Batman Posted 24 June, 2014 Share Posted 24 June, 2014 Im hearing this a bit. some say we are light years ahead of 2010... but are we really....we have been pretty woeful this tournament...apart from half a game against italy. but look how bad they actually are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 24 June, 2014 Share Posted 24 June, 2014 As the one who actually said that in the match day thread. Yes, I believe so. Firstly, we are actually looking like a team now, we have been able to pass the ball and create chances. Secondly, The team is now shedding the vestiges of the alleged 'Golden Generation' and has younger talent coming in to provide a platform for the future, rather then a reliance on the same old/same old. Thirdly, The stability in management has seen us progress from a highly defensive pragmatic outfit in 2012 to one that does look to have some kind of attacking plan. Had our strikers actually remembered what planet they are on (Sturridge could have had at least three goals, Rooney's miss v Italy was astonishing) then we would be looking forward to the second round. The big negative is our defence. Cahill and Jagielka simply are not an international pairing. It is disappointing but I do see positives and a clear improvement over prior tournaments. In 2010 we were dreadful and scrapped out of a straightforward group. Had we played with a more clinical edge would have performed respectably, as it was to be though our defensive frailties and a genius madman did the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 June, 2014 Share Posted 24 June, 2014 We could have won all three games with some luck and better finishing. We were much better than 2010 but then this doesnt suit your agenda as you are trying to prove that Roy Hodgson is an "idiot." We were in a very difficult group and are not alone in going home early as Italy and Spain are also out and are supposed to be much better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 June, 2014 Author Share Posted 24 June, 2014 We could have won all three games with some luck and better finishing. We were much better than 2010 but then this doesnt suit your agenda as you are trying to prove that Roy Hodgson is an "idiot." We were in a very difficult group and are not alone in going home early as Italy and Spain are also out and are supposed to be much better than us. costa rica won our group. says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 24 June, 2014 Share Posted 24 June, 2014 costa rica won our group. says it all Yes, they took their chances and played very well. All credit to them. It was a tough group made even tougher by an outsider showing their worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 Costa Rica fielded a team of sportsmen. England didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 It went as most normal people predicted, we lost to two team better than us and didnt to the team considered worse than us. The tournement came to early for a lot of our young players who are too young and experienced and too late for our older players who are now past their best. We didn't have a single player other than Cahill who did okay and Rooney who was in their prime and he failed to deliver yet again. Now the media have whipped up a frenzy as to the state of our game. We will have a decent qualifying campaign, probably do ok in Euro 2016, reaching the quarters when the likes of Shaw, Barclay, Sturridge etc have got a more experience adn the the media will stir up another frenzy that the game in this country is a mess and we need to go back to grass roots level etc. Of course if we dont get off to a flier in the qualifers then the media will whip up a frenzy demand "Woy" be fired immedaitely and replaced with the current flavour of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 No I don't think so. We don't have to argue as to what players are International or World class - We know what we've got and the standard they are, but we still haven't found out how to use them most effectively in tournaments. I don't really see any notable improvement in shape or system and certainly not in identity or a style / culture. I was initially glad the FA decided to back Roy, but (And this might well be knee jerk) I was so disappointed in his team, tactics and substitutions against Costa Rica, that I'm no longer sure. Compounded by his comments of us having a good game and bossing things, I was left scratching my head. I don't need the manager to be English and if the position became available would almost will us to look past any Englishmen, who seem to be losing pace with their Global counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 We just don't have a single world class player unfortunately. We played ok for periods of all the games but don't have a Neymar/Messi to make the difference in a tight game for us. If only Bale was English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 We just don't have a single world class player unfortunately. We played ok for periods of all the games but don't have a Neymar/Messi to make the difference in a tight game for us. If only Bale was English. That's really not that important. Do Costa Rica have world class players? Do Greece? Chile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2014 Author Share Posted 25 June, 2014 That's really not that important. Do Costa Rica have world class players? Do Greece? Chile? how many costa ricans would get into the England starting 11...or even saints for that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 We were woeful in 2010. I wouldnt say we are light years ahead now but certainly moving in the right direction. Need to sort out a decent defence and improve the finishing. We werent too bad against Italy and played well in patches against Uruguay. I agree with Roy that after the first 10 mins we had hold of the game against CR but again, failed to put our chances away. There is some good young talent coming through but where are the young Michael Owens, John Terrys and Rio Ferdinands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 June, 2014 Share Posted 25 June, 2014 That's really not that important. Do Costa Rica have world class players? Do Greece? Chile? Costa Rica, Chile and Greece are not going to win the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 25 June, 2014 Author Share Posted 25 June, 2014 Costa Rica, Chile and Greece are not going to win the World Cup. world cups are not always about winning. its going out there and having the players and manager do everything possible for success. maybe at times, over achieving, leaving a mark, unearthing a very good new player and coming home knowing we were close/gave our all Italia 90 remains my all time favourite world cup. we did not play brilliant football, we never won it and we lost a semi final on penalties but that made us all believe, made us proud of our players. Unearthed Platt and gazza on the world stage. Our top striker stood up and was counted and the manager found a way to get us through. we did none of that in 2010 and hardly any this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne Malvo Posted 26 June, 2014 Share Posted 26 June, 2014 world cups are not always about winning. Luckily for us England fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 June, 2014 Share Posted 26 June, 2014 world cups are not always about winning. its going out there and having the players and manager do everything possible for success. maybe at times, over achieving, leaving a mark, unearthing a very good new player and coming home knowing we were close/gave our all Italia 90 remains my all time favourite world cup. we did not play brilliant football, we never won it and we lost a semi final on penalties but that made us all believe, made us proud of our players. Unearthed Platt and gazza on the world stage. Our top striker stood up and was counted and the manager found a way to get us through. we did none of that in 2010 and hardly any this time So you are not happy that a new crop of players - Lallana, Barkley, Sterling, Shaw are coming through the ranks? The manager found a way to get us through? So are you saying that it is Hodgson's fault that Rooney and Sturridge missed chances? The dividing line between success and failure is so narrow. How many times did Saints dominate possession only to be hit by a sucker punch last season? Was that Pochettino's falut or down to the players for not taking their chances? You say that you enjoyed Italia 90 because we didnt play brilliantly but we lost on penalties in the semi. So for you it is just about scrapping through as far as we can? Hodgson could have played safe but to fair to him he did go for it and that is why we are out. at 1-1 in both games he could have sat back and protected what he had and we would have scrapped through. I still dont think you would hve been happy because you clearly think Hodgson is an idiot. At the moment we are clearly not good enough at this level. The team is in transition and new players are coming through. Pundits were saying bfore the WC that Hodgson should use this competion to start blooding new players for 2016 - which is what happened. There are no givens in life, especially in football. If Rooney and Sturridge had been more clinical you can imagine the clamour and expectation now but it would be exactly the same management structure and squad. SPain and Italy are also out but I am sure they did all they could in prep to go as far as they could in the competition. We dont have a Gazza or a Platt. The "Golden Generation" have been and gone. Hodgson can only work with what he has. We currently dont have a quality defence. Do you expect Saints to challeneg for honours every year? We had a good run but are now playing with the big boys and the challenges get more and more difficult. You can see from the way that the so called lesser teams have progressed that it is getting harder and harder on the bigger stage. As long as the Premiership employs as many foreign stars as it does we will struggle to produce enough quality to get to another semi finals, let alone win anything. How many competitions have Holland won? They are held up as an example of a nation that plays the game the right way but like us, they struggle to win anything. We need to temper our expectations in line with our ability to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 26 June, 2014 Share Posted 26 June, 2014 Bunch of overpaid w**kers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Force Posted 26 June, 2014 Share Posted 26 June, 2014 I can remember the last few tournaments where we have been "building for the future" none of those previous next best things have really lived up to the billing so I am a little sceptical myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I can remember the last few tournaments where we have been "building for the future" none of those previous next best things have really lived up to the billing so I am a little sceptical myself. Heard someone on TalkSport today say that Sturridge had done well. If he had we will be in the next round. If he doesnt improve at this level you have to wonder where the next prolific striker is going to come from. We are also light in the centre half dept. This is the first competition where we have fallen between two stools. As another poster said earlier, it came a lot too early for some and a little too late for others. Hodgson has a lot of work to do but we need to start by making sure we have our best young players playing in competitions as Stuart Pearce has been banging on about for months. It is no good doing the business in qualifying and then blowing it when it comes down to the serious stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 No, we haven't. The moment the fourth German goal went in we should have come together and sorted ourselves out. The players who had had their chances with the side should have been discarded, meaning most of the "golden generation". We should have totally revamped our coaching and youth development practices like Germany and Spain did before them. The coaching and qualifications should have been made more accessible and affordable to aspiring coaches for starters. Secondly, the Premier League and the FA should have came together for the good of our national game and developed a proper blueprint for the future of English football - not just floating ridiculous B-team ideas and giving out wishy-washy academy statuses. No, we should have asked ourselves - what is English football? What is our style? How can we embrace it and develop it? How can we improve our national team? We should have consented and agreed with all the clubs in the 4 top divisions and identified a style and vision with which to go forward. Instead, we had Trevor Brooking murmuring on for a few more years and important roles for big-hitting dunces like Rio Ferdinand and Danny Mills. That was never going to happen though with the sometimes well intentioned jobs-for-the-boys FA and as for the money-driven Premier League, they couldn't really care less as long as the cash cow can continue to be milked. The man who should be overseeing a revolution in our game is Glenn Hoddle - the perfect man for restructuring this countries footballing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 7 July, 2014 Share Posted 7 July, 2014 No, we haven't. The moment the fourth German goal went in we should have come together and sorted ourselves out. The players who had had their chances with the side should have been discarded, meaning most of the "golden generation". We should have totally revamped our coaching and youth development practices like Germany and Spain did before them. The coaching and qualifications should have been made more accessible and affordable to aspiring coaches for starters. Secondly, the Premier League and the FA should have came together for the good of our national game and developed a proper blueprint for the future of English football - not just floating ridiculous B-team ideas and giving out wishy-washy academy statuses. No, we should have asked ourselves - what is English football? What is our style? How can we embrace it and develop it? How can we improve our national team? We should have consented and agreed with all the clubs in the 4 top divisions and identified a style and vision with which to go forward. Instead, we had Trevor Brooking murmuring on for a few more years and important roles for big-hitting dunces like Rio Ferdinand and Danny Mills. That was never going to happen though with the sometimes well intentioned jobs-for-the-boys FA and as for the money-driven Premier League, they couldn't really care less as long as the cash cow can continue to be milked. The man who should be overseeing a revolution in our game is Glenn Hoddle - the perfect man for restructuring this countries footballing problem. One of the best posts I have ever read. Superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 16 July, 2014 Share Posted 16 July, 2014 One of the best posts I have ever read. Superb. Thank you - as you can imagine, I feel very, very strongly about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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