Batman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 It's harsh what has happened to them. But I kind of don't feel 100% sympathetic as they live in a notorious area for flooding Also, when are we due to get international aid for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 When I lived in Somerset in the late 90s / early 00s, I spent many happy days cycling around the Levels – if you’re a lazy b astard like me it’s a great place for cycling because there are no hills! It’s also one of the best places in the country for bird-watching. In fact, it’s a really understated part of the country that most people only catch a glimpse of when they’re speeding down the M5 on their way to Devon or Cornwall. You’re right about the flooding: it’s all reclaimed land and much of it is below sea level. Every year it floods to a certain extent; indeed, some amount of flooding is encouraged in order to lay down silt to enhance the fertility of the pasture land. However, up until very recently, people were able to control the extent of this flooding by means of ‘lock-gates’ etc on the rhynes (ditches) and rivers. When I lived there, these rhynes and rivers were regularly maintained and plant growth etc was removed. The fact that this maintenance has to a large extent been discontinued was just asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Heard some whinging crud on the radio today replying to the fact that the army were assisting. He replied "Whats the point, it's too little too late". Tell you what mate, fill yer own ferkin sandbags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 You’re right about the flooding: it’s all reclaimed land and much of it is below sea level. Every year it floods to a certain extent; indeed, some amount of flooding is encouraged in order to lay down silt to enhance the fertility of the pasture land. However, up until very recently, people were able to control the extent of this flooding by means of ‘lock-gates’ etc on the rhynes (ditches) and rivers. When I lived there, these rhynes and rivers were regularly maintained and plant growth etc was removed. The fact that this maintenance has to a large extent been discontinued was just asking for trouble. As you said its mostly below sea level and left to its own devices would revert to wetland ala the Norfolk broads and be a major tourist attraction. We dont have enough 'wild' space in the UK and it should be allowed to flood imo. Dredging rivers and turning them into lifeless drainage ditches isnt the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 As you said its mostly below sea level and left to its own devices would revert to wetland ala the Norfolk broads and be a major tourist attraction. We dont have enough 'wild' space in the UK and it should be allowed to flood imo. Dredging rivers and turning them into lifeless drainage ditches isnt the answer. and what about the people that have lived there for generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 and what about the people that have lived there for generations You're the one that thinks tackling climate change is a waste of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 You're the one that thinks tackling climate change is a waste of time and money. Not sure that you understood my question. How are my thoughts on climate change relevant and as it happens I am actually a great advocate of green energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Somerset's name means Summer land - because it was too flooded to use during the winter. Even dredging the rivers wont make any difference because so much of the affected area is below sea level. The only reliable solution would be to use massive electric pumps to keep what is relatively poor agricultural land free from flooding. Why would it make more sense to spend multi millions trying to keep a relatively small area of farmland free from flooding when you could make it into a national park? Most of the houses and settlements are not actually flooded, but cut off (as people years ago had the sense to build on slightly higher ground). They could be cheaply protected by digging ditches around them with emergency only pumps and perhaps building up the height of the roads by a foot or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Somerset's name means Summer land - because it was too flooded to use during the winter. Even dredging the rivers wont make any difference because so much of the affected area is below sea level. The only reliable solution would be to use massive electric pumps to keep what is relatively poor agricultural land free from flooding. Why would it make more sense to spend multi millions trying to keep a relatively small area of farmland free from flooding when you could make it into a national park? Most of the houses and settlements are not actually flooded, but cut off (as people years ago had the sense to build on slightly higher ground). They could be cheaply protected by digging ditches around them with emergency only pumps and perhaps building up the height of the roads by a foot or so. but this is how it has been done for years. The problems only arose when the Environment Agency got involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 but this is how it has been done for years. The problems only arose when the Environment Agency got involved. The area has flooded regularly for thousands of years -it used to be tidal salt marsh. Despite what you see on the news only about 60 properties have flooded. tens of millions spent on sea defences, dredging and pumping to save 60 properties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 The area has flooded regularly for thousands of years -it used to be tidal salt marsh. Despite what you see on the news only about 60 properties have flooded. tens of millions spent on sea defences, dredging and pumping to save 60 properties? I think you are playing with numbers here, there are 20,000 acres of farmland under water and countless communities cut off. This is effecting the lives of thousands of people whom I have great empathy with. The environment agency were of course able to spend £31m on a bird sanctuary but not on safeguarding the livelihoods of thousands of good ordinary people like you and I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I think you are playing with numbers here, there are 20,000 acres of farmland under water and countless communities cut off. 20,000 acres isnt very much - the size of an average farm estate in Scotland. An area of farmland about five miles by six has been flooded. The bit about thousands of people in countless communities - well thats just Daily Mail drama which doesn't accord with any facts. http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/news/151697.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 20,000 acres isnt very much - the size of an average farm estate in Scotland. An area of farmland about five miles by six has been flooded. The bit about thousands of people in countless communities - well thats just Daily Mail drama which doesn't accord with any facts. http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/news/151697.aspx You cannot compare 20,000 acres of hill in Scotland to 20,000acres of flat land in Somerset. You seem to have posted a piece of Environmental Agency propaganda written to defend their short comings and the fact that their policy put birds ahead of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I think you are playing with numbers here, there are 20,000 acres of farmland under water and countless communities cut off. This is effecting the lives of thousands of people whom I have great empathy with. The environment agency were of course able to spend £31m on a bird sanctuary but not on safeguarding the livelihoods of thousands of good ordinary people like you and I. No doubt using money from taxes paid by the people who have been flooded out. The environment agency have stuffed up big time but to me appear like a lot of civil servants who make stupid decisions refuse to accept that they are in anyway to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 The area has flooded regularly for thousands of years -it used to be tidal salt marsh. Despite what you see on the news only about 60 properties have flooded. tens of millions spent on sea defences, dredging and pumping to save 60 properties? Tim, allowing the Somerset Levels to revert back to the state it was in before the medieval monks started the reclamation process would effect more than a few farmers and isolated settlements – the town of Glastonbury (pop.9,000) would revert back to being an island for starters! Also, the Levels has not been a salt marsh for several centuries – these days it is one of our country’s most important freshwater wetland and reed-bed habitats, and is a vital breeding area for wildlife associated with this type of habitat, i.e. bitterns, marsh harriers, water voles and otters. The area already has many large freshwater nature reserves. In my opinion, this is just the type of area we should be striving to protect. We’ve managed to look after it for several centuries without, as far as I’m aware, too much effort or expenditure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) Tim, allowing the Somerset Levels to revert back to the state it was in before the medieval monks started the reclamation process would effect more than a few farmers and isolated settlements – the town of Glastonbury (pop.9,000) would revert back to being an island for starters! Also, the Levels has not been a salt marsh for several centuries – these days it is one of our country’s most important freshwater wetland and reed-bed habitats, and is a vital breeding area for wildlife associated with this type of habitat, i.e. bitterns, marsh harriers, water voles and otters. The area already has many large freshwater nature reserves. In my opinion, this is just the type of area we should be striving to protect. We’ve managed to look after it for several centuries without, as far as I’m aware, too much effort or expenditure. No Im not advocating returning it to salt marsh at all - quite the reverse, although I do think the Environment Agencies plan to do away with some of the hard sea defences is a very good idea. Im against the highly engineered flood management style on the levels - reliant on artificial watercourses and pumping stations. The wildlife rich areas you refer to are those protected by the EAs actions they don't exist in spite of them. What I'd really like to see is the Somerset equivalent of the Great Fen project in Cambridgeshire. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/introduction. The areas are very similar terrain and fenland provides far better flood protection than pumping - though its hard to explain that to the average Joe as its counter-intutive - so you get a lot of ill informed reaction. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/future/flood-protection Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 No Im not advocating returning it to salt marsh at all - quite the reverse, although I do think the Environment Agencies plan to do away with the hard sea defences is a very good idea. Im against the highly engineered flood management style on the levels - reliant on artificial watercourses and pumping stations. The wildlife rich areas you refer to are those protected by the EAs actions they don't exist in spite of them. What I'd really like to see is the Somerset equivalent of the Great Fen project in Cambridgeshire. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/introduction. The areas are very similar terrain and fenland provides far better flood protection than pumping - though its hard to explain that to the average Joe as its counter-intutive - so you get a lot of ill informed reaction. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/future/flood-protection No offence Buctotim but this is the problem in my opinion; these decisions should be up to the people that live there not faceless bureaucrats who have no understanding of the area and its culture and history etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Don't give a sh!te about them. If you buy a house in a flood plain because of it's nice river views you shouldn't be surprised when you get flooded. Thousands die and are made homeless by real flooding in the 3rd world, a few ruined carpets and the inconvenience of having to go to Tescos by boat because you choose a rural riverside lifestyle is not an emergency. Just deal with it and shut the f*ck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 No offence Buctotim but this is the problem in my opinion; these decisions should be up to the people that live there not faceless bureaucrats who have no understanding of the area and its culture and history etc Forgive me but you tend to write in Daily Mail cliches. In any event the population of most rural areas has changed dramatically since the advent of mass car ownership. Townies pushed up the price of rural housing so now accountants live in the countryside and farm workers live in towns. The culture and history was trashed 40 years ago, and I speak as someone New Forest born whose family was priced out into Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Don't give a sh!te about them. If you buy a house in a flood plain because of it's nice river views you shouldn't be surprised when you get flooded. Thousands die and are made homeless by real flooding in the 3rd world, a few ruined carpets and the inconvenience of having to go to Tescos by boat because you choose a rural riverside lifestyle is not an emergency. Just deal with it and shut the f*ck up. Many of the flood victims on the Levels are not people that have bought properties for their river views – they are small-scale farmers living and working on properties handed down by previous generations of their families, and these properties have never previously flooded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) It might have something to do with the wettest January on record following on from the wettest December on record. ( For the South-West of England ). Edited 30 January, 2014 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Forgive me but you tend to write in Daily Mail cliches. In any event the population of most rural areas has changed dramatically since the advent of mass car ownership. Townies pushed up the price of rural housing so now accountants live in the countryside and farm workers live in towns. The culture and history was trashed 40 years ago, and I speak as someone New Forest born whose family was priced out into Southampton. You tend to talk like a Stalinist knowing what is best for everybody with no compassion. You clearly do not know the West Country or where farm workers live. The further you move out of commutable distant to London the more functioning the local agricultural communities are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) You tend to talk like a Stalinist knowing what is best for everybody with no compassion. You clearly do not know the West Country or where farm workers live. The further you move out of commutable distant to London the more functioning the local agricultural communities live. Thats more boll ocks Im afraid, although not uncharateristically so . http://www.wensumalliance.org.uk/publications/Taylor_Review_Livingworkingcountryside.pdf no doubt you live in a middle class household in a rural area your family have no connection to, but happily spout off about local history and culture. Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Shame the water boards don't symphonic it off the some reservoir some where . Wait till the summer when all the moaners have ago about the drought and hose pipe bans . It's because we is British Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 It might have something to do with the wettest January on record following on from the wettest December on record. ( For the South-West of England ). No no you don't understand. Its the government responsibility to keep the townies dry in their country cottages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Thats more boll ocks Im afraid, although not uncharateristically so . http://www.wensumalliance.org.uk/publications/Taylor_Review_Livingworkingcountryside.pdf no doubt you live in a middle class household in a rural area your family have no connection to, but happily spout off about local history and culture. My family are actually all farmers and although I do have a drinks consultancy I also farm sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 No Im not advocating returning it to salt marsh at all - quite the reverse, although I do think the Environment Agencies plan to do away with some of the hard sea defences is a very good idea. Im against the highly engineered flood management style on the levels - reliant on artificial watercourses and pumping stations. The wildlife rich areas you refer to are those protected by the EAs actions they don't exist in spite of them. What I'd really like to see is the Somerset equivalent of the Great Fen project in Cambridgeshire. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/introduction. The areas are very similar terrain and fenland provides far better flood protection than pumping - though its hard to explain that to the average Joe as its counter-intutive - so you get a lot of ill informed reaction. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/about/future/flood-protection The fenland described in those links is quite different from the Somerset Levels, both in scale (3,700 hectares as opposed to 650 square kilometres) and in soil type (alkali as opposed to acidic), so a comparison on the relevant impact to residents and on associated flora and fauna is not valid, in my opinion. The Somerset Levels are already serving as a huge drainage sink to the surrounding areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) My family are actually all farmers and although I do have a drinks consultancy I also farm sheep. Great, you're a hobby farmer, even better. The biggest curse on rural areas of the 21st century. I know somebody who runs a city merchant bank for £2m pa who spends his weekend at a farmers market selling his pots of cream for £1.50. He'd be better off buying them from his neighbour and giving them away free. Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) The fenland described in those links is quite different from the Somerset Levels, both in scale (3,700 hectares as opposed to 650 square kilometres) and in soil type (alkali as opposed to acidic), so a comparison on the relevant impact to residents and on associated flora and fauna is not valid, in my opinion. The Somerset Levels are already serving as a huge drainage sink to the surrounding areas. The two areas are directly comparable - naturally occurring wetlands with similar elevations above sea level, man made waterways and peat pits. both areas are neutral or alkaline, not acidic. Obviously Im not advocating the whole area be flooded, something comparable in scale to the Great Fen would add to range of jobs, habitats and biodiversity. In the 2008 article below the increasing rate of flooding was already acknowledged. Re your assertion they currently act as a drainage sink - thats the whole point, they dont - they rely on pumped drainage. When it rains heavily the pumps cant cope and there isnt enough wetland to take up the excess water so farmland floods. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/uk/739372/Willow-harvest-on-the-Somerset-Levels.html http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/26/somerset-climate-change-uk Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) Great, you're a hobby farmer, even better. The biggest curse on rural areas of the 21st century. I know somebody who runs a city merchant bank who spends his weekend at a farmers market selling his pots of cream for £1.50. He'd be better off buying them from his neighbour and giving them away free. I wish I knew as much as you think you know Tim. My wife farms full time does that count? I have sheep because it is in my blood and I can. That is why I have a lot of sympathy for those farmers flooded out in Somerset. Is this going to end up like the thread where you spent three days arguing that Heineken was not imported or the one where you insisted that pheasant's arrived on shoots in the back of a lorry! Edited 30 January, 2014 by Sergei Gotsmanov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 I wish I knew as much as you think you know Tim. My wife farms full time does that count? I have sheep because it is in my blood and I can. That is why I have a lot of sympathy for those farmers flooded out in Somerset. Is this going to end up like the thread where you spent three days arguing that Heineken was not imported or the one where you insisted that pheasant's arrived on shoots in the back of a lorry! No its one of those arguments where things don't happen f you haven't seen it. You claimed all Heineken came from Amsterdam which is clearly false as Heineken acknowledge on their website. As for shoots where fat barely able to fly reared birds are shooed out of trucks into a field or woodlands an hour or two before a coach load of untrained guns arrives - Ive seen it first hand - so don't bother to patronise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 The two areas are directly comparable - naturally occurring wetlands with similar elevations above sea level, man made waterways and peat pits. both areas are neutral or alkaline, not acidic. Obviously Im not advocating the whole area be flooded, something comparable in scale to the Great Fen would add to range of jobs, habitats and biodiversity. In the 2008 article below the increasing rate of flooding was already acknowledged. Re your assertion they currently act as a drainage sink - thats the whole point, they dont - they rely on pumped drainage. When it rains heavily the pumps cant cope and there isnt enough wetland to take up the excess water so farmland floods. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/uk/739372/Willow-harvest-on-the-Somerset-Levels.html http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/26/somerset-climate-change-uk The Somerset Levels are acidic , circumneutral, as referenced on sheet 4 of the defra link below http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/pdf/RIS/UK11064.pdf Tim, you talk about flooding an area the size of the Great Fen and removing some sea defences around the Levels, but what will prevent the water from reaching, say, the environs of Glastonbury, which are below sea level and about 12 miles from the sea? The Levels have been acting fine as a drainage sink up until the last couple of winters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 A point about the Environment Agency. They are often blamed in situations like this, usually by those completely ignorant to the amount of work they do actually do, not to mention their involvement in other areas. For example, the planning applications they comment on, time and again, to recommend developments don't take place in flood plains or river valleys for exactly these reasons... and their recommendations are often ignored by council planning committees because supposedly the need for jobs and economic development is placed as a higher priority by so many local authorities. Meanwhile, their budgets are being slashed by central government disproportionately to other departments, despite pledges that they would be the 'greenest government ever' (ha), because of austerity and because we apparently need to focus what funds we do have reigniting economic growth... well, a fat lot of good those rural business grants will do to businesses who are flooded because the EA budget has been slashed and everyone ignores their advice when it doesn't suit them. Like or not, the environment will continue to change and need managing, no matter what the economic situation. And the EA needs funding as a result... it is vastly underrated as a government agency, and of course that is only noticed when stuff like this happens, by which point it's too late. And just to qualify all that, my wife used to work for the EA and knows many people still in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) The Somerset Levels are acidic , circumneutral, as referenced on sheet 4 of the defra link below Circum-neutral means around neutral in the range 6.5-7.5 (neutral ph7) - so very slightly acidic or so very slightly alkaline as to be neutral for the purposes of biodoversity. See section 4.4.1 http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/B823176.pdf http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/pdf/RIS/UK11064.pdf Tim, you talk about flooding an area the size of the Great Fen and removing some sea defences around the Levels, but what will prevent the water from reaching, say, the environs of Glastonbury, which are below sea level and about 12 miles from the sea? It depends on local terrain, the Steart peninsula involves breaching the seawall and creating a limited area of both salt marsh and freshwater, with no implication for inland tidal deluging. Its a scheme which could be applied more widely. http://steart.wwt.org.uk/ The Levels have been acting fine as a drainage sink up until the last couple of winters Well there have been numerous floods over the past 40 years albeit not as extensive, it isnt just 2012 and 2014. Whilst they may be adequate in normal years the capacity appears to be insufficient for freak years. ... Edited 31 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) No its one of those arguments where things don't happen f you haven't seen it. You claimed all Heineken came from Amsterdam which is clearly false as Heineken acknowledge on their website. As for shoots where fat barely able to fly reared birds are shooed out of trucks into a field or woodlands an hour or two before a coach load of untrained guns arrives - Ive seen it first hand - so don't bother to patronise. So Wetherspoons are lying are they Tim? http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/drink/beers-and-ciders and Sainsburys http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1391122345307 Out of interest Tim what time of year did you see your imaginary pheasant shoot? Edited 30 January, 2014 by Sergei Gotsmanov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 This sounds weird, but trust me, it's apparently true (and considering my grandfather's family all live in the Somerset / Dorset area, I'm inclined to believe it) but historically, my family name....i.e. Hockey, comes from the Somerset Levels (hoccsleigh being the old version) and translated it means "Mallow island dweller" (on the old in-land sea that the levels actually are) so if you consider that it was an inland ocean with islands that my forbearers lived on and indeed that it's below sea level is it any surprise?....it's kinda in my name and if you don't expect this kinda thing living around what was a large body of water...well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) So Wetherspoons are lying are they Tim? http://www.jdwetherspoon.co.uk/home/drink/beers-and-ciders and Sainsburys http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1391122345307 Out of interest Tim what time of year did you see your imaginary pheasant shoot? My, you really are mightily slow. Sainsburys and Wetherspoons buying Heineken brewed in the Netherlands is not the same as stating all Heineken is brewed in the Netherlands.Its not a difficult concept, Im surprised you struggle with it. Why dont you contact this woman, a former conservative party candidate? She first witnessed it and it was concerned about the impact on the image of shooting. It was her who asked me to do as site visit and raise it with David Miliband when he was environment minister. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Lampard] I used to have two people on ignore for being supercilious yet spectacularly wrong twonks. I need to apologise to Alpine because all things are relative. Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Still Buctotim you contest that if you go into any pub and buy Heineken then it is imported. That is why it is more expensive! Like Wetherspoons would pay a premium to buy imported Heineken to charge a lower price than anyone else. Tim at what point do you ever admit to being wrong? I asked you Tim. You must know when this incident occurred when did you visit? Anyone Tim this thread should be about sticking up for people who are flooded out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 (edited) Still Buctotim you contest that if you go into any pub and buy Heineken then it is imported. That is why it is more expensive! Like Wetherspoons would pay a premium to buy imported Heineken to charge a lower price than anyone else. Tim at what point do you ever admit to being wrong? I asked you Tim. You must know when this incident occurred when did you visit? Anyone Tim this thread should be about sticking up for people who are flooded out. Now your coherence has gone as well. 1. Google to find out where Heineken is brewed. I know of at least three locations outside the Netherlands. Im not going to play ping pong off topic posts with you whilst you raise irrelevancies. 2. It was in 2006 or 2007 and I've no idea what the date was - although clearly during the season, probably November. Ive given you checkable references but you choose not to follow them up so you can continue to make empty points. Frankly you are a little odd. Goodbye Edited 30 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 30 January, 2014 Share Posted 30 January, 2014 Now your coherence has gone as well. 1. Google to find out where Heineken is brewed. I know of at least three locations outside the Netherlands. Im not going to play ping pong off topic posts with you whilst you raise irrelevancies. 2. It was in 2006 or 2007 and I've no idea what the date was - although clearly during the season, probably November. Ive given you checkable references but you choose not to follow them up so you can continue to make empty points. Frankly you are a little odd. Goodbye Odd says the fella with 11000+ posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 1. Google to find out where Heineken is brewed. I know of at least three locations outside the Netherlands. heres one : http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084783453659.html?from=storyrhs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 heres one : http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084783453659.html?from=storyrhs Heineken is brewed under licence all over the world - the dispute we had was whether the pint him and his mate had was brewed in the UK and it wasn't it was imported from Holland. Can we go back to the floods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 (edited) heres one : http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084783453659.html?from=storyrhs ... Edited 31 January, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 Yep. He wants us to believe that over 90% of Heinekens sales are not Heineken. http://www.heineken.co.uk/our-company Back again Tim. I don't really care whether you believe it or not but I merely pointed out that you and your mate were moaning that the pint of Heineken that you drank tasted awful because it was brewed in the UK and I told you that all draught Heineken over here is imported from Holland. Not used to being wrong you spent a number of days trying to prove me wrong. Look at the Wetherspoons link or go to any bar serving Heineken and you will see that on the font it says Imported Premium Lager. If you really knew what you were talking about you would understand that Heineken in volume terms is a small part of the company's UK portfolio and makes up well under 10% of their overall sales. Fosters alone outsells it by more than 10 to 1. Is it not getting a little tedious now. Can we go back to discussing the floods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 (edited) Who gives a shiny sheite where Heineken is brewed, id rather drink a pint of flood water than that crap. I find the lack of understanding and compassion towards people who are suffering in the floods disgraceful . There was even a labour mp who shouted out "teach them to swim" during questions in the house. What a difference there would be if labour supporting cities were flooded and their voters had to swim down the dole office and to buy their booze and fags, all the lefties would be overdosing on compassion. Edited 31 January, 2014 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 Who gives a shiny sheite where Heineken is brewed, id rather drink a pint of flood water than that crap. I find the lack of understanding and compassion towards people who are suffering in the floods disgraceful . There was even a labour mp who shouted out "teach them to swim" during questions in the house. What a difference there would be if labour supporting cities were flooded and their voters had to swim down the dole office and to buy their booze and fags, all the lefties would be overdosing on compassion. Spot on, Lord D! Excuse the pun, but contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, this really isn’t a land awash with Champaign Charlies enjoying the views from their soggy riverside mansions. The vast majority of the Somerset Level’s 120,000 residents are decent, hardworking people who send their kids to the local state schools, and whose idea of a good night out – when they can afford it – is a couple of pints and a game of skittles down their local. I know this because I lived amongst these people for eight years. Yes, there have been bad floods before, but most of those were caused by the sea breaching the sea defences, and few of them have been anywhere near as extensive as those we are witnessing today. I remember when the EA took over control of the drainage from the local drainage authorities and took the decision to stop the regular dredging of the rivers, an old farmer saying to me that they were storing up problems for the future, and that it would only take one wet winter to entirely swamp the place. It appears he was right. I think the decision to stop the dredging has saved the taxpayer about £4 million annually – probably a lot less than it will now cost to sort out this sodden mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martel Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 but this is how it has been done for years. The problems only arose when the Environment Agency got involved. Exactly, everything works fine until you bring in a government agency or ministry, government is simply a mobile cluster fxxxk, a disaster waiting to happen, none of them are either qualified or smart enough to be in the positions they are in, hate all the money grabbing egotistical S.O.B.'s. Ahhhhh, that feels better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 Nice to see so many people ignoring my post about the EA whilst looking to slag them off... I'm not saying they're perfect, but unless you actually work there or work closely with them, I think it's a bit unfair for some people to make such judgements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 Exactly, everything works fine until you bring in a government agency or ministry, government is simply a mobile cluster fxxxk, a disaster waiting to happen, none of them are either qualified or smart enough to be in the positions they are in, hate all the money grabbing egotistical S.O.B.'s. Ahhhhh, that feels better. So you're saying my wife was a money-grabbing egotistical S.O.B.? No, I know you're not... but have a think about what you're saying. The EA is full of excellent people, fully qualified and very much smart enough... the problems come higher up when decisions have to be made between budget considerations and the recommendations of those qualified and smart people who work on the ground. Some people and parts of the EA deserve criticism, it is far from perfect, but it does not deserve many of the comments it receives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted 31 January, 2014 Share Posted 31 January, 2014 Exactly, everything works fine until you bring in a government agency or ministry, government is simply a mobile cluster fxxxk, a disaster waiting to happen, none of them are either qualified or smart enough to be in the positions they are in, hate all the money grabbing egotistical S.O.B.'s. Ahhhhh, that feels better. What a thoroughly disgusting post; there are far more egotistical, money grabbing people in private industry than in public service. If you want to find a dishonest conmen who’s only interest is to rip people off then private enterprise and the entrepreneurs (don’t they just love these title) is the starting place. I speak having just completed 20 years public service and 20 years in the private sector, in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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