Standard of refs

[The9]

Really? If he had done a decent job, we wouldn't have been the only team to get a booking and stoke could have possibly been down to ten men. Arnautovic should have been booked for handling Bertrands throwin in the first half and should also have got one for trying to start a fracas with three different players whilst Cedric was being treated.

 

Then there was Bojan punching Cedric as he made a fist and leading with it in the challenge that led to Cedrics head wound. Walters challenge which left Virgil pole axed. Charlie Adams cynical professional foul on Mane to stop our counter attack and Adam leading with the elbow every time he jumped for the ball and finally the challenge on Pelle where he ran up to Mason and told him that he had just been hit in the back of the head only for Mason to tell him to do one.

 

So to say he had little effect on the outcome could be true, but it is more telling that if he had done his job properly he would and should have been instrumental in the outcome.

 

Didn't see either of the Arnautovic incidents and didn't come away thinking any Stoke players should have had red cards. Didn't see Bojan "punch" Cedric, and didn't think any of the other things you mentioned were definitely yellow cards - and didn't notice Adam's elbows, or what Pelle was complaining about.

 

So basically, I was 50 yards further away and saw the same amount wrong as Mason did.

[Lets B Avenue]

So basically, I was 50 yards further away and saw the same amount wrong as Mason did.

 

Which really isn't anything to be proud of.

[benjii]

We have been given Madley for the Liverpool game.

 

Hope he feels he owes us one after the poor decisions at Chelsea.

 

I reckon he will shaft us, to be honest!

[The9]

Which really isn't anything to be proud of.

 

I honestly thought that aside from him being a bit reluctant to give decisions full stop, which obviously favoured Stoke as the more physical side, that the non-penalty on Pelle was the only thing that made the blindest difference. All the stuff the people around me were getting rabid about (Long falling over in the box for instance) weren't fouls, and he was no worse on fouls at corners than every other ref (which is to say we probably should have had 3 penalties at every one of our corners!).

[Lets B Avenue]

I honestly thought that aside from him being a bit reluctant to give decisions full stop, which obviously favoured Stoke as the more physical side, that the non-penalty on Pelle was the only thing that made the blindest difference. All the stuff the people around me were getting rabid about (Long falling over in the box for instance) weren't fouls, and he was no worse on fouls at corners than every other ref (which is to say we probably should have had 3 penalties at every one of our corners!).

 

What about that moment in the 2nd half when Wollscheid fouled Pelle just outside the box and while the ball went out to the right wing, he continued to hold him back, thus stopping him from getting a chance to be on the end of the cross.

 

If he was playing the advantage, rather than merely ignoring the foul, which he did for the rest of the game,why didn't he call play back and book him?

 

In a list of shyte refs he is in a medal position.

[Whitey Grandad]

What about that moment in the 2nd half when Wollscheid fouled Pelle just outside the box and while the ball went out to the right wing, he continued to hold him back, thus stopping him from getting a chance to be on the end of the cross.

 

If he was playing the advantage, rather than merely ignoring the foul, which he did for the rest of the game,why didn't he call play back and book him?

 

In a list of shyte refs he is in a medal position.

 

Why didn't we score from the cross? is the more important question.

 

If he was playing advantage he is supposed to indicate by using the proper gesture of both arms outstretched. He is also supposed to shout 'advantage' but few ever do.

[Whitey Grandad]

We have been given Madley for the Liverpool game.

 

Hope he feels he owes us one after the poor decisions at Chelsea.

 

Wasn't this the game we won 3-1?

[The9]

What about that moment in the 2nd half when Wollscheid fouled Pelle just outside the box and while the ball went out to the right wing, he continued to hold him back, thus stopping him from getting a chance to be on the end of the cross.

 

If he was playing the advantage, rather than merely ignoring the foul, which he did for the rest of the game,why didn't he call play back and book him?

 

In a list of shyte refs he is in a medal position.

 

Yeah, we might have got a free-kick from that, and maybe a yellow card. Still unlikely to have affected the result.

[Lets B Avenue]

Yeah, we might have got a free-kick from that, and maybe a yellow card. Still unlikely to have affected the result.

 

I'm merely pointing out your failures as a 50 yards away ref.

[The9]

I'm merely pointing out your failures as a 50 yards away ref.

 

I blame my viewing angle.

[stevegrant]

Why didn't we score from the cross? is the more important question.

Presumably because our centre forward was still being held back 25 yards from goal so couldn't get on the end of it.

[fanimal]

Who was the ref who gave Swansea that penalty v Bournemouth?? can we have him please, awful non penalty as bad as not giving ours, really gets me riled when the fourth official could have a quick word in the ear ggrrr

[stevegrant]

Who was the ref who gave Swansea that penalty v Bournemouth?? can we have him please, awful non penalty as bad as not giving ours, really gets me riled when the fourth official could have a quick word in the ear ggrrr

Andre Marriner

[Whitey Grandad]

Who was the ref who gave Swansea that penalty v Bournemouth?? can we have him please, awful non penalty as bad as not giving ours, really gets me riled when the fourth official could have a quick word in the ear ggrrr

 

Ayew was tripped. You may have missed it. Ok, he ran across the front of the defender but his heel was caught by the defender's leg. I don't know what you expect the fourth official to do, he's 50 yards away.

[The9]

Ayew was tripped. You may have missed it. Ok, he ran across the front of the defender but his heel was caught by the defender's leg. I don't know what you expect the fourth official to do, he's 50 yards away.

 

Hmm, he was only tripped by himself - his foot collided with Francis' shin as he was running, and he then caught his own foot and fell over. There was no movement by Francis to try and trip Ayew and I wouldn't have given it.

 

I wouldn't have given the one a few weeks back where whoever it was stopped running, balanced on one leg, refused to put their other foot down and fell flat on their face as a result whilst the defender gently bumped into them, either.

[torsaint]

Notice Mason has only reffed 5 times in Prem this season. Where has he been the rest of the time?

[SFKA South Woodford]

As others have said, Koeman is too nice. He needs to say more when a referee has given a bad performance and in this case I would make a stand and go so far as to ask the premier league not to allocate Mason to any more of our games. He should also mention the treatment that Graziano is getting from centre backs and subsequently referees.

 

It's got to the point where it's ridiculous, I have noticed recently that he either jumps and has a centre back jumping all over him or doesn't jump and gets a foul given against him for backing in when the defender jumps over him. He is also always penalised when tussling with the centre back on the run, when a lot of the time the centre back has a hand full of his shirt or is clinging on to his arm.

I'm not saying that every challenge on him is a foul, but referees see it that about only one in five of the challenges on him are, which is plainly wrong.

[Whitey Grandad]

Hmm, he was only tripped by himself - his foot collided with Francis' shin as he was running, and he then caught his own foot and fell over. There was no movement by Francis to try and trip Ayew and I wouldn't have given it.

 

I wouldn't have given the one a few weeks back where whoever it was stopped running, balanced on one leg, refused to put their other foot down and fell flat on their face as a result whilst the defender gently bumped into them, either.

 

This is where 'opinion' comes into it. Could Francis have avoided that contact, or even tried to avoid it? Ayew was running normally and was tripped by the contact with Francis's shin. Did Ayew slow down, check his run, cut across at the last minute? Not easy to see on TV.

[Whitey Grandad]

As others have said, Koeman is too nice. He needs to say more when a referee has given a bad performance and in this case I would make a stand and go so far as to ask the premier league not to allocate Mason to any more of our games. He should also mention the treatment that Graziano is getting from centre backs and subsequently referees.

 

It's got to the point where it's ridiculous, I have noticed recently that he either jumps and has a centre back jumping all over him or doesn't jump and gets a foul given against him for backing in when the defender jumps over him. He is also always penalised when tussling with the centre back on the run, when a lot of the time the centre back has a hand full of his shirt or is clinging on to his arm.

I'm not saying that every challenge on him is a foul, but referees see it that about only one in five of the challenges on him are, which is plainly wrong.

 

I've no way of knowing this, but just a guess... are you by any chance a Saints fan perhaps?

[corky morris]

Wasn't this the game we won 3-1?

 

Yes, how does that change his very poor display of refereeing?

[Goatboy]

Notice Mason has only reffed 5 times in Prem this season. Where has he been the rest of the time?

 

[Batman]

Obviously, that challenge on pelle in the 2nd half needed to happen to a top 4 player and let go by the ref to draw any form of worthy attention from the media

[Whitey Grandad]

Yes, how does that change his very poor display of refereeing?

 

I don't see why you should want him to 'owe us one'. He didn't give Costa a penalty.

[stevegrant]

I don't see why you should want him to 'owe us one'. He didn't give Costa a penalty.

He'd have done well to give Costa a penalty, considering he was suspended for our game there.

[eelpie]

I don't understand why referees allow blatant man-handling within good view of themselves and the crowd

[Whitey Grandad]

He'd have done well to give Costa a penalty, considering he was suspended for our game there.

 

? Wasn't this the game earlier this season that we won 3-1?

 

It would seem that I, at least, am talking at cross purposes.

[PhilippineSaint]

? Wasn't this the game earlier this season that we won 3-1?

 

It would seem that I, at least, am talking at cross purposes.

 

You would make a good Premier legue ref with that degree of error

[corky morris]

I don't see why you should want him to 'owe us one'. He didn't give Costa a penalty.

 

I didn't say he owed us one. I simply said that winning is no reason to accept poor refereeing.

However, what he does owe us is honesty & integrity. He put the whistle to his mouth when Mane was tripped & then put it back down. IMHO, he saw it was Mane & decided to ignore the challenge as he already had a predetermined view of him.

Of course I cant prove that. Of course he is never going to admit it, but referees have confirmed that they discuss certain players at meetings who dive.

[ErwinK1961]

I didn't say he owed us one. I simply said that winning is no reason to accept poor refereeing.

However, what he does owe us is honesty & integrity. He put the whistle to his mouth when Mane was tripped & then put it back down. IMHO, he saw it was Mane & decided to ignore the challenge as he already had a predetermined view of him.

Of course I cant prove that. Of course he is never going to admit it, but referees have confirmed that they discuss certain players at meetings who dive.

 

I remember listening to Mark Halsey on the radio once, basically said that he/other refs used to make decisions based on who player involved was

[Whitey Grandad]

I didn't say he owed us one. I simply said that winning is no reason to accept poor refereeing.

However, what he does owe us is honesty & integrity. He put the whistle to his mouth when Mane was tripped & then put it back down. IMHO, he saw it was Mane & decided to ignore the challenge as he already had a predetermined view of him.

Of course I cant prove that. Of course he is never going to admit it, but referees have confirmed that they discuss certain players at meetings who dive.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, it was Saint Charlie who used those words, but let's understand one thing. Lifting your whistle and then not using it means nothing. You might automatically raise it in anticipation of a foul that does not materialise and this can happen many times in a game. Mané was touched and then flung himself to the ground but I don't believe that he was tripped. Some referees might have given a penalty but that doesn't make those who don't wrong or incompetent.

 

Its definitely true that a player's reputation goes before him and it's been like that for as long as I have been following the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

You would make a good Premier legue ref with that degree of error

 

thanks

 

Yes, it was Falcao but if I had said 'the dirty cheating diving Chelsea player' there might have been too much ambiguity. The point I was trying to make was that we won the match 3-1 and penalty appeals by both sides were turned down by the referee. I don't think he treated us badly.

[SFKA South Woodford]

thanks

 

Yes, it was Falcao but if I had said 'the dirty cheating diving Chelsea player' there might have been too much ambiguity. The point I was trying to make was that we won the match 3-1 and penalty appeals by both sides were turned down by the referee. I don't think he treated us badly.

 

Mistakes being made by a referee are just as unacceptable as mistakes made by other people in other professions.

 

You seem to laugh them off and seem to be saying 'Well it's the way things are, it will never change!' That is not acceptable to some of us, some of us are getting tired of seeing abysmal refereeing performances every week.

 

I can't think of one match at St Mary's this season where the referee has had a good game. It would be nice to come away from a game thinking the ref had done well for a change and that Mane, Cedric & Pelle had gotten fair treatment from the officials for once.

[Whitey Grandad]

Mistakes being made by a referee are just as unacceptable as mistakes made by other people in other professions.

 

You seem to laugh them off and seem to be saying 'Well it's the way things are, it will never change!' That is not acceptable to some of us, some of us are getting tired of seeing abysmal refereeing performances every week.

 

I can't think of one match at St Mary's this season where the referee has had a good game. It would be nice to come away from a game thinking the ref had done well for a change and that Mane, Cedric & Pelle had gotten fair treatment from the officials for once.

 

They are not mistakes, apart from some very, very few exceptions. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong. What from last Saturday would you call a mistake?

[ErwinK1961]

They are not mistakes, apart from some very, very few exceptions. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong. What from last Saturday would you call a mistake?

 

Not giving us a stonewall penalty.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not giving us a stonewall penalty.

 

That wasn't stonewall, nowhere hear it. Where do you get such ideas?

[ErwinK1961]

That wasn't stonewall, nowhere hear it. Where do you get such ideas?

 

From the fact Pelle was fouled, in the box, directly in front of the referee. Not giving the penalty was a mistake.

 

I know you're heading up the 'back the ref' campaign on here, and of course it's a difficult job, but it is ok sometimes to admit that a ref has made an error.

[VectisSaint]

They are not mistakes, apart from some very, very few exceptions. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong. What from last Saturday would you call a mistake?

 

Not booking Bertrand for his professional foul which prevented Stoke counter attack.

Amongst other mistakes. Refs have a difficult job, but they still make bad mistakes.

[Whitey Grandad]

From the fact Pelle was fouled, in the box, directly in front of the referee. Not giving the penalty was a mistake.

 

I know you're heading up the 'back the ref' campaign on here, and of course it's a difficult job, but it is ok sometimes to admit that a ref has made an error.

 

He wasn't fouled. I accept that you have a different opinion but you have to accept that you are not unbiased.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not booking Bertrand for his professional foul which prevented Stoke counter attack.

Amongst other mistakes. Refs have a difficult job, but they still make bad mistakes.

 

You might think that was a mistake, others might think differently. All that you can ask is for some degree of consistency within each individual game.

[VectisSaint]

You might think that was a mistake, others might think differently. All that you can ask is for some degree of consistency within each individual game.

Well, I can agree with that Mason was consistent. Consistent at making bad mistakes. For both teams.

However, its a distraction, we played badly and to try to put the blame on a terrible referee is to paper over the cracks that we were shocking and deserved what we got.

[ErwinK1961]

He wasn't fouled. I accept that you have a different opinion but you have to accept that you are not unbiased.

 

Ok.

[Batman]

He wasn't fouled. I accept that you have a different opinion but you have to accept that you are not unbiased.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

Well, I can agree with that Mason was consistent. Consistent at making bad mistakes. For both teams.

However, its a distraction, we played badly and to try to put the blame on a terrible referee is to paper over the cracks that we were shocking and deserved what we got.

 

This is the most important point to take from the game. I have not seen any reference in the independent match reports that criticise the referee. To have a go at him every time we play badly or lose a game is getting a bit repetitive and you won't get much sympathy for that point of view from those who hold no affiliation to Southampon FC. We should always remember that the referee is not on our side and nor should he be.

[Whitey Grandad]

 

[SFKA South Woodford]

This is the most important point to take from the game. I have not seen any reference in the independent match reports that criticise the referee. To have a go at him every time we play badly or lose a game is getting a bit repetitive and you won't get much sympathy for that point of view from those who hold no affiliation to Southampon FC. We should always remember that the referee is not on our side and nor should he be.

 

No one is saying that they want the referee to be biased in our favour, we just want a level playing field for our players. Something which you aren't going to get from Mason when you are playing against Stoke as proved by the research of the Arsenal fans. It may not prove that he is deliberately biased towards stoke but does show that he is biased towards their style of play. Which is not fair on the team's who do not play that way.

 

In response to your question of what he got wrong, aside from the penalty which even the former head of the referees panel said was a stone wall pen, there was Adams professional foul and the two incidents with Arnautovic I previously mentioned.

 

Whilst I agree the team's performance was poor I disagree that Stoke were much better than us and that they deserved to win, at times they were equally as bad as us and had we got those decisions who knows how either team would have reacted.

 

I think that Bournemouth should have had a penalty the other week, so know it isn't just Mason giving poor decisions, and a couple have gone our way but then we have also had two goals scored against us where players were in offside positions and several other instances where we should have gotten a penalty or have had players ruled offside when they are clearly not and numerous instances of fouls on Pelle and Mane going unpunished. Surely it is also unheard of for a player to get a head wound five times in a season and an opposition player not to have been adjudged responsible for at least one of them? I've witnessed the majority of them close up and know that at least two of them should have been punished by the ref. Referees are making mistakes and the standard of their performances is dropping. It looks like it's time to introduce video refs, to alleviate the pressure on the referee and ensure that the big incidents are called correctly.

[Whitey Grandad]

No one is saying that they want the referee to be biased in our favour, we just want a level playing field for our players. Something which you aren't going to get from Mason when you are playing against Stoke as proved by the research of the Arsenal fans. It may not prove that he is deliberately biased towards stoke but does show that he is biased towards their style of play. Which is not fair on the team's who do not play that way.

 

In response to your question of what he got wrong, aside from the penalty which even the former head of the referees panel said was a stone wall pen, there was Adams professional foul and the two incidents with Arnautovic I previously mentioned.

 

Whilst I agree the team's performance was poor I disagree that Stoke were much better than us and that they deserved to win, at times they were equally as bad as us and had we got those decisions who knows how either team would have reacted.

 

I think that Bournemouth should have had a penalty the other week, so know it isn't just Mason giving poor decisions, and a couple have gone our way but then we have also had two goals scored against us where players were in offside positions and several other instances where we should have gotten a penalty or have had players ruled offside when they are clearly not and numerous instances of fouls on Pelle and Mane going unpunished. Surely it is also unheard of for a player to get a head wound five times in a season and an opposition player not to have been adjudged responsible for at least one of them? I've witnessed the majority of them close up and know that at least two of them should have been punished by the ref. Referees are making mistakes and the standard of their performances is dropping. It looks like it's time to introduce video refs, to alleviate the pressure on the referee and ensure that the big incidents are called correctly.

 

There are a lot of points there and I will only answer a couple of them.

 

Cedric has received a lot of head injuries and I would put that down to his stature and technique. When he jumps his head often ends up at arm and elbow level so he is likely to get caught. You cannot blame the referees if you see his situation as unique, you have to look at the player.

 

Most of the other points are just your opinion, which happens to be different from the referee who happened to be in charge. There are situations where if you had 100 referees in charge half would give a foul and half wouldn't that doesn't make half of them wrong, or are they only 'wrong' if there opinion differs from yours.

 

Pellè's mid-air collision was nowhere near a stonewall penalty and one other person saying he thought it was doesn't make it so. Was Pellè backing towards goal at the time? Where were the defender's eyes looking at the time? None of this can be determined on the TV but will have influenced Mason's decision. Of course I would have been delighted if he had given us a penalty but it was no surprise that he didn't and nor would plenty of others. Remember that all of your opinions are coloured by your allegiance.

 

Video referees would not stop love anything, you're just asking for another opinion which you hope would go in your favour. You can't decide matters like this by committee. As someone once told me, it's best to have an odd number of members for a committee and three's too many.

Edited 26 November, 2015 by Whitey Grandad

[The9]

This is where 'opinion' comes into it. Could Francis have avoided that contact, or even tried to avoid it? Ayew was running normally and was tripped by the contact with Francis's shin. Did Ayew slow down, check his run, cut across at the last minute? Not easy to see on TV.

 

He doesn't have to try and avoid it, Ayew ran across him and fell over. Not all contact is a trip or a foul, that definitely wasn't. It's ridiculous that accidental contact with someone falling over is a penalty when stuff like Butland's wild hack under a leaping Remy who stayed on his feet isn't given. Absolutely awful refereeing on both counts.

[The9]

? Wasn't this the game earlier this season that we won 3-1?

 

It would seem that I, at least, am talking at cross purposes.

 

It was Falcao in that incident, Costa wasn't playing.

 

*I've just noticed you've sorted that above.

Edited 26 November, 2015 by The9

[The9]

thanks

 

Yes, it was Falcao but if I had said 'the dirty cheating diving Chelsea player' there might have been too much ambiguity. The point I was trying to make was that we won the match 3-1 and penalty appeals by both sides were turned down by the referee. I don't think he treated us badly.

 

Chelsea had one where their player dived and Stekelenburg didn't touch him, whilst we had one absolutely bolted on where Van Dijk's shirt was halfway up his back and another shout for tripping Mane for which he was booked for diving. There were also numerous 50/50s in midfield where Chelsea got almost all the decisions and favourable non-cardings in the first half. Second half he was much more even.

[Lets B Avenue]

Pellè's mid-air collision was nowhere near a stonewall penalty and one other person saying he thought it was doesn't make it so.

 

Whereas, you appear to be the only person saying it wasn't.

 

Is it your aim to become the "Sarnia" or "Saint George" of refereeing decisions?