go any of us...

[saint boggy]

Cheers Hacienda and Weston; we were twenty-six I suppose and we'd been around a bit and it became obvious if we were going to marry anyone it would be each other, so we did. And that's nearly thirty years ago now. But I know a lot of other folk where it just hasn't worked out and you think, blimey! there but for fortune go any of us...

absolutely............i ,not for one second, ever thought i would be raising children on my own, and am devastated for my kids that they will grow up not being able to go on family holidays with their mum and dad, and for days out,pub lunches and so on.......for this, i will never forgive my ex, but i will also never allow it to cloud my judgement as to when/how/where he sees the children.

[Seaford Saint]

absolutely............i ,not for one second, ever thought i would be raising children on my own, and am devastated for my kids that they will grow up not being able to go on family holidays with their mum and dad, and for days out,pub lunches and so on.......for this, i will never forgive my ex, but i will also never allow it to cloud my judgement as to when/how/where he sees the children.

 

 

It does seem as if, unusually these days, you have come out of it as the mum, really badly. You are the exception and not the rule - but at least you have your kids. Are you sure you can't go back to the judge to expain what disposing of the house is going to mean to you. I wouldn't give up the house you and your kids need to live in without a fight.

 

I'd like to wish you the best of luck too!

[saint boggy]

It does seem as if, unusually these days, you have come out of it as the mum, really badly. You are the exception and not the rule - but at least you have your kids. Are you sure you can't go back to the judge to expain what disposing of the house is going to mean to you. I wouldn't give up the house you and your kids need to live in without a fight.

 

I'd like to wish you the best of luck too!

i think you may have meant that post for Poshie72, not me

 

and yeh, i too feel desparately sorry for her.

her ex obviously needs someone to have a little ahem,'chat' with him,eh!!!

 

and, unfortunately Poshie isn't the exception to the rule

my sister-in-law split from her husband 15 years ago when their son was just 2. he would promise their son that he would come n visit him each and every sunday, 90% of the time he wouldn't show, leaving their son distraught and in flood of tears,wondering why his daddy didn't love him enough to come and see him. he paid her very little ,if any, maintainance.eventually the house was re-possessed and she and her son had to live in temporary accomodation whilst waiting for a council flat to become available.

after 6 months, they got a flat in thornhill .she spent the next 8-9 years penny-pinching (in the extreme) ,whilst her ex husband had f*ked off to live in Australia with his new wife and new son, in their house with a swimming pool and his boat. my sister-in law could barely afford the money to fill up the bath for her son, while he was over in Oz living the life of riley!!! and not once sending her ANY money to help look after him.......my nephew is now 17 and has been in touch with his dad for about 5 years or so, via the internet. his dad came over in May for my nephews birthday, bringing his new family with him.......and do ya know what the tw"t had the audacity to do????????..........he handed my sister-in-law 50 quid, and when she asked him what that was for, he turned round and said..................' to go towards looking after our son' !!!!!!!!!!!!

how she never decked him , i don't know!!!!!!!!

so you see, women getting the rough end of the deal isn't all that unusual, it's just that we don't have a campaign group to highlight the problem.......

Edited 12 October, 2008 by saint boggy

[Seaford Saint]

i think you may have meant that post for Poshie72, not me

 

and yeh, i too feel desparately sorry for her.

her ex obviously needs someone to have a little ahem,'chat' with him,eh!!!

 

and, unfortunately Poshie isn't the exception to the rule

my sister-in-law split from her husband 15 years ago when their son was just 2. he would promise their son that he would come n visit him each and every sunday, 90% of the time he wouldn't show, leaving their son distraught and in flood of tears,wondering why his daddy didn't love him enough to come and see him. he paid her very little ,if any, maintainance.eventually the house was re-possessed and she and her son had to live in temporary accomodation whilst waiting for a council flat to become available.

after 6 months, they got a flat in thornhill .she spent the next 8-9 years penny-pinching (in the extreme) ,whilst her ex husband had f*ked off to live in Australia with his new wife and new son, in their house with a swimming pool and his boat. my sister-in law could barely afford the money to fill up the bath for her son, while he was over in Oz living the life of riley!!! and not once sending her ANY money to help look after him.......my nephew is now 17 and has been in touch with his dad for about 5 years or so, via the internet. his dad came over in May for my nephews birthday, bringing his new family with him.......and do ya know what the tw"t had the audacity to do????????..........he handed my sister-in-law 50 quid, and when she asked him what that was for, he turned round and said..................' to go towards looking after our son' !!!!!!!!!!!!

how she never decked him , i don't know!!!!!!!!

so you see, women getting the rough end of the deal isn't all that unusual, it's just that we don't have a campaign group to highlight the problem.......

 

I guess that I am pointing out that its the state who screws up dads. Its one thing for a dad to **** off as you put it and leave the mum and child with next to nothing and then expect them to carry on as normal. Its not the same as the state taking monies leaving fathers penalised financially. With luck it takes dads between 3 and 5 years to get back to some sort of financial norm. For example back then, I had £150 a month out of a take home of £2000 (mortgage and maintenance were £1500 alone) to spend on luxuries each month for the first year. It is different now, I hasten to add!!

 

I have to say at this point, that most of my colleagues earn at least £50K a year.